Out from hibernation
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41555
Printed Date: September-27-2024 at 5:25pm
Topic: Out from hibernation
Posted By: WinterTurtle
Subject: Out from hibernation
Date Posted: July-19-2017 at 12:30pm
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In about a week or so when I get home I'l be doing a first in ~10 years start on a 79 Southwind with a 351 in it. I'm going to outline my plan below - wondering if anyone has valuable input beyond what I'm thinking. ...also the float became stuck at some point and the whole crankcase is full of super old bad gas. ...so there's that too. Hopefully that didn't kill the oil pan gasket =( Initially I'm going to remove the carb and fuel lines & drain the crankcase of all the old gas (let it drip quite a while) and refill with 10w-30 & change filter as well. Then pull spark plugs and give a few squeezes of 10w-30 on top of the pistons. I'm gonna rotate to the 0 on the balancer; mark and pull the dizzy - use a 1/4" on a drill to turn the oil pump until I see pressure. Once I see pressure (It's an R motor - any idea which way the oil pump shaft should be turned?) I'm going to have a buddy hold the drill while I run the starter and hopefully get that oil all over the place. I'll do this a few times while making sure not to overheat the starter or the wiring. Then I'll drain that oil and replace with new. May change the filter again at this point as well. I need to get the old fuel out -- not sure yet if I'm going to remove and clean the tank -- or just flush with a lot of good fresh. I'll probably decide based on a combination of if the old has chunky texture & how difficult it is to remove the tank. The fuel sender ' gauge works so if I don't have to remove it I'd like to avoid it. I plan on a full rebuild of the carburetor and replacement of all fuel lines I can access. Next I'll put the dizzy back on. If it or the cap and rotor or points or plugs look really bad I'll replace them then -- but I want to make sure the block is solid before I put any real resources into the machine. Good news is I have SBF parts laying all over my shop... I'll turn it over and check spark and repair if necessary before I give it any fuel. I'll also check the trans fluid level just in 'case' -- get it? So at that point with spark clean oil, clean carb, and clean fuel I'll hook it to water and see if she wants to run. Check the vitals and see if she's healthy! I assume the lifters will be collapsed (maybe spinning the oil pump earlier will help avoid this...) so it it knocks there I'll let it run a minute and shut it down for an hour or so - then repeat til the knock goes away. I've seen videos of land-running these boats and people seem to run their hoses into the engine compartment. Is there a standard way to hook up the water? The cooling system is definitely most foreign to me. Does anyone have a drawing or schematic of the cooling systems on these? If it doesn't leak water & the oil and water dont mix I'll go ahead with phase II. That'll be points, condenser, plugs, wires, cap, rotor, water pump impeller thing (I know nothing about these but looks like o-ring sealed somewhere?) tranny fluid and install a set of mechanical gauges (temp, voltage, oil) under the dash somewhere. Anything else I'm missing? |
Replies:
Posted By: Dreaming
Date Posted: July-19-2017 at 2:34pm
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I don't think your plan is a bad one, but a couple of things I would change from what you said. - When you pull the plugs to lube the rings,I would use ATF or Marvel Mystery, they will leak down further into the rings and help to break anything loose that may be stuck. MM burns better than the others also, so might be the best choice. 2 rotations on the engine with a breaker bar will make sure everything is free before you use the starter... you won't feel the resistance with a starter, and could break something. Most guys run 10-40 or 20-50 oil, not 10-30. I would also recommend that you do some reading on Zinc content, it is going to be important for longevity of your cam etc. VR-1 Racing and Brad penn oils have the added Zinc. they are not cheap, but much better than a cam replacement. Both RR and Standard oil pumps rotate counter clock wise, same as the distributor. I would guess that you could run a couple of hours on fresh oil before needing to change it again, even if the engine has been sitting and has crap in it. get it nice and warm and get the oil flowing before you go for a second oil change. The oil pump shaft is 5/16, I believe. Get the tool from your local speed shop, or tape your socket to the extension so you don't have to pull the motor or go fishing for the socket in the oil pan. The oil pump is the same for a RR and a STD rotation motor. Pull the fuel tank, that nasty gas has lots of chunks/sludge in it... Those will be winding up in your fuel filter if your lucky, or your carb if they get by the filter. Sounds like a carb rebuild is/should be on your list already, but you don't want to screw that up with bad gas and have to do it again in a couple of hours. also, check your fuel lines for deterioration and replace the fuel filter after you're comfortable with the engine running. I would probably do this first actually, so you don't get overflow crap from the old bad gas in the new carb rebuild. the water connection on land is done by adding a T between the hull pickup and the water strainer. do a site search for the "Timmy Tee" there are several threads with instructions and a parts list. Cheap and effective. probably the best $20 I have spent on this boat. Your start method is inconsistent with engine break in instructions, Most would tell you to start the engine, and run at 2000 RPM for 20 mins to get all of the parts lubricated and broken in. I don't think I would stop/start the engine unless there was a problem. I would just follow the break in instructions if it were mine. Most wear happens on start up when oil pressure is low. |
Posted By: Dreaming
Date Posted: July-19-2017 at 2:53pm
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one more thought. If you pull the distributor, marking it is not really the best way to make sure it is timed correctly. I would use a timing light to set it at 10° BTDC as initial timing |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: July-19-2017 at 3:38pm
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Dizzy rotation is ccw viewed from top. I wouldn't spin the drill while running starter. Once oil galleries are full you are good to start. You can plug garden hose into the hose that leads to RWP, but the hose pressure can mask a bad pump. Google 'Timmy-Tee', $15 will get you a good water hookup. Good luck! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-19-2017 at 11:34pm
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I'd say for your oil pump priming tool idea, it's not a good one. Like Dreaming said it's a 5/16 hex shaft for a 351w and trying do do something with what sounds like a 1/4 inch drive socket set is inviting trouble like a socket falling into places you can't reach. Either get an oil pump priming tool from Summit, Jegs etc or an old 351 distributor can . have the shaft removed and the gear taken off, then use that in the drill running CCW All that gas in the oil might mean a bad fuel pump too. Was the gas there for the last 10 years since it was parked or did it leak in slowly over the years? You probably don't know the answer to that question since you just got the boat so I'd be looking at the fuel pump too. Post a picture of the fuel pump, it'll show what kind of ruptured diaphragm indication it has being a marine fuel pump.. If it leaked in over time while the boat was sitting, then your anti siphon valve on the gas tank isn't working right because it would prevent siphoning thru any path while the engine is not running Also remember that if you have a pile of 351 automotive parts, you don't want to use the automotive starter cause it'll spin the engine backwards and it'll never start  Starters, carburetors, fuel pumps, alternators,distributors fuel lines should all be marine specific parts for safety reasons |
Posted By: WinterTurtle
Date Posted: July-20-2017 at 9:43am
Yeah definitely one of those things I know I should do. Better not cut corners afterall lol! By chance does anyone have experience with pulling a tank from one of these? I know it's at the stern somehow but hopefully I don't have to take up the floor to access it. |
Dreaming wrote:Posted By: WinterTurtle
Date Posted: July-20-2017 at 9:46am
Why do you say that? Potential interference issue? My idea was to try and flush out as much of the bad gas from the crank case as possible before trying to start the engine. I know mixing gas with oil causes it to become less sticky and sort of dissociate / lubricate worse so I'm worried about damaging the bearings with gassy-oil on initial start. |
Posted By: WinterTurtle
Date Posted: July-20-2017 at 9:57am
Ok so a few questions - sounds like you're an authority on these! Here's the fuel pump -- what's that small line? a vacuum line of some kind? Glad I snapped so many motor pics while I was there! Are you suggesting the diaphragm could have ruptured and let in gas through the shaft oil seal?  Next anti-siphon valve -- is that like a small vacuum operated fuel shutoff valve? I've seen those on forklifts and scooters and the like -- makes sense they'd be on boats as well considering the environmental risk... Lastly I'm interested in hearing more about the design differences in the marine components you refer to. Starter would be reverse so that makes sense haha... but I thought the Holley I was looking at was a run-of-the-mill Holley. How about the starter and alternator? They didn't look totally enclosed - but I wasn't looking super close either... Is the line from the fuel tank steel or flexible? How does that spec vary from automotive carb lines? Regardless I appreciate your wisdom here. A lot of these components I had assumed were roughly equivalent on a high level. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-20-2017 at 10:29am
Authority.... No but I've had plenty of experience breaking and fixing 351's in boats cars and , trucks for the last 45 years or so The small line will indicate a ruptured diaphragm in the fuel pump and dump excess fuel into the carburetor while the engine is running tending to stall it or at least make it run lousy. The anti siphon valve is a spring loaded ball check valve that is normally closed and is opened by fuel pump suction. Not so much an environmental risk as an explosion risk if you mix gas fumes in the bilge/engine compartment with a stray spark. I suppose the resulting explosion would affect the environment along with you and anybody nearby The starter distributor and alternator are spark protected. Different ways of doing it, either fully sealed in the areas that spark or brass spark arrestor screens in those areas.. In the picture of the fuel pump your alternator looks like an AC Delco that was put on in place of the original and should have a spark arrestor screen covering all the openings in the front and back of it if it's marine rated Other brands do it differently depending on the alternator. Starters have some extra spark protection too, done in different ways depending on the starter You should have rubber hose that's USCG approved from the tank to the fuel pump. That same picture of the fuel pump shows a fuel filter/water separator that doesn't look like it's hooked to anything, maybe it was bypassed long ago or I'm just not seeing a hose going in and another going out.. If you do a Google search like................correctcraftfan fuel line or correctcraftfan distributor as an example you'll find plenty of info and keep yourself busy for hours or days reading things. Gotta go break or at least tear apart some stuff now so I can have that much more experience |
Posted By: Dreaming
Date Posted: July-20-2017 at 1:54pm
I have pulled the tank on both of the boats i have owned. The 82 had lag bolts and straps into the back of the stringers, the 94 was really similar, but the straps were bolted in the middle of the tank with bolt/nut arrangement. Getting the tank out is tricky only because you need to remove the fill hose and vent hose. they are tucked up under the transom wall, and hard to access. WD-40 and a pick are going to be your friend for this task. I assume a Southwind is going to be similar to my Ski's, so pull the seat base out, remove the rear seat back (remove any bolts screws, and push the back straight up until it releases from the clips, then pull towards the motor box. Mine had carpeted panels behind the seat back that needed to be removed by pulling up then out. once the carpeted panels are removed, you'll see the tank and the attachment straps. if you can empty the tank first by siphon or spare fuel pump, or suction, etc. your job will be much easier. don't forget to remove the fuel sender wire and tank ground wire. |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: July-20-2017 at 3:25pm
Probably wouldn't hurt anything, just not what I would do. There probably is not much thinned oil in the oil galleries, so as long as you change oil 1st, it should full of good oil from using the drill. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-22-2017 at 12:37am
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Have you installed a new raw water pump in this boat. They are made of rubber and fail due to age as much as use. I would spend the $30 and install a new one as a precaution. ------------- |
Posted By: WinterTurtle
Date Posted: July-24-2017 at 12:46pm
I've not yet picked up the boat (weighing options for trailers locally vs travelling) but should be finalizing the BOS today. I'm itching to get started on it! I'm going to make sure and add the RWP impeller to the list or pre-lake works. Consensus is as you said -- for me to change it or regret not changing it =) ------------- 1979 Southwind 18 351w Not Running - All Potential! |