351W RR Seals
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38164
Printed Date: September-20-2024 at 11:27pm
Topic: 351W RR Seals
Posted By: brentdekeyser
Subject: 351W RR Seals
Date Posted: February-24-2016 at 9:02pm
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I'm looking for part numbers for the Rear main seal and timing cover seals on a 1984 351W Reverse Rotation. Any help would be appreciated. |
Replies:
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: February-25-2016 at 2:49pm
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If it is smooth/polished you can use a automotive rear main seal available at any parts store. Fel-Pro sells these and they are available at every parts store. In 1984 Ford switched to a one piece rear main seal mid year. Yours is either a two piece seal or a one piece full round design. You need to see it to order a new one. The one piece part # BS40509 started in July of 1983 The Two piece part # is BS40042 The TIming cover seal comes in a set: TCS 45450 These are Fel-Pro part numbers. There is a listed PTFE Teflon part listed for the one piece rear seal but you can't use it. It wont work with reverse rotation engines.. These are a better design but they are threaded for standard rotation only. BS40645 If your surface is not smooth/polished you might need to clean it up with emery cloth or invest in a Spedi Sleeve to cover with a new surface. |
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: February-27-2016 at 12:45am
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Two piece seal, crank has wick lines, seal has none. $14 auto seal will work. The "marine" version for $76.52 has the same ford number on it. One piece seal has the wick lines and the crank is smooth, no wick lines. You have to use the marine seal because the wick lines are opposite direction. If you put an auto one piece seal in, it will pull oil out into the bilge. http://www.skidim.com/REAR-MAIN-SEAL-RH-351-1PC/productinfo/MAL9-61626/" rel="nofollow - http://www.skidim.com/REAR-MAIN-SEAL-RH-351-1PC/productinfo/MAL9-61626/ http://www.skidim.com/SEAL-FRONT-COVER-RH-302_351/productinfo/R047044/" rel="nofollow - http://www.skidim.com/SEAL-FRONT-COVER-RH-302_351/productinfo/R047044/ ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: February-27-2016 at 5:55am
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I think the Wick lines you refer to are the Helix lines on the crankshaft, looks like \\\\\\\\\ all the way around the crank. Designed to direct oil back into the oil pan. |
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: February-27-2016 at 10:48am
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I thought a helix was a line in a spiral, you know like double helix aka dna ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: February-27-2016 at 3:22pm
| I have not idea where the name came from but Crank Shaft grinders refer to that type crankshaft as with Helix or without. Without is just a polished crank face like all the other journals. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-27-2016 at 3:34pm
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Mark, Looks like you are using the proper terminology. http://www.fme-cat.com/LiveDocs/Rear%20Main%20Seal%20Sets.pdf" rel="nofollow - Per Fel-Pro, they use "helix" ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: February-27-2016 at 3:38pm
| Thanks, I had heard the term so many times I accepted it as fact. Never looked it up. |
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: February-28-2016 at 11:21am
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Pete, looks like Fel-pro is calling the protruding rib on the seal, a single or a double rib a helix, no reference to any parallel lines. Any way, I'm going to keep using "wick lines". ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-15-2016 at 12:37am
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Mallory has a reverse rotation seal as well. Works good lot cheaper than the other one ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: March-15-2016 at 10:28pm
This crank is a RR 302 circa 1978  ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
MrMcD wrote:Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: March-27-2016 at 10:57pm
| i had to deal with this earlier with my rebuild. my crank was smooth so had to find one piece seal for 351 Reverse Rotation. Found a source that supplies engine builders. if needed i can dig it out of my receipts. Some place out of CA. |
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: March-27-2016 at 10:58pm
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ok found it Alex's Parts. google it and you will find what you need |
Posted By: Wilhelm Hertzog
Date Posted: August-30-2020 at 3:24pm
I'm going to have to pull off my timing cover, and want to make sure I order the right gasket/seal kit. Does TCS 45450 include the reverse rotation seal? Summit Racing has a higher price for just the seal ( https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-17795" rel="nofollow - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-17795 ) than for the kit ( https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-tcs45450" rel="nofollow - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-tcs45450 ) which doesn't seem to make sense?
------------- 1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |
Posted By: Wilhelm Hertzog
Date Posted: September-01-2020 at 4:29pm
Summit tells me I will have to buy the separate seal for my reverse rotation engine: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEL-TCS45450 . Are they just trying to upsell, or will I really have to buy it? ------------- 1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: September-01-2020 at 5:29pm
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If the seal has directional wick lines you might want the special Summit seal. I don’t recall any front seal leak issues with a standard seal on the timing cover,, maybe someone Can offer first hand experience. ------------- |
Posted By: Wilhelm Hertzog
Date Posted: September-25-2020 at 6:42am
The seal that came with the TCS45450 kit does appear to have directional wick lines - see below. So I guess I'll have to get the special reverse rotation seal? ------------- 1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-27-2020 at 5:33am
That would be the best solution
 |
Posted By: Wilhelm Hertzog
Date Posted: September-28-2020 at 9:33am
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Following this http://www.felpro.com/find-my-part/part-number-results.html?part=17795" rel="nofollow - link from Fel-Pro's site to https://drivcat.com/overlays/part-detail.aspx?brandId=FL&pNum=17795&partType=Timing%20Cover%20Seal" rel="nofollow - this page shows an image of a seal with a part number CR18562 printed on it. This seems to be a SKF part number: http://www.skfextranet.com/crsealsfinder/datasheet.aspx?s=18562" rel="nofollow - link . And appears to cross-reference to https://drivcat.com/overlays/part-detail.aspx?pNum=224570&partType=Differential%20Pinion%20Seal&brandId=NW" rel="nofollow - this National part. Can anyone perhaps confirm that these three seals (Fel-Pro 17795, SKF CR18562, National 224570) are all interchangeable? The Fel-Pro seal is going to cost me a fortune to get hold of in South Africa, so I'm trying to see if there is a more affordable seal out there that will do the job.. ------------- 1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-28-2020 at 11:58am
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http://www.skfextranet.com/crsealsfinder/datasheet.aspx?s=18562" rel="nofollow - link . to SKF seal The seal in your link above has the right dimensions, don't know about direction of wick lines or if maybe it's a smooth seal with no wick lines. If it's smooth, I'd give it a whirl I think the national seal you linked has slightly different dimensions. Felpro doesn't make their seals, National does. That's why you find a National part number on Felpro seals.
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Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: September-28-2020 at 12:59pm
Heck, I even remember a guy that sanded the direction lines off of a seal one time!!!
------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: Wilhelm Hertzog
Date Posted: September-28-2020 at 2:26pm
Seriously? If that will work I'm going to give it a shot... ------------- 1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-28-2020 at 3:09pm
I remember that guy too...............it was me I daintily sanded the wick marks off a normal rotation rear main seal for a 302 to turn it into a smooth seal Your next question will probably be , did it work? and my answer will be "I don't know" It was shipped off to "Chucky" here on CCF and I don't know if he used it, but I do know he hasn't finished the boat yet. It's one of those try at your own risk type of things, but being a front seal on an engine tilted back about 15 degrees, if the seal in your link isn't smooth, I'd sure as hell give it a shot on the seal that came in your kit. Once upon a time there were pictures in Chucky's thread.....but they're gone with the CCF hack job. It's a bit of tedious sanding and you just want to get rid of the wick lines without affecting the very tip of the lip. It think it was 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper that I used. We'll just say "Good luck Mr Hertzog" and give it hell The worst it can do is leak. |
Posted By: Wilhelm Hertzog
Date Posted: November-03-2020 at 2:07am
So I managed to get hold of the SKF CR18562 seal for a very reasonable price. While the key dimensions do match (as Ken pointed out), the seal certainly looks very different than the one that came with the TCS45450 kit. Will it work nonetheless? Ken?   ------------- 1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: November-03-2020 at 7:36am
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The SKF seal is just the newer style seal. It'll work, just install it with the flat side out and the spring loaded lip on the inside. The flat outer side should be flush with the timing cover. |
Posted By: Wilhelm Hertzog
Date Posted: November-03-2020 at 9:51am
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Great, thanks Ken. P.S. I did click the 'Thanks' button for your post, but have been advised by Keith that a separate 'Thank you' post is not a bad idea when it comes to thanking people for their inputs. Not sure what the general forum views are around this, but I figured rather be safe than sorry in this case. ------------- 1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: November-05-2020 at 5:57am
Thanks for the thanks. By the way, the new style seal is a lot easier to replace on the engine than the older one. Mostly it's easier to remove, than the flanged older style.
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Posted By: Wilhelm Hertzog
Date Posted: December-31-2021 at 9:02am
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Just to wrap this thread (or at least my discussions in the thread) up: I did install the SKF CR18562 seal (I also fitted a speedi sleeve to the harmonic balancer), and it's been working fine - no signs of leaking so far. ------------- 1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |