1962 Interceptor transmission
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4587
Printed Date: October-05-2024 at 3:51pm
Topic: 1962 Interceptor transmission
Posted By: cmattoon
Subject: 1962 Interceptor transmission
Date Posted: August-22-2006 at 8:27am
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I have a 1962 Compact Skier with a 170 Interceptor and a mechanical transmission. The problems are that neutral is actually only in neutral if I hold the shift level in one specific location, and the transmission is starting to slip under load. Does anyone know how to adjust the transmission, or who I should send it to? I am in western MA.
Thanks ------------- BWB |
Replies:
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-22-2006 at 8:59am
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it may be an old mechanical paragon, is there a tag? I personally do not know of any other mechanicals in that time period, can you take a snap shot of it? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: cmattoon
Date Posted: August-22-2006 at 9:19am
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There is no tag, outside or in. No stampings or cast numbers that I have found. I'll photo it today.
------------- BWB |
Posted By: cmattoon
Date Posted: August-22-2006 at 9:27am
 ------------- BWB |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-22-2006 at 12:45pm
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chris, can you pop the top and snap a picture, it does kinda look like a paragon and they made many different style trans. the thing is, is they may have supplied the internals and the engine manufacturer may have supplied the case, I'll definitely be able to tell with the cover off ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: cmattoon
Date Posted: August-22-2006 at 4:11pm
 ------------- BWB |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: August-22-2006 at 4:16pm
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chris you might want to e-mail it directly to Eric so he can blow up the picture and have a better look, see what he says might be large enough already. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-22-2006 at 5:21pm
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definitly paragon guts, ixe or sao, still parts available, try adjusting the reverse also to possibly free up the nuetral, only try one notch at a time on the forward, a little goes a long way. if you adjust to much you may break the apply fingers ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: August-23-2006 at 9:47pm
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if all else fails i have the org. tranny out of my '64 am. skier,think it is a " duromatic" replaced w/VDrive.complete w/mounts. should be a drop in affair,and not take away from the stock setup you have....boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: skook
Date Posted: October-17-2010 at 11:23pm
| Anyone know what the resolution was? I bought a 1962 Correct Craft Compact Skier w/ Ford Interceptor (same setup mentioned in post) this past July and I experience the following trans symptoms/issues: (1) trans slips while operating past 1200rpm, sometimes have gotten up to 2000rpm, (2) when in neutral, the trans is slightly engaged in forward, so basically when the boat is started in neutral, it wants to go forward (if engine is reved, the drive shaft won't turn at speed of engine, (3) if I pull the lever back, I find a spot where it is "not engaged" but it sounds like reverse is just starting to engage. I have some pics I'll post. I did not yet take the top cover off, but will do so soon to show everyone the guts for ID purposes. |
Posted By: skook
Date Posted: October-17-2010 at 11:29pm
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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-18-2010 at 10:12am
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Andrew,
Pull the cover. You will find two adjustments. The reverse brake band is pretty obvious. Tightening it will give you the reverse. On the forward clutch pack, you'll need to rotate the drum untill you find a locating pin. Removing it will allow you to tighten the drum. (large threads on the outside of the drum). Tighten one knotch at a time untill the trans "knuckles" over when you push the shift lever forward. Hopefully you haven't allowed the trans to slip to a point where the clutch plates have overheated and warped. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: skook
Date Posted: October-18-2010 at 12:37pm
| Would tightening the drum make the issue I have in neutral even worse (partially engaged)? Without knowledge of this transmission, and I have not yet taken off the cover, I'm thinking that the partial engagement in neutral problem could be potentially warped plates? What are the symtoms of having warped plates? All of the symptoms I described were there when I bought it, so the damage was done before me...and I hardly used it. I forgot to mention in original post that reverse works perfectly fine. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-18-2010 at 1:47pm
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Andrew,
The slight prop spin forward in neutral may be warped plates from slipping/overheating. You won't know untill you open it up and play with the adjustments. It's a "fine line" with the settings. Where are the pictures of the boat?? We want them!!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-18-2010 at 1:50pm
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BTW, Do not use a synthetic oil or any friction modifiers in the engine (the trans uses the same oil). A good oil with a high ZDDP level such as Valvolene VR1 20-50 is a good choice. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: skook
Date Posted: October-18-2010 at 11:48pm
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Not sure what kind of oil was put in by previous owner, but I agree that its definitely worth changing to rule that out. I will pull the cover this weekend and have a look (and will post pictures). I suppose you're saying I won't be able to determine if the plates are warped with just a visual inspection? :( I'm not a speculative kind of guy, but if the plates are warped, I suppose I need to pull the trans completely out to rebuild? Are the parts usually available?
On a separate note, I read several of the threads on winterizing. I didn't see anything about older engines like the 62 Interceptor. Would you happen to know where the drains are on this engine and if the new best practice for even the older engines is to use AF? Previous owner said he just disconnected the hoses but it seems to me there will still be water in the block. I'm sure this is the hot topis/debate this time every year! Thanks for all of you help! Pics on their way. Andy |
Posted By: skook
Date Posted: October-18-2010 at 11:53pm
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Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: October-18-2010 at 11:58pm
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There are 3 drains, one at the front of the block on the port side, one at the rear of the exhaust manifold, under the outlet, and one on the bottom of the water pump. Drain them and disconnect the hoses. I pour antifreeze into the engine but let it drain out. ------------- |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-19-2010 at 12:53am
I think thats how all 6cyl Fords run,right Steve 
Seriously tho guys are these trans clutch plates plain steel or do they have cork facings? I'm thinking a http://valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/motor-oil/motorcycle-atv-oil/13 - motorcycle oil might be good for the wet clutch plates. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
skook wrote:Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-19-2010 at 8:52am
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Andy,
Unless the plates are really warped, you may not be able to tell without pulling the trans. From the looks of the red rtv between the trans case and the engine, it looks like someone has already had it off. When you get the cover off, engage the forward and see if you can get a feeler gauge between the clutch plates. They alternate steel and most likely bronze in that model without any facing. BTW, you need to drain the engine oil before you pull the trans. Bruce is correct on the draining. Plates should not be a problem. The trans is a Parragon. Stick with a oil that's more traditional and very similar to the older oils like the VR1. People have problems when they put the fancy stuff in!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: October-19-2010 at 7:21pm
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nice wooden windshield... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: skook
Date Posted: October-19-2010 at 10:34pm
| LOL I plan to replace it with a piece of flat plexiglass...or if I can locate an original/replacement for a decent price, I'd like to do that too...for now, need to get my trans working properly before I start bugging everyone on where I might find a 62 compact skier windshield replacement...although I'm all ears for good advice! |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-19-2010 at 10:54pm
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Andy,
Concentrate on the trans for now. Regarding the windshield, that's going to be a real tough one. Hard to find and expensive if you do find one. Unless you plan on putting in the time and money to bring all the needed items back to original for a restoration, the windshield may not be worth it. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: skook
Date Posted: October-25-2010 at 1:33pm
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Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: October-28-2010 at 2:47am
Ouch! Gary, actually, I got the old 6 banger up to redline a few weeks ago. Still has a high speed flat spot, but I think that is in carb adjustment. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: October-28-2010 at 3:03am
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Andrew, do you know what type of rubber fuel line is run from the fuel pump to carb? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-28-2010 at 2:45pm
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there is the one other adustment for the handle to keep it at the balance point of on the side, the weight will apply the forward and drag ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: skook
Date Posted: October-28-2010 at 3:38pm
| I think you misinterpreted what I was saying about 2000 rpm. The engine runs superb and has lot's of power and torque. It will easily run at a higher rpm. The problem is the trans slips at the lower rpms. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-28-2010 at 4:18pm
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Andrew,
I mentioned the "knucking" over when you put it in forward. Does it or can you just push the shift lever easily into the forward position? Have you checked to see what kind of oil is in the engine? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: October-28-2010 at 4:53pm
Dammit steve what was the answer..how you gonna leave us hanging like that! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-28-2010 at 5:02pm
A 6" pitch prop!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: October-28-2010 at 5:11pm
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Time to go back to your thread and update us. ------------- |
Posted By: skook
Date Posted: October-28-2010 at 5:21pm
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The shift lever pushes easily into the forward position with a consistent/even feel to it. By "knucking" I assume you mean when the shifter feels like it has a home when you engage it---like it "clicks/thumps into a position"?...Engaging into forward does not currently behave that way.
I'm not sure how to determine what kind of oil was put in, but I certainly plan on pumping it out and replacing. Is there a way to type the current oil??? I'm still struggling with the idea that tighening up the drum will fix the whole problem. I suppose it would fix the slipping problem under load, but I'm not sure how the problem I have with the prop being gently engaged in neutral will go away---still seems to me that'll stay the same or just get worse. In an earlier post you mentioned putting a feeler gauge between the plates. I don't even see the plates. Does anyone have access to a manual or exploded diagram so I can see whats what? It seems like the plates are hidden by the drum? |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: October-28-2010 at 5:43pm
Bruce, http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19000&PID=244518#244518 - here ya go .... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: skook
Date Posted: October-28-2010 at 9:01pm
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Did some homework and this is my best guess of how this trans works. I'm sure many of you know this, so don't be offended...I'm writing this mostly to confirm my understanding. I believe its a planetary transmission that works similar to the original transmissions that were in the first cars, as well as transmissions in some older steam rollers. The reverse is engaged by locking the reverse drum/gear and thus forcing the three planetary gears to turn, thus forcing the drive gear to turn, thus driving the driving plate, drive shaft, etc. Stepping up or stepping down the gear ratio would make it "creep" forward or reverse...In this application, only reverse is necessary. That's also why reverse sounds so "whiney"...you're essentially driving the drive shaft through gears. In forward, you're activating the clutch disks that essentially make a "direct drive" between engine and drive shaft (1:1 rpm), and instead of the planetary gears orbiting and turning, they just orbit. I think its a fair assumption the clutch disks are enclosed in the drum in the center of my picture, so visible inspection isn't possible within disassembly.
Here's a great article that shows the same in principle/theory http://www.modeltcentral.com/transmission_animation.html#animation More thoughts to come... Andy |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-28-2010 at 9:18pm
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Andy,
Your concept on the trans principle is correct. By "knuckling" over, I mean the lever will lock over what feels like a detent. There really isn't one as it really in the linkage. Tighten the drum ONE notch and see what happens. Once locked in forward, you do not need to maintain pressure on the shift lever. If reverse is adjusted correctly, you have to hold the lever in the reverse position. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: chazcheadle
Date Posted: March-24-2011 at 4:45pm
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Hi, all
I am trying to adjust my Paragon/IXE? transmission and have the same guts pictured here inside. I can't figure out how to rotate the adjustment disc to put the set screw into the 'next' position. Does anyone have hints on how to do this? thanks so much! -chaz |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-24-2011 at 4:54pm
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Chaz,
You need to get some large screw drivers or small pry bar into the front half to hold it while prying on the rear. Welcome to CCfan. What boat is the trans in? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: chazcheadle
Date Posted: March-24-2011 at 4:59pm
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Its a 1968 Cheoy Lee. I've had more luck finding info on the transmission from Correct Craft and Chris Craft sites than any other.
Do you mean to hold the rim/hub that the set screw sits in stationary and rotate the propeller shaft? or another part? I can't quite see how to fit anything in to get a purchase on the actual disc the set screw holds to turn it. The actual paragon manual pictures a set screw that is perpendicular to the shaft and the castle nut/adjustment wheel is big and its teeth exposed. thanks again! chaz |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: March-24-2011 at 5:04pm
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Cheoy Lee? thats got sails, doesnt it?... you dont even need a trans ... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: chazcheadle
Date Posted: March-24-2011 at 5:08pm
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The sails only work when there is wind, which only happens when I'm at the office. :+)
-chaz |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-24-2011 at 5:35pm
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Chaz,
What you are doing is tightening up the clearance between the clutch plates. They are internal of the drum with the big 5 to 6" threads on it. The front (outside) needs to be held stationary while the back (inside) is rotated. Looking forward, it needs to be turned clockwise to tighten. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: chazcheadle
Date Posted: March-24-2011 at 5:55pm
I found this image somewhere else on the internet. I have loosened #1. Would getting a screwdriver into the slots in threads be what you meant by holding the forward end stationary? again, thanks for the guidance! -chaz |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-24-2011 at 5:59pm
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Chaz,
I believe the #1 bolt on that model has a pin on the end of it. It needs to come out and not just loosened. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: chazcheadle
Date Posted: March-24-2011 at 9:30pm
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Yatzee! I the bolt is long and must be pretty far out to allow the jub to spin in/out (or rather tighten/loosen) As I have to hang over the top of the engine and and am doing this upside down, and feel for the holes blindly whilst balancing to not fall headfirst into the bilge... I got it adjusted! Now, to finish putting the engine back together and test it out!
Am I right in thinking the forward and reverse adjustments are somewhat connected as far as they are balanced over the 'neutral' zone? Can I adjust one and test it before touching the other? or must they be adjusted at the same time? thanks! chaz |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: March-24-2011 at 9:55pm
Chaz, sounds like you should get an old Correct Craft! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: chazcheadle
Date Posted: March-24-2011 at 10:06pm
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Haha< as
I wrote that it did occur to me that a C-Craft would not have the troubles. But, we can't live aboard one. :+) -chaz |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-24-2011 at 10:52pm
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Chaz,
Leave the other adjustments as is at this time. Get it running and see what happens. It's very rare they need any adjusting. They were set up at the factory when the trans was brand new to take care of manufacturing tolerances. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: chazcheadle
Date Posted: March-24-2011 at 11:04pm
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I've adjusted the forward shift feel so it no longer takes the extreme jerk/yank it used to to engange. Now at the transmission it feels more like a smooth detent/knuckling over. In reconnecting the rod linkages I determined the weight of the shift lever in the cockpit keeps steady pressure on the transmission towards forward- that slight leaning seems to be what is pressing the forward clutch enough to make the propeller spin and move the boat forward in 'neutral'. So perhaps the lever/linkage system needs to be set to balance the lever at 12TDC to keep the transmission from engaging either way. I have read that the Paragons don't have a real neutral, but a zone where there is no pressure on the forward or reverse clutch discs.
more fiddling! thanks, -chaz |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-25-2011 at 9:08am
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Chaz,
You do want the shift to knuckle over in forward. How far did you move the drum position? You do not want the clutch plates to slip. Reverse should not detent and require you to hold the shift lever maintaining pressure on it. There is a neutral but the position of the shift lever is critical. Where did you hear they didn't have a neutral? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: March-25-2011 at 10:02am
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if you pull the shift lever into reverse it will hold the drum so you can spin the adjusting collar.
to concur, some Paragons will also knuckle into reverse depending on model, at times I have seem them adjusted to far thus not letting them knuckle into reverse (over-adjusted) ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-25-2011 at 10:23am
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Chaz,
Eric is correct that the trans can be adjusted to knuckle over for reverse however, I understand the reason you do not want it to is for safety. This was taught to me way back in the late 60's from one of the "old" guys at the marina I worked at. Then through the years at several ACBS tech seminars and one Power Squadron safety talk. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: chazcheadle
Date Posted: March-25-2011 at 10:43am
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One place i read that is: http://www.chris-craft.org/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=5050 - here .
Though I am unclear if there should be a positive lock into reverse. At the moment, on the transmission pushing the lever all the way aft will lock in reverse- so I guess that is correct. I had read that reverse is supposed to be held at the lever to engage and there wasn't a real lock. I wonder if the main problem is that the shifter lever sits at 9o'clock for 'neutral' and its weight pushing down is slightly engaging forward. There isn't much play in the linkage so where or how do you add in a positive feeling neutral position? Am I totally missing something? -chaz |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-25-2011 at 10:56am
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Chaz,
One thing are haven't mentioned is oil!! What do you have in the engine??? The new modern and especially the synthetics are bad news for that old manual trans. They will cause the clutch pack to slip!!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: chazcheadle
Date Posted: March-25-2011 at 10:57am
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Knuckling into reverse is fine with me, and seems to be how this model likes it. I had started all this investigation as I wanted to know why the boat moved forward in idle, and that the feel of shifting forward at the lever never really locked- just got stiffer and stayed. I was afraid that not feeling it lock would allow it to pop back into neutral. after running for year since getting the boat it never did pop back out, but I wanted to know if it could be made to have a more positive feeling shift.
After playing with the lever on the transmission with the linkages disconnected I discovered: -it took bodily weight to shift into and out of forward and reverse -neutral (no friction on propshaft, it was easy to turn by hand) was achieved when the lever was at 12o'c -moving the lever fore/aft more than a couple of degrees began adding friction on the propeller shaft making turning it by hand impossible. -there was not firm feel to this neutral position, just letting it rest at 12o'c after adjusting the forward clutch tension: -it took less force to shift into forward at the transmission, but not too light as I thought that might lead to slipping. -at the shift lever in the cockpit now there is a definite feel of knuckling into forward. I just hope I'm not adjusting too many things at once and not being scientific enough in my troubleshooting. It has been very helpful hearing from others their experience in handling these transmissions and how they work them- things the manuals never get into. thanks, chaz |
Posted By: chazcheadle
Date Posted: March-25-2011 at 10:59am
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The engine and transmission both have Rotella SAE 30W in them.
-chaz |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-25-2011 at 11:07am
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Chaz,
Ok, you're good with the oil. If I'm reding correctly, you lossened up the clutch pack so it didn't need as much force to put the trans in forward correct? If so, just keep watching and listening for any slippage. Everything sounds normal and typical of a manual trans. Run it and see what happens. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-25-2011 at 11:08am
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BTW,
What engine is the trans on? An Atomic 4? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: chazcheadle
Date Posted: March-25-2011 at 11:13am
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Whew! Sounds like I'm heading in the right direction (some pun intended).
The engine is a Westerbeke 4-107, we call it Satan since was a real pain in the but when we first got it, and its red. :+) -chaz |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: March-25-2011 at 12:09pm
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Chaz,
the Paragon in my 64 will not lock into reverse - You have to hold the lever manually. You have yours where it does knuckle? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: chazcheadle
Date Posted: March-25-2011 at 12:30pm
| It has always knuckled for me, and from looking at the mechanism, it looks like this behavior is normal- at least for this model. Above, Eric mentions that some models should have a positive reverse lock and that some of those that should may be over adjusted and not lock. Presumably then, some models do not possess a positive reverse lock at any adjustment level. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-25-2011 at 10:09pm
Chaz, Didn't Westerbeke buy the manufacturing rights from Universal and continue building the Atom 4? I seem to recall that running across that when I was reseaching a raw water pump I needed for the 1927 Universal I rebuilt. The Atomic being such a "blow boat" engine, I'm not up on what happen'd with the Atomic.------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: March-26-2011 at 10:39am
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well, first off its good to see 3 pages of transmission do's and dont's, but i have assessed that the knuckling in was probably more designed for the twin screw boat.
I swear i spent 2 hours and maybe 15 calls on a Paragon mechanical on a blow boat, and the guy was trying to adjust it 3 weeks ago in St Pete, he never new it knuckled and he owned the boat for 35 years...it always dragged, but he did get it to the point that it did knuckle into reverse and balanced the linkage so it would not drag, I can only make recomendations and he felt there would be no safety issues when the trans knuckles in. these trannies are tempremental and do take some time to adjust them correctly, but they do have a sweet spot. I still have a ton of mechanical stuff laying around and parts are still available new. the biggest problem i find when i tear into them are the sloppy planetaries and shafts...easily fixable. but i sloppy trans is that much more harder to adjust because of slop ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: chazcheadle
Date Posted: March-26-2011 at 3:04pm
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Is there a point at which you can tighten the forward and reverse in a way to close in on that sweet spot? As it is it seems that there is no resistance or knuckling at neutral and the slightest wiggle either way will start engaging the clutch.
-chaz |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-26-2011 at 7:39pm
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Chaz,
There isn't a detent for neutral. Yes, it only takes a slight movement of the shift lever to start engaging forward or reverse but, more at the helm. A good example would be running a mechanical on dry land. If run for any length of time, the vibrations will normally throw the shift lever forward or backward causing the prop to spin. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: dillrepair
Date Posted: May-14-2012 at 3:21am
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okay... hopefully y'all are still around... after hours of searching this is the first place i've come that actually seems like it might have some knowledgable people to ask about my Paragon SAOV attached to my westerbeke w30 in the belly of a Cal 34 III. I'm hoping someone can tell me if i'm going in the right direction. as of now it will engage into reverse but you have to apply too much pressure to the lever (imo)... pulling it hard back. I sucked out some ugly black gunk out of the transmission with my oil extractor and replaced it with dexron III. Was this a mistake? the placard on the transmission says to use automatic transmission fluid, but who knows what that means with a 34 year old transmission. I want to make sure i haven't filled it with the wrong fluid first off. if i did what should i do? and second will the adjustment mentioned previously by chaz in this thread be enough to fix it? I haven't taken the cover off to see if the guts are the same. Right now i'm out of town for a few days. I'd really appreciate everyone's advice, and thanks much in advance. -Pat |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-14-2012 at 8:56am
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dexron will be fine, do a couple flushes to get the gunk out ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-14-2012 at 8:58am
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if you have further questions, call Paragon (great lakes power) 440-951-5111 ask for chuck in parts ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: dillrepair
Date Posted: May-20-2012 at 5:40am
| yeah that was my next step... i suppose the simplest things always occur to me last. anyway thanks much for the advice.. i'm going to try adjusting things in the next few days and will get back on here with results. |
Posted By: chazcheadle
Date Posted: May-20-2012 at 3:43pm
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I forgot to post this last year regarding my transmission project: http://svmolamola.blogspot.com/2011/03/in-satans-evil-clutches.html" rel="nofollow - Satan's evil clutch Another thought occurred to me The transmission is not a reducing kind, so it doesn't change the direction of the shaft output, would that have any bearing on how the forward and reverse engaging behaves? Knuckling into forward and holding to keep reverse would seem to be the desired behavior, but are opposite in how the unit seems to function. Or is that just crazy talk? Chaz |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-20-2012 at 5:09pm
Chaz, No it doesn't matter if the trans is a reduction, yes it is "crazy talk" and yes you need to understand the basic marine trans. Whether it's a mechanical or hydraulic if you get a chance, I suggest you find some exploded views and study them so you understand how both work. Rotation doesn't matter. When the forward clutch pack engages, the input shaft is coupled to the output shaft. When the reverse clutch engages, the planetary gear set takes over. The input rotation goes through this planetary reversing the input and then out the back. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |