Rear main seal.
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Buy and Sell
Forum Name: Boat Parts Wanted
Forum Discription: Parts wanted only
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46902
Printed Date: December-04-2024 at 2:53pm
Topic: Rear main seal.
Posted By: Joby1969
Subject: Rear main seal.
Date Posted: October-15-2018 at 9:47pm
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Ive looked for one on skidim and nautique parts..........nada on either.Any suggestioins? ------------- my 1980 SN is mad at my 2009 HD |
Replies:
Posted By: Joby1969
Date Posted: October-15-2018 at 9:55pm
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https://www.alexsparts.com/rear-main-seal-marine-reverse-rotation-351w-viton-full-round-one-piece-main-seal/" rel="nofollow - https://www.alexsparts.com/rear-main-seal-marine-reverse-rotation-351w-viton-full-round-one-piece-main-seal/ I think this is the right one.. ------------- my 1980 SN is mad at my 2009 HD |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-15-2018 at 10:11pm
If this engine of yours from the "Let the journey begin" thread is an 80 it has a 2 piece rear main seal Have you verified whether it has a 1 piece seal or a 2 piece? If it's 1 piece reverse rotation then that seal will work, it's been used by a number of people on CCF If it's a 2 piece seal you have, well you probably know the answer 
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Joby1969 wrote:Posted By: ArtCozier
Date Posted: November-06-2018 at 10:32pm
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If it's a Ford, the changeover from 2-piece to 1-piece seals was made about 1984. ------------- "Art" |
Posted By: ScottZ
Date Posted: November-14-2018 at 11:51pm
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You are correct on that Art. Mine is an 84 and I just got one from skidim. Mine is one piece. If you have the older motor which requires the two piece you can get it from NAPA, It is smooth but will work. Been there and done that as well. ------------- Scott Zuelzke Lake Mitchell , AL 1984 Ski Nautique 1972 Skier |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: November-15-2018 at 4:46am
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Fel-Pro makes and sells the two piece and the one piece standard rotation seals. On the two piece are they different for std and rev rotation? Fel-Pro is available at almost every Auto Parts store and can be ordered even if they don't have it in stock and usually same day or next day delivery. ------------- |
Posted By: Joby1969
Date Posted: November-16-2018 at 10:37am
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I don't think the 2 piece seals are rotation specific. I'm putting engine back together soon. Works gotten in the way of important things lately. ------------- my 1980 SN is mad at my 2009 HD |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: November-16-2018 at 10:46am
| 2 piece seals for your 351w engine don't care which way the engine rotates but some places want to sell you a "special" 2 piece reverse rotation seal for a "special" price. |
Posted By: Joby1969
Date Posted: November-16-2018 at 10:53am
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That's what I thought as well. I love those special parts at those special prices. Makes me really warm and fuzzy inside when I'm offered any of them. ------------- my 1980 SN is mad at my 2009 HD |
Posted By: ScottZ
Date Posted: November-16-2018 at 11:32am
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If you use a standard rotation 2 piece seal that has the grooves in it you will have oil in the bilge. The reverse rotation seal is no longer available. That is why you use the smooth 2 piece seal. ------------- Scott Zuelzke Lake Mitchell , AL 1984 Ski Nautique 1972 Skier |
Posted By: ArtCozier
Date Posted: November-16-2018 at 12:18pm
OK, if I knew how to post a photo here I would, but I'm looking at an old PCM parts book. There is a line drawing of crankshaft and related parts showing a 2-piece rear main seal, key #18. In the parts listings there is a part number for a LH engine (R047042 and a RH (R047041). . It's on Pages 10 and 11 in the parts book that I'm looking at. Price sheet lists $8.79 and $9.77 respectively. So, in those days, you could get the correct seal for 98 cents extra. I remember because they were coded with a paint spot on the back side. One color was yellow; I don't remember the other Yes, I know that the RH seal is no longer available from PCM. If you have to, you can have the knurling taken off the crankshaft and use either a rope seal or a non-directional one. The two-piece seals can be installed in an assembled engine by removing the cap from the rear main and loosening the bolts on the other main bearing caps Lift the crank slightly away from the block and slide the upper seal half around the crank. Offset the joint between the seal halves from the surface between the rear main cap and the block surface by maybe 1/4 inch. ------------- "Art" |
Posted By: ArtCozier
Date Posted: November-16-2018 at 12:22pm
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Correct, Scott. (See below) ------------- "Art" |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: November-16-2018 at 5:13pm
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Here's a really good picture from a couple of years ago courtesy of mbshaw with some words to go along with the picture A whole bunch of people on here have used a normal rotation 2 piece rear main seal in a reverse rotation application with the wick lines Edit The seal in the picture is installed backwards, the lip should be facing in towards the engine
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Posted By: ArtCozier
Date Posted: November-16-2018 at 6:12pm
According to the literature I have from PCM (see my post) the 2-piece seals are rotation specific. As I understand it, both directions are rotation specific, but the smooth ones are not. I don't know what is available recently. ------------- "Art" |
Posted By: ScottZ
Date Posted: November-16-2018 at 7:09pm
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Correct Art. I recently used a smooth one and it worked fine. You have no choice but use the smooth one if you do not want it to leak. ------------- Scott Zuelzke Lake Mitchell , AL 1984 Ski Nautique 1972 Skier |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: November-16-2018 at 11:12pm
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The wicker lines are know as the Helix, at least that is what the Crankshaft grinders I knew called them. They are designed to use the rotation to wick the oil back away from the seal and into the engine oil pan. Some cranks use the Helix, most to not. Some seals have similar lines built into the seal face for the same reason and makes them one directional. If used in reverse they actually help oil pass and leak. ------------- |
Posted By: ArtCozier
Date Posted: November-16-2018 at 11:24pm
Spot-on correct. In addition, looking at the photo in the post previous to yours, if I am looking at the photo correctly and the crankcase is to the left in the photo, it appears to me that the seal if facing the wrong way. The lip of the seal is at the very edge of the "wick lines" while if it was turned around it would be in the center of them. My experience with seals has always been that the lip faces the oil to be contained. ------------- "Art" |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: November-16-2018 at 11:38pm
I agree 100% with youArt, on the seal being installed wrong in the picture I posted of mbshaw's seal installation. The lip always goes in towards the inside of the engine. The lip rides right over the wick lines, illogical as it might seem. Kinda wonder how his seal is doing these days. The FelPro BS 40042 has nothing in the rubber to make it directional and works with either rotation these days. And the directions say the lip goes in unlike that picture I posted. I'll post a picture of the perfectly smooth BS 40042 and ask that somebody post a picture of a Ford 2 piece seal with wick lines in the rubber. 2 piece Chevy seals are a good example of the lines being in the rubber |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: November-16-2018 at 11:54pm
Here's a fairly lousy picture of the lip side Here's the other side 
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Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: November-17-2018 at 4:28am
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Look Inside the seal. This is a 2 piece seal, there should be an outer lip designed to keep the dirt outside and an inner point that is your actual sealing surface. Fel-Pro would advise you to install that seal slightly rotated, 3/8 inch so the parting lines of the seal don't line up with the parting lines of your main bearings. Use a very small film of silicone on the parting lines, where the upper and lower 1/2 of the seal touch each other. It helps seal a potential leak path. If you use too much it will create a leak or if any gets on your helix it will leak the main cap and the block should be clean and dry where they mate and a very thin film of silicone should be used there also to keep the block from leaking oil between the cap and block. so be careful with your application and work quickly once you apply the silicone so it is not starting to set up before you torque the main caps. Of course some assembly lube should be used on the crankshaft bearings and the new rear main seal before dropping the crank in. If you don't have assembly lube good clean oil is OK. Many rear main seals are ruined on start up when they are installed with no lubrication. Rotate the crankshaft after the bearings are torqued. It should rotate free and pretty easy. I hope you get it running again soon. ------------- |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: November-17-2018 at 4:49am
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This is a Fel-Pro 350 Chevy Performance 2 Piece Rear Main Seal with Helix lines. Note when installing these type seals lay them in the groove and look at the seal. Looking from the flywheel at the seal it should show a solid face. If you see the V of the sealing lip from the flywheel it is in backwards. The V cut should face the Oil side, inside the engine. In the Photo you can see both seals with the V facing the top of the picture. That is the V that should face inside the block towards the oil. The V Sealing lip is circled in Red. the circle shown is pretty faint sorry. I hope the wording on this is clear. The V is the part of this seal that seals your oil inside, the other lip on the outside of the seal is to keep contaminants out so dirt does not get in and cause wear on the sealing surface. [uploads/14769/2_GM_350_Performance_2_piece_rear_main_seal.jpg[/IMG]  ------------- |
Posted By: Joby1969
Date Posted: November-17-2018 at 8:09am
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Well I'm going to pick up the seal today after helping a friend get some stuff done. Fel-pro 2 piece seal. ------------- my 1980 SN is mad at my 2009 HD |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: November-17-2018 at 8:22am
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So where's the Ford picture Mark? I already said the Chevy 2 piece had helix/wick lines. The FelPro BS40042 for a Ford that you can buy at any parts store is a different animal Here's a picture of the end of the seal A picture and explanation of a Chevy seal with wick lines, just adds confusion to this particular thread about a 351W 2 piece seal,  |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: November-17-2018 at 3:09pm
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Sorry Keno, I am a Chevy guy, 2 327's, one 350, one 400 SBC and a 5.3L but my 351W Ford has not broke so it is still assembled. The seal in your picture looks like one of the hybrid seals, a modern version of the old rope seal, it sits in a smaller groove with no hard outer case. ------------- |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: November-17-2018 at 7:51pm
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You Chevy guys, you're all alike The Ford seal takes the place of the earlier rope seal. It fits in the same groove, you just have to knock out one locating pin in the cap so you don't damage the seal if you're replacing a rope seal with the rubber one. I'm just kinda a mongrel, cross breed when it comes to brands Seems like I have more GM land vehicles than Fords. That had something to do with simple things like spark plug access on an F150.with the Triton engine. Had my share of Chrysler products over the years too Don't you know anybody at FelPro Mark who could tell you what the difference is between the 2 pc Ford seals for normal and reverse rotation other than part numbers?. I've got the feeling I'll be waiting a long time for the pictures to show any actual difference otherwise |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: November-18-2018 at 12:56am
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I do have contacts in Fel-Pro, and they have a help line that has good techs with access to blueprints and engineering if needed. 1 800 325-8886 M-F 7:30-4:30 Central time. I did not realize the Ford stayed with the original rope grooves for a Rope Seal. Why not run a Rope Seal they are bi directional? After leaving the note earlier I was waiting for someone to point out the FORD will keep running so I do not need to know what is inside. I really like the 351W for a Boat motor it is near perfect. My first Ford 351W 78 Nautique needed heads at 1100 hours but with new heads still ran like a top when I sold it with 1,500 hours. Put 800 Hours on a 350 Chevy in our Malibu, it never needed anything at all in that time other than the impeller every other year. Still ran like a top when I sold it. ------------- |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: November-18-2018 at 1:01am
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Keno, if there are no Helix lines on that seal you are holding it should be fine either direction. I don't see anything that indicates a directional seal on the one you are holding. ------------- |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: November-18-2018 at 8:52am
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So kinda summing this up, the FelPro 2 piece seal BS 40042 has no wick/helix lines, never did, never will and it works fine in either direction. It's not new news, people have used them for years in normal rotation and reverse rotation engines with no problems as long as the seal installation is done correctly. A 351 engine with a one piece seal is a whole different story not meant for this thread but discussed plenty of times here onCCF |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: November-19-2018 at 5:20pm
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I agree Keno, the two piece is now covered. If you are replacing a one piece seal and it is std rotation the best available seal is the Teflon Rear main Seals, Fel-Pro has sold these for 20 years now. They do not cause wear on your crankshaft at all so the seal will never fail if installed correctly. Teflon are definitely directional seals so do not install one on a reverse rotation engine. The boats with the 1.23 Tranny are std rotation and this seal would be perfect for them. Teflon has a unique install procedure so don't install one without reading up, it is easy but different from all other seals. ------------- |
Posted By: Joby1969
Date Posted: November-20-2018 at 10:52am
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I ordered the feel pro 2 piece seal and it came in yesterday. Didn't have time to pick it up. Florida gives kids this week off for Thanksgiving. Never did that when the majority of us went to school. It's caused some issues in getting other things done. Anyway,ill get some pics up asap guys. ------------- my 1980 SN is mad at my 2009 HD |