Quick Fuel float adjustments
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41582
Printed Date: November-21-2024 at 3:18pm
Topic: Quick Fuel float adjustments
Posted By: 1994nautique
Subject: Quick Fuel float adjustments
Date Posted: July-22-2017 at 1:46pm
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So I have finished doing the protec to carb swap and I have been trying to work the bugs out. I had the floats adjusted to spec with the boat on the trailer. We took it out and ran the boat and the carb started flooding out the engine with gas actually dripping straight into the intake with the throttle in neutral. So I figured I was getting to much fuel pressure so I adjusted the floats down so I could barely see the fuel in the sight glass. I added a fuel filter right before the fuel pump and took the boat out and it ran decent, it acted like it wasn't getting enough fuel, So I adjusted floats back up and ran good, still not the greatest at wide open throttle out of the hole. If I eased into the throttle it would take off better, no sputtering. I adjusted the secondary's so they kick in about 35 mph. This morning I took it out and it was hesitating at about 30 mph. Did a couple hole shots and it seemed flat, didn't run anything like it did the last time I was out. I checked the float levels and the secondary bowl was good, the primary was to high again and the gas was running into the intake again with the throttle at idle. So I adjusted the float down and it started running good again. I went skiing and it ran good other than it seemed like it was flooding out when it started up... had to open up the throttle in neutral to get it to start. This is getting long winded and I'm sorry about that but I am running out of ideas on why I can't keep the floats adjusted properly. Any ideas are greatly appreciated! Thanks |
Replies:
Posted By: fanofccfan
Date Posted: July-22-2017 at 2:04pm
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I am having the same issue of fuel dumping in at idle. I have adjusted the bowls several times. Hope I finally have it dialed in. I called quick fuel and the fella I had advising me knew less than I did and that ain't much! ------------- 2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-22-2017 at 3:50pm
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If you have a piece or pieces of junk just upstream of the needle and seat randomly getting stuck in between them and bouncing around it'll drive you crazy trying to adjust the float level as the piece moves around.. I'd pull the bowls and look and make sure the fuel inlet and your fuel line from the pump don't have junk anywhere. |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: July-22-2017 at 4:15pm
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Quick fuel is great with warranty if you end up needing a replacement. Good luck. I've always had excellent luck with the float level adjustments. We had to warranty one because of accelerator pump underperformance but that's all. Currently messing with Mars' carb. I believe the back butterflies are open too far letting in too much fuel from the transition circuits causing a bad rich idle. |
Posted By: 1994nautique
Date Posted: July-22-2017 at 4:56pm
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That's about where I am, I've messed with carbs a bit but never really fine tuned one. I've never had issues with setting the floats. I was kinda leaning towards taking the bowl off and checking, Thanks Guys! |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: July-22-2017 at 5:21pm
Zach, You must be speaking about when QFT owned QFT. Now that Holley has purchased them customer service is not what it was. Still a great product but normal Holley service dept. ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
phatsat67 wrote:Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: July-22-2017 at 5:31pm
| Ahh. It was 2 years ago when I dealt with warranty. I returned it to summit. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: July-22-2017 at 7:31pm
| Believe Holley purchased QF ~5 yrs ago. |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: July-22-2017 at 9:46pm
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1994 SNOB with a new QF M-600. One morning it started running super rich. Couldn't get the engine to idle. Ran fine at wide open throttle, but idle was 1,500 rpm or engine would die. I pulled the flame arresor off and saw fuel running into the mains. Back at the hacienda, I pulled the float bowl off and found that a small piece of brass had become lodged in between the needle and seat. This prevented the needle/seat assembly from stopping the fuel flow into the bowl -- hence the fuel running into the mains. So, I put in a new needle and seat assembly in the carb and it has performed flawlessly since. The piece of brass looked like a small remnant left over from the machining process. I don't know where the brass came from, but I'm guessing from the fuel tank as I had recently replaced some of the brass fittings there. JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: July-23-2017 at 12:23am
Last year is what they told me ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: July-23-2017 at 1:50pm
+1 Same story I got from QF / Holley when I called to get recommendations for secondary jets. JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-23-2017 at 3:25pm
JQ I checked with my dentist and he said to do a Google search and you'd probably find that in 2012 (that's what 5 years ago?) QF was bought by the holding company that bought Holley after some bankruptcy problems Holley had. Everything changed hands a couple of times and now there is Holley Performance Products Group that owns quite a few aftermarket companies and QF is one of them Holley history (a long and winding road) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holley_Performance_Products" rel="nofollow - link Some QFT history http://www.dragzine.com/news/quick-fuel-technology-founder-marvin-benoit-retires-after-19-years/" rel="nofollow - QFT So High Performance Industries who at the time owned Holley bought them in 2012 Then everybody changed hands again once or twice after that. That's probably part of the story So in the end I said to myself"who cares when it happened? or how many times it happened. Just one big incestuous aftermarket industry where everybody keeps getting bought and sold by investment groups Kinda like being married to your cousin or something and then divorced and remarried again  I'm sure this isn't the whole accurate story because it's probably next to impossible to figure out but it sounds like everybody's right ...........sort of |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-23-2017 at 3:38pm
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I hope 1994 Nautique is out playing with his carburetor instead of getting distracted by all this
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Posted By: 1994nautique
Date Posted: July-23-2017 at 7:46pm
| I took the primary bowl off and found half dozen little tiny metal shards in the bowl. I didn't see anything on the needle and seat. I was hopingI would see something a bit bigger. I guess if it was bigger there would probably be gas dumping out of the overflow. I'm hopefully going to get out this evening and run it again fingers crossed..... |
Posted By: 1994nautique
Date Posted: July-24-2017 at 2:06am
| Well, took the Nautique out and so far so good no flooding. So the only thing at this time is when I hit it full throttle out of the hole it hesitates until about 2600 rpm then it takes off like it should. If I ease into the throttle it takes off no problem. I opened the gap on the plugs to .055 when I installed the dui, I was thinking I would close them to .050 and see how it runs. Any thoughts?? |
Posted By: MourningWood
Date Posted: July-26-2017 at 9:22pm
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One thing I've done with marine carbs is to extend the vent tubes a bit. (raise them). Boats move up and down much more than most vehicles do. It helps. |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: July-27-2017 at 11:11am
I don't predict the gap to cure that. tell us.. Whats your initial timing at? What PV is in the carb? How did you set the idle mix? ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: 1994nautique
Date Posted: July-29-2017 at 1:17am
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Never had time to change plugs this week. The power valve is 6.5, the idle was set at one and a quarter out. When I set the idle screws I had a vacuum gauge hooked up to the carb vacuum port and I didn't have any reading at all. It is running terrible rich at idle. It loads up and starts fouling plugs until I run it at higher rpm. I was going to try 3/4 turn out on the idle for a while and try that..... Timing is at 10 deg. BTDC |
Posted By: fanofccfan
Date Posted: July-29-2017 at 8:57am
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My idle screws are turned out between 1/2 and 3/4 turn. They were more than 1-1/4 until I moved them in. That seemed to help on mine. ------------- 2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-29-2017 at 9:17am
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A picture of the vacuum port with the gauge hooked up might be helpful if you say you have no vacuum reading. Have you verified the secondaries aren't leaking/dripping at idle. I see you took off the primary bowl but not the secondary. If you have junk in one you have a good chance of having junk in the other |
Posted By: 1994nautique
Date Posted: July-29-2017 at 1:13pm
| Turned the idle screws in this morning to 3/4 turn and she ran like a champ! I will try and post a picture with the vacuum gauge, This quick fuel carb has the two ports on the bottom underneath the primary bowl. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-29-2017 at 1:50pm
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I'd imagine that you're at a fairly high elevation out there in Wyoming and the idle mixture adjustments make sense. How high are you? elevation wise that is Good job, hope it keeps running good now |
Posted By: 1994nautique
Date Posted: July-29-2017 at 2:02pm
Reeeeally high ha, at 6 am - the boats running good - and we're ripping up glassed out water  Elevation wise about 4200 ft. Thanks for the help! |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-29-2017 at 2:21pm
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If you hook into the other port right next to the one you're probably hooked into, you should get a vacuum reading at idle. One is full manifold vacuum and the other that you probably hooked into is the timed spark port that reads above throttle plate vacuum and at idle it'll read about zero. Hook into the manifold vacuum port and it'll give you the readings you're looking for. They look like they tap into the same place but they don't.
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Posted By: 1994nautique
Date Posted: July-29-2017 at 2:28pm
| Ok, I will try it, do I need to have anything tied into the port coming of the metering block? |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: July-29-2017 at 2:37pm
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Are you running stock jets? I'm in SLC area and I'm running 2 sizes smaller on jets for the altitude. I typically run between 4,400 and 6,200 feet elevation in Utah. FWIW, She runs like a scolded dog... JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-29-2017 at 2:38pm
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That port off the metering block is also a "timed vacuum port" sensing above throttle plate vacuum so you don't need anything hooked to it. I'd just cover it with a small cap. I'd probably also take JQ's advice on jets for your altitude. |
Posted By: 1994nautique
Date Posted: July-30-2017 at 1:26am
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Sounds good, I will keep it plugged. I will definitely be changing jets at some point, I've been fallowing JQ's posts with the protec swap. JQ did you change both the primary and secondary jets sizes? |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: July-30-2017 at 1:44am
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Yes, I changed jet sizes. I went with the rule-of-thumb of 1 jet size for each 2,000 feet of elevation. As such, I decreased jet sizes by 2 for primary and secondary metering blocks. One nice feature on the QF is that the secondary metering block has changeable jets. The 4160 does not. Since the jets are fairly inexpensive, I bought jets for one, two and three sizes smaller. The carb also has changeable air bleeds, but I kept those at the stock setting. Most of my boating/skiing is at Utah Lake (4,400 feet elevation) so the 2X size reduction is spot-on. Out of the box, the accelerator pump was OK and the idle air mixture screw setting was also good. I have not had to adjust choke or vacuum secondaries. Where in WY are you? What is your elevation? JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: 1994nautique
Date Posted: July-31-2017 at 1:29am
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I am in the northeast corner, by Devils Tower, about 4200 feet. Where did you buy your jets from? |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: July-31-2017 at 3:51pm
www.summitracing.com I buy waaaay to much stuff from those guys. I've had great success with the 2 jet size drop at 4,400 feet. You may be a good candidate for the same. The QF carb package indicated the jet sizes, but I pulled the jets and looked at the number stamped on the jets. JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: 93xs2003@gmail.com
Date Posted: August-02-2017 at 10:07am
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When I installed a QF carb, my original flame arrestor would not clear the float adjustment screws, so I replaced it with a barbron 5-3/4" dia. aluminum arrestor. Float adjustment issue fixed. I wasn't happy with the cold start idle. I went down early in advance of the skiers and dialed the choke in while cold. Shut down, buttoned it up, restarted and pulled away from the dock. Idle was terrible. Pig-rich, Stalled. Float bowl sites show normal fuel level. Restarted & cleared it with a little throttle. Idle is now perfectly fine. Huh? Does not compute. What was happening was the 5-3/4" arrestor was interfering with the choke butterfly shaft. Depending on very slight shift in arrestor centrality, arrestor rotation, bolt torque, engine vibration, etc. the choke would intermittently stick until the bi-metallic spring overcame the friction of shaft against the arrestor. There was a small witness mark (burnishing of the black coating) on the choke shaft on the end opposite the bell-crank. If you are running a 5-3/4" arrestor, check for interference. |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: August-02-2017 at 7:02pm
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Good catch. I run the K&N flame arrestor that comes with an elevated flange. I double-checked for choke operation when I installed the unit. JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: August-03-2017 at 8:49am
| Which K&N are you using? |
Posted By: 93xs2003@gmail.com
Date Posted: August-03-2017 at 9:02am
| JQ, Does the k&n have a barb for the fuel pump overflow? |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-03-2017 at 11:03am
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The page in the link has some "other brand" applications listed and also has a listing of vent hose adapters that you can get separately like the fuel pump overflow fitting etc. https://www.knfilters.com/marine/boats.htm" rel="nofollow - link |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: August-03-2017 at 7:13pm
Parts List K&N Marine Flame Arrestor K&N 59-3264 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/knn-59-3264/overview/ 1/4 inch vent adaptor K&N 85-1325 (this is for the clear fuel line from fuel pump) https://www.summitracing.com/parts/knn-85-1325 5/8 inch vent adaptor K&N 85-1362 (this is for the engine vent into the carb) https://www.summitracing.com/parts/knn-85-1362 JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: 93xs2003@gmail.com
Date Posted: August-04-2017 at 2:20pm
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No doubt those external barbs work fine for venting crankcase gasses. I'd be interested to know k&n's official position on using them for fuel pump overflow. I don't have a sense of how much fuel could flow when a diaphragm fails, but I'd think you would want raw fuel to be dumped directly down the throttle bores (like a 4160) rather than outside the arrestor. I'm assuming the nn-85-1325 does not penetrate the arrestor/filter. It's a shame QF didn't just put a fuel overflow barb on their marine carb.. |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: August-04-2017 at 4:43pm
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Honestly, I did consider that issue also. But, I've convinced myself that the airflow and the design of the vent adapter should be sufficient to handle the fuel leakage from a bad pump diaphragm. +1 on wishing that QF had an overflow barb attachment on the carb . :-( JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-04-2017 at 5:31pm
Sounds like you need to talk to K&N to see how they justify that it meets USCG standards. Probably through their own testing and not by Underwriters Lab testing for Coast Guard Approval. There's a difference between "meets Coast Guard standards" and "USCG approved' A good example of that is a DUI marine distributor. It meets the standard but it hasn't undergone the UL testing. The testing is Expensive (with a capital E) and their legal department must be comfortable justifying that it meets the standard through their own testing. (The uscg says if you meet SAE J-1928 or UL-1111 requirements, you're OK) I could modify a flame arrestor or modify a distributor to meet the standards pretty easily but come testing time, it's a whole lotta money involved. People on here have modified their flame arrestors and distributors and might also throw in carburetors to become "marine" to them, but that's their choice for personal use. and in the case of older stuff they improved on the original 60's equipment.
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Posted By: 93xs2003@gmail.com
Date Posted: August-04-2017 at 11:05pm
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I bet that k&n would state that their air filter has USCG approval with respect to queching the flame of a back fire event, but would claim no responsibility with respect to use if the 1/4 barb for fuel overflow. The 85-1325 is a "vent hose adapter.". What it is attached to is the end users responsibility. I considered drilling a hole to attach a barb to my brand new throttle body, but dismissed the idea. I also considered adding a barb to my old flame arrestor and using a spacer to clear to the floats adjusters. Dismissed this as well. |