351 W stops after being shut off wont start
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37500
Printed Date: June-25-2024 at 2:07am
Topic: 351 W stops after being shut off wont start
Posted By: phillipsrj
Subject: 351 W stops after being shut off wont start
Date Posted: October-10-2015 at 8:09pm
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Font=AerialSIZE=3)/SIZE) I have a 1986 Correct Craft Martinique that starts and runs strong. After I shut it down it will not re-start. Even with starting fluid! It does not act like it is flooded. Replaced coil, ignition switch and put in modern water/ fuel filter. Help the Grandkids want to Wakeboard next weekend! Commodore Bob ------------- Commodore Bob. |
Replies:
Posted By: JPASS
Date Posted: October-10-2015 at 8:35pm
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Do you know if you have spark when she won't start? Is the coil getting hot when she won't start? ------------- '92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-10-2015 at 8:35pm
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Bob, It's great that you found CCfan and welcome. The normal request is for pictures. We'd love to see some. A diary entry would be great as well. Make sure it's not flooding. When you shut it down, look down the throat of the carb. (remove the flame arrestor). If you see gas dripping, the carb most likely needs a rebuild. If it is floofing, in the short term, when starting open the throttle almost all the way. This allows more air and will overcome all the gas. Since you say it won't even start with starting fluid, then you are correct that there may be an ignition problem. Check for spark and get back to us. Does it have a point set in the distributor or an EI conversion? BTW, please get rid of the starting fluid. You are ruining your engine. The stuff is a strong solvent and washes the oil off the cylinder walls. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: October-12-2015 at 10:23am
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This thumbscrew is nice to have. It makes the spark arrestor removal check Pete mentions above easily done with no tools: http://www.skidim.com/mobile/BOLT-FLAME-ARRESTER/productinfo/RA009145/" rel="nofollow - http://www.skidim.com/mobile/BOLT-FLAME-ARRESTER/productinfo/RA009145/ |
Posted By: phillipsrj
Date Posted: October-12-2015 at 1:05pm
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Coil is warm. And NEW. Same problem as with the old coil. It has electronic conversion. I will check the spark. But why would it start and run like a champ then after setting for a few minutes refuse to start? Thanks, Commodore Bob ------------- Commodore Bob. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-12-2015 at 1:08pm
I suspect the EI conversion. Put the point set back in. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
phillipsrj wrote:Posted By: phillipsrj
Date Posted: October-12-2015 at 1:13pm
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Thanks for the reply. I am almost positive about the flooding. With the throttle advanced and in the neutral position (gate pulled out) she still cranks. Spark arrestor off and no choke showing. ( I even tried to choke it manually with no results) I thought of a stuck float? Bad fuel pump? Have replaced the ignition switch, coil and put a new style fuel water separator on. It does have Electronic Ignition conversion. Looks like dual pick ups on the Dist. Lobe. It runs perfect, but does not like to idle below 1000 RPM. Timing? 351 PCM Windsor 1986 with 675 hrs. We love the Boat and just a good old Cheesehead in Florida! Commodore Bob ------------- Commodore Bob. |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: October-12-2015 at 1:13pm
| Make sure you check for post shut down drip out of your carb's boosters, just to rule that out. |
Posted By: phillipsrj
Date Posted: October-12-2015 at 1:17pm
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Thanks, It just acts like it is not getting gas? It initially start and runs like a champ but does not like to idle under 1,000 (smooth not like bad valves) When shut off she refuses to start. Strong battery all cells good 12+ volts. Thanks, Commodore Bob ------------- Commodore Bob. |
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: October-12-2015 at 1:25pm
| where are you in FL? |
Posted By: phillipsrj
Date Posted: October-12-2015 at 6:18pm
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In Lake Placid Florida. 10 Miles south of Sebring. ------------- Commodore Bob. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: October-12-2015 at 6:49pm
| Find someone that knows what they are doing unless you do enjoy throwing parts at it. The problem should be easily narrowed in on. |
Posted By: phillipsrj
Date Posted: October-12-2015 at 7:04pm
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If you know of someone that understands older inboards send them my way. I will even bring the boat to them. I'm Retired ------------- Commodore Bob. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-12-2015 at 9:25pm
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Bob, In your posts, you've mentioned work has been done to the engine. Have you been doing it or do you have someone else? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: phillipsrj
Date Posted: October-12-2015 at 9:49pm
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I have done the work myself. We have only owned the boat since June. It already had the electronic ignition installed. I could not get the gas filter apart so I replaced it with a new style spin on (same problem before and after the swap) but now the filter is easy to change. I checked all cells in the battery and all are good. I thought maybe the coil was soft so I replaced it from Nautique Parts. Then the ignition switch was sticky so just to be sure I replaced it. I know enough about Motors to get into trouble. Some suggest the timing is too advanced? Up to 1986 I guess it is 6 deg. b-4 TDC and after 86 10 deg. May try that. Also I can take off the fuel feed to the carb and crank it and see if the fuel pump is working. (It does not smell or act flooded) If I have spark and I have fuel it must be the carb? Float or? Commodore Bob THINKING ALOUD ------------- Commodore Bob. |
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: October-12-2015 at 10:15pm
| check valve |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-12-2015 at 10:17pm
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Bob, Do check for spark. If the timing is off even more than 10 degrees, the engine will run. As HW mentioned, it sounds like you just like throwing parts at it. Don't!! Do some testing first. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: October-12-2015 at 11:56pm
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1st check for spark. If you have that, then pour small amount (like 1/2 oz) of gas down carb, put flame arrestor back & it should start. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: phillipsrj
Date Posted: October-24-2015 at 6:07pm
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[QUOTE=phillipsrj] Font=AerialSIZE=3)/SIZE) I have a 1986 Correct Craft Martinique that starts and runs strong. After I shut it down it will not re-start. Even with starting fluid! It does not act like it is flooded. Replaced coil, ignition switch and put in modern water/ fuel filter. 10/24/15 I finally got her back into the drink! Ran good for a half hour then I brought her back and the same thing happened . She would not re-start after setting about 10 minutes. What I did is pull a plug and check for spark. (No spark) Before that I put 1 OZ of fuel down the carb. No pops or trying to start. I SAY IGNITION! NOW the boat has been converted to EI before I got it> I pulled the dist. cap and the EI was really hot as well as the new coil I had just put in. ( I could not put my finger on it for a count to five ) The distributor cap looked ok, clean and the posts were not funky. SOME SAY VAPOR LOCK BUT THAT WOULD NOT STOP THE SPARK The engine runs at temps between 160 and 180 ..180 when pulling hard. Is the engine running too hot? Normally between 160 and 170 in warm Florida water. What Say Correct Craft Guys & Gals? Commodore Bob ------------- Commodore Bob. |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: October-24-2015 at 6:21pm
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Are you using a ballast resistor? Sounds like the coil is getting too high voltage. Water temp shoudn't fail the spark. I would replace the ignition system you have, as it has been compromised & cannot be relied on. Some will advise you to change back to points, others will steer you to the DUI. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-24-2015 at 6:25pm
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-24-2015 at 6:32pm
Pull the main center wire off the distributor. Put a spark plug in the end keeping the other end in the coil. Groun the plug to the block. Remove the negative wire from the distributor off the coil. Turn on the ignition. Using a jumper wire from a block ground, ground the negative side of the coil briefly. When the ground is removed from the coil, you should get a spark. . If so, it's the junk EI conversion. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: phillipsrj
Date Posted: October-25-2015 at 12:07am
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The EI was done before I purchased the Boat. I will try the test. Are coils supposed to be very hot? I really don't like points but I would rather get a good replacement EI if one is available. Any suggestions? Thank you very much. Commodore Bob ------------- Commodore Bob. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-25-2015 at 12:10am
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Bob, Why don't you like points? Coils can run hot. How hot is yours'getting? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: phillipsrj
Date Posted: October-25-2015 at 12:10am
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I have no Idea what a ballast resistor is or where to look for it? Any pics? Commodore Bob ------------- Commodore Bob. |
Posted By: phillipsrj
Date Posted: October-25-2015 at 12:12am
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The coil is so hot I can only hold my finger on it for about five seconds before getting burned? It's new ------------- Commodore Bob. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-25-2015 at 12:20am
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Bob, How did you select the coil? What voltage is going to the coil? Some are internally resisted dropping the voltage and others need the ballast resistor to drop the volts before the coil. It's a white ceramic piece about 2" long next to the main breaker on the aft end of the engine. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-25-2015 at 12:26am
 ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-25-2015 at 7:32am
Bob, Personally I don'y feel there is a good EI conversion replacement When they go bad, they can strand you out in the middle of the lake. Because of this, there are some who even carry a spare module on board! With a point set, unlike a EI which typically works or doesn't, points going will typically cause some engine stumbling. A quick cleanup of the contact faces will get you home. As mentioned, if a EI is the way someone wants, the way to go is a DUI which is a complete distributor replacement. There are no performance gains by just dropping in a EI module. Points have worked since the turn of the century after the "hit and miss" ignitions. I have gone YEARS without even pulling a cap off a distributor. The only issue you may have with going back to a point set is not having the base plate for them inside your distributor. Did the PO by chance include the plate when he sold it? You haven't mentioned why you don't like points. I'm curious. As HW mentioned, do you have a friend who is more acquainted with engines who could help out? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: October-25-2015 at 4:59pm
| My Brother had a Supra with the 351 and standard marine distributor and points. His distributor needed repair so we bought a new distributor with a GM type HEI coil on cap set up. It has been a couple years but I remember it being less than $130. was a fast drop in solution and improved idle quality, cold start and ran great up to his wide open throttle 4,200, prop limited RPM. The GM HEI electronic ignition systems are simple, cheap and have worked well for many years. Replacement parts are available at every parts store. Points work fine and don't scare me at all, this was just a quick solution to his worn out distributor. |
Posted By: phillipsrj
Date Posted: October-25-2015 at 5:24pm
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The base in the distributor is gone. So the chance of a retro fit would cost me a whole new distributor. Thanks Commodore Bob ------------- Commodore Bob. |
Posted By: phillipsrj
Date Posted: October-25-2015 at 5:26pm
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Yes. Commodore Bob ------------- Commodore Bob. |
Posted By: phillipsrj
Date Posted: October-25-2015 at 7:51pm
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Thanks, Did the new Distributor just drop in or would you suggest professional install. Do you have the part #. The ones I see on the net have a vacuum advance? Commodore Bob ------------- Commodore Bob. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-25-2015 at 8:45pm
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Bob, You must be looking at automotive distributors. Marines are mechanical advance. Installing a distributor old or new involves getting the firing order correct to the position of the distributor and then timing it. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: October-26-2015 at 1:53pm
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The distributor I dropped in had Vacuum advance but we did not hook it up. It has no advantage in a boat because the engines are under load all the time. In a car it really helps but not in a boat.. Before ordering any distributor make sure you check your clearances. The one we installed barely had room. The Ford is pretty tight for space. |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: October-26-2015 at 1:54pm
| I did a google search Ford Distributor HEI Conversion, several popped up. |
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: October-26-2015 at 3:09pm
| In my old boat i converted to pertronix ignitors. worked beautifully. Because it was an offshore boat and we typically traveled over 35miles out i carried 2 spares but never had an issue during the 6 years we ran it. only thing that happened was the coil on starboard engine came apart, end shot out, screw was loose and oil leaked out. That was a pertronix flame thrower coil. after that i pulled coil on other engine and tightened up the screw before it became an issue. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: October-26-2015 at 3:25pm
The number of marine HEI conversions for Ford is a short list, none are in the $150 range that I am aware of. The DUI unit is more than 2x that cost. If the unit has a vacuum advance it is almost undoubtedly not marine, and does not have any of the marine spark arresting features. (=explosion hazard) Bringing this thread full circle, I have not heard any positive feedback as to whether this is a fuel or ignition problem... So chances are good that we're still on a wild goose chase here. Has any spark testing or fuel issues been investigated when the symptoms arise? I did not read anything to indicate any sort of meaningful troubleshooting had occurred. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-26-2015 at 3:54pm
I'm always curious about why? Dwell a problem? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: phillipsrj
Date Posted: October-26-2015 at 8:07pm
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I think I have it narrowed down. It is ignition. The Coil gets very hot and shuts down until it cools off. I do not know what is causing it? I am replacing the ballast resistor today thinking it may be the problem? When it is cool it starts and runs like a champ! Let it set for twenty minutes and she refuses to start. Commodore Bob ------------- Commodore Bob. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: October-26-2015 at 8:19pm
| Did you confirm loss of spark when this happens? I did not see that. |
Posted By: phillipsrj
Date Posted: October-26-2015 at 8:28pm
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Confirmed. I pulled a plug and no spark. Commodore Bob ------------- Commodore Bob. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-26-2015 at 8:39pm
No spark but why? You didn't follow my instructions did you!!!
Bob, you are just throwing parts at it without doing any testing!!  As HW and I suggested, FIND HELP!!!------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: mikestoner93
Date Posted: October-26-2015 at 9:17pm
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Also one thing too add I've seen people forget to even change the plugs and check the gaps. I didn't see it mentioned figured I would add this, hopefully it "sparks" a revelation (lol i know that was terrible)..... ------------- I tried to be awkward once... Just to see what it felt like... |
Posted By: phillipsrj
Date Posted: October-27-2015 at 11:50am
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Now you are telling me that after it starts and runs perfectly that the plug gap is the problem? Commodore Bob ------------- Commodore Bob. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-27-2015 at 1:08pm
Plug gap was simply a suggestion and is a routine check. Bob, as mentioned, you really have done nothing to determine the cause of the problem even though we have tried to suggest troubleshooting. Get the VOM out and check some voltages. Run the tests as suggested. Get some hands on help and don't just consider throwing parts at it. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: dangerwil
Date Posted: October-28-2015 at 2:16am
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I just went through all of this so I thought I would chime in with some info that I learned. Go to the manufacturer of the electronic ignition and read the specs on their module. These units are made for cars and you have to get a couple of things right for them to work on a boat. I had the same problem. After running the boat for a short time the coil would be stupid hot, start to miss and then fail. Burned through 2 coils. This is what fixed my problem. I am running a 302 with converted distro. I have a pertronix 1581 kit on my Prestolite distro so I will be referencing that. Most kits say to remove the ballast resistor to the coil. What a ballast resistor does is drop the standard 12 volts in a car down to about 9 volts that coils and points like to run at. The new style coils for electronic modules all run at 12 volts. No problem in a car where it is easy to find a regulated 12 volt line. On my boat the alternator puts out a solid 14.4 volts when running. This put my amp draw at 9.8 way too high. So I needed a ballast resistor to bring this down to 12 volts. Pertronix says the module can pull no more than 8 amps, so Ohms Law. 14.4/8=1.8 I needed a 1.8 ohm ballast resistor to be within spec. So alright you want to buy a ballast resistor, but they don't sell them by ohms they sell them by car model. I found a 1.4 online. And used a coil with internal restance to get what I needed. Pertronix says the coil and module circuit must have a minimum of 1.5 ohms of resistance to function properly so I used a 1.5 ohm internal resistance oil filled flamethrower coil and all should have been good. Running at about 8 amp draw. It burned up. On my engine the coil is mounted on its side. You can't mount the new oil filled coils on their side they don't like it. As soon as I started talking to the hot rod guys they all told me this. So I bought an epoxy coil with a higher internal resistance, 3 ohms. 12 volts / 3 ohms =4 amps of current that the igniton module draws. I have run the HELL out of this set up and it has been rock solid, If I want a little hotter spark, I could remove the ballast resistor. 14.4 volts / 3 ohms=4.8 amp draw and a hotter spark. Worked for me, YMMV. |
Posted By: phillipsrj
Date Posted: October-28-2015 at 10:13am
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Where did you get the correct coil? Part#. I noticed by pic's that some coils are mounted pointing up and away. I wonder where I can get this kink of mount it makes sense> Commodore Bob ------------- Commodore Bob. |
Posted By: Moody Blue
Date Posted: October-30-2015 at 1:46am
| I have exactly the same problem. Mid 80's 351 W transplant in a '72 Martinique. Holley carb. Starts fine cold with one pump of the throttle and runs great. It also needs to idle a bit high. Initially replaced a non- functioning choke thermostat and replaced solenoid. Still have the no re start issue when hot. |
Posted By: Moody Blue
Date Posted: October-30-2015 at 2:01am
| I have points and my coil is on its side. Epoxy coil can mount on its side? |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: October-30-2015 at 8:16am
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Yes, epoxy doesn't matter how it's mounted.. But then again neither does the OEM oil filled coil, when came sideways on the engine. I think the aftermarket coils are orientation sensitive. Is your coil hot when the problem appears? Could just be a ballast resister issue. I would test the coil when you see the symptom before spending money. You could use an ohmmeter or just manually trigger a spark (described above) to see if coil is the cause. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-30-2015 at 8:40am
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Chris, I think we've lost the commodore. Ether he's on vacation or he's out buying more parts to throw at it without testing! 
Yes, I wonder how many 10's of thousands of OEM coils are out there laying on their sides without ever having a problem!! Richard, Welcome to CCfan. How about some pictures? Follow the steps in this thread to determine if your re starting problem in fuel or ignition related. Don't forget to look down the carb just after shutdown looking for fuel dripping. At this point, I suspect a drip that's flooding the engine. Next time out, you can also try advancing the throttle almost al the way. This will allow more air into the engine and overcomes the flooding condition caused by the drip and in most cases confirm a fuel problem. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: phillipsrj
Date Posted: October-30-2015 at 12:22pm
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The coil works when it is cold but when it is hot it does not. I found that one of the poles of the ballast resistor was broken ( when installed it was turned too far and broke the connection to the resistor, not very noticeable unless you removed it) and I am in the process of replacing it. This could be the Hot coil problem? Thanks much for all the help! Commodore Bob ------------- Commodore Bob. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: October-30-2015 at 12:51pm
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Why are you thanking us for the help you've refused to accept? some people you just can't reach |
Posted By: phillipsrj
Date Posted: October-30-2015 at 1:39pm
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Because I was told about the Ballast resistor that I would have never known about. The OLM load of the coil that I had was too high 6 instead of 3 and the oil filled coil instead of an epoxy filled coil. Thank you all Commodore Bob ------------- Commodore Bob. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-30-2015 at 1:50pm
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Bob, This is the first time we've heard that you have a VOM and have done some testing. I'm glad to hear that. Fill us in after you install the new ballast resistor. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Moody Blue
Date Posted: October-31-2015 at 2:05am
| Thank you for the welcome. And the thoughts. Diagnostic time is slim with the weather turning. She is close to going into winter storage. I've been attempting to post pics. Will get some up soon. |
Posted By: phillipsrj
Date Posted: October-31-2015 at 1:25pm
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I have the exact same problem. I have electronic ignition conversion that was done before I purchased the boat. I am replacing the ballast resistor that I think was defective because one of the poles looked cracked off and a new epoxy coil from Jegs that is 12V 3 ohm to see if that will fix the problem before I take it to the Doctor> Commodore Bob ------------- Commodore Bob. |
Posted By: Moody Blue
Date Posted: November-05-2015 at 12:34am
  Here are a couple of pics of my '72 Martinique. She's new to me this summer and I haven't had time to get to know her. Two days ago, with my hot start issue, I immediately raised the engine cover and removed the flame arrester for cooling. In 5 minutes, 10 tops, she fired with one throttle pump on the Holley. Now thinking that heat needs to be removed from the engine compartment. Realized that the blower should be doing this but found no intake hose connected to the blower. Put one on today and took it straight to the engine compartment. Unfortunately she is out of the water now but I'm anxious to see if this helps/ cures the no hot start. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-05-2015 at 6:44am
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Richard, Thanks for the pictures. The boat looks great and I certainly hope you get many years of enjoyment out of it. Since you stated the boat is new to you, I assume the PO did the work on it? Was a stringer replacement needed? If not, how is their condition? Fill us in. If you haven't already, submit some text and pictures for the diary section. Heat is not a factor in your no start problem. On most boats, ventilation blowers weren't even used until around the late 60's. Their intent is to vent any possible fuel vapor to prevent a potential explosion. Keep it mind there are plenty of engines out there that start under hotter conditions. A good example would be one out in the hot sun in the desert. Did you have a chance to go through the suggested.troubleshooting before you laid it up for the winter? Please do before guessing and just throwing parts at it. BTW, also keep in mind you should not pull anything from the aft lifting ring ESPECIALLY tubes!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Moody Blue
Date Posted: November-05-2015 at 8:23am
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I was not able to water test the Martinique when I purchased it. There were a couple of things that I missed but overall, I think it's a good boat. Stringer are original and I'm not sure of their condition. This boat originally had a Holman Moody 302. It reportedly froze and cracked. PO purchased the boat and installed a mid 80's rebuilt 351W. Also did interior. I do realize that heat should not affect a restart but the boat will fire up when it has a chance to cool. Figured it couldn't hurt to actively pull the heat and enjoy the boat while I diagnose. I have an old school boat mechanic who I've spoken with quite a bit who has made made many suggestions. I'll probably get it to him in the spring first thing. As for pulling from the lift ring, I cringe when I hear people say they do that. I have owned an 18' Chris Craft Cavalier for 13 years (zero issues!) and retro fitted a steel plate across stringers to accept a heavy duty tripod pylon (no tubes on this pylon). The Martinique came with a heavy solid steel finger eye pole but the diameter is too big for the receiver. The plate across the stringers is gone. The pole is beautiful and I have an install plan! I love the stories in Diaries. I'll add to. Again, thanks for the welcome. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-05-2015 at 8:59am
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Richard, Do you know the 351 engine rotation that was installed? Hopefully it's a RR. If you're not sure, a good indicator is looking at the prop. A RR should turn clockwise for the forward direction looking at it from the aft. In the maintenance section, there's a FAQ thread. If you haven't already, take a look at it since there are links to fantastic threads for almost anything you need to know. If not, you know there are plenty of members who can answer questions. Do take a look at checking stringers as well as alignment. In 72, I'm pretty sure (Tim will know for sure) that the pylon had a square base welded to it for bolting to the sole and then the bottom fit into a cup that is glassed into the hull at the keel. Your hull may already have the cup. Take a look. On the underside of the sole, there should be wood spanning the main stringers for reinforcement. Do you know what the PO did with the H/M? Being such an original type, I was disappointed to hear of the repower.  However, he did put a good engine back in.------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: November-05-2015 at 9:44am
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Nice looking boat, most likely culprit to your no start would be a dripping carb flooding out the engine, after float bowl is empty and the gas evaporates it starts again. Of course it could be electrical as well, best way to check is to have a timing light with you to check for spark next time y0u get the no start condition. If it shows a spark then investigate the fuel system if it has no spark then its time to look at the ignition system. Until then just wait it out... removing the heat from the box through a fresh air blower is not a fix for anything, if your cooling system is working correctly you can remove more heat from that engine with the unlimited amount of cool water available than you could ever remove by blowing cold air across the outside of the motor. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: Moody Blue
Date Posted: November-05-2015 at 9:45am
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It is a right rotation with a 4 blade prop. I have no idea what became of the Holman Moody 302. From photos of other Correct Craft pylons, I see the spanning plate between stringers. Mine has been cut out. Looks to have been wood with steel. My pylon diameter and shape does not match the receiver glassed into the hull. I'm thinking of a steel plate with a center pylon hole to span stringers and a steel tube cuff to slip over the receiver and pin through the securing hole. Insert the pylon through the stringer plate, into the cuff and secure it with a pin. I'll see what I can determine on stringer condition. |
Posted By: Moody Blue
Date Posted: November-05-2015 at 9:49am
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Hi Joe I know you are absolutely right. Wish it were the beginning of the season. I'm anxiously awaiting spring! Meanwhile, I'm staying happy taking care of cosmetic and other minor issues. |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: November-05-2015 at 9:50am
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Might want to use stainless steel. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-05-2015 at 9:54am
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Richard, How about posting a picture of the pylon you have. Personally, to aid rigidity, I would avoid an adapter which adds another connection point unless this cuff is firmly attached to the pylon. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Moody Blue
Date Posted: November-05-2015 at 9:59am
| True happiness will be resolving the hot start issue!! |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: November-05-2015 at 10:01am
I agree with Joe. 5-10 minutes will not make a difference in how much the engine cools. Next time remove the flame arrestor even before you shut it down and look down the throat of the carb immediately thereafter. Gas dripping will cause your problem or there is another electrical issue. Component heat (like a hot coil) could be a factor but ambient heat is not your issue. We need more info after you get a chance to investigate a little more. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-05-2015 at 11:24am
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Agree with joe and Eddie. You're doing more harm than good by pumping the throttle if the carb is drippy. That is by far the most common culprit to the "poor hot starting" issue... Temp actually does not play a role in that case. Do as joe says and do some testing. Post a pic of the pylon. There would not have been any metal reinforcement in the floor or stringers prior to the aluminum engine cradles that started on some models in 1980. The pylons with the square through bolted flange didn't start until '76. Prior to that, they relied on the cup in the hull and the pass through the floor (or wood member just below it). It would help to see what you're working with before you devise a plan. |
Posted By: Moody Blue
Date Posted: November-05-2015 at 11:34pm
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Thanks everyone. Truly appreciate your knowledge and input. Can't do much with her until spring. Close look at carb will be first thing. I've been trying to post more pics but it seems to be hit or miss. Feel like I was lucky to get the earlier ones posted. |
Posted By: Moody Blue
Date Posted: November-06-2015 at 9:32am
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/Users/jannettehogshire/Desktop/IMG_2118.JPG/Users/jannettehogshire/Desktop/IMG_2119.JPG This is the pylon. Beautiful piece but not what i've seen as factory equipment and not sized to fit my factory receiver. OD is similar to OD of receiver in hull. I"m thinking that the attached bracket shown in pic will come off and not be used. Pole and new stainless stringer plate would be welded to become one unit. Cuff welded to bottom of pylon to fit down over receiver and pin secure. |
Posted By: Moody Blue
Date Posted: November-06-2015 at 9:34am
| oops. wrong way to post pics! |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-06-2015 at 9:55am
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Richard, Use the "post reply" and not the "quick reply". Click on the icon of the tree with the up arrow. A box will come up allowing you to select the picture off your computer. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: phillipsrj
Date Posted: November-06-2015 at 2:37pm
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It seemed that when I was having the problems (which I have not fully solved yet) That the Blower was not reducing the heat but taking the extra output from the alternator and thus lowering the volts to the ignition system? Commodore Bob ------------- Commodore Bob. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-06-2015 at 3:17pm
You haven't done the recommended testing!!
Bob, How about starting over and reading this complete thread (from the top of page #1)? It seems that you are not following any of our suggestions. In THIS thread:
------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Moody Blue
Date Posted: November-07-2015 at 8:28am
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Hi Peter Yes, I use the "post reply" button and the tree with arrow icon. I choose my photo, hit OK to allow it to upload but then get the message "You have already selected a file with this name. Please select another file or rename". At that point, I'm not sure how to do that. I've been able to get the photos in my file manager. I've been using my iPad and was able to get the two pics of the boat posted. Tried my main computer also. Everything flows until I get the roadblock message. I'll keep at it. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-07-2015 at 8:34am
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Richard, I've run into the same problem when a picture is already in my file manage. I don't know if it's the correct way to handle it but I've just gone into my computer and changed to name of the picture. I'm sure there's another way and someone I'm sure will come along and give some advice. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: November-07-2015 at 12:38pm
| Are you able to get to the photos on your file manager? If so, I've got an easy fix. |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: November-07-2015 at 12:48pm
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1.) Towards the upper left, click on "Member Control Panel" with the little picture of the gear. 2.) When you get to that screen, click on File manager. It will take a few seconds to switch to that tab 3.) Find the photo you want, highlight and do a single click. You'll then get a preview. And a link with the file name. This link is the moneymaker. 4.) In my case, I've got one called Carb_005.jpg. Now, knowing this alone isn't helpful, but if I click on the link http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/uploads/6518/Carb_005.JPG" rel="nofollow - Carb_005.JPG I'll go to a brand new page with the full address in the address bar: http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/uploads/6518/Carb_005.JPG 5.) Copy this address, now paste it in between these tags: {img}http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/uploads/6518/Carb_005.JPG{/img} 6.) Now, I used squiggle brackets for demonstration purposes. Those won't work. Just changes all your { to [ and your } to ] and you should have the picture directly posted. 7.) Por ejemplo: 
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Posted By: phillipsrj
Date Posted: November-07-2015 at 2:10pm
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OK C R OW for dinner the boat started and ran with the 12v 3olm coil with resistor but would not go over 3200 rpm's. Back to the dock I pulled off the spark arrestor and saw fuel dripping from the primary on the starboard side of the carb. Now What.? Rebuild the carb? I put the old coil back on but did not have time to test before the rains came. Commodore Bob PS: I have to trailer my boat 22 miles to the lake. ------------- Commodore Bob. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-07-2015 at 2:34pm
------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: phillipsrj
Date Posted: November-07-2015 at 3:24pm
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I am thinking that I need to find a re-build kit. I see on a forum that the carb # is by the Choke? Commodore Bob ------------- Commodore Bob. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-07-2015 at 4:40pm
Just in case you can't find the banner at the top of the page - http://www.n3boatworks.com/part-shop/" rel="nofollow - site sponsor ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: lewy2001
Date Posted: November-07-2015 at 6:44pm
Yes pumping the throttle is just adding to the "flooded" condition (i.e. excess fuel in the inlet manifold and combustion chamber). Every time you pump the throttle the accelerator pump squirts more fuel into the inlet manifold. Before fuel injected cars we learnt to remedy the "flooded" condition by holding the foot to the floor (throttle plate wide open) while cranking the engine to clear. ------------- If you're going through hell, keep going http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2999" rel="nofollow - 89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-07-2015 at 7:16pm
And the reason I told Bob this in the 3rd post!!!!
------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Moody Blue
Date Posted: November-07-2015 at 7:37pm
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Posted By: Moody Blue
Date Posted: November-07-2015 at 7:42pm
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Brian, thank you! That worked. This is the pylon. The OD iOS greater than the ID of the receiver in the hull. Utilizing the receiver with a joining cuff and a stainless plate spanning stringers should be rock solid. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-07-2015 at 8:25pm
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Richard, I don't feel that pylon you have will work for your boat. The CC's pylons are a larger diameter giving it the strength needed to be supported at the keel and then at the sole. Note on your pylon there's a support which originally would have been fastened to a deck bulkhead running port to starboard giving it the needed support close to the ring and finger. Take a look at the diary's and brochures to see the larger diameter CC used. Your's will bend and could be a big problem. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Moody Blue
Date Posted: November-08-2015 at 1:09am
| Gotcha. I wasn't sure where that support bracket was originally. I can see that pole bending too. It seems substantial but I know what kind of pull a skier puts on it, not to mention a tube. We tubed solely behind wave runners. I'm thankful for your input because I was full steam ahead on the project. Are CC poles tough to come by? |
Posted By: 74Wind
Date Posted: November-08-2015 at 1:41am
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Oh boy. Wait for it..... ------------- 1974 Southwind 18 1975 Century Mark II |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-08-2015 at 9:29am
Richard, You really should have not mentioned that 4 letter word!! You haven't been spending enough time reading here on the site!!Pylons do come up for sale occasionally. Your 72 Martinique should take a regular height pylon but do check. I'm sure someone here will comment. Fabricating one may be a better choice and has been done. Then the only problem would be finding the ring and finger which can be a challenge. Please, if you do install the pylon, use discretion as to what's hooked up to it!!  NO TUBES.http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37048&KW=pylon+height&PID=479328&title=1970-ski-pylon-weight#479328" rel="nofollow - Here's just one thread on pylons. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Moody Blue
Date Posted: November-08-2015 at 10:55am
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Oooo, and I thought "wakeboard" was a bad word! The retro fit pylon on my '60 Cavalier says "No T....! I've respected that. All of our t..... was done behind wave runners. Dont have those anymore. I'll break it to the family. On to the important issue- skiing. Could my entire pylon be sleeved? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-08-2015 at 11:19am
%3ca%20href=" rel="nofollow - Get the kids out on the water ]Have your family watch this especially the kids[/URL] By the time you make a sleeve to fit your pylon, you might as well make a new one to match what CC made. However, you could use the top ring and finger section. Making a new one will also give you a proper connection at the keel socket. Where are those pictures of the boat? Now that you've mastered posting pictures, you don't have any excuses!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-08-2015 at 11:23am
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Richard, I screwed up the above link. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14181&KW=get+the+kids&PID=163962&title=get-the-kids-out-on-the-water#163962" rel="nofollow - Here's "get the kids out on the water" ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Moody Blue
Date Posted: November-08-2015 at 12:19pm
This is the old girl...  And her younger attractive sister.   Need to remove improperly placed stripes and correct. 
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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-09-2015 at 6:14pm
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Richard, Nice looking Chris Cavalier.  Does it have the 283 in it? You don't see many of them around. I feel Chris was actually going after CC's market with a less expensive ply hull. I don't feel it went over very well since the typical Chris buyer wanted the classic planked hull. Also, like CC's, they were pretty much "throw away" boats since maintenance (paint & brightwork) on even a ply boat exceeded the market values. BTW, if the time ever comes, a great up grade to the 283 is to use a 350 block for a rebuild. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Moody Blue
Date Posted: November-09-2015 at 7:09pm
| Yes Peter, it does have the 283. PO had installed charcoal fleck indoor/outdoor carpet on sidewalks and floor. While not the original white vinyl, it' really looks great with the wood and white w/black piping upholstery (also not the correct red & white but looks great). PO also added two square vents (complete with holes) to the transom deck. I've replaced them with orig. clamshell type. 4 vents look better than 2! Other than that, she is pretty straight and original. Her name is Water Log, but of course everyone calls her Woody. |
Posted By: Moody Blue
Date Posted: November-09-2015 at 7:11pm
| Spell check got me. Side walls, not sidewalks. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-09-2015 at 7:23pm
So that's why you didn't post a picture of the interior!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |