Ready to pull out the original351
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42590
Printed Date: October-06-2024 at 6:49pm
Topic: Ready to pull out the original351
Posted By: Joby1969
Subject: Ready to pull out the original351
Date Posted: April-08-2018 at 9:46pm
 well cleaned out the leaves and pulled the interior out. next will be the engine.This will give me a chance to put the right interior back in it as well. It will be a slow process,but I"ll post progress pics . Any pointers will be appreciated. ------------- my 1980 SN is mad at my 2009 HD |
Replies:
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-09-2018 at 12:17am
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I saw your other post with a rebuilt engine you might buy. What is wrong with this one? ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Joby1969
Date Posted: April-09-2018 at 10:29am
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Went to start it up and realized it has water in fuel. Before I could address the issue I had to leave town for work. Water in cylinder walls sat and rusted rings to the walls. I could probably fix it with some elbow grease but it's probably better to put all new in. ------------- my 1980 SN is mad at my 2009 HD |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: April-09-2018 at 10:34am
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Water in the fuel to that level is pretty hard to imagine causing that kind of damage. Make sure you check your exhaust manifolds and intake manifold for cracks or leaky gaskets before moving them over to the new longblock or you may transfer the problem from one motor to another... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-09-2018 at 11:19am
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Could I humbly make a suggstion? Since you plan to pull and replace it anyway, and since even with the new engine you need to drain the fuel tank anyway ....... The following would take a few hours and very few dollars and might be worthwhile. Pull all 8 spark plugs. Pick up a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil and squirt an ounce into each cylinder. Leave it that way for a day, then see if you can turn the engine by hand with a breaker bar and socket. If not, squirt a bit more and wait a few days and do the same. The engine will end up turning, you can continue to turn until no unusual resistance is felt, then even spin it over with the starter a bit. Replace spark plugs, make sure you have good fuel, check the dipstick to make sure oil is oil and not a milkshake, and go ahead and start it. Assuming it starts and runs, you'll find out if you have water intrusion, also can shut it down and then do a compression test. Engines are machined parts with close tolerances, but they at times can have a remarkable ability to clean themselves up and run just fine after some abuse. Sometimes anyway. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: April-09-2018 at 11:23am
| Joe—do you thInk it’s worth spraying some penetrating oil in the cylinders, draining the gas tank and starting it up to see if all is well before pulling the engine? If his oil is not milky, from internal water leaks as you’re suspecting, he may be good to go, right? |
Posted By: Joby1969
Date Posted: April-09-2018 at 9:38pm
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63 Skier, I was thinking that as well.My concerns are the possible wall scaring. Not sure what the extent of rust is. Might just use wifes boriscope and look in each cylinder. I havent seen MMO or used it in years.Is it still at the local parts store? Might just hit amazon for some later tonight. Also,the oil is still oil. not a milk shake. The more I think about ,Im going to try it. It wont hurt. Not really any added cost. This is why I like this site.People are actualy helpful and comunicate. Thanks for the input. Itll atleast save some money if it works. ------------- my 1980 SN is mad at my 2009 HD |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-09-2018 at 9:55pm
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Yes, MMO is available at every auto parts store and a lot of box stores. I know it's old school, but I've found it works well for this purpose and is a lubricant that mixes ok with engine oil, so you don't have to automatically do a change after using it. Obviously if successful you want to do a change since you likely scraped some material off, should be caught by the filter but wise to do the change anyway at that point. If it starts and runs ok, and then you do a compression test and numbers are in a reasonable range, there's no reason not to run it with confidence. It won't get worse. There's a good chance you'll have a low compression cylinder which might force a rebuild anyway, but I'm a big believer in running them and seeing how it goes. Your main issue is that water in gas is so unlikely to have caused this problem that it's likely you'll find a water intrusion issue once it's running. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-09-2018 at 10:00pm
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A spray can of penetrating oil works pretty well too as previously mentioned by tryathlete and why limit yourself to 1 ounce per cylinder, Spray it in good with one of those little red tubes to distribute it around better And you can rock it back and forth to get things moving. Turning it backwards won't hurt anything.  If it breaks free, hook up a small temporary can of gas to the fuel pump when you want to start it if you have water in the gas as you said.. And the sooner you do this the better |
Posted By: Joby1969
Date Posted: April-09-2018 at 10:10pm
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I think the replacement fuel screw in cap i had in the origanal filler neck isnt seating right. It was raining and running off my roof and hitting the back of the boat one day. It makes more sense than anything else. Its one of those things ,Trial and error or try and succeed. Next couple weeks will tell. Ill update when I do stuff.I think the boriscope takes pics too. I know how the guys love picture. ;) ------------- my 1980 SN is mad at my 2009 HD |
Posted By: Joby1969
Date Posted: April-09-2018 at 10:14pm
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Keno, I agree. Think ill do that first then enough MMO to cover the top of the piston. Let it all sit for a few days and each day try to exercise the crank and see what happens ------------- my 1980 SN is mad at my 2009 HD |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-09-2018 at 10:58pm
Ken, not a fan of MMO, huh!  In your experience, is there anything that tends to dissolve/remove the rust once the engine is freed up? I've tended to just run them, but have wondered if there was a way to kind of "chemically hone" the cylinder. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: April-10-2018 at 7:23am
Have had my best experience un-sticking tractor engines using KROIL OIL. I keep it around in a gallon size and put it in a pump oiler. Little harder to find but I like it the best. ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
63 Skier wrote:Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-10-2018 at 7:49am
Nothing against MMO, just giving him an alternative that he might have already had so at least he could get some oil in there. I was gonna mention transmission fluid in a little pump can like Duane mentioned sine it's really high detergent but I figured that would lead to a synthetic vs non synthetic debate I'm surprised somebody whose name starts with P hasn't shown up to push the ATF/ acetone home brew. I don't think there's much you can do besides run it and change the oil/filter after it's broken free. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-10-2018 at 7:51am
http://www.kanolabs.com/" rel="nofollow - Not really ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Joby1969
Date Posted: April-10-2018 at 6:35pm
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I ordered a gallon of MMO this morning,along with some more Kroil. It seems after havin a can of Kroil forever,its almost empty when I need It the most. Ive heard about the ATF,but Ive never tried it. I saw a guy that did ,and man did that stuff put off a ton of foul smoke when he started that truck. Hopefully the rain clears out tonight and i get it all in by the end of the week.I"ll probably pull the plugs friday and get started sat afternoon. I have a few hours of work to do on the West coast sat morning then head home 2 hours drive each way for an hour of work.But buy that time everything will be dry.Then the rain comes back Sunday.Gotta love Florida summers. ------------- my 1980 SN is mad at my 2009 HD |
Posted By: Joby1969
Date Posted: April-10-2018 at 6:40pm
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Kano Kroil Penetrating Oil and Bore Cleaning Solvent is the oil that creeps. Kroil is used by the most accuracy-obsessed benchrest shooters to keep their barrels clean. Kroil creeps below the fouling in your barrel, allowing you to knock it out easily with a patch or brush. For best results when working with rusted or frozen gun parts, allow 24 hours for Kroil to penetrate. Just throwing this out there. Thanks for the input guys ------------- my 1980 SN is mad at my 2009 HD |
Posted By: Joby1969
Date Posted: April-14-2018 at 5:32pm
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Well, I just got back from the West coast with a trailer full of furniture. Loading that heavy crap has wore me out. Guess a little relaxation and then Ill be pulling plugs and get those rings soaking. Just by chance does anyone know the angle of the pistons and roughly how much Kroil Id need to put in to cover the piston. 1/2 ,3/4 ect. If not maybe the wife gets back so Can use the boriscope and look at them as I fill. I might be able to take pics of thr screen to post that way as well. ------------- my 1980 SN is mad at my 2009 HD |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-14-2018 at 6:02pm
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Easiest way is to use an old style pump oil can. Doesn't have to be any specific amount, just squirt it in every direction through the plug hole, it will find it's way around the entire ring. I'd do 5 or 6 squirts per cylinder, whatever that amounts to. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-14-2018 at 7:08pm
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You're overthinking this Squirt till you think you have enough................then give it a few more squirts. A little extra oil won't hurt anything |
Posted By: Joby1969
Date Posted: April-14-2018 at 7:55pm
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A couple squirts isnt going to fill enough to keep it soaking for any period of time. i almost want to fill an 1/8 of the cylinder. Thats more long term, Then its sitting over entire ring and piston every time I work the crank. Heading out now just got the camera. Updates soon ------------- my 1980 SN is mad at my 2009 HD |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: April-14-2018 at 8:29pm
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Go with the 50:50 mix of acetone & ATF. Easy and fairly cheap. It will do a great job at loosening up frozen parts. JQ [ please, no debates about synthetic ATF or standard... ] ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-14-2018 at 9:02pm
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Maybe use 20% Kroil, 30% acetone, 26% ATF, 20% MMO, and 4% Miller Lite. Honestly, as Ken said, just slap some in there and you'll be fine. It's not complex. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Joby1969
Date Posted: April-14-2018 at 9:27pm
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OK I poured and sprayed plenty. I was just looking for a rough angle of piston so I would use enough to cover, Ill just spray more each day. pistons and wall didnt look bad at all.. Ill post pics after this, If its not rust making cylinders stick, any Ideas? ------------- my 1980 SN is mad at my 2009 HD |
Posted By: Joby1969
Date Posted: April-14-2018 at 9:35pm
    ------------- my 1980 SN is mad at my 2009 HD |
Posted By: outerbanked
Date Posted: April-14-2018 at 11:23pm
| The angle of the rings or piston top would be the same as the angle of the lower edge of your heads. |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: April-15-2018 at 8:51am
These are 90* engines. 45* each side. ref: With piston at the bottom it would take about 13 oz. to cover it. Some pistons will be near the top and the valves would be open so it would not hold that amount before spilling out. Just like KenO says, pour some in and be done with it. My guess is that you will have to pull it apart anyway ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: April-15-2018 at 8:23pm
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I have a 1966 327 that I broke loose last year after it had sat for 35 years. Soaked with Kroil, PB Blaster and finally learned about the 50/50 acetone and ATF mix. The 50/50 mix worked the best and finally got it freed up. Recently I learned from a very serious engine builder that I could have soaked my cylinders in " Coca Cola " for 1 to 2 weeks. He said the Coca Cola can eat a nail if given enough time but he said it will attack the rust very quickly and clean not just the cylinders but the piston rings without hurting anything. Coke is a low grade acid. Said he has used it many times over the past 40 years working first for GM and then for a Performance Engine Shop. He said I could have saved a lot of time on my 327 freeing it up. If someone else had advised this I may have considered him a fruit cake but not this guy. ------------- |
Posted By: outerbanked
Date Posted: April-16-2018 at 1:12am
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Posted By: Joby1969
Date Posted: April-19-2018 at 10:26pm
I used to use it as meat tenderizer. Never would have thought that it would be a rust penetrator.I still havent had the time to add MMO.guess iI have plenty of time.Boats not going anyplace.might try The 50/50 too. ------------- my 1980 SN is mad at my 2009 HD |