TimmyT, Radio, etc INSTALL
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=39884
Printed Date: November-16-2024 at 11:22am
Topic: TimmyT, Radio, etc INSTALL
Posted By: flyweed
Subject: TimmyT, Radio, etc INSTALL
Date Posted: September-08-2016 at 6:32pm
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Hey guys, well with my boat here at home and in my garage, I thought I'd start in on some things I have waited for "the fall" to do. 1. Got Timmy T installed in the hose just after the raw water filter.  2. got a new head unit installed in the glove box, and 4 new speakers installed. Here is one of the speakers:  3. Now here is where I need to do some work. As you can see from the next two photos, my battery(at the battery is reading a bit over 13v. My Dash board Voltmeter is reading just over 8v. ?????? Is this a "Run a new, heavier ground wire issue?"   ------------- '93 Ski Nautique NWZ, Air Boom Tower Drink Tonight..for tomorrow We Ride! |
Replies:
Posted By: flyweed
Date Posted: September-08-2016 at 6:41pm
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Oh yeah....I THINK I found the main "Ground" wire that runs from engine to the dash. YEAH RED! Guess the whomever ran this ground wire didn't have any black. Anyway, is THIS the correct place for the ground wire? It's on top of some type of "Brass" fitting on the top, front of the engine. PIC: (arrow pointing to "ground")  ------------- '93 Ski Nautique NWZ, Air Boom Tower Drink Tonight..for tomorrow We Ride! |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-08-2016 at 6:58pm
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Dan, Trace that red wire back and see where it goes. The picture isn't very clear as to what the "brass fitting" the red is connected to. It looks more like the temp sender than a ground. Regarding the volt meter, clean all your connections. Even with under sized wire, you should not be seeing a 5.2 voltage drop. Measure the volts directly at the back of the gauge. Yes, do upsize both the dash + feed and the ground feed. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: flyweed
Date Posted: September-08-2016 at 7:06pm
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Oops...sorry, my bad..that wire IS indeed the temp sender...I took a picture of the wrong thing. I found the "ground nut" back near the 50amp breaker..I don't see ANY ground wire running up to the front dash. So that may be a good reason why such a low reading. Anyway, I am going to lift up the dash tonight and take a reading directly at the back of the voltmeter gauge to see what reading I have there. ------------- '93 Ski Nautique NWZ, Air Boom Tower Drink Tonight..for tomorrow We Ride! |
Posted By: flyweed
Date Posted: September-08-2016 at 7:43pm
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Hey Pete Ok, just pulled the screws for the dash and lifted it away. Man, what a rats nest!! Anyway, I cleaned the contacts on the dash voltmeter, charged my battery full. and just retested. The battery fully charged is 13.1v.....the dash voltmeter now reads 10.1volts so still reading 3v lower. I also found the "ground" at the engine, now where the HECK is the other end behind the dash??? Pics Engine Ground:  Where is ground behind dash??  ------------- '93 Ski Nautique NWZ, Air Boom Tower Drink Tonight..for tomorrow We Ride! |
Posted By: desertskier
Date Posted: September-08-2016 at 7:59pm
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You won't find a grounding point behind the dash. The ground wire is in the main harness and passes through the black connector. You should see a connection where some of the instrument grounds are tied together. Since you have all winter to work on this it would be a good idea to install a buss bar. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21901&PN=2&title=added-new-dash-ground-to-93-with-pics" rel="nofollow - Added New Dash Ground to 93 with Pics |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: September-08-2016 at 9:19pm
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If you just want to test out the lack of ground theory, take a wire and run it from either a clean engine grounding spot or directly to the negative battery terminal, and clip it into any place you see a gauge ground or group of grounds under the dash. See if that bumps the voltmeter at the dash up at all. I keep a long 12 gauge wire with alligator clips at both ends for testing stuff like this. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: flyweed
Date Posted: September-08-2016 at 9:28pm
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that's a great idea...since the battery is all of about 3 feet away from the dash, a "jumper" would be easy to run from the NEG side of the battery to the ground/neg side of a gauge. ------------- '93 Ski Nautique NWZ, Air Boom Tower Drink Tonight..for tomorrow We Ride! |
Posted By: flyweed
Date Posted: September-08-2016 at 10:46pm
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Ok, I made up a 5 foot jumper (out of 14 gauge stranded) it's the only thing I had on hand at the moment. I jumpered straight from the Neg. of the battery, to the black/ground on the dash mounted voltmeter. Battery was reading 13V, and the jumper did help a bit..my dash voltmeter was reading 11.5V Any thoughts?? ------------- '93 Ski Nautique NWZ, Air Boom Tower Drink Tonight..for tomorrow We Ride! |
Posted By: planejob
Date Posted: September-08-2016 at 11:24pm
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the resistor inside your voltmeter could very likely be flaking out. Hook your handheld multimeter to the connections on the back of the dash-mounted voltmeter and check your numbers. That will clearly identify if the issue is in your wires or in your dash meter. |
Posted By: flyweed
Date Posted: September-08-2016 at 11:35pm
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I will give that a try tomorrow!! Thanks ------------- '93 Ski Nautique NWZ, Air Boom Tower Drink Tonight..for tomorrow We Ride! |
Posted By: flyweed
Date Posted: September-09-2016 at 12:21am
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Ok, had a couple beers, and got a little second wind. So I went out and put my voltmeter on the back of the dash voltmeter, and turned on the ignition breaker...I get a reading of 10.5v on my digital meter. So obviously a new ground is needed. Also, I checked the volts at the Key switch, and it too was reading around 10.5V Now, here is my question. Where does a constant +12v come in? I thought the key switch had one of the wires that constantly had 12 volts to it...I measured all contacts on the key switch with the ignition breaker OFF, and I didn't get a reading on red, red/white or purple. I am just looking for a constant 12v power connection for my "memory" in my new head unit. ------------- '93 Ski Nautique NWZ, Air Boom Tower Drink Tonight..for tomorrow We Ride! |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: September-09-2016 at 12:49am
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What voltage do you have at the lead on the ignition breaker? I assume 10.5 like the rest of the dash. With nothing running, no electrical draw beyond maybe some gauge lights, having 13 volts at the battery and 10.5 at the dash is likely a really corroded connection on your positive feed, maybe even a break in the wire. Do the same thing I suggested on the ground on the positive side, run the jumper wire to the dash and see if that corrects your dash voltage. If so you know to replace your dash feed, which you should anyway with a larger feed. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: flyweed
Date Posted: September-09-2016 at 1:08am
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I appreciate all of your help troubleshooting with me So, let me make sure I got this right. You want me to test the "ground" side of the ignition breaker?? or the positive side? so I run my jumper wire from the positive side of the battery, to the positive side of the ignition breaker? I have not checked the voltage yet at the actual ignition breaker. Just at the key switch and at the dash voltmeter. ------------- '93 Ski Nautique NWZ, Air Boom Tower Drink Tonight..for tomorrow We Ride! |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: September-09-2016 at 1:27am
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I'm assuming you'll have the same 10.5 at the ignition breaker, but with electrical stuff it's worth testing and not assuming. So use your multimeter to test the voltage at the breaker feed wire to make sure it's not different from the rest of the dash. Then run a positive jumper from the battery or the main 60 amp breaker on the back of the engine to the ignition breaker. Since that breaker feeds all dash power it should correct your voltage everywhere in the dash. One caution - you want that jumper to go to the feed side of the ignition breaker - that way the breaker is protecting the dash from too much current. Don't feed the dash side of the breaker with the jumper as you'll be sending power un-fused to the dash. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: flyweed
Date Posted: September-09-2016 at 1:33am
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the feed side is the side that the large red wire goes into the breaker, correct?? I see a large red wire coming out of the wiring bundle and into the ignition breaker. ------------- '93 Ski Nautique NWZ, Air Boom Tower Drink Tonight..for tomorrow We Ride! |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: September-09-2016 at 1:46am
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Dan, makes me nervous to answer without knowing quite what you are seeing. Maybe someone else will chime in, or could you post a picture of what you are describing. By the way, what is your boat? ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: flyweed
Date Posted: September-09-2016 at 10:05am
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LOL..sorry it was getting late, and I finally just had to go to bed! Anyway, my boat is a 1993 SN. It's hard to put into words what I am looking at. Anyway, the Ignition Breaker has "two" wires..one is the "hot" wire from the 50amp engine fuse, correct? then the OTHER side of the Ignition breaker is the "switched" wired..you want me to jumper from the POS side of my battery, directly to the "in" or "hot" side of the ignition breaker, correct? This will give me hot power directly from the battery to the ignition breaker, then I can test volts coming out of the ignition breaker to see if they are same as the battery volts. ------------- '93 Ski Nautique NWZ, Air Boom Tower Drink Tonight..for tomorrow We Ride! |
Posted By: desertskier
Date Posted: September-09-2016 at 12:16pm
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You can measure the voltage at the 50 amp breaker (either side - no such thing as the ground side on these breakers). It should be very close to battery voltage. After that it is routed through the harness up to the ignition breaker on the dash. Voltage should be the same at the 50 amp breaker and the ignition breaker. If not then you have to much loss through the harness. This is common with these boats. I added a 10 gauge wire in parallel with the harness. I connected one end to the 50 amp breaker output (so it is still protected) and ran it up through the hull to the dash and to the input of the ignition breaker. You could also try disconnecting and cleaning the black rubber connectors, both engine and dash. Use rubbing alcohol or contact cleaner and a small brush or something that you can clean out the sockets with. Sometimes just cycling the connector a few times will clean it up also. Also, when making voltage measurements attach the negative lead to the engine or battery ground/negative and don't move it between measurements. The reading will be different if the ground has a problem. |
Posted By: flyweed
Date Posted: September-09-2016 at 1:09pm
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Thanks again. Looks like we are narrowing this down! I measured voltage at the 50 amp breaker on the engine and it's reading 13.0V So there is NO drop between the battery itself and the 50 amp engine breaker. COOL! So that means the drop is most likely in the dash. I am going to check the voltage at the Ignition breaker next in the dash. That breaker, now that we've been talking about it, is very hard to turn on and off when you push it. POSSIBLY, the dash ignition breaker is "shot"??? ------------- '93 Ski Nautique NWZ, Air Boom Tower Drink Tonight..for tomorrow We Ride! |
Posted By: spiralhelix
Date Posted: September-09-2016 at 1:10pm
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Though the dash diagram below is for my 89 (second speedo removed), i'm guessing it will be close enough to a 93. I think your best bet is to use test voltage from the feed side of the 50a breaker to the main ground on the engine block. The thread posted above about wiring the dash shows the location on the block (mine is right by the first spark plug). If you have the correct volts there, then start moving your positive side probe up the chain until you find the drop (so load side of breaker next, followed by feed side of ignition breaker, load side of ig breaker, etc...) If you have the same voltage by the time you get to the ignition switch, then leave your pos lead there, and move your neg lead up along the chain. This will help identify any bad connections all the way into the dash.   Also, maybe i missed it...but as long as the 50a breaker is functioning correctly, you will have a constant +12v at the feed side of the ig breaker. once that is switched on, that provides 12v to your accessories (bilge pump, blower, lights, horn, ig switch). When the ig switch is active, that supplies voltage to the dash. And did you follow that red wire that Pete thought was attached to the temp sensor? does that in fact go to the temp gauge? If it does, curious what was wrong with the original wire that goes through the harness to supply that feed to the gauge. I know it seems tedious, but since nothing has provided great results, it's best to start at the beginning to start ruling out bad wires/connections. Not to say that the gauge itself still isn't bad though as mentioned above. ------------- -Spiral '89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: flyweed
Date Posted: September-09-2016 at 1:46pm
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Thanks for ALL of that great info! I think I found it. I have 13 volts, as I said, at the 50 amp engine breaker, so I moved forward to the 20 amp ignition breaker, I have 13 volts on the "hot" side of the ignition breaker, BUT....I have only 11 volts on the switched side of the ignition breaker.....So I should probably replace the breaker???? ------------- '93 Ski Nautique NWZ, Air Boom Tower Drink Tonight..for tomorrow We Ride! |
Posted By: spiralhelix
Date Posted: September-09-2016 at 1:52pm
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just for testing purposes...disconnect the wires on your blower breaker (or whichever is next to the ig breaker) and move the ig breaker wires to that one and retest. ------------- -Spiral '89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-09-2016 at 1:54pm
Yup! Those breakers are notoriously not the best quality. Great you found it but keep going with cleaning up connections as well as getting heavier wire up to the dash. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
flyweed wrote:Posted By: desertskier
Date Posted: September-09-2016 at 1:57pm
| If you didn't already, disconnect the spade connector at the output and measure it. Could be the crimp connection. If it is the breaker you can try taking it off and cleaning it. Spray some WD40 or contact cleaner into it and cycle it a bunch of times. You can also disconnect both spade connectors and measure the resistance across the breaker. |
Posted By: flyweed
Date Posted: September-09-2016 at 2:11pm
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I bought 10 gauge black and red wire this morning, so I am going to pull new Pos. and Neg. wires to the dash from the engine compartment. I am just going to replace the ignition breaker, like I said, the darn thing doesn't work very good anyway, when you push the button on it, you have to do it like 3 or 4 times, before it turns off or on. I think it's pretty safe to say, it's the breaker. So I have to order a new one from Nautique parts......in the mean time I am going to clean all ground contacts at each gauge, and install the new ground wire and such. ------------- '93 Ski Nautique NWZ, Air Boom Tower Drink Tonight..for tomorrow We Ride! |
Posted By: flyweed
Date Posted: September-10-2016 at 12:17pm
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Great day for some more boat work! Got both a new 10 gauge Ground wire and Hot wire pulled from the engine compartment to behind the dash. Also, went and found this grounding block to connect all my dash ground wires too. Should make things much nicer. Grounded to engine:  At the Dash:   Also ordered a new 20amp Ignition breaker from Nautique Parts, and bought a new Marine Cranking battery. The old battery would lose charge a bit overnight, and I figured it was time for a new one. ------------- '93 Ski Nautique NWZ, Air Boom Tower Drink Tonight..for tomorrow We Ride! |
Posted By: spiralhelix
Date Posted: September-10-2016 at 12:35pm
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good work! If they could only have instant shipping, right? I see you have the new drain plugs too. Gary convinced me to follow his lead and sweat a small piece of copper pipe so you can use a small hose to direct the water through the drain hole. Not necessary of course, but doesn't take much and does keep the additional water out of the bilge.  ------------- -Spiral '89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-10-2016 at 1:11pm
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Dan, Keep up the good work but I do have some suggestions. Avoid using wiring devices designed for the house like the ground block. It plus you using non marine rated wire, there's a potential for corrosion at that aluminum ground block. FYI, marine wire is tinned to prevent corrosion. I also recommend using high quality crimp on connections with heat shrink adhesive lined insulation. These are small items but they do add up to something you won't have a problem with later. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: flyweed
Date Posted: September-10-2016 at 1:22pm
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Pete, this is all just a dry fit so to speak. I AM tinning all stripped ends myself.. I am also coating everything in the corrosion inhibitor I bought. I know it's not perfect, but between the tinning and heat shrink I am doing on most everything, I should be good. ------------- '93 Ski Nautique NWZ, Air Boom Tower Drink Tonight..for tomorrow We Ride! |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-10-2016 at 4:21pm
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Dan, See if you can get a screw type terminal block before having to use the Noalox. In the long run, I feel it would be a better solution plus, less messy!   Premade jumpers are available.  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: planejob
Date Posted: September-10-2016 at 6:15pm
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I'm worried that you are fixing your grounding issue only to introduce another issue that will bite you in a few months. They make marine bus bars, and some guys are artists with wiring. Check out this guys effort: (stolen from the hull truth) 
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Posted By: flyweed
Date Posted: September-10-2016 at 6:42pm
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you guys talked me into it! Heck, this aluminum bus bar was only $3.00, so since I have to wait for my new push button breakers to arrive, I'll just order up a Marine Grounding block too. Pete - those bus bar photos you posted above...aren't those "individual circuits" per each two screws? I mean, there is nothing underneath them connecting them all together is there? I mean, that's why they call them "2 circuit" , "4 circuit", "6 circuit" and so on.. ------------- '93 Ski Nautique NWZ, Air Boom Tower Drink Tonight..for tomorrow We Ride! |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-10-2016 at 6:59pm
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Hi flyweed Go back and look at Pete's picture of the terminal blocks and the little picture underneath them. It says "premade jumpers available" and shows one. That's what they're for. You can jumper together as many circuits as you want with them so order a good number of those too. KenO |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: September-10-2016 at 9:39pm
Dan, while you are waiting for your new breaker, you could do the above to prove out that everything in the dash has proper voltage once you have a known good breaker. I did this to rule out a problem about a month ago, takes a minute and you'll have the answer. Also ..... just a compliment on being very receptive to advice given here. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: flyweed
Date Posted: September-10-2016 at 11:22pm
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63 - I will certainly do the wires over to the "blower" breaker tomorrow and test it out sounds like an easy enough test. Hey, as far as being receptive...I have owned boats for years now, but this is my first ever Inboard/direct drive..and there are TONS of you guys who know alot more than me, so I am eager to learn as much as I can on maintenance, upkeep and repairs. ------------- '93 Ski Nautique NWZ, Air Boom Tower Drink Tonight..for tomorrow We Ride! |
Posted By: flyweed
Date Posted: September-11-2016 at 5:56pm
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Ok, how is this "grounding" bus bar? I picked this up, of ALL places, WAL MART! Stainless Steel, plus a clear cover Is this a good one?  ------------- '93 Ski Nautique NWZ, Air Boom Tower Drink Tonight..for tomorrow We Ride! |
Posted By: spiralhelix
Date Posted: September-11-2016 at 6:43pm
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+1 ------------- -Spiral '89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-11-2016 at 6:53pm
 ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: flyweed
Date Posted: September-11-2016 at 10:51pm
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63 Skier....Ok, I did as you said, after I got my new grounds connected, and the new Hot as well. I connected the terminals from the ignition breaker to the blower breaker and everything was "like new" on my dash..the voltmeter is reading 13 volts, ALL of the lights in the gauges worked, Heck, I tried the horn (which did not work before) and they were a little "squeaky" at first, but loosened up after a few pushes of the horn button, and now they work again. LOL. So just to confirm that my ignition breaker was the problem, I cleaned it really good with contact cleaner, and a brush, and worked the breaker button a few dozen times. I reconnected the ignition wires back to the old breaker, and sure enough I had 2 volts less on the voltmeter..only reading 11 volts. So glad, all of this is slowly coming together! ------------- '93 Ski Nautique NWZ, Air Boom Tower Drink Tonight..for tomorrow We Ride! |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: September-11-2016 at 11:32pm
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Nice to find a simple, easy to fix solution! Doesn't happen all that often. Have you posted any pictures of your boat anywhere? Curious to see it. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: flyweed
Date Posted: September-11-2016 at 11:57pm
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Oh yeah...you can see TONS of before and after pics of my boat over at this thread: http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=39775&PN=1&title=started-buffing-my-93-sn" rel="nofollow - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=39775&PN=1&title=started-buffing-my-93-sn ------------- '93 Ski Nautique NWZ, Air Boom Tower Drink Tonight..for tomorrow We Ride! |