Reversing Engine Rotation?
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3878
Printed Date: November-23-2024 at 2:20pm
Topic: Reversing Engine Rotation?
Posted By: Andrew McBride
Subject: Reversing Engine Rotation?
Date Posted: June-14-2006 at 1:49pm
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I found an excellent built 351W that is for sale, but the engine is reverse rotation and I need standard. What parts will I need to swap the rotation? I have heard of guys doing this, but I am not real sure.
Thanks, Andrew ------------- Andrew McBride 83' Ski Nautique "Under Construction" |
Replies:
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: June-14-2006 at 1:52pm
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Reverse rotation is more technically correct for your boat, why mess with it? ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-14-2006 at 2:08pm
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Your boat came with a reverse rotaion engine from the factory.
So if it is now a standard rotation engine then the only things that will swap are the exhaust and intake manifolds, alt,and rwp. What makes you think it's a standard rotation engine? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: Andrew McBride
Date Posted: June-14-2006 at 6:40pm
The prop says RH rotation. Thats why I think it is RH. I spoke with a tech from CC and he said that some were standard and some were reverse. ------------- Andrew McBride 83' Ski Nautique "Under Construction" |
79nautique wrote:Posted By: Andrew McBride
Date Posted: June-14-2006 at 6:42pm
No its Standard RH. I am just asking what I need to do to reverse an engine. ------------- Andrew McBride 83' Ski Nautique "Under Construction" |
Posted By: bwooton
Date Posted: June-14-2006 at 6:46pm
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Just index the velvet drive to accept a reverse rotation engine. its easy and a lot cheaper. the manual in the ref section will tell you exactly how to do it. ------------- Thanks Bobby there's no replacement for displacement |
Posted By: bwooton
Date Posted: June-14-2006 at 6:48pm
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you can index the trans to accept a reverse rotation engine. the manual in the ref section will explain how. ------------- Thanks Bobby there's no replacement for displacement |
Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: June-15-2006 at 4:36am
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Andrew, if your motor turns a RH prop then is is a reverse rotating engine and not a standard. You have to remember that if you are looking at the engine from the rear, a reverse rotating engine turns clockwise. The same engine when looked at from the front turns counter-clockwise. This confuses many people. The engine you found will be a direct replacement. ------------- 95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: June-15-2006 at 6:42am
Whatever, put it in backwards. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-15-2006 at 9:35am
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It's STANDARD for the boat or a CC in that they where all reverse rotation engines from the factory until the 90's. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: Andrew McBride
Date Posted: June-15-2006 at 9:45am
What your saying makes perfect sense. So many of the these so-called correct craft guys tell me so many different stories about the boats in the 80's. What your saying makes sense. Also, I have asked this question a couple times on this board and everyone gives me a different rotation. ------------- Andrew McBride 83' Ski Nautique "Under Construction" |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: June-15-2006 at 9:50am
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Don't get hung up on LH-RH talk, your getting good info here. The engine your boat came with was "reverse rotation". Reverse in relation to a standard automotive configuration. If you have found a reverse rotation motor your in the clear. If not you would need a different prop and to index the pump. Its all good, bask in the glory of your new found engine.. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: Andrew McBride
Date Posted: June-15-2006 at 9:55am
I appreciate your input. I wasn't wanting to argue on the topic, I was just looking for a answer that was right. A lot of guys just post up answers and have no clue. Your answer was short and I have no idea if you know the right info. It is unreal how many different answers people have told me. I thought someone from correct craft would actually know his own stuff. I would agree with you guys that RR engine is the one I need. It is now ordered. ------------- Andrew McBride 83' Ski Nautique "Under Construction" |
Posted By: rmcdonald
Date Posted: June-15-2006 at 10:37am
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Hi Andrew
Don't want to get into a debate about which rotation is correct for you boat, but to answer you original question. To change the rotation of that engine, you would need to buy a starter motor that runs in the oposite direction, new cam that has the lobes ground in the correct way and pretty sure you will require a some modifications. Here is another option that you have. Buy a prop that rotates in the new direction Index the pump on the front of the Velvet Drive To work in the new direction of the engine. To index the pump for oposite direction is well documented in the Velvet drive manual in the Refernce section of this site. Regards Rob McDonald |
Posted By: rmcdonald
Date Posted: June-15-2006 at 10:38am
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Hi Andrew
That last post should have read Some Modifications or a new distributer Regards Rob |
Posted By: Andrew McBride
Date Posted: June-16-2006 at 9:55am
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Thanks again for everyones help. I am going to post some updates this evening on the boat. ------------- Andrew McBride 83' Ski Nautique "Under Construction" |
Posted By: stang72
Date Posted: June-16-2006 at 1:05pm
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Like nuttyskier mentioned...if it spins a RH prop...it is a reverse rotation. Looking from the stern , it turns right hand and that is a RR.
So if you are getting a RR engine , you should be just fine. ------------- stang Face plants are not that funny when it's you face! http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/images/3720/photo1.jpg" rel="nofollow - The Super Air |
Posted By: GrandSlam
Date Posted: June-16-2006 at 2:37pm
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You guys are getting me confused (sometimes that’s not hard to do). All right, looking at the engine from the front of the engine (belts, alternator, water pump) toward the stern of the boat, counter clockwise rotation is “left hand” rotation – am I straight here? Then looking at the stern of the boat clockwise rotation of the prop is “right handed” prop??? I do not know, I am asking. I understand that my ’89 Fish Nautique 351 has a “left hand” rotation engine, but is turning a “right handed” prop, if so what is the significance? I am going to look at this stuff tomorrow. Have a great weekend, Jerry ------------- Jerry Troy USCG Master, 100GT 1989 23' Fish Nautique 1992 47' Jersey SF |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: June-16-2006 at 2:48pm
| I think early 90s they started using LH engines and having the trans switch the rotation to RH, thus still turning a RH prop on a standard LH engine. |
Posted By: stang72
Date Posted: June-17-2006 at 12:40am
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According to the shop manuals I have...rotation is determined by looking from the stern...Rev Rotation or right hand turns to the right when standing behind the boat.CCW if looking front the front(at the belts etc).
Now I don't know about the tranny switching the rotation....het now I am confused too!  ------------- stang Face plants are not that funny when it's you face! http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/images/3720/photo1.jpg" rel="nofollow - The Super Air |
Posted By: rmcdonald
Date Posted: June-17-2006 at 12:07pm
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Hi All
This is probably going to confuse everyone but here it goes. Engine Rotation: This is determined by looking at the front of the Engine as in the Water pump. Clock Wise is CW or RH Counter Clock Wise is CCW or LH. Borg Warner Pump Index Rotation. This is only for older 71C gear boxes. You index the Hydraulic pump on the Gearbox to match the rotation of the Engine. Your pump index rotation is viewed looking at the pump. The reason that it is determined in this way is that in some applications the gearbox is attached to the front of the engine and not the Fly wheel Prop Rotation is view from the Stern. A prop that rotates Clock wise is right hand Prop. A prop that rotates Counter Clock wise is a left hand Prop So to put it all together. Engine Rotation that is Clock wise ( or RH ) Requires the Gearbox pump to be indexed to RH and requires a left hand prop. Engine Rotation that is Counter Clock Wise ( or LH ) Requires the Gearbox pump to be indexed to LH and requires a Right hand prop. The Borg Warner Gearbox manual in the Reference section has a chart which shows Gearbox model numbers Engine rotation Gearbox pump indexing and required prop I hope this has made some sense. |
Posted By: stang72
Date Posted: June-17-2006 at 10:23pm
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well I have to disagree and agree(at least from the perspective of what I am reading and what my engines do)...I have two complete manufacturers shop manuals...for my 312 and the 302/351.
Both manuals state that the rotation is engine determined by looking from the back of the engine(stern) . So...looking from the back ,a reverse rotation engine spins to the right (CW) and does use a rh prop, standard rotation engines turn left(CCW) and use a LH prop. Hope that adds to the Making sense part ------------- stang Face plants are not that funny when it's you face! http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/images/3720/photo1.jpg" rel="nofollow - The Super Air |
Posted By: rmcdonald
Date Posted: June-18-2006 at 12:03am
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Hi All
This is where the problem lies. Whether you view the engine rotation from the front of the engine or from the rear looking at the fly wheel. EG: A Clock Wise rotation viewed from the front of the engine is also Counter Clock wise when viewed from the Fly Wheel. This is why the Borg Warner Gearbox manual gives you a chart and also tells you how to view engine rotation, so you can correctly index the pump on the front of gearbox pump. irespective of how the engine manufacture determines rotation. Regards Rob |
Posted By: Fook_U
Date Posted: June-18-2006 at 11:46pm
| just look at your car motor and see which way it turns. They are almost all left handed right? |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: June-19-2006 at 6:29am
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<removed mistaken comment> ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: GrandSlam
Date Posted: June-19-2006 at 9:12am
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I am hopelessly confused. How do you download the manuals in the reference section? Maybe a picture will help. I have been able to view/print the brochures, but have not been able to view the manuals. Thanks, Jerry ------------- Jerry Troy USCG Master, 100GT 1989 23' Fish Nautique 1992 47' Jersey SF |
Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: June-19-2006 at 11:24am
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Just click on the manual and allow your computer to open it and display. Then in the upper left hand corner click on "File" then "save as" and designate a drive and folder to save it in. It's a pdf type file which stands for picture document file (I think). Hope this helps. The transmission manuals (there are two of them) will clear this all up for you and alleviate any confusion. ------------- 95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-19-2006 at 1:38pm
this is completely wrong and ass backwards. long story short if you own a correct craft and it has a 1:1 transmission then you have a reverse rotation engine RH from the factory, If it's an older model with an I/O or you have a 1.23:1 transmission then it's conventional rotation LH or automotive rotation. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-19-2006 at 10:14pm
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Well, I have to say that rmcdonald's post is accurate in some places and not others. If you take the time to read the referenced pages of the BW installation manual he refers to it explains it pretty well.
It may sound ass backwards but read it a few times and it's the way that Borg Warner says to figure out the right way to set up the transmission. They even say that it may not agree with how the engine people talk about the direction of rotation. It goes against the logic that the typical CC owner might have. Why's that you ask? Because CC calls our engines reverse rotation(opposite of a car engine). This is determined by looking from the rear toward the front. This gives you a right hand rotation engine. We also have a prop that is right hand turning. Now to get to the confusing part, the BW 71 series 1:1 transmission needs to be set up for what Borg Warner calls left hand rotation for our right hand rotating engines because they look from the front towards the rear. No matter how you look at this it's confusing. Just search through past posts and look for people who put their trans in oriented the wrong way and had a boat that moved equally well in forward, neutral or reverse. It went nowhere at all. Now swap that pump around to what seems backwards and what happens? The boat goes the way it is supposed to. It now has forward, neutral and reverse instead of neutral only So like rmcdonald said it's confusing but if you sit and read old posts, read the installation manual or learned it the hard way by installing a transmission with the pump oriented wrong maybe it will save you some trouble in the future. There is a lot of misunderstanding with these transmissions, some people think you can reorient the pump and make your left hand rotation engine turn a right hand rotation prop. It won't work, once again you will have a boat that runs great in neutral so matter what you do with the shifter. It sure would be nice if you could, then we wouldn't have to buy right hand rotating engines or the parts that you need for them. Life would be a lot simpler. I only happen to know this transmission stuff because I may have learned by screwing it up in the past and having to figure out why. So take some time and do some reading and no matter how you figure out and understand what's right it will save you some headaches down the road sometime when you are doing transmission work or having it done. The simplest most foolproof way is to orient the pump so the little arrow next to the word TOP is pointing the way the engine rotates.
keno |
Posted By: stang72
Date Posted: June-19-2006 at 10:28pm
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I hope Andrews question has been answered.
It certainly appears to me that if he is purchasing a reverse rotation engine , then he should not need to change anything with the tranny(considering a RH prop was on the shaft). ------------- stang Face plants are not that funny when it's you face! http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/images/3720/photo1.jpg" rel="nofollow - The Super Air |
Posted By: rmcdonald
Date Posted: June-20-2006 at 7:12am
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Hi 79nautique
"this is completely wrong and ass backwards." The above is a pretty bold statement to make, May be it’s because I am from Australia (The land down under) turn the post upside down it might help. 
Below I have put the correct setup using your terminology. The only part that’s not your terminology is the pump index which is Borg Warners Using your terminology, this is the correct setup. Engine: Reverse Rotation (Right Hand) Gearbox pump index orientation: LH or <--- Prop: Right Hand (depending on age of gearbox they have LH, RH or arrows <--, --> stamped on the pump) Engine: Normal Rotation (Left Hand) Gearbox pump index orientation: RH or --> Prop: Left Hand (depending on age of gearbox they have LH, RH or arrows <--, --> stamped on the pump) No wonder people get the pump index wrong Regards Rob McDonald 
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Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-20-2006 at 9:50am
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RH = CCW reverse rotation
LH = CW standard rotation. BW tranny is always index opposite of engine's rotation. it isn't CC's terminology it's the marine industries terms. You can get about any brand marine engine in standard or reverse rotation just go look at a big cruieser with duel engines. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-20-2006 at 9:27pm
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Hi Y'all
Why don't we put this one to bed. If you can read the installation manual you can orient your pump the right way. keno |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-20-2006 at 10:18pm
I agree with '79, except he forgot to mention that the Nautiques with 454's were conventional LH engines mated to 1:1 trannies and turned LH props  ------------- |
Posted By: SS-201
Date Posted: June-21-2006 at 6:20am
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Car facing front, Marine looking from the back it has been that forever. ------------- SS 201 |
Posted By: rmcdonald
Date Posted: June-24-2006 at 10:48am
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Hi All
I hate absolutes! 
My main purpose for posting on this site is to gather information for myself or give out relevant information, which allows people to determine the right solution for themselves Since 79nautique made his comments, I have done some research. Borg Warner refers to Engine Rotation in the way I describe. The Chrysler Marine Manual, which is also available from this site refer to Engine Rotation the way I describe it. ( Page 59 & 60 if any one is interested ) Yes I have a Chrysler 383 V8 in my boat. Yet if you look up Marine Engine Rotation on the Internet Some Manuals describe it the way 79nautique describes it looking at the Fly Wheel. The Fly wheel Rotation is a bit hard to determine when the Bell housing and the Gearbox is attached to the Engine and installed in the boat. Unless they have a View point on the Bell Housing They say to look the front or forward end of the Motor. This is also mentioned by the Marine Engine Manuals that 79nautique describe. As I said Earlier my main point of my posts. Prop Rotation cannot be changed by reindexing hydraulic pump on the front of the gearbox. I just want people to get it right the first time, by understanding the concept. However you look at it, this is how it is, 79nautique please comment if you disagree.? Looking a the boat from the Stern to the bow of the Boat. LH prop Gearbox pump indexed RH or --> Fly Wheel LH or CCW. RH prop Gearbox pump indexed LH or --> Fly Wheel RH or CW. --------------------------------------------- Looking at the boat from the bow to the stern of the Boat. LH prop Gearbox pump indexed RH or --> Harmonic Balancer RH or CW. RH prop Gearbox pump indexed LH or <-- Harmonic Balancer LH or CCW. Regards Rob McDonald Prop Rotation cannot be changed by reindexing hydraulic pump on the front of the gearbox. |