Factory 4 blade prop vs. new Acme prop
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: Common Questions
Forum Discription: Visit here first for common questions regarding your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42184
Printed Date: November-24-2024 at 8:47am
Topic: Factory 4 blade prop vs. new Acme prop
Posted By: Otto Throttle
Subject: Factory 4 blade prop vs. new Acme prop
Date Posted: November-29-2017 at 4:31am
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Newbie Question....1999 Nautique closed bow with 290 hp option and factory 4 blade prop. I just bought the boat and noticed a little prop damage one 1 blade. No vibration at any rpm or speed. Quandary...should I have it repaired or should I keep it as a spare and get an Acme 4 blade? Also if buying an Acme should I go with same pitch. I was getting 45 mph at 4400 rpm according to perfect pass. Can someone give me the pros and cons on this please? ------------- Otto |
Replies:
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: November-29-2017 at 8:28am
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I have read where some guys claim a 3 blade will soften the wake a bit. I would call acme and see what they recommend. If a 4 blade the 422 would likely be a good choice. Timmy will be along soon to give his recommendation as well as scold you for not posting GPS accurate MPH';s, lol ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: November-29-2017 at 8:42am
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How about a photo of the damage? If it isn't causing a problem, maybe leave it be. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Fl Inboards
Date Posted: November-29-2017 at 10:27am
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Not Sure when we went to the ACME products, seems to me it may have been around 99. ACME 422 will work nicely on a 290 HP SN package. The three blade C&C ACME is a bit noisy and left hand growl will be prevalent when tight turning the boat. OJ also makes a great Prop that is a C&C product. ------------- Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise. 1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: November-29-2017 at 11:20am
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I think it was 02-03 when the swap happened. It is when they used the neat N machined into the face of each propeller blade. Buy a 422 and don't put money into repairing the stock propeller. 1442 may over turn the engine a bit but may also be a good choice for a 3 blade/more hole shot on the carb HO motor. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-29-2017 at 11:32am
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01 IIRC. I’d stick with the 422 for all around use on the HO. The OJ equivalent acts larger (performance in line with the 668). |
Posted By: Otto Throttle
Date Posted: November-29-2017 at 11:33am
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I am new to all this so thank you all. What Benifits are a 3 blade vs a 4 blade. I am having a hard time grasping the proper application for each? I am trying to grasp all this! Thank you! ------------- Otto |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: November-29-2017 at 11:42am
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Just go 422. It's a proven performer on that hull. About the best you can get outside of special needs application. Top speed won't change much but everything else will be light years ahead. Better hole shot, better mid range punch, easier speed holding, better tracking/handling, quicker stopping when you chop throttle and leave it in gear. |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: November-29-2017 at 12:51pm
Interesting, the quicker stopping is not something I ever evaluated or paid attention to. Learn something new here every day! ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
phatsat67 wrote:Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: November-29-2017 at 2:25pm
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The Acme 4 blade also eliminates the prop howl you hear at different speeds. It is a good change, I removed the 4 blade non CNC 4 blade OJ and replaced with the Acme. Very Happy with the move. ------------- |
Posted By: Otto Throttle
Date Posted: November-30-2017 at 11:37am
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Thanks for the advice! I was able to find a new 422 for $360.00 delivered so I went for it. I just do some skiing, tubing, and some bare footing so I think this was a good choice. You brought up some interesting points about 18 years of change in design and mfg...how different is the factory prop from the Acme? Is it lighter, different design blades...? Will it behave the same as the factory prop in reverse? What and how does cupping do to the performance of a prop? I know with aircraft 4 blades usually turn slower and have a smaller diameter....but they are not fixed pitch either! ------------- Otto |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: November-30-2017 at 1:36pm
I think it was 02. My 2001 Super Air had a Federal/Oj, whatever it was, and I put the acme on it in 02 as the 02 Super Airs had acme and it was smoother, and a bit faster. ICBW. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-30-2017 at 2:04pm
| ‘01 brochure shows OJ and ‘02 brochure shows Acme, so you’re at least partially correct Brian. I bought dad a 422 in the summer of ‘01 after whacking the 4-blade OJ he had put on our ‘92... From memory, I did so based on what was available on the new boats at the time and it would have been prior to seeing the ‘02 literature that usually showed up in late Aug. So my suspicion is that CC switched mid ‘01 but I’m not sure there’s a way to prove it. Other than maybe polling original 2001 owners anyways, ha. |
Posted By: Otto Throttle
Date Posted: December-01-2017 at 6:25pm
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PROBLEM: just pulled mine off and it is. OJ 13 inch Diameter by 16 pitch. The 422 is a 12.5 x 15.5. What are the options to get into a Acme wheel???? ------------- Otto |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-01-2017 at 6:48pm
The simple answer is an Acme 422 like a few knowledgeable people with experience with the same boat have already mentioned. It sounds like you already bought it. Don't sweat it. The newer style CNC props and the older props can't be directly compared by looking at pitch and diameter of each due to a variety of things like surface area of the blades, rake of the blades, prop efficiency etc.. |
Posted By: Otto Throttle
Date Posted: December-01-2017 at 8:06pm
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Ok! I was going to send the check tomorrow...so I should still do it?! Also, Who can true up the OJ prop for me? I want to send it to be reconditioned. Thank you for your response! ------------- Otto |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: December-01-2017 at 8:07pm
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+1 on what KENO says. The propeller size numbers don't always correlate across manufacturers and propeller types. A 14X16 OJ 3-blade will NOT be the same as a 14X16 ACME 4-blade. The ACME 422 is a good propeller for a 290HP Ski Nautique. If I lived at a lower elevation, I would run a 422. Since I'm at 4,400 feet, I run an ACME 654 (12.5X15 with .105 cup). The 422 is a 12.5X15.5 with a .105 cup. Great propellers. JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-01-2017 at 8:49pm
| I bet if you google "propeller repair Cleveland Ohio" you'll come up with some local choices with no shipping involved |
Posted By: Otto Throttle
Date Posted: December-02-2017 at 2:19am
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I thought that most places won't work on ski props? ------------- Otto |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: December-02-2017 at 6:25am
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Where do you find a new 422 for $360??? ------------- |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-02-2017 at 8:05am
Let your fingers do the walking and give them a call. You might be surprised 
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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-02-2017 at 8:09am
You've heard some bad information. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Otto Throttle
Date Posted: December-02-2017 at 1:23pm
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I will tell you when my check is cashed!!!! Probably Wed. I figured it was a great deal at 30% off list....By the way when I took my factory prop off it just came off nicely...no sweat🙃 ------------- Otto |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-02-2017 at 1:33pm
Christopher, If it came off without using a prop puller, understand it wasn't installed properly. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Otto Throttle
Date Posted: December-02-2017 at 1:51pm
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Could you please elaborate??? I have been an outboard guy for 35 years😲 ------------- Otto |
Posted By: Otto Throttle
Date Posted: December-02-2017 at 1:54pm
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What would be the proper installation for my new prop? ------------- Otto |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-02-2017 at 2:11pm
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12866&KW=proper+prop&PID=145077&title=proper-prop-installation#145077" rel="nofollow - A link from the FAQ's on proper prop installation. Sorry about the pictures but it's just another thread Photobucket screwed up!!  Basically it's lapping the prop taper bore to match the shaft taper. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Otto Throttle
Date Posted: December-02-2017 at 2:20pm
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This sounds difficult....unfortunately the pics did not come out. Could you please try re sending them? I want to do this correctly and your help is appreciated! How snugg do you tighten the castle nut? Is there a torque spec? THANK YOU! ------------- Otto |
Posted By: Otto Throttle
Date Posted: December-02-2017 at 2:20pm
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How long does this process take? 45 minutes? ------------- Otto |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: December-02-2017 at 2:40pm
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If you search lapping a prop or something like that you'll get the info you need with pictures I'm sure. The prop taper should be a near-perfect match for the shaft taper so that there aren't any stress points and it's basically held in place by being perfectly mated. The nut only needs to be hand tight and then the cotter pin keeps it from backing out. It's actually very easy, just need a couple of things from the auto parts store. And what Pete was saying is that no inboard prop should come off without at least a bit of a tug from a puller. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-02-2017 at 3:06pm
It may take me a couple days to get the pictures back up. I no longer have them since they went onto Photobucket off a long gone computer. It sounds like you don't understand what Photobucket did to us and tons of others who used the site for image hosting. They cut off 3rd party hosting and now charge I believe $400 a year for it!! So, I have to go into my Photobucket account, load each picture into my current computer and then load them into CCfan. It is not a difficult process to lap a prop and the 45 minutes is close to what it should take. David is correct that the prop nut does not hold the prop on. It's there to seat the prop on the taper and then if the taper is good, it can actually be removed! Do however keep it on since it does act as a safety. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Otto Throttle
Date Posted: December-02-2017 at 4:40pm
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First of all, thanks for you help with this...I think most do not know about this let alone how to perform this at install. I will be putting th new CNC prop on this shaft. Will that make the process easier, harder or no different at all? I am excited, but a bit apprehensive on doing it correctly.! Also I really like your antique! I started out with Lyman Boats in the 1980's, thee are lapstrake construction and were made in Sandusky OH.. Thanks for the effort on getting me the pictures!!!! Chris ------------- Otto |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: December-02-2017 at 4:42pm
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I thought there was a spec for tightening the prop shaft nut. 30 ft lbs or so? I know the nut is just there for safety and lapping is what lets the prop seat on the shaft properly. As others already pointed out if a puller was not needed on removal your prop was not correctly installed. ------------- |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: December-02-2017 at 5:03pm
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Mark I said hand tight but in truth I give it a light turn with a wrench, not much oomph though, never have torqued one. Chris, very important step after lapping is to fit the prop to the shaft without the key in place, mark the shaft with a sharpie where the front of the prop snugs up, then when you install with the key you can look and be sure the key is not keeping the prop from fully seating. Snug up the nut then back out a slight amount if needed to line up the hole to insert the cotter pin. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: December-02-2017 at 5:40pm
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Acme prints 35 foot pounds torque on the prop nut. 35 is about what you would get tightening with a 12" wrench till tight. That would be after lapping and then installing with no key, marking location and final install with the key in place verifying your prop seats to your no key Mark. I ran tournament boats for 25 years before this forum taught me how to install a prop the right way. Follow their advice and you will have no trouble with the new prop install. I still want a new Acme 422 for your price of $360! ------------- |
Posted By: Blamey
Date Posted: December-02-2017 at 11:45pm
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Delta propeller has the 422 for 385. I think they offer the site discount of 5% with the code. That gets you pretty close to $360. ------------- 96 Super Sport Previously: 95 Sport Nautique, 1980 Ski Supreme |
Posted By: Otto Throttle
Date Posted: December-03-2017 at 2:32am
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Nope....central time...cold....,I am glad this could be a good deal...I will tell you wed. I bought the boat in September...I will call the story two weeks in september! It really is kinda amazing! I really love this boat...I just want to do everything "correctly".... pun intended! ------------- Otto |
Posted By: Otto Throttle
Date Posted: December-03-2017 at 2:33am
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360 delivered! ------------- Otto |
Posted By: spiralhelix
Date Posted: December-04-2017 at 11:45am
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I too didn't know anything about prop lapping until i read Pete's post. I came across a guy on youtube that I feel does a pretty good job explaining if you prefer watching the process. However, he has his shaft spinning on a machine, which we can't generally do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ozh4JjoWm4&t=7s" rel="nofollow - Part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5lW9ACWGrY" rel="nofollow - Part 2 ------------- -Spiral '89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: December-04-2017 at 5:40pm
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Google lapping in new propeller, there are a few you tubes that show how to lap it in. When done lapping be sure to wash off the lapping compound before doing your test fit each tlme. As you lap in the prop spinning it on the shaft by hand each time you wipe everything clean and inspect you will see where more and more of your prop is touching the shaft. 100% touching would be perfect. As you lap more high spots sand off and the low spots become visible. Personally when I see close to 90% looking good I call it good and install. They come off dang hard using the proper puller so I'm sure the lapping worked well. When I say 90% touching I refer to some minor pit or blemishes that are still low spots. High spots must be lapped till gone. Hope it helps. I think normal lapping would be 15-45 minutes tops. ------------- |
Posted By: Otto Throttle
Date Posted: December-04-2017 at 5:51pm
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Thank You!!! I am suffering with the flu again this week and it is a killer! I look forward to doing this now! Should the prop nut be tight against the propeller when I install it? Also is there one good prop puller to buy? I saw there was some controversy in tool to use on 4 blade vs 3 blade props. I am amazed in talking with others who have these boats and they have NEVER heard of this procedure!!!!  ------------- Otto |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: December-04-2017 at 7:42pm
I think it's kinda of a lost art. Inboards popular at one time had been taken over by outboards for years. For a long time by me there were only a handful of inboards,now with the popularity of the me too surf boats there are a ton of them. Does anyone know if Mastercraft still uses spline drive? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-04-2017 at 8:20pm
I'd read the linked thread and then get in touch with Duane and see if he has some or can make you one. It's beefy and works on 3 or 4 bladed props. Make sure you have room for it between the strut and the prop. About 3/4 of an inch is good. And make sure it works with an Acme to take care of people's concerns with that. Duane makes them from a design Pete came up with. If you can't get a prop off with one of those, you have some issues Just a recommendation, I don't work for nor am I related to Duane ....................or Pete http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37617&title=prop-puller" rel="nofollow - link |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-04-2017 at 9:45pm
| A word of caution... some of the 3/4 bolt pullers won’t work on the more raked Acme props. The leading edge of the blade extends further forward than the hub- you don’t want to be pulling on those! |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-04-2017 at 9:51pm
That's probably why I mentioned that he should check to make sure it works with an Acme . Duane should be able to tell him I had your name in mind when I mentioned the strut clearance and the Acme concern
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Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: December-04-2017 at 10:33pm
I like the "Iron Man" prop puller by A.R.E. http://www.skidim.com/ARE-PROP-PULLER/productinfo/IRONMAN1.0/" rel="nofollow - Iron Man Prop Puller Link JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-04-2017 at 10:38pm
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Let me guess, you have a 91 ranger pickup and it works for your U joints too like the ad says
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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-04-2017 at 11:54pm
Actually lapping has been around for a very long time. When they built the pyramids, sand was placed between the stone and then the stones were rubbed together to grind off the high spots.
Probably the same people telling you both?? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: December-05-2017 at 1:19pm
I'm pretty sure that's the one I use as well. I've changed 4 blade OJ, 4 blade 422, and 3 blade 1442 with it, works very well. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-05-2017 at 2:36pm
Looks a lot like this one in this https://propshopinc.com/Wakeboard-Ski-Boat-Prop-Puller-w-Swivel-by-Powertech-3-4-1-1-8-p711.html" rel="nofollow - link except for one obvious thing.....................the price tag. But then again you can find the Acme for the same 75 ish price without any trouble. |
Posted By: Otto Throttle
Date Posted: December-07-2017 at 6:03pm
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Ok...here is the scoop on this boat/prop. I have been threatening for the past several years to buy a nautique. My cousin Jim had ordered his 1998 Masters Edition new from Correct Craft. I had seen the boat only once and that was in 2004. I was looking on eBay and Craigslist around 11:30 pm Labor Day as my wife was sound asleep...I decided to punch in Ski Nautique. Up comes a 1999, and it had less than 500 hours on it. I sent it off to Jim, and he responded the next day, "that is my exact boat!" Ok now that is kind of freaky that they were exact matches...So I decided to go "fishen" and I asked about it...push comes to shove and I made an offer. He said that would be fine if the other people who were coming to look at it did not pay more than I offered. I was not going to lose a boat for a few hundred dollars, so we agreed upon a price and the next thing I know Jim and I are on our way to Indiana.. Once there everything seemed to fall into place, the test drive went well, but it had an Eagle trailer. I wanted to keep it in my garage so I needed to find a Ramlin Trailer like Jim. Next thing I know we exchange the cash and off we are going back home! At this point I was still in utter shock that I had a Nautique, let alone a carbon copy of my cousins. As we were driving home it really started setting in that I have this boat...the list of things i wanted to do to it to get it up to snuff started clogging my mind...I had not eaten all day nor was I hungry. After about an hour Jim said to me "I can't believe you squeezed the trigger on this...at the rate you were going I did not think you would ever get another boat!" The nervous laughter and my questions and his answers were turned into horror out side of Sandusky on the Ohio Turnpike...up over the crest and right in the middle of the road is a coyote...."Bam" right in the middler of Jims Navigator....both of us were in shock and we kept on driving. It seems like 10 minutes but probably only 15 seconds went buy and we said a couple of words about it and moved on. I don't think we wanted to talk about it, but it was all I could think about...I still see its face to this day. I was sure he was under the vehicle or the trailer and suffering (he was not) and I thought to myself "if you didn't buy the boat you would NOT have killed the coyote. I just wanted to be home and go to bed. When we got to my house we looked...the whole front clip of the vehicle was trashed, with lots of blood underneath the car and my trailer, and blood splattered on the sides of my new boat. I still feel bad about this today. Over the course of the next two weeks i used the boat 3 times thanks to a great fall on lake Erie. Jim found a ratlin up in Wisconsin, but i would have to keep the boat in the water and make the long drive. I was not that excited but I felt the pressure of getting the Ramlin. Winter was coming, and I hate my boats sitting outside. Again mid September night looking on craigslist...type in Ramlin....up pops a Barefoot Nautique on a Ramlin only 40 minutes away. I decide to ask him if he wants to trade...OMG the next day I see a response and it says "SURE!" Holy Crap....here we go again! two days later we are down at Portage Lakes swapping trailers! Now I have the trailer i needed and it fits in my garage. I was going over the boat and was scrutinizing the prop...hmm a little leading edge damage but no vibration at any speed..."maybe i will get it trued up..." I don't know how in the heck I went from rebuilding the prop to buying a new one. I had to outfit the boat anyhow so I really didn't have much to spend. Through some advice on the forum, the Acme 422 seemed to be hands down the best prop for my hull and my needs. $500 was more than I wanted to spend, I the Overtons 20% off black friday special ended...so I made some calls and $400 was about the best I could find...awe lets try 1 more search....up pops a craigslist ad for a Acme Dealer..."End of Season Closeout Sale" I believe it said...I dd not see the 422 on the list so I decided to call anyhow..."yes, we have one more of those in stock...$340.00 pls shipping." How do you say no to that???????? So I went for it....I bought the prop from Prop MD in Plymouth MN 952-937-9173 . I worked with Brenton and he made everything easy. Maybe he can get you one if you call him...It is supposed too be delivered tomorrow so I am stoked and a bit nervous! At least I will have a back up prop now! I hoped my OJ prop right off and was ready to bolt on the new when she came...then I was educated on the proper way to do lap the prop...again...another detour more technical stuff....I just want to have fun! I have wanted one of these since 1981!!!! So the delayed gratification of mounting the prop PROPerly will come into play... This is my story, and what a heck of a ride it has been so far!!! Thanks to everyone for answering all my questions and giving advice....I appreciate it!!!! ------------- Otto |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: December-08-2017 at 10:18am
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Cool story Otto, funny how a boat can become a pretty central part of your existence at times. Good luck with the prop, curious to hear the results on the water at some point. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: December-08-2017 at 7:07pm
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Your off to a good start! ------------- |
Posted By: Otto Throttle
Date Posted: December-10-2017 at 1:19pm
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Thanks Everyone!!!! I got the prop on Friday and I will Lapp it on when it warms up. Very interested in how she performs! Only 5.5 months until I get her out in the Cleveland area!!! ------------- Otto |
Posted By: Otto Throttle
Date Posted: July-30-2018 at 12:21am
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Update 2018....Love my prop! Smooth hole shot with lots of acceleration, Buy one! ------------- Otto |
Posted By: Otto Throttle
Date Posted: July-30-2018 at 12:22am
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Update 2t018....Love my prop! Smooth hole shot with lots of acceleration, Buy one! ------------- Otto |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-30-2018 at 7:29pm
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I have a new 422 just mounted also. I like everything about it, smooth and quiet with great power. My only complaint is I lost 2-3 MPH compared to the 224 Acme I removed but it had damage and I needed a new prop. ------------- |