Battery Recommendation Needed
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38347
Printed Date: November-16-2024 at 8:51pm
Topic: Battery Recommendation Needed
Posted By: cmacbuck69
Subject: Battery Recommendation Needed
Date Posted: March-31-2016 at 1:26am
| When I started the rebuild of my 83 SN I purchased a non marine battery to get me through the build. It's now replacement time and I'm looking for a little advice on what size and type to purchase. What I'm considering doing is buying a battery for the boat and one for the sound system with a relay that allows both batteries to charge off the alternator automatically. Any opinions on this set up and correct battery size for the boat is appreciated. |
Replies:
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: March-31-2016 at 1:52am
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Someone will come along with the proper dimensions for that box (probably already posted somewhere here) but I'm looking at the cover for my 88 SN right now and it says: 305/302/350/351 380 cca 115 ah |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: March-31-2016 at 7:23am
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Group 65. ------------- Please support The Cystic Fibrosis Foundation 1976 Ski Nautique 351 Escort 1993 Ski Nautique purple and black 351 HO PCM |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-31-2016 at 7:53am
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Chris, An automotive battery is all that's needed for starting. A "marine" isn't needed and NO deep cycles. Unless you are planning on a very high wattage sound system and using it without the engine running for over several hours, a second battery isn't needed.
------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Orlando76 wrote:Posted By: cmacbuck69
Date Posted: March-31-2016 at 10:55am
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The reason for the 2nd battery is that I do have a moderately high wattage sound system that I would like to run when I'm beached on the creek and hanging out. I currently turn the radio off so as to not spend my battery. What is the reasoning to not use deep cycle that is capable of starting the boat? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-31-2016 at 11:01am
A deep cycle battery is designed for a low amp draw over extended periods of time like for a trolling motor. The high amp load of a starter will damage them. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: March-31-2016 at 11:19am
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Consider a BEP DVSR As been said, wont be satisfied how a v8 engine starts of a single deep cycle, especially after some time with a stereo draw.. Likely smoke the starter and or chatter and weld the starter relay closed, and be stuck. Sounds like you already are privy and have a plan ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: March-31-2016 at 11:29am
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There are dual purpose batteries available like the Optima Blue Top, I have a fairly large amp draw and use a single Blue Top as I did not want the extra weight of a 2nd battery. Works fine, usually get about 4yrs out of one. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: shierh
Date Posted: March-31-2016 at 3:59pm
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Had 2 8d gells in my last boat, They weighted just shy of 400 lbs. , well little much for these boats unless you want ballast for wake boarding. Start battery is all you need. Im going to be doing battery soon, my under deck dimensions changed so im going to have to go low profile. Not building a box but the compartment will be sealed and should qualify as a box. |
Posted By: Sampson 182
Date Posted: March-31-2016 at 9:25pm
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I have a 2 battery setup on my 87 2001. I have 2 group 65 batteries wired up to a Perko switch under the dash on the floor kick panel. I have the normal battery in the hole in the floor then I have a second battery in a plastic box behind the spotter seat. I too have a rather powerful sound system as well as LED lights we run at night and it works great. I keep the Perko on batteries 1@2 and can run my radio all day on the lake and my LED's for a night cruise and have no worries of the batteries running dead. I can post pic's this weekend as my boat is already at the lake house due to the sweet weather here in NC. ------------- 1987 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-31-2016 at 10:20pm
What's the wattage of the LED's? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Sampson 182
Date Posted: March-31-2016 at 10:53pm
 Peter I am sorry I, know I will have my legs switched for not knowing the amp draw but here is the underwater light its an OCEAN LED. Please excuse my lack of knowledge??The box says 0.5 A ?? ------------- 1987 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: March-31-2016 at 11:44pm
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Good thing there's that 2nd battery for the 6 watt load. ------------- Please support The Cystic Fibrosis Foundation 1976 Ski Nautique 351 Escort 1993 Ski Nautique purple and black 351 HO PCM |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-31-2016 at 11:47pm
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Don, As Todd confirms, the LED's draw is next to nothing. You don't have any worries with draining a battery with them. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: April-01-2016 at 12:07am
Quinner is spot on. And if one's radio is powerful enough to truely warrant a 2nd battery, turn it down, nobody wants to hear that whipper snapper stuff. ------------- Please support The Cystic Fibrosis Foundation 1976 Ski Nautique 351 Escort 1993 Ski Nautique purple and black 351 HO PCM |
Posted By: Sampson 182
Date Posted: April-01-2016 at 12:20am
WOW???? PO added the battery but it works good. Chris to answer your original question it can be done just use a Perko. ------------- 1987 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: cmacbuck69
Date Posted: April-01-2016 at 12:32am
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Get off my lawn and turn down that darn music you daggum whippersnappers! I just want to be able to beach her up on the creek and relax to the smooth grooves of Engelbert Humperdinck and not have to get up to turn the boat on! Don your set up is what I'm trying to accomplish and it may also help me upgrade my music selection! Pictures of your set up this weekend would be very cool! |
Posted By: dangerwil
Date Posted: April-01-2016 at 1:20am
| Better put some Skynyrd on the playlist if yall headed ta redneck beach! |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-01-2016 at 7:06am
Chris, I didn't say anything when you mentioned this the first time but, there is a "the rest of the story"!!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: cmacbuck69
Date Posted: April-01-2016 at 10:22am
| Quinner, how long can you run your stereo with your blue top without the boat running before you would need to turn it back on? |
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: April-02-2016 at 5:40pm
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Get an Odyssey battery. They are made with real lead, not lead alloy like the rest. And last up to 10 years. I have two in my boat. They are something like 1200 cranking amps each. They are heavy, and they can rebound in 30 minutes where other batteries take 10 hours. Just google and check them out. Optima batteries were bought out by Johnson Controls and the quality dropped. http://www.odysseybattery.com/design_advantages.aspx" rel="nofollow - http://www.odysseybattery.com/design_advantages.aspx ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: cmacbuck69
Date Posted: April-02-2016 at 11:20pm
| Bill, just realized you're from OP. You know some Skynard is required for entry into redneck beach! I'll keep an eye out for you on the creek this season! I'll be in a blue and black 83 SN with a wake tower. |
Posted By: OptimaJim
Date Posted: April-06-2016 at 3:06pm
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Hello, I noticed your conversation involving our products and wanted to offer some assistance. Marine batteries in general tend to be identical to their automotive counterparts, except that they typically do offer threaded terminal connections and they typically offer shorter warranties. The only real reason for the shorter warranty on an identical battery is because most boaters tend to abuse their batteries, by not maintaining them properly when not in use, which will shorten the lifespan. If you're doing all the wiring, it doesn't matter what kind of termination your battery has, but the idea behind using two batteries is to make sure your boat starts when you need it, so make sure they are isolated from each other. There's a lot of false information posted here, so I'll do my best to address what I can. In terms of deep-cycle batteries, the types of deep-cycle batteries used on trolling motors by most anglers won't be harmed in any way by a starter or vice-versa. All lead-acid batteries are made with real lead. Most use recycled lead, which won't perform as well or last as long as 99.99% pure virgin lead, which we use in all of our batteries. Tim D's claims about quality issues with our batteries are false. Cranking amps is an irrelevant specification for what you want to do with an auxiliary battery. Most standard size automotive or marine batteries will have no trouble starting any engine in a Nautique and there's no need to over-buy in that regard. For your auxiliary battery, you'll want to look at reserve capacity and cycle life, which will tell you how long the battery will be able to deliver current with the engine off and how many times you'll be able to do that before your battery reaches the end of it's lifespan. This is important, because some battery warranties end at the end of the battery's “normal” lifespan, as determined by the retailer, even if the warranty suggests there is a specific time frame in terms of years. Some will also void your warranty if you use the wrong charger, the wrong alternator or allow your battery to be discharged below a minimum voltage level, which can be a cut-off as high as 10 volts. We don't slip in exclusions like that in http://www.optimabatteries.com/en-us/support/warranties/on-or-after-2-1-2009/" rel="nofollow - our warranty , but it's a good idea to read through the fine print of any battery warranty before you make a purchase, It's not uncommon for our sponsored tournament anglers to come off the water after a day of fishing with their batteries discharged well into the single-digits. If you run your stereo loud enough and long enough and you'll do the same. Some things you will want to consider are the wiring and alternator you are using. If you are using the stock alternator from 1983, Correct Craft probably selected it thinking the electrical demands would be relatively-minimal and limited to maintaining a single battery near a full state of charge. In terms of the battery, most alternators are designed to maintain batteries that are near a full state of charge, not recharging deeply-discharged batteries. Asking an alternator to maintain one battery, while also recovering a second deeply-discharged battery may be more than most alternators can handle over time, especially if you aren't running the engine long enough to give the alternator enough time to recover the deeply-discharged battery. As a result, you may want to consider upgrading your alternator and definitely keeping your batteries maintained off the water with a quality battery maintenance device. You'll also want to be sure you are using robust wiring to connect everything together and have solid grounds. Jim McIlvaine eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries www.facebook.com/optimabatteries |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: April-06-2016 at 5:14pm
Not really sure to be honest, mine has a big draw (2) amps, 1@900w & 1@500w, (6) 6.5" cabin speakers, (1) 10" Sub and (4) 10" tower speakers. Somewhat rare we play music unless under power, on the occasion we are cranking at the sandbar I will usually start it up and high idle. At lower volumes I would feel comfortable playing for at least an hour as long as I had a jump box or tow boat with me, lol ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: April-06-2016 at 5:59pm
Really?????? JC acquired Optima in 2000. I bought an Optima in 2001 for my boat that is actually still working perfectly fine in my truck today. How many Odyssey's have you had that worked for 15 years? Geez, I sound like Pete now....LOL. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-06-2016 at 6:59pm
Jim, thanks for joining the site and adding your comments. Nice job of explaining the advantages of your batteries but doing so while offering some solid advice and info. Much appreciated! ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: April-09-2016 at 8:36pm
I going on first hand information from a friend of mine. He installs custom sound systems and he has held national SPL titles in the past. He has tested and installed more batteries than anyone on this site. When he gets a new brand in the shop he will run tests on it and checks the standing voltage after 24 hours. Here's a pic of one of his customers vehicle, a Ford Explorer. This is the hatch back, 12" mid-ranges and tweeters, The back seat area contains the subs. He went with Optima batteries, then 18 wheeler batteries and then fixed it (load demand) with Odyssey batteries. When he tells me one is better than the other, I take his word on it. ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: OptimaJim
Date Posted: April-11-2016 at 11:16am
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Tim D, I'm having trouble understanding how your friend's personal preference for batteries has any correlation with Johnson Controls purchasing the Optima brand and a suggested subsequent decline in quality. Jim McIlvaine eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries www.facebook.com/optimabatteries |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: April-11-2016 at 12:06pm
Welcome Jim, good to have you here. I respect that this is your livelihood and don't doubt your overall proficincy, However on this single point I must vehemently disagree because of witnessing repetitive evidence to the contrary over decades. My observation is DeepC batteries eat v8 starting sytems, especially conventional ones without gear reduction starters. Maybe year 1 will get by, but eventually will cause problems with labored cranking, low voltage under draw, high amps due to slow armature rpm, low I timesV power, overheated cabling, slow crank speeds, and chattering or welded solenoids. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: skutsch
Date Posted: April-11-2016 at 12:11pm
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By the way guys, Jim is not just a "battery guy" he is also a water skier, barefooter and I think has even owned a number of ski boats, maybe even a correct craft along the way. Super nice guy too! ------------- Our http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4669" rel="nofollow - 98 Sport Nautique My Dad's 63 Ski N |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: April-11-2016 at 12:21pm
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even better! ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-11-2016 at 3:17pm
Tom, It's my observation on the deep cycles as well. Unless Opitma has some design beyond the normal industry standard, deeps just can't handle the high amp draws. You can only do so much with the physics of lead and acid. There is one other scenario. It's common for a companies marketing department to do some brainwashing on their pitch men!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: April-11-2016 at 7:41pm
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On my 78 Nautique I was using the largest lead acid battery I could squeeze into the box and they kept going out. I was at an Automotive Trade show and discussed this with the Exide Rep, they made batteries. He said my problem was very common. The larger batteries squeeze larger plates into the case and they end up close together. In my old flat bottom 78 Nautique the pounding ( I was young then ) would cause the plates to move and since they were close together they would start shorting out. I went to two small batteries, I don't remember the group size but two fit into the stock 78 Nautique battery box mounted sideways.. Each was rated between 400 and 500 AMPs and those batteries were still in the boat when I sold it. 6 or seven years later. The cost of the two was less than the cost of one large 800 Amp back then I wired them in tandem and it worked out very well. It would be easy to wire in an isolator so you could save one for starting power, some isolators now have a cut off switch that kicks in to save enough starting power. The large Amp boosters run in the big stereo's draw a huge amount of amps. Then amp in my Yukon Denali with a Bose system would drain my 800 amp battery in about 2 hours of music use. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-11-2016 at 8:43pm
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Mark, I've reported the same problem on the site several times. Years ago I too made the mistake of thinking a bigger battery is better. I went through a couple of the big Exides before I found out how the insides were made. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: OptimaJim
Date Posted: April-12-2016 at 12:58pm
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Hi GottaSki, I appreciate your feedback regarding deep-cycle batteries. I probably should've defined deep-cycle batteries better- Group size 31 and smaller, lead-acid batteries either in flooded or AGM form, which is what can be found in nearly every powerboat on the water under 25 feet. That doesn't mean someone might not use a gel battery or massive 8Ds like shierh, but they are outliers and certainly nowhere near the rule. Hollywood citing specifications for his '88 SN of 380CCA & 115AH speaks to that point. Most folks here won't even go to a Group 27 or 31 battery size and will probably stick with the smaller Group 65 range (I wish group sizes made sense as they relate to the actual size of the battery). Batteries like our YellowTops and BlueTops (with light-gray cases) are considered dual-purpose batteries, offering the capability to serve as either a starting battery or a deep-cycle house battery. Even our little YellowTop battery for the Prius offers 450CCA in a 26-lb container, although it falls well short in terms of the reserve capacity requirements Hollywood listed. That Group 51-sized battery is a popular choice amongst drag racers, who need just enough cranking amps to get their engine started. The top fuel hydro we sponsor uses https://www.pinterest.com/pin/252905335303458600/" rel="nofollow - three of them in it's 36-volt system to start an engine that needs way more cranking amps than anything someone could ever cram underneath a Nautique's engine cover. When we see labored cranking or slow cranking speed in marine applications (or street applications) on a battery that is relatively-new, the reason is almost always low voltage due to lack of maintenance. It's no secret that for Optima and many other brands and manufacturers who offer “marine” batteries, the only difference between those batteries and their automotive counterparts is typically a set of threaded terminals and a shorter warranty period. The shorter warranty is the result of a known history of improper battery maintenance. While the ideal scenario for storage (including in-season) is to have a battery connected to a quality battery maintenance device, the best most folks will manage is to disconnect the battery when a boat goes into storage and many won't even do that. Whenever any battery (again, talking about lead-acid here) is discharged below 12.4 volts and is left sitting in that state, sulfation will begin to form in the plates, which diminishes both capacity and lifespan. That's why some brands and manufacturers have exclusionary language in their warranties relating to low voltage conditions and improper maintenance. I was really surprised when Edwin Evers, one of our sponsored tournament anglers, offered to https://youtu.be/QFuqEYcq0LI" rel="nofollow - share some of what I considered were his trade secrets regarding battery maintenance . While his advice is more specific to tournament anglers who are fishing tournaments, it does make sense for skiers as well. If a battery is going to fail because of a manufacturing defect, regardless of brand, it will probably happen within the first month of use, if not the first week. Beyond that time frame, battery lifespan is largely connected to how a battery is used and maintained. Steve, you are correct that I would consider myself a skier, although just because I have barefooted before, I don't really consider myself one. I did own a '97 Sport Nautique and I've been in a bit of a drought for a while, although I almost pulled the trigger on a SN out in Nevada last summer and I'm still open to the right boat in the right location at the right price if my family's schedule aligns. MrMcD, I can't comment on how other products are assembled other than to say that some flat-plate manufacturers still insert plates into cases by hand. Our cells are mechanically-inserted under pressure and with very precise tolerances. There is also a difference between “wet” products where plates are suspended in an electrolyte solution and “dry” products, where the glass matting in between plates holds the electrolyte. Jim McIlvaine eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries www.facebook.com/optimabatteries |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: April-14-2016 at 10:08pm
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Pete, I think when you spend your money and learn the hard way we tend to stick with what works. I have heard a large number of people love the newer dry cel technology and I know of an equal number that have had issues with them. I know many car collectors. My wet battery gives me at least 4 years at about half the price so I have not stepped up to the new technology. I will admit though that my wife's BMW has to have a AGM or it does not work. Yeah, I tried wet cel. You can do it in the BMW if you have the computer reprogrammed to charge a wet cel. If you don't reprogram the AGM program will burn up a wet cel in about 2 mos. Costs about $200 to reprogram so not worth it. Mark |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-14-2016 at 10:37pm
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I finally replaced the cheapy battery that came with my boat 8 years ago. It still worked, but I thought it might go without warning. Bought a Blaines 7 year warranty group 65, hopefully is my last one. I think OptJim is right, proper charging maintenance is the key. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |