Starter problem?
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=39711
Printed Date: October-07-2024 at 6:23am
Topic: Starter problem?
Posted By: Mille1sj
Subject: Starter problem?
Date Posted: August-18-2016 at 2:29am
|
Hello everyone, I took our 77 Ski Tique out yesterday, when I tried to restart he engine, the starter continued to turn, even when I shut the boat off and took the key out. It just kept cranking. I thought maybe it was an ignition problem, so I took the ignition out. The starter still keeps cranking, I ended up having to disconnect the battery to make it stop. Has anyone experienced this before? Is it time for a new starter? Any reccomendations on where I should get one or a particular brand? Thanks for the help...again. |
Replies:
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: August-18-2016 at 2:37am
|
It's your starter solinoid, the contacts weld themselves closed,usually caused by using a deep cycle battery. Check your battery make sure it's a starting battery not a deep cycle or a combo deep/starting and get a new solinoid. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-18-2016 at 8:07am
|
Steve, What Gary said but also check you cables and their terminals. They too can cause the low voltage high amperage condition (Ohms law) that trashed your start relay (solenoid). Yes, what type of battery is it? Condition/age? Have it load tested. Test before condemning and just assuming you need a starter. Get the VOM out and run some resistance checks. You listed your occupation as an engineer in your profile so although I understand there are many different types of engineers, I feel you'll understand. Take a look and report back. We always love to hear back if we've helped out. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Mille1sj
Date Posted: August-18-2016 at 12:31pm
|
Thanks for the quick feedback, I actually just put a new battery in the boat, this was the second time I have ran it with this battery. In the past, I was using an Optima N9934/78YEL, commonly known as a Optima Yellow Top. I have been getting just over three years of life out of a these batteries, so I requested something different this time. The guy at the store recommended the NAPA AGM Marine 9834M. I can load test the battery and check the resistance. As far as my background you asked about, I am a Mechanical Engineer for Chrysler my background is axles, transfer cases and hypoid gears, but I do have some basic electrical knowledge. Do you know what the part number is for the solinoid or the starter? I assume at a minimum I will need a new solinoid. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: August-18-2016 at 12:39pm
| Chryslers use solinoids? |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-18-2016 at 12:57pm
"Marine" batteries often wind up being deep cycle. Sounds like that might be the problem right there. |
Mille1sj wrote:Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-18-2016 at 6:33pm
I don't see any mention of what engine he has but in 77 chances are high it's a Ford/PCM/Escort or maybe a OMC. but doubtful it a Chrysler. Yes, Chryslers do have starter relays/solenoids. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Mille1sj
Date Posted: August-19-2016 at 12:00pm
| Sorry, I didn't mention the engine, it is a Ford 302 PCM. |
Posted By: Mille1sj
Date Posted: August-19-2016 at 8:30pm
| Considering that my battery was strictly labeled as a 'marine' battery, not a cranking or deep cycle, I plan to return it and get a different one. What battery do you guys recommend using. Like I said above, I used the Optima Yellow Top for the last 7 or 8 years, but it seems that every 3-4 years I need a new one. Is it normal to replace it that often? What do you guys use? I'm not too worried about the cost if the battery is good, the Optima's were $225, worked great, until they didn't. |
Posted By: flyweed
Date Posted: August-19-2016 at 8:50pm
|
I have the Optima Blue Top on my 1990 Four Winns I/O and plan on putting one in my S.N this fall. I've had that battery in my Four Winns for over 10 years now, and still going strong ------------- '93 Ski Nautique NWZ, Air Boom Tower Drink Tonight..for tomorrow We Ride! |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-20-2016 at 11:35am
|
I have an Everstart Maxx, group 65 N from Walmart. It was recommended by this forum and I'm on my 5th summer with it. Group 65N is the size that fits in most Ski Nautique battery boxes. It may fit in yours too, you just want to double check the dimensions. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-20-2016 at 12:18pm
Can't go wrong with this battery!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-20-2016 at 1:38pm
Pete It's becoming obvious that you've gone thru some life changes recently  Working at Home Depot and now you're agreeing with a WalMart battery recommendation What's next? Are you gonna become Pertronix Pete ? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-20-2016 at 2:25pm
|
Ken, Notice I did not say the "M" word!!  BTW, the X55 battery came from Walmart.  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Mille1sj
Date Posted: August-20-2016 at 3:09pm
|
I will give that battery a try, after contacting the manufacturer of the "new" battery I just installed, it seems to be a combination battery from what they say, deep cycle/cranking. I did pull the starter out today. The only part number I can find on it is e1af-11131-ba. I have found a few of these online for prices ranging from $65-$200. Any particular brands I should stay away from or specific sites that carry better parts? There are a few places around here that rebuild them as well, but wasn't sure if its worth doing that. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: August-20-2016 at 3:56pm
|
I happen to live in an area where there are several rebuilders. The problems come in when buying new and not realizing the engine is a reverse rotation requiring a reverse rotation marine starter. Another problem that can come up,but not in your case,is if you have an unusual engine conversion like a Holman Moody. Todays new starters have too long a nose and will not fit so rebuilding in either case would be a better choice. You will have to check to see price differences and if they can get it back to you in a reasonable time.to see what would be best for you. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-20-2016 at 4:00pm
Steve, I'm curious as to what testing you did to determine the starter is bad? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: August-20-2016 at 4:31pm
Lets be thankful for a moment and reflect what could have been if he'd had gotten a job at Autozone or MasterCraft   ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Mille1sj
Date Posted: August-20-2016 at 7:57pm
I haven't tested the starter yet. I plan on taking it my dads auto repair shop on Monday to see what we can findout. I took the ignition apart to comfirm that it wasn't the problem. Basically just narrowed it down to the starter with assistance of others on the site. I'm thinking I should be able to apply power to it and see if it engages. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-20-2016 at 8:06pm
|
Steve, How did the start relay test? Your first post was regarding the starter staying engaged.
I feel you are chasing the wrong problem. What ignition part did you check? The key switch making sure it wasn't stuck in the start position sending power back to the start relay coil? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Mille1sj
Date Posted: August-20-2016 at 8:31pm
| I actually forgot to check the solinoid. How can I actually test it to confirm. When they said starter solinoid, I was thinking internal components to the starter. Solinoids are obviously much less expensive. Is that something I can get from napa or an autozone? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-20-2016 at 8:42pm
|
Steve, You mentioned you know some basic electrics so if you have a VOM (volt Ohm meter), check to see if the contacts are welded together as Gary first mentioned. They will be where the battery cable is attached to the solenoid and then the other cable to the starter itself. Sometimes the contacts will open after being welded closed. If so, a resistance check is needed to determine the condition of the contacts. Disconnect the cable to the starter. Engage the coil of the solenoid by turning the key switch to the start position. Ohm across the main terminals. If the contacts are good, you should get a near zero ohm reading. Report back to what you find. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-20-2016 at 8:44pm
Again, what did you check with the ignition? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Mille1sj
Date Posted: August-20-2016 at 8:57pm
| To check the ignition, I just disconnected it. when I hooked the battery back up, the starter continued to crank. I thought since I was able to bypass the ignition, I could rule out it being stuck in the on position. When you originally mentioned the starter solenoid, I was thinking parts internal to the starter, I wasn't aware that this engine had a separate solenoid. That should be my next logical step working my way back to the starter. Its been raining here for the last few hours, so I haven't been back out to the boat. Worst case, ill check the resistance tomorrow morning and let you know what I find. If I am getting too much resistance, is the solenoid available at a local auto parts store (NAPA, Auto Zone, etc.)? Thanks again for all of the feedback. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-20-2016 at 9:58pm
|
Steve, I assume when you say you disconnected the ignition, you mean the ignition key switch correct? If so and when you connected the battery back up and the starter engaged, then yes, the start relay contacts are still welded together. Do check the contacts anyway. Did you ever check the battery cables and terminals as suggested? As mentioned, they too can be a source of high resistance causing a low voltage high amperage condition. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Mille1sj
Date Posted: August-20-2016 at 10:51pm
| I did check the battery cables and terminals. I did not find any issues with them. at either end. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-21-2016 at 7:09am
And you use one of these to make sure you have a good connection correct?  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Mille1sj
Date Posted: August-21-2016 at 8:00am
| I do have a terminal cleaner similar to that. I clean the connections at the start of each season. I will run the brush through again, I keep the connections clean. |
Posted By: Mille1sj
Date Posted: August-21-2016 at 3:46pm
|
I checked the resistance on the starter solenoid, with the key in the on position, one click to the right, I do not get a reading, when I turn the key, as if I were starting the boat, I get about 18 ohms. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-21-2016 at 8:13pm
Time for a new starter relay. I do suggest getting one that's "marine" since they are ignition protected. NP (link above) or Skidim would be good sources. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |