'79 SN Commander Build
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46894
Printed Date: March-09-2025 at 9:58pm
Topic: '79 SN Commander Build
Posted By: Off Trail
Subject: '79 SN Commander Build
Date Posted: October-12-2018 at 10:35am
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After all of the feedback I received on my first CCFan post - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46870&title=how-to-make-my-79-commander-sound-like-a-73 I've decided to move forward with heads, intake, 1.7 roller rockers, muffler delete and some cosmetic work on the boat this winter. I am fairly mechanical and have worked 'on' a lot of motors - 2-stroke snowmobiles, Subaru turbo's, Cummin's Diesels etc - but have never worked 'in' a motor. This will be my first time pulling heads. I'm hoping some of the members who have done work on their 351w can keep me on the right path, so I'll be posting my progress. Let me know when I'm headed for the ditch.... So far I have ordered the following: Heads - https://www.ebay.com/itm/351W-FORD-GT40P-4-BAR-PAIR-OF-CYLINDER-HEADS-F77E-1-2-HEAD-BOLT-HOLE/253925306147?hash=item3b1f20af23:g:PxcAAOSwstxVKRiX:sc:UPSGround!20011!US!-1:rk:1:pf:0 Intake - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-2181 Roller Rockers - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-44746-16 Timing Chain Set - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/CLO-9-1138 Bolts, gaskets, etc -https://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G1579HS https://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEL-1250 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEL-35067 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G1418 |
Replies:
Posted By: Off Trail
Date Posted: October-12-2018 at 10:42am
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Questions: -I believe I need Autolite 764 plugs for the new heads? -Any reason to buy replacement head studs? Is that good preventative or a waste of time and money? -I plan to replace the fuel filter, but the current one is mounted down on the stringer and facing backwards so I can't get a number off of it. Anyone know what it should be? If not I can wait until I dig into things. |
Posted By: Off Trail
Date Posted: October-12-2018 at 10:48am
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Now for the cosmetic stuff - I've found a few threads on removable swim platform brackets - just one stupid question - Is my boat the same as a Ski Tique? I believe it is a standard '79 Ski Nautique, just want to make sure it is the same thing..... I'm also hoping to find a fold-down or fold-up spotters seat to access the front storage. Maybe I'm bad at searching, but I didn't find anything. Anyone have any experience with this? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-12-2018 at 10:56am
Aaron, The Tique is the shorter version of the Nautique. Both never had folding spotters seats. The seats where fastened to brackets on the sole with threaded knobs making them adjustable fore and aft and reversible. Hinging won't gain that much space due to the foot "toe" board. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Off Trail wrote:Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-12-2018 at 11:02am
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Autolite 764 is good for plugs The heads have bolts not studs, I'd reuse them, but you could get new ones if so inclined I'd also read the thread in the link dealing with getting a good seal between a Performer and carburetor or spacer. 2 plates are mentioned one is from Jeg's (there's a link to it in the thread) and the other one pictured in the thread is an Edelbrock. Either will work and you'll save lots of frustration by having one. The carburetor gasket in one of your Summit links looks like it might be big enough but you'll need more than 1. 2 gaskets if you use a plate, 3 if you use a plate and a spacer on top of that. New fuel line from pump to carburetor since the old one won't reach if it's the original metal line ( Edit oops he has a rubber fuel line in picture from his first thread and Commander 351s came with rubber fuel line) http://correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46776&title=carb-spacer-to-intake-gasket-issues" rel="nofollow - link You'll also need a timing cover gasket set |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: October-12-2018 at 11:12am
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Another note, Since you haven't done heads you will want to pick up the proper sized tap for the head bolt holes. You will use this to clean out those holes. Also, wire wheel the threads on the bolts to clean them up if you are re using the bolts (which will be fine). You then will use normal motor oil on the bolt threads to ensure you are getting proper torque on the bolts. They catch and give inaccurate readings if you use dirty bolts/threads. Another note, study the way Ford head gaskets go on. They are the same gasket but go opposite sides down on either side of the engine to properly route the water. Basically use the gaskets to block off the cooling passages as at the front of the block and keep the rears open. If you don't you wont over heat the water temp but you will over heat individual cylinders without knowing it. As Ken mentioned on the fuel line, I was able to re bend the factory line on a 351/performer/stock spacer setup this spring and it worked just fine. Give that a whirl with your existing line. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-12-2018 at 11:39am
I too have been able to re bend a metal line. on my 302 which is the same as the 351. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: October-12-2018 at 12:16pm
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Good luck on removable brackets. That guy is impossible to get ahold of. ------------- Please support The Cystic Fibrosis Foundation 1976 Ski Nautique 351 Escort 1993 Ski Nautique purple and black 351 HO PCM |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-12-2018 at 12:59pm
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And..............while you're at it, since Zach mentioned head gaskets, don't forget to buy some They weren't on your shopping list of things you ordered 
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Posted By: MourningWood
Date Posted: October-12-2018 at 1:34pm
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Just did a 351 this past several months. If not already mentioned, the EDL 2181 is taller than stock manifold. If you use the carb spacer, be sure there is room under motor box. ------------- 1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun" 'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!" |
Posted By: gt40KS
Date Posted: October-12-2018 at 10:45pm
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Aaron - First thing on your list - I've got that exact same pair I purchased last winter for my head swap. Ended up getting a full long block complete with the 40P's and don't need the other set. They already have a couple coats of red on them but you can always repaint. I figure I can get them out of my storage and save you some $$ so if you're interested shoot me a PM. ------------- JCCI 1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: Off Trail
Date Posted: October-13-2018 at 11:06am
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Thanks for all the responses! Keno - Thanks for the heads up on the plate. Got the edelbrock plate and 2 more gaskets ordered. Question - Is there any reason to keep or leave out the carb spacer? I do not want to modify the engine cover so if the spacer creates a clearance issue is there a performance penalty for removing it? phatsat67 - Thanks for the heads up. Any idea what size threads the head bolts are? Definitely planned to wire brush if they are messy, but didn't think of a tap. Keno/phatsat - I'm looking at head gaskets on Summit Racing and they offer a couple thicknesses (.039, .041, .051) and a range of prices. Any recommendations? |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-13-2018 at 12:40pm
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You won't go wrong with FelPro marine head gaskets. One part number is 17060 and they're .049 inches just to throw another number at you. The marine ones are said to resist corrosion better with stainless steel in all the right places. And while you're at it get a FelPro 90000 gasket set . I don't think these were on your shopping list and you'll need them. I won't tell you what they are but install them shiny side out ]Head bolts are 1/2-13 for one of your other questions One other thing, I wouldn't worry too much about bending your rubber fuel line, it should be real easy. Your fuel line may or may not be original but Commanders came with rubber from the factory. You could do a search here on CCF about USCG fuel line requirements, rubber is OK if done right with the right USCG approved hose and fittings |
Posted By: Off Trail
Date Posted: October-13-2018 at 8:49pm
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Thanks Keno. Manifold gasket seems like a reasonable idea! Got everything mentioned ordered, including a thread-cleaning tap set that has a 1/2"-13 Will remember to use motor oil on reassembly. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-13-2018 at 9:10pm
Aaron, I feel money better spent would be on a tap and die set. A cleaning tap won't cut threads but a regular tap will plus chase (clean) existing threads. So, if the time ever comes and it will when you need to tap some threads, you'll have the needed tools. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: October-13-2018 at 9:32pm
| Agreed Pete. I’ve used cleaners and prefer a tap. Seems like it does a better job. |
Posted By: Off Trail
Date Posted: October-14-2018 at 1:55pm
| Appreciate the tips guys, but the thread-cleaning set is already on the way. If I need to do a real tap job I will likely buy a better quality (and much more expensive) tap set. |
Posted By: Off Trail
Date Posted: October-14-2018 at 2:01pm
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I've been trying to figure this out for a week by searching and really didn't want to ask the questions.....but How the heck do I access the mufflers? I don't have the boat in front of me right now, but last time I looked it over I couldn't find any separate floor panels, or even screws around the edges. It seems like one big solid piece that has been completely carpeted over. The boat does have the ski boxes on the sides, so maybe I need to pull those to find screws?? Does my '79 have the full fiberglass floor? Every thread I have found just shows the stringers after the floor has been ripped out, so I can't figure out what step 1 is. I would hope to pull enough of the floor to remove the mufflers and clean up the bilge, and then reinstall without having to recarpet/replace any of it. Not sure that is in the cards? If I have to pull the carpet, tempting to go with some seadeck to replace it.... |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-14-2018 at 2:36pm
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Aaron, Access to the mufflers is done by opening up the sole (floor). there aren't any access panels. Has anyone asked you about the condition of the stringers? have you checked them? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Off Trail
Date Posted: October-14-2018 at 2:51pm
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8122pbrainard - I assumed you were from Minnesota based on your name, but just looked at your signature and saw Three Lakes. I'm from Wisconsin and spent summers in Minocqua skiing with the Bats. I have several friends from Three Lakes and used to get over to the chain occassionally. I'm also the one responsible for getting the Bats to move their sponsorship to Nautique and Three Lakes Marine in the early 2000's when I was president of the club. Once I get this '99 all dialed in I plan to bring it back to my parent's place in Minocqua for at least part of the summer. Boating just isn't as fun in Colorado, and not many appreciate a boat like this! Back to the task at hand - I'm very well aware of the stringer issues in the old Nautiques. Everything seems pretty solid in this boat, but I have not made it past shining a flashlight around in the bilge and tapping on things I could reach. The previous owner had an inboard specialist do some poking around (I don't know to what extent) and he was pretty confident everything is solid. All areas of the floor are solid as much as I can tell. The boat was owned by one family, and being a Colorado boat has always lived on a trailer - so it theoretically never had water sitting in it. Fingers crossed. When you say 'opening up the sole' - is this a destructive process or can it be unscrewed and removed intact? I thought I was going to avoid being one of those threads where my boat ends up stripped down to the hull!!! But I do have a heated garage and 8 months of winter coming..... |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-14-2018 at 3:01pm
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Aaron, It's not a unscrew job. More of a destructive one!  Interesting regarding the Minocqua Bats! What Three lakes marine was involved? Watercraft Sales? FYI, my last name hasn't anything to do with the similar towns name. There's is spelled with an E and mine with an A. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Off Trail
Date Posted: October-14-2018 at 3:43pm
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Dang. So if I want to get into the back bilge more than the round access hole, I'm tearing carpet up and then tearing floor up.... Is there any chance of slipping the mufflers out the front without pulling the motor? I just talked to the original owner and he said the boat is a '79 and was owned by some type of military camp in Indiana. They would buy 3 brand new boats every year, put a ton of hours on them, and put a new motor in at the end of the season and sell the boat with the brand new motor. So, supposedly it is a '79 boat with an '80 motor. Don't think that impacts anything I'm doing, just a tidbit. Watercraft Sales is the one. Can't remember the guys I worked with, but I think the main sale guy moved to Florida. |
Posted By: fanofccfan
Date Posted: October-14-2018 at 4:09pm
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Interesting on the floor above the mufflers as my 78 has to my knowledge always had a separate floor part that comes out allowing access to bilge from motor to fuel tank. I just replaced that piece last winter in fact. I assumed it came like that. ------------- 2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-14-2018 at 4:38pm
Aaron, Now I'm not too sure about what's over the mufflers?? My 77 did not have a removable section. Tim should be by soon and I know he will have some input. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-14-2018 at 7:26pm
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Well if we're comparing years, I had a 76 that had a removable section that screwed down to the secondary stringers and you had to lift the carpet to get to the screws then you could get to the copper tubes. Bought it from a friend when it was less than a year old so I knew it's history from day one. Pete, maybe the PO of yours did what's that you call it? Oh yeah, a hack job when he did the stringers
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Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-14-2018 at 7:30pm
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For OffTrail what's your HIN on the right side of the transom? The last 2 numbers will tell you the model year |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: October-14-2018 at 7:33pm
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If you have mufflers its not likely they were foamed in and glassed over, I suspect if you probe carefully with a needle or small scribe that you can find two seams under that carpet maybe a bit outside of the motor box running from the rear of the motor box back... if you remove the rear panel and or rear seat it might be obvious where the seam is. If your carpet is otherwise good I would cut along those seams with a razor knife and then peal back center panel side of the carpet from the seams until I found the screws that held it down. When you are done you put some black carpet trim on the ends of the panel and put it back in... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: Off Trail
Date Posted: October-15-2018 at 12:30am
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So, KENO - Yours came with copper tubes from the factory? Or were those added at some point? I'll get that HID when I bring the boat home in a couple days. Great idea Joe, thanks. P.O. said he had it re-carpeted about 10 years ago, so I bet they just ran it right over the center panel and glued it down. I'll do some investigation. Thinking if I do cut, i will cut the carpet an inch or so onto the center panel, fold and glue the 1" left on the outsides down to the stringer, and just recover the center panel. Maybe that would be a good place to test out some seadeck. |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: October-15-2018 at 12:39am
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http://christinesmarine.com/carpet---flooring.html The black rubber trim halfway down would have been stock, attach it to the sides of the rear panel and itll cover the edge of the floor, no need to fold over the sides or get too crazy if the carpet is still in good shape. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-15-2018 at 8:14am
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Copper pipes with carpet remnants tie wrapped around them front and rear for reducing vibration from hull contact was the setup in 76. It was color coordinated though
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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-15-2018 at 9:32am
Aaron, I'd like to add that this was pre muffler. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Off Trail
Date Posted: October-15-2018 at 10:11am
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Right, Just curious as I'm deciding between copper and stainless for my straight pipes. On the vibration dampening note - what is a good modern material to use for pads under the new straight pipes? I imagine they can get a little warm on the outside, especially copper? |
Posted By: Off Trail
Date Posted: October-15-2018 at 10:41am
| Joe - Didn't realize the trim you were talking about was a rubber strip. I'll go with your recommendation to cut right at the seam. Makes sense now that I see the rubber trim. |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: October-15-2018 at 10:50am
| Just get some of the cheap black indoor/outdoor carpet from Home Depot etc. and wrap the pipes like normal. Buy it in bunk size cut if you need to replace the trailer carpet. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: October-15-2018 at 11:14am
| The OD of stainless (tubing) will match the ID of the hose at 3”. Copper (pipe) will be larger and will require a wrestling match to get it on. And it’ll be significantly more expensive. Since the tubing/pipe is smaller diameter than the hose it usually didn’t require any wrapping to prevent rubbing. It will sit 1/4” or so off the bottom. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-15-2018 at 11:31am
------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Off Trail
Date Posted: October-15-2018 at 3:05pm
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Couple more ??'s: 1) Do the valve covers have gaskets? 2) Never got a response on this one - do I need to retain the carb spacer? Someone commented that I may have motor box clearance issues with the new intake, plates, and factory spacer all used. Is there a performance reason that I need to keep the spacer in there? |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-15-2018 at 3:30pm
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You'll have valve cover gaskets if you buy them. I was gonna mention a day or two ago that you should have bought a complete Felpro marine gasket set and saved some trouble but you already bought stuff and asked questions later[ Go back to my post on 10/12 @902am and the link there talks about the spacer. It's not needed but the plate is |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-15-2018 at 3:52pm
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A couple of other things You really should buy one of the books that are available on rebuilding small block Fords. Plenty of good info even if you're not doing a complete rebuild. Usually around 25 bucks And, your stock valve covers may not clear the new roller rockers.but you won't know till you try. |
Posted By: Off Trail
Date Posted: October-16-2018 at 2:37pm
Bummer. I was trying not to ask too many questions. I had read about the gasket kit, but forgot about it when I was actually on summitracing buying stuff. Also - I had read that post you linked, but glossed over the comment that - 'removing the plate does not affect mixture'. Good to know, plate will go in a box with the mufflers.....as soon as I figure out how to get this damn floor up. P.O. had new carpet run right over the old carpet, and up into the sides behind the ski shelves. Because there are 2 layers of carpet, I can't find the seam to cut. I'm going to tear it all out when I'm ready to park the boat for good. 42 degrees and sunny today, so I think I'll have to take it out for a shakedown ride. |
Posted By: Off Trail
Date Posted: October-19-2018 at 12:03am
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This is a carryover from the other thread I had going about exhaust, but I'm going to consolidate all my issues/question/comments in this thread. So I finally got a look at the prop and it is an Acme 542. The P.O. must have spent some time on CCFan or got some good advice elsewhere. So....I don't need to buy a prop at least. Question - if all goes well and I'm gaining 15-20% horsepower with the heads, rockers, intake - will I need to prop 'up'? Or will the increase in HP just increase RPM's, and I'll settle in at 5,000 RPM and get my best top end.  Wishful thinking or likely scenario? As I mentioned before, I'm currently getting 40 mph (unloaded, 2 pax) at 4,500 rpm.
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Posted By: Off Trail
Date Posted: October-19-2018 at 12:12am
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Someone will probably post the link that I should have found, but I swear I searched.... So that sticker on the side of my engine says 94 Octane. I guess I missed the era when you could buy 94 Octane. What does everyone run in these 351's? I can buy ethanol free 91 Octane, which is what I run in my other boat and all small engines. I can also buy 88 Octane non-E. Being at high elevation I know I am safer running lower octane and can get a little performance bump doing so. Is it worth playing with the 88 Octane or am I asking for trouble? I'm assuming these engines don't have a knock sensor like the Malibu does? |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-19-2018 at 12:44am
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You missed the era when gas was rated by the research method and 94 was regular gas The sticker was printed in 79 and gas was rated by the research method back then Nowadays it's R+M/2 to get the octane rating. R+M/2 is always lower than the old research method You know what works for you at 8200 ft in the other boat, I'd go with that assuming that's what you're using now And your lack of knock sensor assumption is right |
Posted By: Off Trail
Date Posted: October-21-2018 at 2:38am
Got a nice warm day, so had to get her out for a spin before I start taking things apart. 
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Posted By: Off Trail
Date Posted: October-21-2018 at 2:42am
  
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Posted By: Off Trail
Date Posted: January-20-2019 at 2:37pm
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Finally started on the dirty work. I pulled 'newer' carpet that had been laid right over the original, and then peeled up the back half of the original carpet. I was hoping to stop at the seam near the pylon for now. For this winter I want to focus on the structural and mechanical, and make sure I have a good-running, solid boat before I spend the time and energy pulling the whole interior apart. So, plan would be to clean out the bilge hull thoroughly without pulling any more floor, then do the heads/intake/exhaust/new carb, put some removable/temporary carpet in the back for one summer and call it good. Long term I would like to redo the floor covering throughout, which will require redoing the side carpet, all the way into the bow, etc. I took some pictures of the progress and was hoping someone that has more experience with stringers, floor work etc. could tell me if they see any red flags, surprises, etc. in the photos. Everywhere I can touch and see them the stringers seem solid. The scupper holes through the stringers have a very small amount of mush (quarter-sized) at the bottom, but the sides and top of the hole feel like dry solid wood. That's good, right?? I'm assuming there is still foam hiding under the outer glass floor, outside the secondary stringer? In my long-term plan I will cut up the outer glass floor and clean out whatever is under it - but I'd rather save that for next winter. Any thoughts?    
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Posted By: Off Trail
Date Posted: January-20-2019 at 2:38pm
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Basically hoping you guys can call out anything that doesn't look original (like the chunk of treated 2"x16" between the stringers), looks like it needs attention, etc. Thanks! |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-20-2019 at 3:26pm
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Aaron, It sure looks like the PO has been doing some work in the bilge. Yes, that 2x isn't original and nether are the furring strips on top of and on the sides of the stringers. What's the removable panel aft of the engine look like? Beyond a visual, what have you done to check the condition of the stringers? http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25247&title=stringer-inspection-video" rel="nofollow - Here's a link to Tim's video on checking stringers. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Off Trail
Date Posted: January-20-2019 at 9:48pm
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The removable panel is 1/2" plywood and is in good shape. The pink/tan carpet (maybe not original) was glued to that plywood, as well as the glass floor on the sides. I have not inspected the stringers that thoroughly to be honest. Basically looking, pushing on, tapping anywhere I could reach. I will read that thread and look a little more closely. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-20-2019 at 10:03pm
| Looks like significant structural work has been done to that boat... all sorts of unoriginal going on (and yes Carpet definitely is on that list). |
Posted By: Off Trail
Date Posted: January-22-2019 at 12:17am
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Thanks guys. TRBenj - Can you pick out anything more specific or would you need better photos? Wondering if you see any signs of fiberglass work, or if it looks more like stuff added outside of the glass? By tap-test the main stringers seem solid, thought I haven't made it all the way under the gas tank. |