Need more juice for stereo???
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4081
Printed Date: November-23-2024 at 3:45pm
Topic: Need more juice for stereo???
Posted By: SMay81SN
Subject: Need more juice for stereo???
Date Posted: July-06-2006 at 12:11am
Since I was given advice (by J_I_H  ) to repost my quest for help instead of posting on a "tired" thread here it is again.....
I don’t know where to start. Not an electrical guy. With our new 94 SN, it has a stock Alternator, I believe the stock stereo amp, a new CD player head unit and 4 stock speakers. I believe it(alternator or battery) are not putting out enough power. The ignition beaker needs to be on for anything to work first, if the blower or auto bilge is on then the stereo does not have enough power to turn on. If these things are turned off then it will work. Also while motor is running all things will work. Push the horn and stereo goes off, or the bilge comes on, stereo goes off. Please let me know what I can do to eliminate this. I need help. I'm NOT trying to have a 500 watt stereo blaring while we are running but just trying to enjoy a few tunes while out on the lake…..I have 3 or 4 teenagers in the boat all the time so the stereo is a necessity. Thanks! ------------- Scott http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1383&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - Our 94 SN |
Replies:
Posted By: great78
Date Posted: July-06-2006 at 1:08am
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My 96 sport does the same thing. They dont have much in the way of a battery to begin with so I ass-ume that with the engine off and working off of battery only, the bilge has priorty if it gets a start signal. I dont think the alternator comes into play here on this as you mention that all work when engine is running. I'm looking at a second battery set up so a fused hot can be run direct to it and wont compete with the bilge etc. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1314 - Missin' this 78SN http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1527&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - Lovin' this 96 |
Posted By: SS-201
Date Posted: July-06-2006 at 5:48am
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The best way to have the amperage needed is simple,however the manufacture is too cheap or doesn't have a clue.
Coming from a truck, bus ,environment in order to have the power needed rather than to put put on a ridiculous alternator that in time will melt your battery.. You put two 6 volt batteries in series you will have 12 volts and double the amperage ex. 2 -6 volt 500 amp would give you 1000 amp and 12 volts. This will not over work your alternator and melt the batteries. You will have all the power needed end of problem. ------------- SS 201 |
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: July-06-2006 at 9:34am
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Check and see if the amp is wired straight to the battery. If it is connected to the fuse block with everything else I would re-route it. ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: July-06-2006 at 9:49am
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Tim D, he should put an in-line fuse in the line he runs from the amp to the battery right? What size wire should he run? #10?
Be sure to get marine grade wire. Do not use wire you get at the auto parts store. ------------- Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang |
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: July-06-2006 at 9:58am
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Yes, put an in-line fuse close to the battery and I would use multi strand 4 gauge wire. ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: July-06-2006 at 9:58am
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the guage of wire will depend upon the amp, I use #8 on mine. Most newer amps have a fuse built into them so there is no need for a inline fuse. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: SMay81SN
Date Posted: July-06-2006 at 10:18am
I believe the amp is already wired directly to the battery and has a inline fuse. I remember looking at the extra wires connected to the battery and a large square fuse in the line. Boat is at lake house and hour away have to check next time I'm there. But wanted to have ideas of what I could do before I go. More ideas or suggestions are welcome
------------- Scott http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1383&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - Our 94 SN |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: July-06-2006 at 10:47am
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The voltage regulator could be going out in the alternator, you might want to have it tested. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: SMay81SN
Date Posted: July-06-2006 at 12:07pm
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Thanks Chris...hey what have you done with the 81? Is it hanging on the wall in your friends bar yet? I would like to get a picture of it...since we loved the boat for 18 years... ------------- Scott http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1383&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - Our 94 SN |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: July-06-2006 at 12:21pm
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not yet it's sitting on a craddle in the barn right now. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: JEFF KOSTIS
Date Posted: July-06-2006 at 9:47pm
Sorry to butt in on this, but wanted to correct the statement. 2) 6V 500amp batteries in series will give you 12V at 500amps. The voltage doubles, but current stays the same. Scott, sounds like there is a issue. It almost sounds as though you are getting some serious voltage drop issues either with the wiring or a bad alternator. Its shutting down probably due to excessive low voltage. Make sure the ground goes direct to the batt as well and is not tied to the factory ground bus. A fully charged decent sized batt should run it OK with the engine off for a bit. Make sure its wired properly and not actually feeding by accident by the ignition instead of the line to the battery. Also, a inline fuse as close to the battery as possible like JIH said is needed to protect the wiring from burning the boat down if it were to short out. Good luck!!
Jeff... ------------- MUSTANG COUNTRY http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1074 - 1974 Mustang 17 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1093 - 1976 Mustang 17 |
SS-201 wrote:Posted By: SS-201
Date Posted: July-07-2006 at 5:23am
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Two 6 volt batteries in parallel will give you 6 volts and 500 amps. Two 6 volt batteries in series will give you 12 volts and 1000 amps. End of quote. ------------- SS 201 |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: July-07-2006 at 6:41am
If it were that easy to quadruple power, we wouldn't have an energy problem. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: David F
Date Posted: July-07-2006 at 10:17am
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I'll weigh in (don't know why...guess just bored today). I agree with GottaSki. Batteries wired in series will increase voltage, but capacity remains the same.
When the batteries are wired in parallel, you are doubling the capacity but the voltage remains the same. You cannot do both... it's an either or kind of thing. ------------- |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: July-07-2006 at 10:23am
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So you guys are tell me that we screwed you when we designed the battery box for the EV1 and wired the batteries in series to increase amperage output to drive the propulsin system to get the land speed record...OHhhh... waite a minute..... the batteries where in stock configuration and we only added potting to the stator windings to handle the extra heat.
Or in other words you guys don't know what your talking about again. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: David F
Date Posted: July-07-2006 at 10:36am
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79...
Not sure where you are coming from on this, but I guess I can clarify my position and say that if you have amultiple battery bank (more than two) then you can indeed increase voltage AND capacity by doing a combination of wiring the batteries (or cells) in series and in parallel. Not on the same cell/battery, but some in series and some in parallel. Just to make sure I am not all wet on this, I did some looking on the internet (and you know everything you read is accurate) to support my argument. Tell me again why I chimed in? ------------- |
Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: July-07-2006 at 10:36am
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I think you guys are mix-matching terms and you are not talking about the same thing.
Two 6 volt 500 Amp/hr batteries can be connected in series to give you 1000 amp/hours with 12 volt output. This is true. However, max amp output is still limited to the 500 amp rating. Ya'll calm down. ------------- Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: July-07-2006 at 10:44am
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The batteries where all in series and it was not a compination of paralell and series, they where even stacked on top of each other and ever single one had their own heating element as well as several sensors within the craddle that they where mounted in. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: David F
Date Posted: July-07-2006 at 10:45am
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Here is what they teach you in all (except the top 5 ) engineering schools:
In a series circuit the current stays the same but the voltage is additive. In a parallel circuit the voltage stays the same but the current is additive. ------------- |
Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: July-07-2006 at 10:48am
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I just don't know why anyone would want to series 6 volt batteries to increase capacity. Why not parallel two 12 volt batteries. This is what is normally done. In fact, with two parallel 12 volt batteries a disconnect switch can be added to disconnect your engine starting battery from your stereo when setting at the dock so you don't discharge your "main" battery. By doing this you can use a smaller 12 volt "motorcycle" type battery for your second "stereo power" battery. Switch in the smaller battery while running to recharge it. ------------- Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang |
Posted By: David F
Date Posted: July-07-2006 at 10:57am
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J_I_H:
Running two 6-volt batteries in series will only increase the voltage to 12-volts, it will NOT increase the capacity beyond the rating of the individual battery. Now, I agree the smart thing to do is wire two 12-volt batteries in parallel to double the capacity/amperage. This will allow someone to run the stereo until a single battery would normally be exhausted (or significant voltage drop), and still have enought reserve to start the engine. But, that is risky and it makes most sense to me to use a switch to isolate the stereo battery as you suggest. If I was to add a battery for stereo use, it would be a deep cycle type battery that is isolated from the starting circuit. ------------- |
Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: July-07-2006 at 11:29am
 ------------- Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang |
Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: July-07-2006 at 11:34am
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David, we disagree a little. Doubling the amount of chemical solution and doubling the plate area will double the charge capacity (amp/hr capacity). In series, the ampacity will be limited by the smallest link in the chain - which I know you know. The max amp output will not be increased, beyond the max rating of the battery. The capacity will double but the ampacity will remain unchanged. The voltage of course, will be doubled. ------------- Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang |
Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: July-07-2006 at 11:43am
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However, I see no gain of having two 500 amp/hr 6 volt batteries over one 1000 amp/hr 12 volt battery. ------------- Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang |
Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: July-07-2006 at 11:47am
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I see an added danger of seriesing two 6 volt batteries: without adaquate line protection the batteries could easily be overloaded resulting in a hazardous event. ------------- Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang |
Posted By: David F
Date Posted: July-07-2006 at 12:11pm
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J_I_H:
Argh! Are we speaking on the same subject or using the same terms? Let's try it this way: Take two identical 12 volt batteries. Now, put a theoretical load of maximum voltage on one of the batteries so that it will be exhausted in exactly one hour. Now wire the two batteries in series: maximum load, at 24 volts, will exhaust the batteries in one hour. Now wire the two batteries in parallel: maximum load, at 12 volts, will exhaust the batteries in two hours. I agree with: "I see no gain of having two 500 amphr 6 volt...." PS. Your diagram (parallel) looks good to me. ------------- |
Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: July-07-2006 at 2:25pm
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David, I stand by my earlier statements.
This is probably best sutied for an electrical forum somewhere. Not really a CC topic.... Have a good weekend David!!!! ------------- Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: July-07-2006 at 2:37pm
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For what its worth...
The old school method of putting two 6volts in series actually came about because not so many years ago the only decent deep cycle batterys to be found were 6 volt batterys used in golf carts, so if you needed a reliable 12 Volt set up you put them in series. Nowadays you can get 12 volt deep cycles.. and two of them in parallel is a much better solution precisely because if one goes bad your still in business. Conventional wisdom has not necessarily caught up to the technology in some circles... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: David F
Date Posted: July-07-2006 at 2:41pm
Agreed...you have a good weekend as well. ------------- |
Posted By: SS-201
Date Posted: July-08-2006 at 4:58pm
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I guess you are right about golf carts, however in the arena of many toys added to cars, buses, trucks it doesn't fly. If you go down to a West Marine today they sell 6 volt batteries to be used in series with boats with that the demand for power. If you charge batteries in parallel thru a switch one never gets charged up if you don't change over time and again, or without the switch.
I have set up 12 -24 volts series on diesel applications that start on 24 and switch back to 12 still to this day. As I said before cheap is cheap it won't be long it will catch up and go around. The older boats out there were never set up for all today toy's, I have two. I thought this was a learning forum rather than I got one better than you, my mistake. ------------- SS 201 |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: July-08-2006 at 5:32pm
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[QUOTE=David F] Now wire the two batteries in series: maximum load, at 24 volts, will exhaust the batteries in one hour. [QUOTE]
You guys are getting there but I had issue with this statement... Doubling the voltage with the series arrangement, on the identical, unregulated load will draw twice the current, so the batteries will drain in about 1/2 hour in that case. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: JEFF KOSTIS
Date Posted: July-08-2006 at 10:46pm
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OK, sorry I had to butt in again. For SURE, batteries added in series add the voltage and not the current. Say you have 2 6V 100amp hour batteries hooked in series. You would get 12V at 100 amp hours of capacity. 2 12V 50 amp hour batteries in parallel would give you 12V at 100 amp hours. If you look at size of a 6V 100amp hour battery, and a 12V 50 amp hour battery they are usually identical. 12V at 50 amp hours is the same power as 6V at 100 amp hours. Power here is referred to as watts. Adding 2 6V 100 amp hour batteries in series gives you twice the power since doubling the voltage. You cant double the current as you would be getting 4 times the power. This I am 100% SURE of, and wouldnt say so if I wasnt.
Now where I am not 100% sure, is why they still hook 2 6v batts in series instead of 2 12V in parallel. This I think is due to the fact that golf carts and starting large diesels require tons of current. 6 volt batteries will offer less of a voltage drop internally due to the larger cells. 12V batteries have twice as many cells as a 6 volt in the same physical size causing the cells to be smalller and not able to handle the large current as well. Hope you all had a great 4th!! Still had fireworks going on the lake tonight!!
Jeff... ------------- MUSTANG COUNTRY http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1074 - 1974 Mustang 17 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1093 - 1976 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: July-09-2006 at 10:55am
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This topic is hard to leave alone, isn't it? ------------- Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang |
Posted By: Darrel
Date Posted: July-11-2006 at 9:29pm
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No, i couldnt leave the topic alone either.
Cost vs. amp hours is at issue too. A 12 Volt Optima Blue Top runs about $150 and is rated 55 AH, 2 would be $300 and 110AH/12volt. A six volt 200 AH golf cart batt. is about $190 so 2 would be $380 but you get 12 volts/200 AH. Thats almost twice as long as the Blue Top Optima. So run the stereo on the golf cart batt and keep a good 12 volt w/ cca to start and a combiner for trouble free charging. Of course you will need a larger boat to hold all those heavy batteries. |