Water Pump, G55-2, 1989 Barfoot Nautique
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=39128
Printed Date: November-13-2024 at 9:47pm
Topic: Water Pump, G55-2, 1989 Barfoot Nautique
Posted By: Cambodia
Subject: Water Pump, G55-2, 1989 Barfoot Nautique
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 2:57am
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Hi guys! I'm homing to get some help here: I bought a very well taken care of BFN 2 months ago now, and put a new motor in it due to the previous owner not winterizing. I have the boat running perfectly, but now I cannot make enough water pressure out of the water pump (impeller housing) to make it too the thermostat housing. The bearing on the pump seems fine, and this is impeller has all of its fins. The pump is a Sherwood g55-2 on the 454 motor. Hoses are installed correctly, and it's like the water can't over come the 16" climb to the thermostat. Any ideas of what the issue could be? I don't have any leaks between the water inlet, and the inlet side of the pump. Also, the screen and Velvet Drive Oil cooler is clear. |
Replies:
Posted By: DayTony
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 3:18am
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if your positive everything is installed correctly than i have to ask if you may have installed the impeller the wrong way. you have to preload the rubber vanes in the correct direction. if not they may not perform correctly.or you could possibly be getting air leak somewhere before the pump. The pumps are not designed to create massive pressure. more volume than pressure. How did you come to this and how are you testing this btw. Heres another question. the stock 454 is reverse rotation, at least factory it was. you say you have a new motor, assuming its still reverse rotation? Most of the pumps components are the same and can be run in either direction they just get assembled differently. If your at a dead end and think everything is right but obviously something is not i would start with the pump itself. draw an arrow marking its rotation before removing it. then double triple check its been put together correctly. ------------- 1988 Barefoot nautique-454 |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 9:31am
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Yup, sounds like the pump is plumbed backwards. Hope you just swapped the hoses vs got a LH engine back- that would be a much bigger can of worms. You don't need to worry about the direction the impeller is installed- it will right itself. |
Posted By: DayTony
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 9:47am
i always wondered if it would but preloaded them the way they want to be regardless. its been a while since i rebuilt one but isn't there a piece inside that gets mounted in one spot for rr and a different side for std? not sure what its called its like a half moon shape. Thats more or less what i was worried about with the assembly of it. ------------- 1988 Barefoot nautique-454 |
TRBenj wrote:Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 9:49am
HHHMMMMM, Very well taken care of yet wasn't winterized????? Isn't that an oxymoron. Like others have stated, the pump is probably reversed and I hope that the replacement engine was the correct rotation. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 9:53am
Tony, It's called the cam and is what compresses the fins on the rubber impeller. When the fins come off the cam, they expand to the ID of the pump body causing the negative pressure on the suction side of the pump. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 9:55am
Yes, I'd sure be looking at other "well taken care of" maintenance items!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 11:24am
In the OP's defense I like to think I take care of my boats. If something happened to me tomorrow I'm not sure the others here would know what to do. Nor I'm sure would I care- so let's not come down on him,we have no idea on the circumstances  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 11:39am
I'm sure the CCfan family would be able to handle it. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 11:56am
I'm with Gary here. By the way, on your G55-2 If you have a RH rotation engine the suction line should be hooked up to the pump fitting closest to the centerline of the boat. Discharge to the T stat is the outboard fitting If it's LH rotation the suction would be hooked up to the outboard fitting and the discharge to the one closest to the centerline I verified this by looking at a LH 454 PCM a few minutes ago just to be sure. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 12:03pm
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^yes, the hoses "cross" underneath. The cleaner looking install means you reversed the hoses. The pump cannot be installed backwards. There are only so many reasons the pump won't work. Crossed hoses, major air leak, worn out pump... |
Posted By: Cambodia
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 12:21pm
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So I have already triple checked my hosing. The plumbing is configured this way: -From bottom of boat, to inlet side of sand screen -From outlet side of sand screen to inlet (top) of tranny oil cooler -From outlet (bottom) of tranny cooler to inlet of water pump. -From outlet of water pump, to thermostat, with a small 3/8 line T to the how water shower manifold. The issue is I am not getting water all the way to the thermostat. Only about half way, even with the shower valves closed. I do however, Seem to have good volume out of the pump. How do I check for air leaks, and where? How do I tell if the pump is wore out? |
Posted By: Cambodia
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 12:24pm
| As for fins on the impeller, I have tried pre loading, Both ways. Even if you load the opposite way, the fins work back into the correct direction it spins. |
Posted By: Cambodia
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 12:27pm
| The inlet hose comes in on the 3oclock side of the pump, if you're facing the front of the block. Pump spins counter clockwise with the crank. so outlet water is coming out the 9 oclock side. |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 12:39pm
| A picture tells a thousand words and would correct any misunderstanding's |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 12:40pm
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Hose sound correct. How are you currently testing your pump performance anyway? Run a NEW hose from the INLET of the RWP to a 5 gallon bucket on the floor of the boat. You can use cheap clear vinyl tubing for now (don't rev past 2,000 rpm). Run a garden hose into the bucket and keep it running. Now start your engine. If the RWP is good it will pull water from the bucket and adequately supply the engine with water. If this is the case you've got an issue somewhere in your old hoses, connections, sand screen or trans cooler. |
Posted By: Cambodia
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 12:40pm
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This is where I was at before I posted this thread: When I bought the boat, I replaced the motor with a new RR motor. The motor runs great! I also replaced the impeller with a Sierra brand knock off of the Sherwood 10615 impeller. Once I found that I could not get water to the thermostat by sucking water out of my Fakelake, I just hooked a garden hose directly into the inlet hose (from the elbow in bottom of hull) and was able too water to thermostat and cool the whole motor down that way. Once I saw that I could get water all the way to the thermostat on a garden hose, but NOT from drawing out of my Fakelake, I pulled all of the hoses off to look for potential blockage. I did find old impeller fins stuck in places, that must have worked their way back into the pump, but all of those are cleaned out now. So as of now, after double checking all my hoses, I am still not able to draw enough water out of my Fakelake, to make it all the way to the thermostat. With the thermostat hose off. It will burp water out of the end, once in a while, but its not a steady stream like it should be. The impeller I have in there now is a little tore up, but has all of its fins. I am thinking about replacing it, again. But like I said, I just put that impeller in. |
Posted By: Cambodia
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 12:45pm
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@Hollywood what makes a pump bad? Just the impeller? Aside from the bearing, spinning the shaft, I don't know what kind of wear/damage I need to check for to know if I need to buy a new pump or not. Especially since a replacement is $500+ |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 12:58pm
The Sierra's are known to be a problem. On the Sherwood, there's a ridge on both sides forming an "O" ring type seal on the housing that the Sierra's don't have. Get a Sherwood. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 1:00pm
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The Sierra impellers are known to be bad. Buy a genuine Sherwood [10615k] or PCM. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 1:03pm
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Cams can be worn too and the seal could be sucking air, but HW is right get a genuine impeller you will see the difference in their construction. Get that in sand spinning the correct way and let us know. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 1:05pm
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Should be and not sand ! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 1:49pm
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Sounds to me like the fake- a- lake needs to be relocated to the bottom of a lake somewhere. You said it worked with the garden hose hooked up...............now do Hollywood's bucket method and see if it works. Bet it will work OK unless the impeller is really ragged. Fake- a- lakes can provide a lousy seal, letting the pump suck air and not draw enough of a vacuum to suck any water assuming this is the toilet plunger looking contraption. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 2:07pm
The house water pressure is doing the work not the RWP. x2 throw away the fake a lake |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 6:36pm
| Agree x100. Ditch the fake a lake and the Sierra impeller. |
Posted By: Cambodia
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 7:06pm
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Well, I just purchased 2 Sherwood 10615 impellers for the price I paid for one Sierra knock-off. Live and Learn I guess. The thing that makes me nervous is I've used Sierra impellers before, along with fake-a-lake on my last boat (1988 SN2001) and never had these kind of issues. If I replace the hose, do you guys have any recommendations on what kind to use? |
Posted By: bb12
Date Posted: June-28-2016 at 11:51pm
1" ID wire reinforced. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: June-29-2016 at 12:11am
| No his boat used 1.25" |
Posted By: bb12
Date Posted: June-29-2016 at 11:56am
Yep, my bad. |
Posted By: Cambodia
Date Posted: June-29-2016 at 12:40pm
| Well, I could not draw water out of the bucket, with a new impeller. I cant see where I would be drawing air. I am starting to wonder if it is a pump issue. Has anyone heard of the whole pump being bad? When the bearings spin well, and the shaft isn't worn? |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: June-29-2016 at 1:55pm
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Did you have the cam out of the housing when you rebuilt it? The cam should be at 6:00 if inlet is at 3:00 and outlet at 9:00. Assuming the pulley turns CCW standing in front looking rearward. You are positive the impeller is in fact turning?? On my test stand, I just stick a garden hose in the trans cooler and it works great. Temps are perfect and I know that it has to be sucking air with the water cause the hose won't overflow when it is running but will when shut off. Granted my setup is far from perfect but it illustrates just how much suction you should have. Something is backwards on your setup. ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: June-29-2016 at 2:17pm
http://s134.photobucket.com/user/kfleisch/media/boat%20parts/impellers.jpg.html" rel="nofollow"> 
|
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: June-29-2016 at 2:32pm
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HW, Great illustration. The RR 351 is what I was talking about. Wish he would post some pics of his setup. Mine is a cheap plastic unit (only cheap in quality, not price). I should probably replace with bronze unit, but it works for now. ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-29-2016 at 3:44pm
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His pump should look just like the one Hollywood has on the workbench It's kinda tough to get a good picture on a 454 with the pulley in the way hiding the inlet and outlet which are basically down low and tough to see. I took a picture of a LH hookup the other day but didn't post it because you can't see anything but the pulley in my picture. The RH hose hookup would be like HW's diagram and the Cambodian says his are hooked up that way |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: June-29-2016 at 3:49pm
Ken, but he posted this. Which pump does he have? edit OOPS, I think I see what you are saying now. I thought that would be at 6:00 and 6:00 That is why I wear a digital watch ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-29-2016 at 3:58pm
I just use my phone Looks like it comes in at about 4:15 and leaves at about 8:45
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Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: June-29-2016 at 4:15pm
| Comes in at 6 [from below] and leaves at 9 [towards below]. It kinda makes sense... |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-29-2016 at 4:17pm
| From his description, it sounds like they're hooked up the right way |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: June-29-2016 at 4:26pm
| So this is the old pump from the froze up engine? I suppose the PO could have ruined the pump along with the engine if nothing was drained since the pump would remain full of water when it began to freeze up. If that were the only thing preventing me from hitting the water I'd just buy the new pump and rebuild this one completely next winter. It's gonna be July in a few days... |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: June-29-2016 at 4:50pm
Thanks HW, I'm still grinding Gel (when I can, between races)  ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: Cambodia
Date Posted: June-29-2016 at 8:30pm
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Lots of good input guys! I was able to find someone with the same problem on an old Supra forum thread. I just ordered the new pump, and spent the extra $40 to have it here by Friday. So from what I gather, with the impeller in, it should be really tough to turn by hand? because mine was pretty easy, and I wasn't able to feel much suction on it. |
Posted By: Cambodia
Date Posted: June-29-2016 at 8:37pm
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Also, My pump is the same as Holywood's. Its the Sherwood g55-2. It spins CCW, so water is coming in on the right side as you face it. Just like the illustration. The pump I have primes, but does not make enough pressure to over come the rise from the outlet, to the thermostat (With thermostat end disconnected). With that being said, I don't think there is an air leak in the world that would drop that much pressure. Water should be just gushing out at the thermostat, right? |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-29-2016 at 9:08pm
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You're the one with your eyes and hands and ears on it and when you figure you've covered all the bases you do what you did........buy a new pump. It seems like you covered everything so there was only that one option left. Hope it works out. The pump should turn relatively hard by hand but trying to describe how hard is hard to do. My pump like that puts out about 4 to 5 gpm at idle with about 1 or 2 pounds of discharge pressure. Don't forget to update this thread with the results |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-29-2016 at 9:21pm
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Unless I missed it, I didn't see where anyone has mentioned the pump shaft seal. Before purchasing a new pump, I'd see if a major rebuild kit is available. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-29-2016 at 10:01pm
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http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=43780&familyName=Sherwood+Pump+Major+Repair+Kit+12665" rel="nofollow - Sherwood major rebuild kit ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: June-29-2016 at 11:10pm
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-29-2016 at 11:22pm
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Pete It's obvious he wants this thing running for the 4th of July weekend and he ordered a complete pump to accomplish this. He found somebody on the Supra forum who solved his problems with a new pump, so he's doing the same. The seal didn't leak when he was supplying it with a garden hose. It's his money and his decision to get the new pump |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-30-2016 at 9:15am
By the way Pete,this kit you linked to is for the G21 and many other pumps but not a G55-2, The Sherwood number for the major repair kit for a G55-2 is 23977. I'd say the Jamestown Dist catalog "ain't quite right" in their description. It's pretty obvious that the same impeller doesn't fit all the listed pumps in their description. It fits most of them but it would be real sloppy in a G55-2. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-30-2016 at 9:27am
Ken, I was going by what Jamestown had in their description which does include the G55-2.: "It is designed to fit Sherwood pump models G15, G21, G30-2B, G30-2, G9901, G9903, G55-2, J70, and K75B." Regarding the impeller, I'd sure call Jamestown before ordering! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-30-2016 at 9:43am
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That's why I said the JD catalog "ain't quite right" Just seeing the G21 and G55-2 in the same sentence was a good clue since their impellers are quite different. I have a 2012 Sherwood maintenance and repair manual that I should be able to post a link to. Don't remember how I stumbled into it but one of them little voices in my head seems to say that maybe Gary S had linked it once before. It really should go into the REFERENCE section under manuals and maybe some moderator type like Hollywood can put it there. Link to follow shortly if all goes well. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-30-2016 at 10:17am
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http://www.sherwoodpumps.com/FileAttachments/Marine-Distribution/en-us/MPG_3022_ENGLISH.pdf" rel="nofollow - Sherwood Pumps Manual 2011-2012 Sherwood Manual Only took me 34 minutes, I'm getting geekier
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Posted By: Cambodia
Date Posted: June-30-2016 at 12:12pm
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Thanks guys! Yeah, I was looking really hard at the major rebuild kit, that I found on M arine Wholesale Supply. The main reasons I went with a whole new pump, was the wear in the housing made me a bit nervous, and I didn't want to risk missing out on the weekend. I'll be sure to post results... Hopefully in the form of a picture of the boat on the lake. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: June-30-2016 at 12:14pm
| If you're not going to rebuild the old pump please send it my way, I'll take the risk. |
Posted By: Cambodia
Date Posted: July-05-2016 at 12:58pm
| Well guys, I received the new pump as soon I arrived home from work. Installed it, and BAM! Issue resolved. I had water gushing out to the thermostat. Was able to wakeboard all weekend. Ya' know, everyone raves about the SN2001 for it's superior wake at wakeboard speeds, Like I said, I had one last year... but I would say the BFN wins for wake. Not to mention, when towing a wakeboard, I am able to set my throttle position, and maintain speed. Unlike my last SN2001 and buddy's Malibu.. It feels like I have poor man's Perfect Pass. |