New Ignition System -HELP - NO SPARK!!!!
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4692
Printed Date: November-23-2024 at 8:46pm
Topic: New Ignition System -HELP - NO SPARK!!!!
Posted By: JR_VIC
Subject: New Ignition System -HELP - NO SPARK!!!!
Date Posted: September-04-2006 at 2:27pm
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Over the weekend I removed my Pro Tech system on my 92 SNCB w/ 351W carb motor and did a complete ignition system upgrade. First, I ordered the new PCM conversion wiring harness allowing me to remove the old harness with the Pro Tech wires in it. I spoke to Both Mallory and Crane and with their recommendations I installed the Mallory Marine YLM554CV magnetic breaker less distributor. I decided to go with the Crane HI-6M marine CD ignition along with their recommendation for a coil for this system which is the PS92 high performance coil. Crane stated that I do not need to use a ballast resistor using this CD ignition box and PS92 coil. Both instruction sheets also show no wiring diagrams using a ballast resistor unless it is a points application.
Long story short, after much frustration the engine will not start. I hooked it properly and even had a technical friend review the wiring install and it looks to be hooked up properly. The system is not producing any spark at all. The engine just turns over fast and has no spark at all at the spark plugs. It appears it is getting no spark from the distributor or trigger. On the front page of the Crane CD ignition instructions it states: "THE HI-6 IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH ANY ODD FIRING ENGINES OR DISTRIBUTORLESS IGNITION SYSTEMS". My a$$umption is leading me to believe that for some reason the Mallory Magnetic Breaker less distributor system is not compatible with the Crane CD ignition/Coil set-up but I really don't know for sure. Does anyone know if this Mallory MBI distributor is considered a distributorless system or if my 92 Ford 351W is considered to be odd firing? I believe the firing order starts out 1-3-5 so is this odd firing? Maybe it does need a ballast resistor all though I hate those things from using them as a kid on our race cars. They get old and crack or fail so I would like to stay away from them but may have to use one. I can't try one at the present time because I don't have one to experiment with. I'll Crane and Mallory on Tuesday but in the mean time if anyone has any suggestions to pa$$ them my way as this has been driving me crazy to not get the boat running after all of this work. On the new PCM wiring harness it has two purple wires that show to be ignition wires on the diagram but I have been told those purple wires are for using a ballast resistor and because I don't have one they are not hooked up at all. Thanks in advance! |
Replies:
Posted By: SS-201
Date Posted: September-05-2006 at 6:35am
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I have both on one of my boats, Crane box,coil, and Mallory are compatible. However NEVER check for spark to a plug or it will blow the computer chip. Always disconnect the battery while working on electronics
.Look for the trigger red light on the Box to be sure its on and flashes while starting engine. If is isn't you have not connected the unit properly. The box is the trigger source not the distributor. They work with or without the resistor, however the resistor is recommended. Call Crane tech or go on line they will help you out before you destroy the chip ------------- SS 201 |
Posted By: SS-201
Date Posted: September-05-2006 at 7:28am
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Also BE sure you have the latest Mallory distributor the older optical aren't very reliable. ------------- SS 201 |
Posted By: Derby
Date Posted: September-05-2006 at 6:43pm
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Uhh...are you sure the dist is installed correctly? you could be off and the rotor is missing the cap. ------------- So It Goes! |
Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: September-07-2006 at 2:07am
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Your 351W is NOT an "odd fire" engine. Only a few odd fires where ever built and the only ones I can think of were V6's. The early 3.8 liter Buick and Chevy (although not the same) were odd fire engines.
Distributorless means just that! There's no distributor. The ignition system uses a set of coils (usually 1 for every 2 cylinders) and fires them from a CDI module (or ECM) which gets it's inputs from sensors on the crankshaft and camshaft. So you can rule out either of these as being your problem. Double check all your wiring to make sure you are getting power to the CD box and make sure the CD box is getting triggered to fire the coil. If you have a test light, connect it between ground and the CD trigger lead and make sure it flashes as you crank the engine. Write back if you need more help. ------------- 95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: September-07-2006 at 2:32am
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I'm not an expert but if you're not using a balast resistor don't those 2 purple wires have to be twisted together. Usually when you bypa$$ a resistor you put both of those wires on the same stud on the resisitor. Purple is ignition Right? they can't be left unattached can they? ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: September-07-2006 at 2:51am
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81, you are exactly correct. That circuit has to be complete. If you remove the resistor without reconnecting the wires from either side, the coil will not get any power (depending on how the CD is wired in). I haven't looked at the wiring diagram for the Crane CD box, but I can't imagine it being any diffrent than the MSD. Any MSD unit (using the MSD coil) allows you to completely do away with the resistor even if you are still using the points (for whatever reason). But he should have gotten a wiring diagram from crane telling him how to wire the thing up. If the wiring diagram for his particular application wasn't included with the Crane module, it should be available online. MSD's diagram are available online no matter what application you have. Not trying to convince you to switch products, but I'll bet you can look at their diagram and figure out your problem. ------------- 95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
Posted By: SS-201
Date Posted: September-07-2006 at 7:31am
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I have run and tested that equipment. For what its worth, call Crane and they will walk you thru the process. As I have stated before the instructions are clear. Hook up the ballast before you possibly damage any more.
However you may already blown the chip in the CD or the distributor unit. Quit listing to all other suggestions, CALL Crane you may have damaged the units already they are not warrantee thru negligence. If you need more a$$istance I will give you a number to call. ------------- SS 201 |
Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: September-07-2006 at 8:30am
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Here is a link to a pdf file on line that should have everything you need to ensure your CD module is wired correctly. It also has instructions to diagnose the system if you are still having issues. Please write back if you are still having problems. Or you can write me personally at nuttyskier2002@yahoo.com. ------------- 95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: September-07-2006 at 8:34am
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Sorry, forgot to iclude the link on above post. Here it is: http://www.cranecams.com/pdf/90006000e.pdf#search=%22Crane%20HI-6%20Wiring%20diagram%22 ------------- 95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
Posted By: JR_VIC
Date Posted: September-07-2006 at 2:34pm
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Spoke with Crane tech and they said the Crane ingnition will NOT work with the Mallroy MBI ignition unless you disable the advance mechanism on the Mallory distributor. The tech told me the HI-6 ignition is primarily designed for Mercruiser big block engines and has 6 or 7 curves built in that give the engine more power. Since I don't have a Mercury then the only thing the ignition box will do is offer a rev limiter, the ability to add an aftermarket knock sensor, and the ability to add a retard device. He said the spark energy comes from the coil and the distributor and not neca$$arily the ignition box but again the ignition box is useful by adding performance oriented timing curves for Mercruiser engines. I bypa$$ed the igntion and ran straight to the coil and it fired right up...interesting.
Thanks!!! |
Posted By: SS-201
Date Posted: September-07-2006 at 9:27pm
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Glad you got straightened out They were talking about the Hi- 6M CD box, the Hi-6 CD box has no curves built in. The HI-6m box is for Mercury with 6 curves. I use the H-6 with the DEC 9500 computer . ------------- SS 201 |
Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: September-07-2006 at 9:28pm
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Good to hear you got it going! Good job! ------------- 95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: September-07-2006 at 11:08pm
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way over your head on the ign, waisted money most likely,stock factory cam and heads I bet too.. over kill... added performance?? zero?? 50% less????? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: JR_VIC
Date Posted: September-10-2006 at 5:48pm
I agree of your comment stating "way over your head". That is why before I purchased I spoke with Jegs tech department who in turn referred me to Crane tech department and in turn referred me to Mallory Marine tech department. From past experiences, it is not uncommon before a purchase is made some parts people without being 100% sure will say that various parts are compatible then to find out later they may not be compatible after the consumer (myself) explains the symptons or problems. This is the case here as well, even though both Crane and Mallory BOTH stated this system is compatible and will work in my current application as well as mods I am adding in a few months before hand it did not work after the fact. I called both Crane and Mallory back after the fact and they then said, based on the problems you are describing it looks like the Mallory igntion will not work with the Crane igntion etc. I called Jegs and they gave me return authorization. During this scenario I found out from another member on this site about the Performance DUI distributor which after speaking with them directly they confirmed that there product will work perfect with my application both now and with my mod upgrades here in the fall. I ordered it, installed it, and the boat fired right and souds great so far. Just curious, why so rude in your comments. I don't think what you say is a problem but just how you say it. I can take it...but I am just here enjoying the forum with others without tyring to be difficult. My .02... Thanks!!! |
79nautique wrote: