SN 2001 dash gelcoat rehab question
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Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
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URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35462
Printed Date: November-28-2024 at 9:05am
Topic: SN 2001 dash gelcoat rehab question
Posted By: DCIndustries
Subject: SN 2001 dash gelcoat rehab question
Date Posted: February-26-2015 at 2:25pm
| Searched the forums but couldn't find anything on the subject. Does anyone have any recommendations on cleaning up the black gelcoat typical on the dash. I've already cleaned up the entire boat which looks great, but the dash still looks ashy. I took the windshield and components off, Wet sanded with 800, 1000, 1200 to heavy duty compound, basic compound then wax. Looks better but still a light ash look. |
Replies:
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-26-2015 at 2:43pm
| Dark colors sometimes require more sanding to get through the oxidation. Before following up with lighter grits, next time throw some water on it. What it looks like wet is what it will look like when it's smoothed out after lighter sanding and buffing. If it's still cloudy or you're unhappy with the color, keep sanding with the more aggressive paper. |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: February-26-2015 at 3:54pm
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Mine turned out a little cloudy but I am so used to them looking all chalked out it looks brand new to me. ------------- |
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: February-26-2015 at 6:19pm
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A friend of mine rubbed black shoe polish on his. ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: DCIndustries
Date Posted: February-27-2015 at 9:37am
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Maybe I'll try sanding it again. I distinctly remember though while wet sanding thinking wow, this looks great when I would rinse with fresh water. Even more odd was that it slowly turned more and more chalky over a week after completion. I Was also considering a wrap. 3M 1080 seems to work well on some custom cars I've seen. Maybe a matte black or possibly trying to match the rest of the boat. |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: February-27-2015 at 10:32am
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a wrap would be a cool short term fix for boats that required re gelling. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-27-2015 at 11:47am
 Go back to sanding and buffing!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
DCIndustries wrote:Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-27-2015 at 11:51am
| You may not have sanded enough with the lighter grits, or the compounds/pads may not have allowed you to step up to the final shine in proper increments... The goal of each subsequent step is to remove all of the scratches left by the previous round. Ending with a light compound may not have smoothed it enough at the end (effectively stopping short). Regardless of the cause, it sounds like you didn't properly smooth out the scratches, leading to a dull final finish. Wax is only a protectant and should not add to the shine- if it did, then you weren't smooth enough. Polish is usually the final step before wax. |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: February-27-2015 at 11:53am
 ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-27-2015 at 11:56am
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And I agree with Tim. Tim, Where's that picture of your black dash? It certainly is proof that proper sanding and buffing works. Plus, it's not a back yard cover up wrap!! Darrell, What does a tool and die maker do to a mold or die for a mirror finish??? No scratches correct? Get your loupe out!!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: February-27-2015 at 12:00pm
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Tim's dash is painted Pete ;). ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-27-2015 at 12:02pm
I've seen it in person. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-27-2015 at 12:02pm
Only the bfn is painted, and it came to us that way. Someone will have to dig up the dash pics of my '90 that I buffed out. We're doing the same on our '80 soon as well- I'll be sure to post before/after shots.
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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-27-2015 at 12:10pm
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Yes Tim (and Zach), I was referring to the 90 ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: February-27-2015 at 12:17pm
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I am just giving TRBenj a hard time Pete ha. Here is what mine turned out looking like if you didn't see it. Tried 800/1000 first but it wasn't enough so I went back over with 400/800/1000 buffed with super duty 3m then finesse it and finished with a sealer/polish wax.  ------------- |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-27-2015 at 12:23pm
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Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: February-27-2015 at 12:39pm
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Did you leave the white shift knob on it Timmy? ------------- |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-27-2015 at 12:42pm
| Yep, that was my addition- it's still there. I do have a red medallion knob I could swap on... |
Posted By: DCIndustries
Date Posted: February-27-2015 at 12:43pm
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Might try the process again and take more time. Went over it originally with a palm sander assuming two or three passes would be fine. I'll try finishing off with a polish like TRBenj recommended. pbrainard-Don't own a loupe since I'm in automation tooling (PLC progamming and high volume assembly fixtures)so I'll have to do my best with just my contacts. Was leaning towards the wrap because I'll still end up with the deep gelcoat cracks in the center no matter how much buffing I do. Don't know if you can see them in this picture. I'll try and get better ones this weekend. 
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Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-27-2015 at 12:46pm
| You need to remove the seats, dash and windshield in order to do this properly. |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: February-27-2015 at 12:47pm
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+1 I like the white ball. ------------- |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: February-27-2015 at 1:47pm
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He did its in the 1st post. If you do a wrap you'll never go back to finish it,you might as well just keep sanding ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: DCIndustries
Date Posted: March-02-2015 at 8:40am
One of the things I'm up against. Any recommendations on getting this out without re-gelcoating? 
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Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: March-02-2015 at 9:36am
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Those cracks are telling... I'm guessing the dash saw a lot of sun over the course of its life? Either sitting uncovered or perhaps with a cockpit cover installed? While nothing can be done about the cracks themselves, short of grinding, filling and re-gelling, a proper sanding and buffing will make them less noticeable. I see evidence of not being aggressive enough around the cup holders and mirror post. Those will all have to be removed in order to do this job properly. ------------- |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: March-03-2015 at 10:34am
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My 86 had some cracking like that but not that bad. It was sun beaten in Florida for years with no cover. Sand the crap out of it, you don't really have anything to lose. ------------- |
Posted By: DCIndustries
Date Posted: March-03-2015 at 3:06pm
| Alright, looks like I'll give it another shot. Maybe start with 400 this time and make sure I don't lump it in with other projects so I'll take my time. Thanks everyone |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: March-03-2015 at 5:40pm
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I did 400 because I figured out 800 didn't really touch the oxidization. Mine was in pretty good condition compared to most boats but still hazed a good amount. I did 800-100 then buffed it all and it didn't look that good so I went back 400-800-1000 again. Just be careful around where the gel meets the deck gel. I don't think I actually sanded through that but it was thin enough to show the cream brown below it. It was probably always like that but I never noticed it. ------------- |
Posted By: mmfarmer1
Date Posted: March-05-2015 at 9:14pm
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** Believe it or not, this technique and product description really does work. I have used this on my older Ski Nautique on the black dash and also on my older RV. If you have not had success in what has already been tried, why not give it a shot. You may be pleasantly surprised.** Restoring the finish of dull fiberglass, boats and RV's using Red Max Pro: Materials: -Red Max Pro (Step 3) Low Maintenance Floor Finish* (available only at Lowes, about $16) -Bar Keeper’s Friend (powdered) -TSP (Trisodium Phosphate, powdered) -3M scrubbies (white, fine) - Microfiber rags (white or laundered) -Latex gloves * If you can’t find Red Max Pro #3 at Lowe’s, Home Depot sells the same product under a different name for slightly more money. It is Zep Wet Look Floor Finish (Step 3), about $25. (Both are made by ZEP.) Preparing the surface is the most important part, since anything left on the surface will be sealed under the Red Max Pro acrylic coating, and improper prep can also result in peeling/flaking later. I repeat: The prep-work is the most important part! Do not try to cut corners here. The cleaner the fiberglass is, the better your final results will be. Step 1: Start by washing the hull well as you normally would. Step 2: You now want to remove any and all stains, soiling, oxidation, and chalkiness from the surface. Dip a white 3M scrubbie into water and then liberally sprinkle Bar Keeper’s Friend (BKF) on it. Scrub the surface of the hull, rinsing the scrubbie and re-applying the BKF often. Do small areas at a time, rinsing well with water and a sponge as you go ( I used a "flow-thru" brush attached to a hose to rinse the BKF residue thoroughly). Step 3: Next you want to make sure that there is absolutely no remaining wax on the hull, since any residual wax can cause the Red Max to peel and flake. Mix up a bucket of TSP (1/2 cup) in water (2 gal), and use it to wash the entire hull again. You can use it with a carwash brush, a sponge, a pressure washer…anything you would normally use to wash the boat. Rinse well as you go, then rinse again and let it dry completely. You should now be left with a clean and smooth (although dull) wax-free surface. Congrats, the hard part is done! Step 4: Now comes the easy part. Shake the Red Max Pro (RMP) well, and pour some into a shallow container (a pie pan works well). Fold a microfiber rag to about hand-sized, dip it into the RMP (trust me, use gloves!), and squeeze out the excess. How much/how wet? You want it more than damp, but less than dripping. Now simply wipe down the surface of the RV with the wet microfiber rag. Don’t try to apply a heavy coat or try to “rub it in”; just wet the surface (imagine wiping off a layer of dust with a damp rag). It really doesn’t matter whether you wipe horizontally, vertically, or in circles, and don’t worry about overlaps; RMP is very thin/watery and you are just trying to “moisten” the surface. Work your way all the way around the hull. The thin coat of RMP will dry very quickly; long before you’ve gone all the way around it will be dry and you can immediately start on the next coat. That first coat will likely look really bad; streaky, blotchy, shiny in some places, dull in others…don’t panic. Each additional coat will start to even it out and build up a deep layer of shine. By coat 3, you will be grinning ear to ear. And coat 4 (or 5?) will be the icing on the cake. Not only will your boat shine like it hasn’t shined in years, it will be a deeper color as well*. Even old, faded graphics will have a new lease on life! All for less than $30 total! *Note: This procedure will slightly change/darken the color/shade of your boat. Things (I learned) to keep in mind: -Don’t use new colored microfiber rags until they have been laundered, as the color may bleed. -Don’t try to “over-apply”, or try for a heavy coat, or you will get runs. The thinner, the better. Remember, you’re just trying to “moisten” the surface with each thin coat, nothing more. If you are getting a lot of runs, you’re applying it too heavily. -Be careful around window frames, latches, etc., as the RMP is very watery and will have a tendency to gather and cause runs. RMP dries fast, so keep an eye out for any runs and give them a quick wipe before they start to “set up”. -Some older, deteriorated graphics may “bleed” color onto the rag and surrounding areas. If you notice any bleeding during the BKF or TSP stage (steps 2 and 3), then give a quick wipe of RMP across the graphics prior to step 4, which will seal them up. Then go ahead and apply the RMP to the entire RV (including the now sealed graphics) as per step 4 of the tutorial. -After each coat, go around and open/operate all hatches, catches, etc. The RMP acrylic coating can sort of “glue” them closed. -You can also do the window frames (avoid the glass) and other painted areas; in fact. Came out great! Maintaining the Red Max Pro finish: Now that your boat looks like it has a new, clear coated paint job, you’ll want to maintain that new finish as long as possible, right? Well, good news. With Red Max Pro, that’s easy to do as well. Most commonly used car wash soaps and mild detergents will not harm the Red Max Pro finish, so you can wash your boat as you always have. In fact, you’ll probably find that it comes clean much easier than before, as dirt, bugs, and debris seems to “float” right off quite easily. You do want to avoid anything with Ammonia in it, such as some window cleaners, since ammonia will remove the Red Max Pro (think “floor stripper”). The tire cleaner spray at coin-op carwashes has also been shown to remove RMP. Minor scratches or blemishes in the RMP finish can be touched up easily with a quick coat or two of RMP. Do not apply wax, as wax will interfere with any “touch-up” coats of Red Max Pro later on down the road, causing them to peel or flake. And after 6 months to a year, if the finish starts to lose it’s shine, just give the boat a good wash job, let dry completely, and then give the RV a quick touch-up coat or two of RMP, wiping it on just as you did originally. Disclaimer: This procedure worked wonders on my weathered, oxidized boats, fiberglass and RV's, using the products and steps listed above, and I have no regrets. Hundreds, if not thousands, of others have also used RMP with similar results. A very few reports have surfaced claiming "yellowing" or "peeling", but most, if not all, of those have been attributed to improper surface prep. However, these products are admittedly not designed or marketed for use on the exterior of boats or RVs, and I make no warranty regarding their use or the long-term effects on your boat or RV. Use at your own risk. A few final notes: Some people have voiced concerns about the chemicals used in the prep stages. Bar Keeper’s Friend (BKF) is similar to scouring powder, but much less abrasive. In fact, it is made for cleaning and polishing fiberglass. Used with the fine white 3M scouring pads, it is excellent for removing stains, oxidation, and chalkiness from fiberglass gelcoat without scratching. Trisodium Phosphate (TSP) is indeed a very strong cleaner. While it works very well to remove wax from the RV, it can burn if mixed too strong or left on your skin too long. If you are not comfortable with the TSP, some have reported good luck using Dawn dish soap to remove the wax. Ultimately, neither of these products (BKF, TSP) are required. What is required is to remove all stains, soiling, oxidation, chalkiness, and waxfrom the surface of your boat prior to applying Red Max Pro. Whatever methods you are comfortable with are fine, as long as they accomplish that. If your boat still looks good, and still shines...then use a good quality wax. But if your boat has deteriorated and you are looking for a way to breathe new life into it, RMP is an option for you. Go ahead, Google it. Read up on it. Read about those who have actually used it. Then make your decision. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-05-2015 at 10:17pm
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Mike, Didn't Billy Mays hark the Red Max?  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: mmfarmer1
Date Posted: March-06-2015 at 6:00am
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