Belt tension
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36708
Printed Date: November-17-2024 at 1:43am
Topic: Belt tension
Posted By: Cumby
Subject: Belt tension
Date Posted: July-10-2015 at 12:12am
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I was having a squealing issue with my alternator belt on my GT 40 motor. Tightened it up pretty good last weak and it stopped until tonight when I got a some squeal at start up. I had probably between 1/4 to 1/2 inch play in it. I tightened it up again tonight using a wrench to give me some leverage. Pulled it about as hard as I could with that 12 inches wrench and now you definitely have to push harder on it to check the play. Didn't have a tape measure with me to see if it was less but it's definitely tighter. Just wondering, how do I know if it's too tight? Am I ok as long as I can get 1/4 inch play regardless of how hard I have to push. Also, is there not an adjustment in the other belt? It seems looser than the alternator belt...just didn't know if that's normal? ------------- 99 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Replies:
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-10-2015 at 7:30am
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1/8" is a general rule of thumb. They do have spring loaded guides similar to a liniar tire pressure gauge but I've never used one. The only danger of over tightening is blowing the bearing on the alternator. What condition is the belt? Hows the alignment? After the engine starts is when the battery needs the charge and the alternator is under full load. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Cumby
Date Posted: July-10-2015 at 9:42am
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It is a new belt but I see a lot of black dust under it where it has been wearing. Not sure how to check the alignment, but nothing appeared to be grossly off? When you check these things, is there a certain ant of pressure you try to give to the belt? ------------- 99 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-10-2015 at 7:49pm
Sounds like you have a alignment issue. Use a straight edge for the alignment. All four outside edges of the sheaves will touch the straight endge when the alignment is correct. Press in with your thumb for the 1/8". I'd guess at about 5 lbs. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Cumby wrote:Posted By: Cumby
Date Posted: July-10-2015 at 9:02pm
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[/QUOTE] Sounds like you have a alignment issue. Use a straight edge for the alignment. All four outside edges of the sheaves will touch the straight endge when the alignment is correct. Press in with your thumb for the 1/8". I'd guess at about 5 lbs.[/QUOTE] What makes you think alignment? If that's the case How do I correct? ------------- 99 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-10-2015 at 9:28pm
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The best way to set belt adjustment on these old boats that use a standard V belt is with a Boroughs Tension gauge. You clip them on the belt and then pull tension till you have proper adjustment and tighten the belt. Then remove the gauge. This is the only way to accurately set tension. In some cases the Boroughs gage will not fit and you are left to guess based on prior experience. I had a Boroughs gage for years, Gates, Dayco and Goodyear all sold then to repair shops. I lent mine out to a friend and it never came home. Belts are not all created equal, make sure you are using a quality belt, a quality belt can pull more load without slipping. I would use a premium product made by Goodyear, Gates or Dayco, all three make good premium belts but be careful because all three also sell entry level price products that are about 1/2 the quality and 1/2 the price .but the parts stores will present them to you as Made by Gates to give you confidence.. Look at the sides of your belt, if it is shinny this is called glazing. A glazed belt can't bite the pulley and will slip and squeal. If the belt is new sandpaper the glazing off and re tension and it will be fine. A squealing slipping belt will heat up the pulley and do more damage than a tight belt. These old standard V belts allow 1/8 inch per foot out of alignment so if you are pretty close by an eyeball check you should be good. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-10-2015 at 11:41pm
"A lot" of black dust doesn't come from a few squeals when starting. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-10-2015 at 11:47pm
Plus use one of their cogged belts. Going around a small diameter sheave like the one on an alternator isn't easy. The cogs really grip and you do not need to tension the belt as much. To give you an example of the gripping of a cogged belt, they can't be used in a clutching application. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-11-2015 at 12:42pm
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Goodyear is the only belt manufacturer offering a cogged belt that I know of. Dayco offers a top cog belt but that is to help with heat dissipation. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-11-2015 at 12:58pm
They all do in industrial (A,B,C etc. sections) When ever I can, I always cross over to A belts. Also, I just bought some cogged for my 302 at Napa. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Cumby
Date Posted: July-11-2015 at 8:49pm
"A lot" of black dust doesn't come from a few squeals when starting. [/QUOTE] when I first checked it, it was extremely loose,,,to the the point that I could spin the alternator pulley freely without the belt turning. Couldn't running it for a while that loose cause black dust to build up? ------------- 99 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-11-2015 at 9:22pm
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Glen, It seems you don't believe that the alignment could be off! Just check it! It won't hurt!   ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 1980nautique
Date Posted: July-11-2015 at 9:37pm
| Pete if his belt alignment isn't off should we have him check for rusted pulleys they chew up belts pretty quick too!!!!! |
Posted By: Cumby
Date Posted: July-11-2015 at 9:58pm
No, just hoping it's as simple as tightening it up. Is there an adjustment somewhere to align the pulley if it is out? ------------- 99 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-11-2015 at 10:31pm
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Glen, For some reason belt alignment even from the factory was never the greatest. The most common is with the RWP's. I feel many times it's caused by the position of sheaves on the shafts when they are pressed on. There isn't really an adjustment so it must be done with adding washers or shortening existing spacers. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Cumby
Date Posted: July-11-2015 at 11:56pm
Trying to picture where to put the straight edge. When you say the sheaves are you talking about the edges of the pulley that hold the belt in place? ------------- 99 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-12-2015 at 12:13am
Yes, You want any V belt to go in a straight line. They are not designed to bend sideways. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: July-12-2015 at 2:45am
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My GT-40 alternator belt was squealing a bit at startup, like Pete said that's when the alternator really pulls a load as it charges up the depleted battery. The belt had run less than a full season, I tightened it and it squealed less but still a bit. I broke the glaze on the belt with a wire brush (maybe sandpaper is better, not sure) and squealing was gone and hasn't come back. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: wataugasn84
Date Posted: July-12-2015 at 2:12pm
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Alignment ,dust is a big clue. I even had my belts on completely wrong and ran them that way for a while. Completely meaning wrong belt on water pump and alternator had them switched. ------------- Watuugasn84 |
Posted By: Cumby
Date Posted: July-18-2015 at 8:38pm
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Ok Pete, it does appear that it's not lining up dead on. Just eyeballing it I can't see it but I took a level and laid it on the outer edger of the flat surface of both pulleys and had a little rocking when I tried to get all 4 points to touch. It did squeal a little when I first started it up today but got quiet after that the rest of the day. My question is how do I know if it is too far out of alignment, to the point I need to adjust..:.if I get the black dust building up again? Also, what do I actually align? You mentioned adding/removing washers or spacers. I can't visualize where you would do that and how to actually adjust it. Oh, and there didn't appear to be much, if any rust in the groove on the pulley. Thanks ------------- 99 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-18-2015 at 8:57pm
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Glen, If you can see the misalignment then it does need work. The straight edge should touch all the edges of the sheaves. Lets say the alternator needs to move forward then a washer between it and it's bracket or mounting hole will move it forward. How about some pictures ? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Cumby
Date Posted: July-18-2015 at 10:02pm
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To make sure in understanding, the straight edge is placed on the sides, not on top of the actual grooves where the belt is running correct? It can only be adjusted in it out on the mounting pin? When I looked at it, it seemed like it might be slightly rotated on a transverse axis somehow? Didn't get any pictures. I'll have to see if I can get some next time. ------------- 99 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-18-2015 at 10:48pm
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Glen, The internet is a wonderful resource! https://www.google.com/search?q=v+belt+alignment&rlz=1CASMAE_enUS563US564&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=633&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CCQQsARqFQoTCKbH1eP75cYCFYgNkgodplYH1w" rel="nofollow - pictures of v belt alignment ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Cumby
Date Posted: July-19-2015 at 10:46am
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Great Pictures! In the below one, C. is what Im wondering about. How would washers help with that? 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 ------------- 99 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: jhersey29
Date Posted: July-19-2015 at 12:06pm
| You can cause that type of.misalignment by unevenly prying on the alternator when tightening the.belt Check the bracket mount to the engine and make sure it is tight. Take the belt off and see if you can set the alignment with out the belt and tension pulling it at an angle. If your using a pry bar don't from the back of the alternator. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-19-2015 at 12:25pm
|
Glen, I couldn't get your link to work but feel you are thinking about a twist/angle issue with say the alternator. Jim is correct that there are times when bracket need to be bent. He's also correct that pry bars can get you in trouble when tensioning. I like to use a strap wrench around the alternator. RWP's don't need as much tension. Unlike an alternator and due to the reduction, the RWP has got a large sheave give the belt plenty of wrap for gripping. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Cumby
Date Posted: July-19-2015 at 3:07pm
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I think it seemed slightly angled away from the other pulley, not in the direction the belt would pull it...not sure. I'll have to take a closer look when I get a chance. I'll pull the belt off and see if it will align without tension. Should there not be any play in the mounting bolt when belt is off? Is there a safe place to pry or pull on the alternative when tensioning the belt? I used a long wrench, not a crow bar. ------------- 99 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-19-2015 at 3:39pm
|
Glen, The straight edge will tell where the misalignment is. I suggest not trusting your eyes. Long wrench or crow bar is the same. They apply pressure to spots where you can damage the alternator. I remember seeing an alternator that the housing was cracked from prying to tension the belt. The safest place to apply pressure is on the sheave itself. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Cumby
Date Posted: July-19-2015 at 5:29pm
|
You run it across the sheaves, horizontally somehow? ------------- 99 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-19-2015 at 5:57pm
Very first picture in Pete's link ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Cumby
Date Posted: July-22-2015 at 11:44pm
|
OK, so I went by this evening to look at the pulleys. Took a straight edge again and double checked and they are very level. I must have had an edge of my straight edge hitting something before. They appear to be pretty much dead on. I did notice that the belt seems to be looser now though and I also did notice some rust on several of the pulley shelves, including the alternator. Most of the belt dust appeared to be in the vicinity of the alternator. I did take some pictures this time. Tried to upload them but they're too big. Hopefully this link will work. https://www.flickr.com/photos/104163144@N02/shares/68SjJ1" rel="nofollow - Pics ------------- 99 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: baitkiller
Date Posted: July-23-2015 at 12:03am
|
Are the pulleys just regular Ford stuff like the GM based motors are? Old Chevy pulley sets are pretty cheep, like under 50 bucks cheep. Might be worth a look. Oh, and about 10 years ago at IBEX there was a guy marketing little pieces of sticky back sandpaper cut in a peculiar shape intended to be adhered to a V belt with the intentions of sanding off rough spots or rust while the engine is running. I even brought home a few samples. Never tired it though. New pulleys are cheep and happy boat owners are good business. Then again you could go with a serpentine set up. I love mine, best mod of them all. Junk yard trip. ------------- Jesus was a bare-footer............. |
Posted By: Cumby
Date Posted: July-23-2015 at 10:58am
|
To my knowledge they are the stock pulleys. How difficult is it to replace them? ------------- 99 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: jhersey29
Date Posted: July-23-2015 at 11:06am
| Looks like non OEM belts. The ones from PCM do not have ridges in them. I'm not sure if that makes a different but also maybe go OEM. |
Posted By: Cumby
Date Posted: July-23-2015 at 11:12am
|
I was wondering about the quality of the belt. The PO had it out on so I know nothing about where it came from. Kind of strange, I've tightened 2 times and it seems loose again. Could it be stretching? Anyone think that's an abnormal amount of rust? ------------- 99 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: 1980nautique
Date Posted: July-23-2015 at 11:33am
Two pages ago Pete said to check Belt alignment!!! Two pages ago I asked if the pulleys were rusty?? So if you are looking for help why aren't you listening??? That alternator belt is toasted!! looks like it has worn down 1/8 inch on draw sides. Pulleys look like they need to be sanded and painted or replaced |
Posted By: Cumby
Date Posted: July-23-2015 at 11:54am
|
Sorry man! I made a mistake. First time ever dealing with this stuff and trying to figure it out. I thought this was the place to get help for those that don't know what they're doing? ------------- 99 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: 1980nautique
Date Posted: July-23-2015 at 12:06pm
|
Sorry I came out a little strong on that last post. But when you ask for thoughts on problems you've got to try to follow up. All these interested people are trying to figure your problem through and are sitting on pins and needles for the solution to the repair!!!! The pulleys may be Pleasurecraft specific maybe someone else who has success replacing them could chime in here!!! Nautiqueparts.com and Zach at N3Boatworks have listings for the Chevy and Ford pulleys and are usually very helpful with part numbers. As long as there is enough metal left I have had success Sandblasting or Sanding them and then painting them with High Temp Engine Paint. 656 sprayed on the pulleys after belt removal for lay-up will keep the rust from re-occurring |
Posted By: Cumby
Date Posted: July-23-2015 at 12:22pm
|
I understand Ken, but I'm learning. I do not store my boat at home so I don't have the luxury of walking out and taking my time to look over everything in detail. I must have put the straight edge on part of the pulley that is not flush the first time and I took a flashlight with me this time to inspect for rust, since the boat is stored inside. I apologize for the bad information. I will try to take my time and be more thorough with details before I respond next time...and I do appreciate the help. ------------- 99 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-23-2015 at 8:03pm
I prefer cogged belts whenever possible especially around small diameter sheaves. I just put a set on my 302. OEM's don't use them because they cost more!!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Cumby
Date Posted: July-24-2015 at 11:35am
|
So once I get the rust cleaned up and get ready to paint, do I paint inside the belt groove on the pulleys, assuming it's just going to wear off anyways? ------------- 99 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-24-2015 at 7:26pm
|
Mask off the inside of the sheaves. You don't want anything on the belt faces that may glaze them. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Cumby
Date Posted: August-03-2015 at 3:06pm
|
Update: I cleaned the alt pulley rust off using steel wool, wire brush and sand paper. I also put on a new PCM belt. It is sounding great now and no squealing! Comparing the old and new belt looks like I was barely hanging on. I've also been looking for more black belt dust and haven't seen any. I think this will hold me through the season until I can clean the others up and repaint as needed. ------------- 99 Ski Nautique GT40 |