Source for dizzy gear?
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37954
Printed Date: November-30-2024 at 11:27am
Topic: Source for dizzy gear?
Posted By: GMacLaren
Subject: Source for dizzy gear?
Date Posted: January-10-2016 at 9:52pm
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I’m looking for a “reverse rotation” drive gear for a new Pertronix distributer for my (now) 1974 Ford 302 V-8. Engine is not original to the boat. It is a Ford "302" producing 220 hp. or more (“351” heads.) It is a "Right Hand" (reverse) turning engine (viewed from rear.) It is a Ford "small block" marinized with components from an engine originally built by Crusader (Parent company was Thermo Electron Marine Engines -- Thermo Electron sold its Crusader line to Pleasurecraft.) The cam is new, right-hand rotation. We really don't know who built the “original” engine -- possibly someone other than Crusader (now Pleasurecraft Marine or "PCM”.) I’ve lost the paperwork on my purchase of the distributor. :-) I’ve disposed of the “original” distributor. : -( I bought this one from someone other than Pertronix and was told it was for a “reverse” engine. It is not. Pertronix does not make the gear I need. The fellow on their “tech line” could not give me a source for the gear. Any ideas as to where I can find one?  ------------- -=Grant MacLaren=- Retired Expert http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier" rel="nofollow - http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier |
Replies:
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: January-10-2016 at 10:09pm
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e-bay 2 months ago.make a .500 bore and a .464 bore. ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: GMacLaren
Date Posted: January-10-2016 at 10:26pm
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I don't see one on ebay currently. ------------- -=Grant MacLaren=- Retired Expert http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier" rel="nofollow - http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier |
Posted By: JDD33
Date Posted: January-10-2016 at 11:21pm
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There are a few listings on summit that might work........ But as you know the fords are hard to find reverse parts for. You might end up buying a RR dizzy just for the gear  Probably regretting getting rid of that old dizzy now... ------------- Old school goin back to school! |
Posted By: GMacLaren
Date Posted: January-11-2016 at 12:00am
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I've talked to Summit. Nothing there. Yes, I regret dumping the old one. Local "old-timer" thinks there may be a local source. Should know soon. ------------- -=Grant MacLaren=- Retired Expert http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier" rel="nofollow - http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier |
Posted By: JDD33
Date Posted: January-11-2016 at 12:39am
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Good! I hope it works out for you! My first CC was a 1970 Mustang with a HM. The previous owner threw a lot of automotive parts at it including the distributor. I replaced it with a nice used mallory unit but the gear was wrong and of course didn't slide right into place! After a whole lot of panic, research and phone calls I was able to replace the gear with the one from my old dizzy! So needless to say I know EXACTLY where your at right now! It'll work out, nice engine and boat by the way! ------------- Old school goin back to school! |
Posted By: GMacLaren
Date Posted: January-11-2016 at 1:02am
Thanks, we'll solve it. Have oil in it and all the wires in harness, except for dizzy. Zero here this A.M., so waiting for a break to launch & test run anyway. We've run the oil pump, as you can see . . .  ------------- -=Grant MacLaren=- Retired Expert http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier" rel="nofollow - http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier |
JDD33 wrote:Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: January-11-2016 at 1:05am
| Is that Ralph Meloon? |
Posted By: GMacLaren
Date Posted: January-11-2016 at 1:06am
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No, Bud Eiler. ------------- -=Grant MacLaren=- Retired Expert http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier" rel="nofollow - http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: January-11-2016 at 6:49am
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ebasic shows 2 gears, e-bay has 3, Summit pt #MAA-28714A just need to check their diameter Worst case scenario if they are .500 is to either turn the shaft down or bush the gear. Neither is a tough lathe job Good luck ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-11-2016 at 7:13am
Great option and I agree very basic on the lathe. The only challenge may be positioning the new gear vertically on the shaft. Measure the original but, even if off slightly it won't matter with straight cut gears. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: January-11-2016 at 7:20am
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If new gear is drilled then its a no-brainer. Otherwise do like Pete said. ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-11-2016 at 7:24am
Duane, If the new gear requires machining (or the shaft), then chances are high that the cross drilled holes in the gear and shaft aren't in the correct place. Grant, Take a few measurements!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: January-11-2016 at 9:56am
| DUI offers RR gears for their dizzys. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: January-11-2016 at 10:24am
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Just wondering how accurate your calipers are. The typical early Ford 302 distributor had a shaft diameter of 0.467 inches where the gear mounts and people like Mallory, Prestolite etc. made their shafts the same diameter although the hole location for the pin varied. Maybe Pertronix decided to be a little different, or your measurement needs double checking. Do a search for Sierra 18-26823. It's a 302 RR gear with a .467 inch inner diameter. It's a replacement for a Mallory gear. Ebasic has that one listed. Whatever you do, you need a cast iron gear or you'll have issues with wear of the camshaft or gear. KenO |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-11-2016 at 10:43am
Some Joe Gibbs break in grease and then an engine oil with a good ZDDP content doesn't hurt ether! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: GMacLaren
Date Posted: January-11-2016 at 12:14pm
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Thanks for all responses, opinions & advice. The measurement I posted of lower shaft is WRONG! Correct diameter is .449 Yes, we will grease before final assembly. (Already done that once.) And the ZDDP has been added.  ------------- -=Grant MacLaren=- Retired Expert http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier" rel="nofollow - http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: January-11-2016 at 12:51pm
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Do yourself a favor and take the gear off the shaft and measure the shaft right where the gear sits, it's usually a little bigger like about .015".or so. That would add up to the .464" you got when you measured above the gear, but you gotta take it off anyways, so measure right where it goes. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: January-11-2016 at 1:56pm
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Grant do a search for the 2015 pertronix catalog and scroll down to page 40 "Billet distributor Dimensions" and you'll see the ID listed for their drive gear on their 302. distributor It's .467 inches, wrong direction of course since you say they don'r sell a RR, but get the Sierra gear I mentioned a couple posts ago (18-26823) and the worst you would have to do is drill a new hole for the pin if it's at a different height.. KenO |
Posted By: GMacLaren
Date Posted: January-15-2016 at 7:50pm
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Thanks for help so far. A good friend died recently. (You'll see more on my website, http://www.grantmaclaren.com/howard" rel="nofollow - grantmaclaren.com / Howard, RIP ) I'm still looking for the dizzy gear. Page 40 of '15 Pertronix catalog shows gear for Chevy only. My engine builder tells me Mallory 28034A is the one I need, but many sources tell me it's not available from them (even tho it shows up in their many catalogs.) I'm beginning to think I might end up buying some other brand dizzy.  AND  AND  ------------- -=Grant MacLaren=- Retired Expert http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier" rel="nofollow - http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier |
Posted By: GMacLaren
Date Posted: January-15-2016 at 7:56pm
Forgot to mention, I did look at Sierra gear. $90? That would go a long way towards another distributor: ------------- -=Grant MacLaren=- Retired Expert http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier" rel="nofollow - http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier |
Posted By: GMacLaren
Date Posted: January-15-2016 at 7:58pm
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And KENO, I did observe the "shoulder" on the shaft at gear bottom. ------------- -=Grant MacLaren=- Retired Expert http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier" rel="nofollow - http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: January-15-2016 at 8:00pm
| why is your cam going opposite your crank |
Posted By: GMacLaren
Date Posted: January-15-2016 at 8:01pm
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It's gear driven, not chain. ------------- -=Grant MacLaren=- Retired Expert http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier" rel="nofollow - http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: January-15-2016 at 8:04pm
| So you have a LH cam but need a RH dist gear? Is the cam gear RH? I am hella confused |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: January-15-2016 at 8:11pm
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O"riley Auto Mallory Ignition - Distributor Drive Gear Line: MAL | Part # 28034A $57.99 Each E-bay NIB OMC 5.0L 5.8L FORD 351W Ignition Distributor Mallory 28714A Gear Reverse Rot Distributor Gear for Mallory Ford 351 W RH Rotation 28714A $48.95 Ebasic powerDistributor Gear for Mallory Ford 351 W RH Rotation 28714A $49.99 ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: GMacLaren
Date Posted: January-15-2016 at 8:15pm
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My sketch is a view from the rear of the engine, therefore "reverse" or "right-hand" rotation. ------------- -=Grant MacLaren=- Retired Expert http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier" rel="nofollow - http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: January-15-2016 at 8:20pm
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Like Pete said "measure from end of shaft to bottom of gear before removing it" close counts does not need to be perfect Took me all of 10 minutes to change mine., ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: GMacLaren
Date Posted: January-15-2016 at 8:30pm
Duane, do you think this is it? ------------- -=Grant MacLaren=- Retired Expert http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier" rel="nofollow - http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-15-2016 at 9:00pm
| WTF |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: January-15-2016 at 9:13pm
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I'll agree with Tim..................................... WTF You're the ................................... that threw away the old distributor which more than likely had the gear you need. (fill in the blank yourself) You have a Sierra part number, but it's too expensive. Don't use Duane's number, it'll be a really, really sloppy fit |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: January-15-2016 at 9:57pm
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OOPS the 28714a was the wrong # on e-bay. Pace Performance and O"Riley have the gear below. I copied and pasted from their ad the following: Mallory Distributor Drive Gear 28034A Mallory Mallory - Mallory Distributor Drive Gear 28034A Click on image to zoom SKU: 28034A LH Rotation - Shaft Outside/Gear Inside Dia. .467 in. - For Reverse Rotation Engine - Alloy Steel ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: January-15-2016 at 10:11pm
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Grant I'm still on the WTF train of thought I looked at your website and your engine originally had a timing chain. Look at engine page 9 on YOUR website and you'll clearly see the chain right near the cam gear in the pile of parts along with your RR distributor that's long gone. Your comments on distributor clockwise rotation make no sense for a small block Ford distributor. Given your confusion/misinformation you need to spit out some accurate info if you're going to get this right. Anything posted today is pretty confusing |
Posted By: GMacLaren
Date Posted: January-15-2016 at 10:42pm
You are right - - I AM  I was told the cam was directly gear-driven. Glad I made those photos and glad you looked at them. Now I am more confused than ever and can't think of how this distributor can be made to function on this engine. Sorry to have caused confusion. ------------- -=Grant MacLaren=- Retired Expert http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier" rel="nofollow - http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-15-2016 at 11:04pm
Grant, It looks like you've already spent plenty so what's another $80 for a gear? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: January-15-2016 at 11:05pm
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No problem, nobody's perfect, I know I'm not. I usually learn something from my mistakes Even if a gear drive setup was newly put in the cam will still rotate the same direction as the crankshaft because of the idler gears. Being curious and stubborn, how about a picture of this distributor from the top showing the flyweights. How about serial numbers or whatever for the Pertronix distributor. |
Posted By: GMacLaren
Date Posted: January-15-2016 at 11:22pm
Per request: ------------- -=Grant MacLaren=- Retired Expert http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier" rel="nofollow - http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier |
Posted By: GMacLaren
Date Posted: January-15-2016 at 11:28pm
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I thought it should rotate counter-clockwise, but others showed me how the springs behaved when the shaft was rotated while the top mechanism is held tight. They had me convinced the dizzy should rotate clockwise.(To me, the weights should swing from the pivots at the LEADING edge of the weights. ------------- -=Grant MacLaren=- Retired Expert http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier" rel="nofollow - http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: January-15-2016 at 11:32pm
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Hi Grant It looks to me like the flyweights get thrown outwards when the distributor is rotating counterclockwise. That would be right for a Ford. I think you just need a gear. |
Posted By: GMacLaren
Date Posted: January-15-2016 at 11:33pm
It's not the money fr the gear. It's that I'm not sure it will work, and it seems I might be buying another dizzy altogether. ------------- -=Grant MacLaren=- Retired Expert http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier" rel="nofollow - http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier |
Posted By: GMacLaren
Date Posted: January-15-2016 at 11:35pm
That's what I thought, but was convinced otherwise. ------------- -=Grant MacLaren=- Retired Expert http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier" rel="nofollow - http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier |
Posted By: GMacLaren
Date Posted: January-16-2016 at 12:00am
Another sketch: ------------- -=Grant MacLaren=- Retired Expert http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier" rel="nofollow - http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier |
Posted By: JPASS
Date Posted: January-16-2016 at 10:08am
Am I missing something here? To me it appears the dizzy should turn CW in order to push the heads of weights outwards. I know it's automotive and a GM, but in this vid it shows a CW dizzy rotation swinging the weights, not CCW. Go to the 6:00 minute mark to see what I'm referring to: ------------- '92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: January-16-2016 at 10:11am
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Hi Grant Go to ebasicpower.com and type in SIE 18-26823 You might be surprised at the price KenO |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: January-16-2016 at 10:21am
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As for as the weights,you could stick the shaft in a 1/2 inch reversible drill and see which way makes the weights get flung outwards Then you'll know for sure |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-16-2016 at 10:39am
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Don't get your hopes up with ebasicpower until you have the part in your hands. Something's they show are dropped shipped. I found that out with PCM cooling parts ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-16-2016 at 10:49am
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Doughtful there is a distributor that turns opposite,there would then be a need for a reverse rotation oil pump then ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: January-16-2016 at 11:25am
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj8w6f4wa7KAhUBdj4KHVlLCYoQtwIIHDAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D1_0p6OCg8VQ&usg=AFQjCNFogh5zgRhMvfxbMJdBJffRcP4gJw Don't have a clue if the link I tried to post will actually work, I'm sure somebody will make it work though. (J Pass is good at that) If not do a google search for "Pertronix youtube Episode 34 part 1" and at about the 10 minute mark and several times after that you'll see good shots of a Pertronix advance mechanism in a 302 Ford distributor. Looks just like Grant's setup Don't forget, no matter the engine rotation, the distributor always turns CCW in these SBF's |
Posted By: GMacLaren
Date Posted: January-16-2016 at 11:09pm
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Thanks again for all the help. (I'll post this as soon as CCF is functioning again. It's not working at all for me as I write this.) OF COURSE the dizzy rotates Counter Clockwise -- the same way I spun the oil pump to "prime" the oil system. duh! I looked at the youtube showing the Pertronix Flame Thrower III, but did not see any rotation. No matter, just my comment saying I did view it. Also, not important, mine has the Flame Thrower II -- without the rev limiter. I've now seem 100s of photos of the chain-driven cam in the 302. The Sierra gear appears to be a good one, maybe the best for me. Wish I could see all the recent comments. I'll look at them when I'm back on CC Fan. BTW, it might interest you to know I phoned the tech line at Pertronix 3 times in the past week. At first, looking for the gear I need. The gear they do not make, nor sell. Each time I asked: "Looking at it from the top, which way does your distributor turn on a "right-hand" Ford 302?" Not a one of the three could answer. Yes, I know it was downright stupid of me to can my old distributor. (I've promised to free up one of 3 garage bays for my wife's car. Pitching old motor stuff was part of that effort.)  ------------- -=Grant MacLaren=- Retired Expert http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier" rel="nofollow - http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: January-17-2016 at 8:51am
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The you tube video reference was to show the flyweight arrangement in that 302 distributor, It's the same as yours. A Chevy distributor rotates CW and the flyweight arrangement is a mirror image of that due to the opposite rotation. You can find shots of that also on you tube Just sayin' your advance mechanism is correct KenO |
Posted By: JPASS
Date Posted: January-17-2016 at 10:31am
Here you go KENO ------------- '92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique |
Posted By: GMacLaren
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 12:05am
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Well, I'll be . . . . Look what I just found on https://youtu.be/TnLMxujRpCI" rel="nofollow - youtube ! Here's its model number:  ------------- -=Grant MacLaren=- Retired Expert http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier" rel="nofollow - http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier |
Posted By: GMacLaren
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 1:18am
ALSO -- as Ken informed me here, the shaft diameter differs from base diameter to diameter under gear. The new gear will be carefully fitted to the shaft, both diameter, and distance from shaft end. Thanks to all -- esp. Ken -- I've learned more than I thought I'd ever need, or want, to know about dizzy gears. ------------- -=Grant MacLaren=- Retired Expert http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier" rel="nofollow - http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: January-18-2016 at 9:41am
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Nice "find" Grant Grant seems to have stumbled into a 351W RR gear rather cheaply and his engine guy/machinist is going to bush it to get the correct ID just like Duane suggested. |
Posted By: GMacLaren
Date Posted: January-23-2016 at 3:48pm
This may explain why Pertronix does not find it necessary to provide RH rotation gears for their distributors: ------------- -=Grant MacLaren=- Retired Expert http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier" rel="nofollow - http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-23-2016 at 5:38pm
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Welcome to the world of Pertronix,you won't find many happy users here. D.U.I seem to be the performance distributor of choice and come with the proper gear for your application ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-23-2016 at 7:10pm
Grant, I sure agree with Gary and sure hope you picked up that Pertronix real cheap. Don't forget to factor in the gear you thought was expensive! When you make a purchase like this, I'd say it pays to ask here first. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: GMacLaren
Date Posted: January-24-2016 at 8:33pm
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Pictures, . . . always asking for pictures . . . So, here are two pictures:   ------------- -=Grant MacLaren=- Retired Expert http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier" rel="nofollow - http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier |
Posted By: GMacLaren
Date Posted: February-03-2016 at 12:41pm
http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier/gearfit/index.html" rel="nofollow - MORE PICTURES!  ------------- -=Grant MacLaren=- Retired Expert http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier" rel="nofollow - http://www.grantmaclaren.com/72skier |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: February-03-2016 at 2:08pm
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Looks good Grant I did the easy part, Duane.s the talented one who did the hard part. Since the 302 RR gears are pretty scarce and expensive these days, Duane took a 351 RR gear and sleeved it to fit the shaft, drilled a new hole for the pin and you're in business. Maybe Duane will post any issues he may have run into since this might be the easiest route for people with a 302RR if needing a new gear KenO |
Posted By: KeithN
Date Posted: February-19-2022 at 5:09pm
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You can get reverse rotation engine distributor gears from aaamarine.com usually. They maintain a distributor gear stock of about 500. ------------- Keith |
Posted By: KeithN
Date Posted: February-19-2022 at 5:16pm
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aaamarine.com usually has complete HEI marine distributors (including reversed) for Chevy, Ford & Chrysler. These have 65000 volt coils, and with power timing increases power (up to 55HP) and corresponding economy too. Worth looking into. ------------- Keith |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: February-19-2022 at 6:51pm
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Keith Here's a link to your thread from 2020, you forgot to answer any of the questions that got asked How about a topless picture of a 351w HEI distributor showing how the hole for the original vacuum advance mechanism is blocked off and maybe a shot of it's bottom showing the screened vent(s) ?
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