1995 GT-40 Fuel Pump/FCC conversion
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=39174
Printed Date: November-22-2024 at 1:05am
Topic: 1995 GT-40 Fuel Pump/FCC conversion
Posted By: TrevorB
Subject: 1995 GT-40 Fuel Pump/FCC conversion
Date Posted: July-01-2016 at 11:15pm
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Has any one converted a 1995 GT-40 to use the later model Fuel control cell and fuel pump?. My high pressure pump has failed and a replacement can not be located. I was looking at the RA080031 Fuel cell but unsure of how to plumb it in and what hoses would be needed. I looks like the FCC has two outlets for the fuel rails, where the current setup has one. Does anybody have a picture or diagram of the fuel lines? Thanks Trevor ------------- 1995 SNOB GT-40 |
Replies:
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-02-2016 at 12:12am
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Why not call Pleasurecraft themselves and ask them what to do,maybe they have a retrofit for those engines. I personally think it's BS that their not supporting their older engines. I had a parts schematic showing what hoses, and mounting brackets to use on what engines but cannot find it. One major thing on the FCC's I believe is they do away with the return line to the gas tank. Just wait when things like key pads are NA- ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: TrevorB
Date Posted: July-25-2016 at 3:59am
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Found a parts diagram and ordered the FCC and fuel lines from Nautique Parts Installed the FCC and new fuel lines about 2 weeks ago. My intermittent but getting more frequent hot start issues are now gone. ------------- 1995 SNOB GT-40 |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-25-2016 at 10:57am
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Total cost of the conversion??? And if you could post part #s for the hoses it may help others down the road Thanks |
Posted By: tnplicky
Date Posted: July-25-2016 at 2:34pm
| pictures of your conversion too, please |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-25-2016 at 4:47pm
| Did a little search today for the parts needed off the top of my head, it looks like the conversion would run about $680 plus any other fittings one might need to swap over plus some type of mount. |
Posted By: TrevorB
Date Posted: July-26-2016 at 1:22am
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I have taken some pictures, I will post them when I figure out how to do it I spent about 750 on the conversion. Parts used RA080031 FCC R090176 FCC Bracket RA085064 Line rail outlet to FCC RA085063 Line FCC to fuel rail RA024175 Fitting top of fcc to fuel lines 2 req. R024089 3/8 Barb to 1/4 npt 90 deg 2 req Also need a 3/8 barb to 1/4npt fitting. I left the low pressure pump in the stock location(just installed a r080018 the week prior) I took out the original return all the way to the tank. Used about 12ft of3/8 fuel line to get from the tank to the FCC., The water hose to the manifold needed to be turned upward and lengthened for clearance on the FCC, it took about 18" of new 1"hose.I Cut off the original wire plug to the HPP and soldered on new wires and put on a mating weatherpack plug for the FCC ------------- 1995 SNOB GT-40 |
Posted By: TrevorB
Date Posted: July-26-2016 at 2:08am
     ------------- 1995 SNOB GT-40 |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-26-2016 at 11:33am
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Nice job Thanks for the info I'm sure it will help many in the future Also where did you get the weather pac plug that mates to the new FCC plug? |
Posted By: TrevorB
Date Posted: July-27-2016 at 2:27am
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You can get them here http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delphi-Weather-Pack-2-Pin-Sealed-Connector-Kit-16-14-GA-/221582395995 or here https://www.amazon.com/Delphi-Packard-Weatherpack-Terminal-16-14/dp/B004DVM7RG/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1469593543&sr=1-1&keywords=delphi+weatherpack ------------- 1995 SNOB GT-40 |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-27-2016 at 4:16am
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If the old FCC is still available could we tear it apart. I would be glad to try and identify the electric pump inside it so future failures could be easier and cheaper for the owners. PCM did not manufacture a electric pump, I am sure it was made by Carter, Airtex or Bosch. They were the most common and are still available. I have one but really don't want to take a good one apart. Thanks. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-27-2016 at 8:49am
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Mark I think I know what your saying but our 95's don't have a FCC. The fuel pump looks to be specially made to PCM's spec's. If it's opened from its case it does not look like it could be closed back up. Like you though I would like to see one opened up. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-27-2016 at 10:06am
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I will open my old one up after I replace it and do some out of the boat testing with heat a source trying to replicate what's happening. I'm thinking if I can make it act up with a heat source and if I take that heat away and it doesn't maybe it's just a matter of relocation instead of a $750 conversion. Then again maybe it's 20 years old and just needs to be replaced we shall see. Links from Trevor https://www.amazon.com/Delphi-Packard-Weatherpack-Terminal-16-14/dp/B004DVM7RG/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1469593543&sr=1-1&keywords=delphi+weatherpack" rel="nofollow - https://www.amazon.com/Delphi-Packard-Weatherpack-Terminal-16-14/dp/B004DVM7RG/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1469593543&sr=1-1&keywords=delphi+weatherpack http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delphi-Weather-Pack-2-Pin-Sealed-Connector-Kit-16-14-GA-/221582395995" rel="nofollow - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delphi-Weather-Pack-2-Pin-Sealed-Connector-Kit-16-14-GA-/221582395995 |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: July-27-2016 at 10:26am
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Inside of that FCC is almost certainly the in-tank electric pump that was Validated with the Ford pass car V8. I'm bettin'. If it is, it will be fun to beat the cost of the FCC PCM Version! |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-27-2016 at 10:37am
Pete you and Mark are confusing the 95's pump with a '96 and newer pump. There is no FCC. Here is the pump- 96 and up replace this pump with the FCC and it's internal pump -this is the pump out of the FCC-  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: July-27-2016 at 10:39am
| Paul, how long did you own the boat before it started acting up? You're 100% confident that it hasn't always behaved this way? The issues on my merc appeared to be a design flaw, not a worn/degraded component. The very little I know about the Pcm set up leads me to believe it's a similar problem. Why only a 1-year run for the non-FCC set up? |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-27-2016 at 10:58am
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I bought the '95 in '08 and don't remember having any problems until about 2 years ago. The 1 to 2 year run could have been something to do with suppliers, contracts, costs who knows, who knows why CC did a lot of things they did. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-27-2016 at 11:14am
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Except it was most likely PCM's call not CC. Roy would know he was one of them going out and converting them. Sounded like the low pressure pump was an after thought, so they must have had trouble from the start with the whole system. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-27-2016 at 11:58am
Gary your right about that being a PCM thing. I have a call into Roy now waiting on a call back. |
Gary S wrote:Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: July-27-2016 at 3:42pm
| This is very fascinating for some reason. |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-27-2016 at 4:06pm
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Sorry about any confusing terminology. Both pumps in your pictures are nothing special in the automotive electric pump world. My point is they can be replaced by a similar pump that fits and gives the same service for much less money than some are spending. I would be glad to help ID the electric pumps so we could get replacement pump part numbers listed. If that is done already I should have read more first. The Fuel Injected engines we have talked about use 39 PSI + or -, The manufacurers regulate this with the pressure relief valve in the fuel rail. As long as the pump puts out more than 39 PSI it will work well. There used to be a listed max pressure and gallons per hour flow rates for these pumps in the old pump catalogs, most of these could Max at more than 70 psi to maintain the constant 39 for the system so there is a lot of wiggle room on pump replacement. It just has to fit, flow enough fuel and more than 39 PSI. |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: July-27-2016 at 4:08pm
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Stumbled across this Merc service bulletin. It seems to have a lot of interesting general points about vapor lock, aside from the Merc specific stuff. Highlights include: -Change in under engine cover temperatures -Running blower vs no -Change in overall engine temp -Abrubt shut off after hard run without a cool down idling -Quality of fuel -Grade of fuel 87 vs 93 etc. -Number of restrictions, elbows etc. inf fuel supply -Quality and condition of fuel line A few of these things, like quality of fuel, seem to be things that could change over time. http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Bullet/99/99_07.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Bullet/99/99_07.pdf |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-27-2016 at 4:15pm
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Gun driver, if the electric pump is getting Hot the pump is shot. Since fuel runs through the pump at all times it is cooled constantly by the fuel the entire time the engine is running. The fuel temp is the same as tank temp. That should equal outside temps most times. A pump getting hot usually means the bushings inside are worn or damaged from running dry and the friction is heating up the pump. The only solution is replacement. A dry start with a high pressure pump can damage the bushings in as little as 20 seconds run time. Another good reason for your 3 second fuel shut off wired in to all these systems. This is why we all should train everybody in our house to NEVER run out of gas in our cars (boats) or run them on fumes. Fuel Pumps are expensive. |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-28-2016 at 12:11am
That's what I'm thinking, but the million dollar question is why does it run perfectly fine till you shut it off for more than 6-8 minutes???? Could it be that the fuel running through is keeping it cool enough to perform normal then when you shut it down it heat soaks and doesn't pump until you bleed fuel through from the LP to cool it enough for it to work again??? That's what I think is happening. |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-28-2016 at 3:52am
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I wish I could answer this but I don't know. You may be right. Does it make any odd noise while running? Usually if they sound good they are good. Have you tried tapping on the pump to get it to jump start? How many hours on this unit, maybe it is just time for replacement. I hope it is not an electrical issue and I am steering the wrong way. Have you checked the amp draw cold when it works vrs the amp draw how when it does not work? |
Posted By: tnplicky
Date Posted: July-28-2016 at 9:34am
I am having the same issue as Paul. I have my '95 for about 10 years. 875 hours total. This is the first year I have had this particular "heat soak / worn out HHP" starting problem. Last year I had a different starting issue that ended up being the relay, but I swapped out the LPP at that time as well due to throwing parts at the problem (sorry Pete, I was on vacation at the time and was desperate). My HHP is hot to the touch too. |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-29-2016 at 12:40am
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Could a pump like this be wired in? http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/159001/10002/-1 Hi-Pressure Inline Fuel Pump•67 GPH @ 43.5 PSI 13.5V •Approx. 5" L x 2-1/2" Dia. •3/8" Male Hose Barb Inlet/Outlet Made in the USA Includes: •(2) Cushioned Mounting Clamps •Hardware Notice the ends are both threaded metal connections. Looking at Trevor's post July 26th the top of the HPP has two pressure lines and a feed line at bottom of the pump. I do not know the purpose for 2 pressure lines, pressure is normally regulated by the pressure regulator. Hydraulic hose shops could fab a hose as could many Truck Shops ( 18 Wheeler Shops ). The pump shown has plenty of pressure and flow and threaded fittings with an all metal case, the black is an insulator to help quiet the pump. Automotive High Pressure systems have a vacuum operated system that boosts pump pressure when you open the throttle all the way to offset the vacuum loss. When you are in cruise mode this vacuum induced pressure bump is taken away. Boats are never in a high vacuum situation because a prop is always loaded. I suspect this is the reason for two feed lines but we need to know more. All your engine looks for is fuel at the correct pressure. If one of these could be hooked up with some minor changes a future replacement would be easy. I did not spend a lot of time searching but I have yet to find one that feeds with two pressure ports and one inlet. All I know of are flow through designs which run very cool. with one inlet and one outlet. Mark |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-29-2016 at 11:19am
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Mark The two ports are actually the bottom of the pump. The straight in one is the feed in the angled one is a bypass of some sort that directs unused fuel across the back of the motor to the tee fitting that comes from the fuel pressure regulator and back to the tank. I'm assuming the bypass port is there to allow extra fuel not needed for the injectors to help cool the pump that is purely a guess as I have not found any info on the workings of this pump. That extra port is the one reason why I'm not sure that a standard inline HPP would work or not. In my search I did find the exact Carter LPP at Jegs for about $50 less than marine suppliers. |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-29-2016 at 3:24pm
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If I understand this now correctly. The return line in this system is dumping fuel into the inlet of the HighPressure Pump through the second connection at the bottom of the pump. If this is the layout this could be the issue. Normal electric fuel pumps receive fuel from the tank only. The return line is separate and returns the fuel from the fuel pressure regulator direct to the fuel tank, a separate fuel run all the way to the tank. It is usually smaller in diameter than the supply line. If PCM decided it was OK to return the hot fuel from the fuel rail to your high pressure pump to be pressurized again and pushed into the fuel rail again feeding your fuel injectors you might be seeing a heat sink issue and the fuel is vaporizing causing vapor lock. My 95 would have the same system but I can't look at it right now. My garage is tied up with another short term project on my truck, new ball joints and the boat is temporarily covered with a tarp outside. I don't wish to untie for this check. This is the only Electric Fuel Pump I have seen that uses a Closed Loop system for the fuel return. In the 90's I went through a week long Carter Fuel Training class to learn Electric Fuel Pump technology. I have seen most Automotive and Marine set ups. I think we should create a solution for this. The pumps will last longer also. |
Posted By: TrevorB
Date Posted: July-29-2016 at 3:40pm
The third connection on the HPP is t"ed into the return line from the pressure regulator on the fuel rail. Here is a picture of the fuel system that I removed. The blue connection was from the LPP. The two connections on the top went to the fuel rails, supply on the left return on the right. The t connection that is cut off had a 3/8 rubber hose to the tank return------------- 1995 SNOB GT-40 |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-29-2016 at 4:10pm
| Thanks for the picture Trevor |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-29-2016 at 4:55pm
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Gun Driver and Trevor, thanks for the pictures and shared information. What I can share if from experience, not from a Marine engineers opinion. Please keep in mind that this was the PCM company's first attempt at fuel injection so maybe they did not have the system worked out quite right? I own one also a 95 GT 40 so I mention this as a participant. The GT 40 Fuel Injection was and is a proven part to be reliable and give very good response so they chose a good system but the fuel feed is not ideal. If this was mine, and mine will probably go out some day also I would change the design. I would eliminate the second fuel inlet at the pump bottom. You don't want hot fuel entering the system. I would take the fuel return line from the Pressure regulator on the Fuel Rail and return that to the fuel tank direct. I hope the tank has a return line built in. You must use Marine Fuel line Approved hose is very expensive but it is not an option to use automotive. A hard line is an option also but boats normally use Marine approved rubber lines in the bottom of the boat. Now fuel is supplied direct to the engine from the tank with less pre heating involved. The second issue is the high pressure pump is mounted very close to the engine block and exhaust manifold where there are heat sources. Normally the high pressure pump is mounted inside the fuel tank so it is always in cool fuel. Maybe add a metal heat shield between the pump and the exhaust. The in line pump like the one from Jegs is normally mounted as close as possible to the fuel tank but mounted on the frame rail. Again cooler than mounted on the engine block next to the exhaust manifold. Your thoughts? I can say the engine does not care where it's fuel comes from as long as a constant source is applied. Remember this is a boat so do any changes safely and well thought out. |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-29-2016 at 4:58pm
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Another thought, any chance these boats lost an impeller prior to this issue? If impeller chunks are blocking some of your exhaust coolant on that side it may be exposing your pump to more heat than normal? Just a thought. |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-29-2016 at 10:12pm
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Mark, after reading your post I thought maybe I was screwed up and as I thought about it the hot fuel returning made sense. So I did some more investigating I disconnected the cross over line from the return tee plugged the Tee and put the cross over line in a jug and as I thought it pushes fuel out not in. So my thought of the pump receiving extra fuel for cooling and sending it across to the return is still plausible. My other theory of the pump sending the fuel across to the return when hot instead of priming the rail still has to be tested and I can't do that until Monday because I have to get a special fitting from a hydraulic firm near me to plug the bottom of the pump or the end of the line. As for the inline HPP you posted I may explore that route. I could move the LPP off the motor, mount it on the stringer back towards the tank and then mount the inline HPP on the stringer after that and have a flexible fuel line made using braided line to go up to the fuel rail. Then both pumps will be away from the heat under the motor cover. |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-29-2016 at 11:08pm
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The design of the low pressure pump gives it plenty of power to pull the fuel from the tank to your engine mount and then to supply the High Pressure Pump. You can move it to the tank area if you wish but I think that risks putting it under water if your bilge fills and that would be bad and could happen any time in a boat. We need to think more about what PCM thought when they installed the second line in that pump. I can't think of a reason for it to exist? No automotive applications use that system so it must be something they think is important to a marine application. Does it feed the Fuel Rail before or after the pressure regulator? |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-29-2016 at 11:20pm
I would like to add Mark that it is my understanding from PCM that the low pressure pump was added later. My guess was to help eliminate problems that were happening in the real world maybe a heat soak problem? Does your 95 have the same no FCC system? I had talked to one of their reps at a boat show, he was involved in adding pumps, he remembers how hard it was to do crawling around in the boat  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-30-2016 at 7:25pm
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OK, I took my cover off and got pictures of my 95. I also looked at the Fuel system. I don't like it at all. The return line that should feed to the fuel tank does not. The return line dumps into the second port on the High Pressure Pump. If it could be modified to dump the return into the tank the system would run cooler by far. I could see this design having failure issues. There has to be a valve in the current HPP to receive the return fuel from the pressure regulator and not let pressure from the pump shoot back at the pressure regulator. Silly system. PCM should have got some advice prior to doing this in my opinion. Which is not worth much. If your HPP is bad it would be possible to build a T out of brass couplings that bolt together and use the new Fuel Pump like the one available at JEGS in the pictures and plumb the return line direct into the fuel supply line and then into the High Pressure pump. It would function the same as the factory Nautique system. If it lasts 10 years that would be great and easier than routing a new return line to the tank directly. A couple photo's of mine and the newly installed Timmy T. Thanks for that Tim. Mine is 1' not 3/4 in the 95.     
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Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-31-2016 at 12:50am
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No The angled port out of the bottom of the HPP through the stainless line is a return line, extra fuel not used by the HPP crosses over the rear of the motor and into the return line then back to the tank. My guess is that the extra fuel is used to cool the pump then returns to the tank. My theory is that when the HPP overheats it's sending the fuel to the return through that stainless line instead of pressurizing the rail. I have disconnected that line from the return Tee and plugged the tee fitting and the pump port to test this theory but as of today have not the chance to maybe tomorrow. |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-31-2016 at 3:41am
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Paul, doing it the way you plan will make the fuel pump dead head. Your fuel pressure will jump to the max the pump can attain. Might be 50+. You have to have a return line. Maybe yours has a second line to the tank. I did not find one on mine. It would be pretty obvious. I think they knew a return was needed and thought what the heck, put it back in the line feeding the HPP. Sounds good until something gets hot. Looking at the fittings used they are good quality but they were purchased from a speed shop type supplier not from an high volume OEM type supplier. They would all be the same color. Gold. The reds and blue fittings are common aftermarket fitting where Bling is needed. |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-31-2016 at 12:46pm
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Your not understanding the system set up. There is a return line coming from the starboard rail (looking from the rear forward) through the pressure regulator back to the tank. (Yours has one too it's right behind the blower hose) you can see the PR right in front of the breakers in your last picture. Follow the line out the bottom of the small silver canister (PR) vacuum hose on top return line on the bottom. If you look at the picture Trevor posted of the parts he removed, the lines on the right are the return to the tank line he cut the rubber line that goes to the tank on an angle The braided line that comes from the bottom of the pump across to the return Tee is what I'm plugging. That line returns "EXTRA" fuel that the pump doesn't use for the rail and returns it to the return line at the Tee. My theory is that when the pump heats up and when the motor is shut off the fuel is returning ( siphoning) from the pump and rail to the tank out the sliver braiided line creating the air lock. |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-31-2016 at 1:36pm
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I put my head down and looked yesterday and did not see a return fuel hose, only the feed hose was visible. On the driver side I only saw the steering cable. If the return line is there that is good and it should be there. Maybe some member here can comment on the need for the second line feeding the fuel pump. The new fuels available with a grain mix are much more prone to have fuel vapor lock issues. than petroleum based gasoline. The Fuel rail pressure regulator receives fuel at whatever the pump puts out, could be 47 to 60 PSI, it bleeds off pressure to keep the constant 39 required in this engine. The constant Fuel Pressure lets them predict how much each injector will spray and they tune from that. If fuel pressure drops the injectors won't spray right and if pressure goes up you feed more fuel than planned. The excess fuel bled off goes to the tank and the extra flow keeps the fuel rail cool and helps avoid any hot fuel issues. When I get time I will trace my fuel return line all the way from the rail to its destination. |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-31-2016 at 2:25pm
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Pressure regulator works in conjunction with vacuum. At idle the injectors need less fuel to meet the fuel/air ratio set by the ECA. When the engine is started and at idle fuel pressure will drop from the 39+/- 3 Key on engine off to 31+/-3 as there is more vacuum closing the passage to the rail returning un-needed fuel to the tank. As throttle increases less vacuum causes the fuel pressure to overcome spring pressure, regulator opens allowing more fuel/pressure into the rail. As throttle is increased to WOT fuel pressure overcomes spring pressure even more allowing more fuel to rail pressure increases back up to 39+/- 3 |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-31-2016 at 4:47pm
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Exactly correct. Knowing all that why the return line to the pump if yours has a return to the tank. I can't think of any reasonable answer to that question or why PCM thought it was a good idea. You turn the key, Pumps kick on, system pressurizes and its ready to go. I see not reason for the second return. I would block the second return to the pump and see if your start up hot issue goes away. I believe that is your plan and your waiting on fittings. I think it will help with or without a new pump install. |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-31-2016 at 11:32pm
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Mark the extra port out of the bottom of the pump "RETURNS" unused fuel from in the HPP to the return line THROUGH the braided line to the return line on the drivers then back to the tank. And yes yours has one. I did find out today that it is necessary to have that because when I plugged it I ruptured the internal seal and the pump leaked out the top. So my theory of the pump syphoning out that line back to the tank is still to be tested. I have a fitting made up to run the braided return line into the feed line before the LPP that way it should not be able to syphon out due to the anti syphon valve keeping it from back draining to the tank. |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: August-01-2016 at 3:30am
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I did a search for regulations on Marine Fuel Lines. This is interesting and odd but explains what they attempted to do with the pump design on the GT40 system. 15. Fuel pumps on a marine engine must be designed to not leak fuel into the boat. Many are double diaphragm. Today most engines have electric fuel pumps. The pump must be mounted on the engine or within 12 inches of the engine. This minimizes the amount of fuel line that is under pressure. It also means that unlike newer cars the line from the tank to the engine is under negative pressure. In other words, the fuel is sucked to the pump rather than pushed to the pump. That way if there is a leak the engine just starves for fuel and stops. The fuel pump must be fire resistant. 16. Fuel lines from the pump to the carburetor must be metal or USCG Type A marine fuel hose. This hose is fire resistant. The hose from the tank to the pump can be USCG Type A or B. Type B is not fire resistant and is hard to find. 17. Fuel filters can not leak into the boat either and must be fire resistant. 18. Fuel tanks must also be fire resistant and pass a 3 PSI pressure test. Today most fuel tanks on gasoline powered boats are aluminum or plastic (Polyethylene). Both must pass all the requirements of the Coast Guard. Other materials are not prohibited but need to be built to specific standards. The tanks must not be integral with the hull. 19. The fill and vent hose can be USCG type B hose but again it's hard to find. You can use Type A. Also on cars fuel tanks and the whole fuel system are closed and under slight pressure. On boats this is unsafe. If a leak developed anywhere in the system it would literally empty the entire contents of the fuel tank into the bilge of the boat. So boat fuel systems are vented to the atmosphere to keep them at atmospheric pressure. Since January 2011 the rules have changed somewhat due to environmental regulations. Fuel systems are now closed but not allowed to exceed a maximum pressure of 1 psi. This is achieved with a 1 psi pressure relief valve built into the vent line. The system also has a carbon canister to collect and scrub vapors. See Gasoline Fuel Systems http://newboatbuilders.com/pages/fuel.html and Fuel Tanks http://newboatbuilders.com/pages/fuel_tank.html NOTE: GM engines use some of the same parts on both the auto and marine versions. For instance, truck cams are very much the same as cams on boats. However, if it is a fuel injected engine there may be a problem. Most fuel injected auto engines have a pump in the fuel tank that pressurizes the fuel lines. You don't want pressurized lines running through your boat, so you can't have the pump in the tank. On boats the fuel pump is near (within 12 inches) or on the engine and fuel is sucked to the engine rather than pushed. So how do you pressurize the fuel line so the engine will start quickly without having to crank it for several minutes? A time delay on the pump is allowed. By this I mean that on most marine fuel injected engines, when you turn on the ignition the electric pump comes on and pressurizes the short fuel line from the pump to the fuel injection system, it then shuts off until the engine starts, then the pump comes back on. Most marine fuel injected engines do not have a pressurized return line to the tank. They have a built in recirculating tank on the engine, and a gravity feed back to the tank. More Thoughts on Marine Engines |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: August-01-2016 at 12:11pm
| Ha. This explains why keeping the starter engaged a bit longer when experiencing hot start shutdown would get the engine started. |
Posted By: TrevorB
Date Posted: August-02-2016 at 11:31pm
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A link to Indmars replacement. I don't see a return on this pump https://www.bakesonline.com/searchresult.aspx?CategoryID=503&page=3 ------------- 1995 SNOB GT-40 |
Posted By: tnplicky
Date Posted: August-08-2016 at 6:46pm
For what it's worth, I took a stab at some power point engineering and drew up a '95 GT-40 fuel system schematic. If there are errors or additions, let me know.
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Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: August-08-2016 at 9:53pm
| That's it in a nut shell |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: August-08-2016 at 9:58pm
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Enough yacking lets get the old one cut open ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: August-08-2016 at 10:36pm
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Gary, Gun Driver is working on this now. He supplied the picture I post, pictures come from a Master Craft forum if you can believe that. I think we will know soon how a replacement Carter pump is working for Gun Driver. Looking at this photo I can tell you the OE Pump was made by Carter, it is a geroter and turbine pump. The geroter ( gear pump design ) provides steady high pressure but does not prime well so they add the turbine to help it prime better. The intake side of this pump has two intakes. Geroter pumps are sensitive to pumping any dirt, dirt can lock them up so make sure your feed line has a filter on it, a good filter that is less than 20 micron size. The two bottom pump threaded connections are not pressure ports, they are both intake ports. Any pressure in these lines would be provided by the low pressure supply pump also a Carter design. Every Automotive application I know of uses one feed line and one return line. The second feed line to this High pressure pump comes from the Fuel Rail return line after the pressure regulator. The fuel rail return line also has a line that drains back into the gas tank on these boats so I see no reason for the second return line to the High Pressure pump. Can anyone explain why the second return line would exist? If you want to stay similar to the factory an aftermarket pump could be installed and you could add a T in the feed line, metal or brass and threaded to maintain the factory second feed to the intake. ( aftermarket HPP pumps are $70-$135.00 a little cheaper than the OEM design at $650 that is not available ) The problem with this design is that it returns Hot fuel to the intake feed and fuel injection prefers cool fuel at the intake feed. My only idea on this would be to help have constant supply to the HPP even if the boat is involved in rough water and the tank is splashing around and the feed is not constant. Fuel injection demands a constant flow of fuel to work right. This idea is my WAG!  |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: August-08-2016 at 10:59pm
Nice design to show the flow on the GT 40 Fuel Injection. I wish I had your power point ability! One update would be for the 2nd hose from the fuel rail to the High Pressure Pump. This hose can work two ways. Fuel can flow from the Fuel Rail Pressure regulator to the High Pressure pump or it can flow fuel from the HPP to the return line. This hose connects to the High Pressure pump intake port. It will have slight pressure from the Low pressure pump. The low pressure pump does not need this by pass it will regulate its flow to meet the demand at 5-7 lbs pressure. Maybe this by pass keeps the low pressure pump running cooler as a safety feature? WAG #2 |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: August-08-2016 at 11:28pm
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Mark do they or basically any simmiler pump,ie automotive fail is because of bearing failure? I remember at work a truck would get towed in and dropped off. Our mechanic being by himself could not push it in to the bay so he'd take a rubber hammer have one of us turn the key to start it and pound on the bottom of the tank and sure enough they would go. Always seemed that the tanks were just topped up too. Chevys went thru pumps like crazy,Fords went thru oil pans ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: August-08-2016 at 11:33pm
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I talked to a tech at Carter today getting specs on the stock 962 PFI HPP pump so I could compare it to others on the market. He was not 100% about the extra port as they've been NLA for a while but he believed it was to discharge any vapors to help keep the pump from getting vapor lock. If you think we have problems you should go to the MC and Malibu sites there's 73 pages of pump problem/discussion on the MC site alone.  |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: August-09-2016 at 12:51am
Gary the most common issue is dirt and dry starting. The bearings in these are fuel lubricated so any dry start will toast the pump. Engineering says the bearings/bushings will be damaged within 20 seconds on a dry start. Dry starts happen when cars are parked on a side hill, it does not have to be much slope if the car is low on gas. Dirt contamination will damage the pump as it passes through. Any dirt will start wearing on the bushings because it all flows past the moving parts as it is pressurized. I don't mind driving my car all the way to near empty when on the road if I know exactly when I will get gas. If I am heading home I fill up if I am below 1/4 tank to avoid this damage. The third most common issue causing pump failure is bad connections to the battery. The pumps need 12 V plus to operate well. If the ground is bad or the power source is corroded the pump may only see 7 V and it will burn up. Sometimes the pump has 12V when not running but when the load hits it the power source can drop off considerably. If the pump is noisy, it is toast. These are the ones that will respond to a good tap with the rubber hammer normally. This band aid usually only works till you shut it off next time. Damaged bushings make them noisy. Tolerances are pretty tight so damaged parts can start rubbing on other parts making even more noise. They usually fail over time, slowly getting louder till they lock up unless you run them dry when the process goes pretty fast. |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: August-09-2016 at 2:05am
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Once again NO!!! Below is a post from the MC site where they were under the same assumption. The post is the same information I was told and saw when I disconnected the braided hose from the return line to the tank and turned on the pumps. The drawing is correct!!! Took the pump off my 1998 Maristar and talked to a tech at my local mastercraft dealer. There is one inlet and two outlets to these pumps. It appears at first glance that there are two inlets but the angled port (at the bottom) returns air/bubbles in the line to the tank.There is a check valve in this port to keep the pump from drawing air during operation. |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: August-09-2016 at 5:40am
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Gun Driver, so far I have not seen a air separating check valve. Not in fuel or even brake ABS systems. If there was such a valve it would be really popular. You could eliminate bleeding brakes. The pressure releaf valve on the fuel rail can bleed off a lot of fuel. At times that bleed off may be at 20 psi. Headed back to the tank.. I still scratch my head why this second line exists. I think we can figure it out. |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: August-09-2016 at 12:47pm
| Maybe it was one of those "good idea bad plan" and never really worked right from the get go hence the reason they are NLA. |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: August-09-2016 at 1:14pm
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I am of the thinking that when one replaces the fuel filter and does not fully fill the container with fuel and bleed the air that is trapped--there may be a possibility that LPP's are not failed but are being replaced needlessly. I'm saying this because when I had a Nautiqie dealer replace my fuel filter, that's when all my troubles with starting erupted. I must have bled the schrader a dozen times before deciding to replace the LPP due to start and die issues I attributed to the LPP. Perhaps if I'd simply removed the FCT housing and filled it with fuel, or kept bleeding the trapped air from the valve, I'd have not needed a new LPP at only 500 hours of engine time. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: August-09-2016 at 1:15pm
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I don't know about the bad plan part, I saw in some of those threads that just about a year ago or so that rock auto was closing out those pumps for around 20 bucks. 60 bucks and you'd be set for life. What I'm not happy with is the planned obsolescence, PCM has no support of these complex proprietary systems. Someday we will just have to trade in every year or two like those on PN ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: August-09-2016 at 1:43pm
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Gary I think those cheap Rockauto pumps were the lower pressure 25psi for the protect type systems. I know the 962 could be had a lot cheaper (when they were available) through auto parts stores than what the marine sites were selling them for but I don't think they were that cheap. |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: August-09-2016 at 1:52pm
| Gary--someday we will All have stroker 383 Boss Pro engines with quick fuel carbs! |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: August-09-2016 at 8:22pm
Why such a small one 
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Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: August-10-2016 at 5:18am
Note on the LOW PRESSURE PUMP, the low pressure pump design is a rotary Vane pump. The pump is not nearly as sensitive to fuel starvation as the High Pressure pump. That design can pull fuel from your tank really well normally. This design is so popular in Motor Homes and many Diesel trucks that it won't be going obsolete any time soon. |
Posted By: skiwedowee
Date Posted: October-07-2017 at 10:50pm
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Just posting my experience with this issue. 1995 gt-40 nautique. Problem was intermittent and became worse with time/temperature change. Checked codes, indicated a clogged injector/s...had this problem a few years back and had injectors cleaned. Now I think maybe a weak fuel pump was the culprit? Doesn't matter...boat runs great now. My solution to the discontinued dual inlet pump. Carter p-61171 marine pump... summit, jegs, rock auto....wherever. The inlet thread size is 5/8-18 female ....needs to connect to a an6 female. summit number is fra-491956. Outlet metal line can be bent by hand to connect back with the fuel rail...total cost is less than 100 dollars. Cap the stainless line after removal at right side of engine. Don't know why some say to leave it and don't know why anyone would fabricate a fuel cell. for 600 dollars. Hope that helps someone as you guys have helped me. |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: October-07-2017 at 11:40pm
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Yes I did this a year ago but did not have enough test time on it to feel 100% on recommending to everyone. Since you seem to feel it's a good fix can you post some pics. Hardest part is finding the 5/8x 18 reducer/bushing. |
Posted By: skiwedowee
Date Posted: October-07-2017 at 11:54pm
| Sure, ill get some posted....I haven't tested it much either but from the research that I've done, I don't foresee any problems. The only questionable issue is the removal of the stainless line since CC found the need to install it but since a pump of that design no longer exists there really is no other option. |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: October-08-2017 at 12:07am
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Great thanks Also where did you find the 5/8x18 bushing? I found mine at a local place that makes custom hydraulic lines but I had to cut it down which the basic guy would have troubles doing. |
Posted By: skiwedowee
Date Posted: October-08-2017 at 12:20am
| Summit had it...about 7 dollars....Part number in the post Also on e-bay and many places online....Just had to call Carter and find out what size it was.....You won't find it at hardware stores. I had a few AN fittings laying around....I'm a retired mechanic from Northwest Airlnes. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-08-2017 at 1:23am
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I have stopped for the year on converting mine to the FCC.Turns out that on the v drive boats that the strainer and trans cooler reside in the place that the FCC needs to go. So the oem pumps need to come out from where they are and longer water intake hoses rerouted to where the strainer and cooler will then take their place. Not sure if I need longer hydraulic hoses for the trans either. If I didn't have all the important parts, your way is easier. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: October-08-2017 at 3:14am
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I had full confidence the conversion would work. My factory pump still works so I will not change my set up. The 95 was the first attempt by CC to install this fuel injection system. They did not get it right on the first try. It works well till it fails. Your conversion to the Carter will last till that pump wears out. Don't let it run out of fuel and that will be a very long time. All these pumps are fuel lubricated so running out of gas even once can fry the pump. Glad it worked. ------------- |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: October-08-2017 at 12:06pm
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Mark, 20 years on a pump isn't to bad to me. I'll throw another $75 pump in it and run for another 20. You can do the $800 conversion if you wish. Thanks Scott for the update I thought it would work just didn't have the time to put into testing. I also don't know what you mean about bending the line? If I remember right it fit in exactly like the old one was I think I had to swap some fitting but it was a direct replacement. |
Posted By: AlfaDon
Date Posted: November-26-2017 at 8:39am
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This is a great thread. Thanks for all of the input. I hope it continues when the boats come back out in the spring. I'm converting carb to EFI using an OMC system off of a 5.0 Cobra motor. It has a fuel cooler at the back of the manifold near the fuel pressure regulator. Actually the HPP mounts to the top of the fuel cooler. It appears to be an attempt at not using a return line to the tank, but the excess fuel from the rail and regulator gets dumped into the cooler. The Fuel cooler gets water from the Fresh water inlet right after the water strainer. From what I've seen in manuals, it didn't last very long, so I'm not sure what to expect. I may have missed something in the discussion, but I wonder if the reason a return line wasn't used was because of the regulations about pressurized fuel in the bilge? The return line would have nominal pressure to get it back to the tank. Don |
Posted By: Rkilcoyne
Date Posted: May-17-2018 at 10:43pm
| Has anyone here had a chance to draw any conclusions on using the Carter pump in place of the NLA HPP? |
Posted By: skiwedowee
Date Posted: May-17-2018 at 11:29pm
| Fuel cooler? Why would the fuel need to be cooled? There is an oil cooler beneath my HPP. My 95 gt40 runs better than it ever has since replacing the pump.I believe there are different configurations with the fuel systems around those years but I would call the fuel pump replacement on mine almost a stock part replacement . |
Posted By: Rkilcoyne
Date Posted: May-17-2018 at 11:38pm
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@skiwedowee A couple questions: 1. Does the existing power connector plug directly into this carter pump? 2. Does the existing outlet line tie directly into the outlet on this pump with just a little bending of the line? 3. Anything else needed besides the adapter for the inlet? Thanks! |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: May-18-2018 at 1:18am
Mercury Marine calls it a fuel cooler sounds like it's their version of a PCM FCC. I believe their thinking the fuel cools the pump http://imgbox.com/sLooiw1q" rel="nofollow">  http://imgbox.com/cyxt2gry" rel="nofollow">  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: AlfaDon
Date Posted: May-18-2018 at 1:48am
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I believe there were a lot of problems with Vapor lock from hot fuel after shutting down the engine and trying to restart it. Also because excess hot fuel is returning to the tank. As for the Carter fuel pump, the ones I’m familiar with are like the Airtex and are low pressure. But I’ve also missed a lot of the conversation about replacing the NLA pump. |
Posted By: baitkiller
Date Posted: May-18-2018 at 10:20am
------------- Jesus was a bare-footer............. |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: May-18-2018 at 11:57am
That’s how BRP cools the high pressure pump on the E-Tec motors. The fuel cools the pump. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-18-2018 at 12:55pm
Cool being a relative term, what is the temperature and at what temperature does it harm the pump? What did the Carter training tell you? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: May-18-2018 at 10:39pm
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Pete, the Carter school was dealing with Automotive set ups and they all use a full flow of cool fuel direct from the fuel tank. The return line is also direct to the fuel tank, in automotive these two do not mix. It is always supply and return. The return line from the fuel rail to the high pressure pump may be there to help make sure there is some fuel to lubricate the HPP on start up. The Low pressure pump may take a few seconds to pull the supply fuel from the tank. The HPP needs fuel 100% of the time to avoid a dry start that can harm the pump motor bushings that are fuel lubricated. In automotive the fuel pump is located inside the fuel tank so it never has a dry start condition unless you run very low on fuel. In our boats the Low Pressure Pump is several feet away from the fuel tank so there may be delay while it is sucking fuel from the tank to start supplying fuel to the High Pressure Pump. We have discussed the second return line before but I never thought about the potential dry start before. This might be the answer for why the second line is in the factory set up. The newer FCC fuel pumps on 96 and newer use a reservoir around the pump inlet to provide the HPP with fuel on start to lubricate it and give faster prime speeds. ------------- |
Posted By: Rkilcoyne
Date Posted: May-24-2018 at 4:16pm
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Just wrapped up the install of the FCC Retro kit on my 1995 GT-40. Feel free to ask questions. Not the cheapest route, but runs fantastic. https://youtu.be/w-q-cyoaUAo https://youtu.be/Efwh8R6XH9A ~Rick |
Posted By: gt40KS
Date Posted: May-24-2018 at 4:42pm
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Sounds great - Good job! Here are the direct links for the vids: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-q-cyoaUAo&feature=youtu.be" rel="nofollow - Link 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Efwh8R6XH9A&feature=youtu.be" rel="nofollow - Link 2 ------------- JCCI 1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: AlfaDon
Date Posted: May-24-2018 at 7:33pm
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I'd love to see a write up about how you did the modifications. Pictures are always great too. Don |
Posted By: Rkilcoyne
Date Posted: May-24-2018 at 7:51pm
| After it was all done, I thought the same to myself AlfaDon... I'll work on a doc this weekend. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: May-24-2018 at 9:48pm
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Pretty straight install on a DD I'm sure, it's the v drives that take more work. Strainer and transcooler have to be moved to the other side of the boat in addition to angling the thru hull to that side. Longer intake hose is needed but not sure yet if transcooler hoses are long enough. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: May-25-2018 at 12:05am
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Gary that’s what you get for buying one of those A$$ pushers
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Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: May-25-2018 at 1:07am
I knew many Correct Crafts ran bacerds,too late I realized the whole dang engine is in there bacerds  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Jmattison
Date Posted: August-04-2018 at 6:08pm
| Thinking of doing the same. Are there any pictures? |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: August-04-2018 at 7:28pm
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If mine went out I would not hesitate to install the $60 Carter high pressure pump. If you wish to keep the return line it could be plumbed into the system with a couple fittings. $60 fix vs $500+, fix. Either will get you up and running. The FCC is a better design but my 1995 runs like a top with the early set up intact and I know it would work the same with the $60 Carter installed. ------------- |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: August-05-2018 at 4:16am
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Mark I think Summit or Carter are on to us the pumps are now 96 bucks https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crt-p61171" rel="nofollow - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crt-p61171 |
Posted By: Rkilcoyne
Date Posted: August-05-2018 at 11:57pm
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Some have asked for photos of my FCC install. It's August and I'm happy to say, my Nautique has been running flawlessly -- fuel issues are non-existent. Yes, it was expensive project, but it was also quite effective. Here are some photos... Looks like they were rotated from portrait when uploading. Sorry about that -- download and rotate.     ~Rick |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: August-06-2018 at 3:25am
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Good Looking Install. ------------- |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: August-06-2018 at 3:27am
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Dang, $96 now instead of 5-600. I would still install the Carter and be done with it even though I recognize the ECC is a better design. If the boat works as intended it is good. ------------- |
Posted By: AlfaDon
Date Posted: August-06-2018 at 5:44am
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Actually they’re up to $750 from what I see. Thanks for the pics. It does look nice and clean. Where did you buy yours? I thought the 95-96 GT40’s were having trouble with heat soak and having the pump submerged in fuel helped with that issue. Also it gave a place for the hot fuel from the return line to cool down. Are there any models that return the fuel to the tank, or does that go against the pressurized fuel too far from the engine rule? |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-06-2018 at 11:28am
Rick, was this a hot re-start issue that you were having before? Just wondering because I'll log it in the GT-40 thread as a fix. |
Posted By: Rkilcoyne
Date Posted: August-06-2018 at 11:36am
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I personally didn't have the hot-start issue, but I've seen many who have and this was a fix (albeit more expensive than those above that just replaced the stock HPP). The boat was new-to-me this Spring, and it was clear that the HPP wasn't functioning properly. I figured I'd go for the full fix and nip this issue in the bud with the FCC that's been installed on every PCM engine since 1997. |
Posted By: CA Jaybob
Date Posted: May-02-2019 at 12:21am
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Good Evening, I have a 95 sport GT40 and I need to replace the HP fuel pump, which is not available. PCM sells a conversion kit for $1100, yet it has no instructions and requires fabrication. My pump looks just like the one you refer to but it does have that 2nd outlet on the bottom. Do you think that I can just T off of the top of this pump to feed both the left and right sides. Do you know anyone that has done this? Thanks |
Posted By: Rkilcoyne
Date Posted: May-02-2019 at 12:36am
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I went with the retro which can be purchased from nautiqueparts.com: https://www.nautiqueparts.com/product/retro-fcc-kit/ There have been volumes written about replacing the HPP on these forums. In the end, the PCM fuel control cell is the best way to go as it ensures a constant flow of fuel to the injectors and avoids the common issue of vapor lock in the old setup. Also, while this kit didn't come with much in the way of instructions (none), it did not require any fabrication whatsoever other than replacing one of the riser hoses to accommodate the FCC. The whole job was done in a day and the boat is running like a dream ever since. ~Rick |