worn valve stem
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46988
Printed Date: November-21-2024 at 7:03pm
Topic: worn valve stem
Posted By: GottaSki
Subject: worn valve stem
Date Posted: November-08-2018 at 1:57pm
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huh..found my noise.. one of these things, is not like the other...  Anyone have a good used 1.45" 351W exhaust valve and a pedestal rocker laying about i can buy and compensate to put in a box? ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Replies:
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: November-08-2018 at 4:36pm
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I would be shocked if I didn't - what vintage are you working with there? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: November-08-2018 at 6:27pm
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Yay! This is an '82 model year PCM Joe ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: November-08-2018 at 11:17pm
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Sadly I found nothing, apparently the scrap yard got them, only factory ford heads I found on the shelf are 351m from 78 - and 289 heads from 65. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: November-08-2018 at 11:23pm
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Thanks for looking Joe! ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: November-09-2018 at 8:21am
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I figure you could get a new valve and rocker arm from a reputable outfit like Melling or Sealed Power just for a couple of examples, for around 20 bucks total through about any local auto parts store, so why go used? Maybe a little more with that CT state tax thrown in.  |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: November-09-2018 at 10:06am
You have to be careful letting new parts into your engine, they are like shots of Tequila, once you let in one new part next thing he sneaking friends in pretty soon you have aluminum heads, a cam, and an intake on a perfectly good engine. Better just to never open the parts book up. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
KENO wrote:Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: November-09-2018 at 11:54am
Well said Joe, Believe me, my 'head ' is spinning, GT40P, Flo-Tek, AFR, P38,...  Best I keep the turd polish in the bottle Yeah Ken, that may be just what to do ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: November-09-2018 at 1:33pm
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What would make 1 stem wear so much faster than the others? A bad lifter? ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-09-2018 at 1:54pm
Yes, you do need to be careful with your thinking as Joe mentioned. Pretty soon he'll have you thinking towards something like this:   ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: November-09-2018 at 1:55pm
I suspect Tom either knows or will know when he takes it apart - Could be a material defect somewhere,, rocker, valve stem - ear starts and once you aren't pushing polished surfaces things start go bad.. but not likely Could be lack of oil through the pushrod serving the rocker worth checking the lifter and the pushrod, Or either the rocker sticks/has stuck at one point or the valve sticks/has stuck at one point . ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: November-12-2018 at 12:38pm
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Almost embarrassed to say, its Its made noise since i acquired it. ..Two decades ago. but this its the first year I committed to taking it apart Appears no more collateral damage other than the affected pieces expected a worn cam lobe, but not this. I suspect a bad lifter started the issue, But it will get a new Cam and lifters, maybe p heads, or just the valve and rocker, not sure yet. heavy budgeting post divorce and kid still in college ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: November-12-2018 at 6:31pm
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The valve is stuck down, That is normally outside influence. If someone started that engine with old gas in the tank this can happen. Old gas turns to varnish when you try to run it. The varnish coats the valves and valve stems. It makes them stick. Then a piston can tag them, now the valve is bent and will never close. With one bad valve you can run and ski with 7 good cylinders, a little weak and rough idle but not too bad. I did it for half a summer years ago while I gathered parts for my preferred repair. A broken valve spring can do the same thing. They can break due to a factory defect or due to an over rev situation. You are doing all the work to fix it, take a little time and do it right. You never hear anyone complain because they fixed it right. But on the other hand............................... ------------- |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: November-12-2018 at 9:58pm
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Seems like there's a club of CCFans that have run 7 cylinder 351's. Not a bad engine all things considered! ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: November-13-2018 at 5:22pm
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Looking at your photos again it is odd. Nearly a 1/4 inch of your valve stem is not there but the spring is still on which means the keepers are still there. That is a rotocap design on the spring. I wonder if the wrong valve was installed at the wrong installed height to begin with or if the valve tip has worn down that much. What does that rocker arm look like?? I have never seen a valve tip wear like yours. I have seen them wear at a slight angle at high miles but never 1/4" gone like that. ------------- |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: November-13-2018 at 7:04pm
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I don’t have the experience of you Mark but is it possible the other valves have lash caps on and this one is missing? Does not look beat up enough to be running that way for the last 2 decades. Pictures can be deceiving, I’m sure Tom would know the difference...... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: November-14-2018 at 4:20am
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I would not think a lash cap would be more than .080 thick. Looking at his picture it appears to be .250 lower than the other valves. Something is wrong. ------------- |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: November-14-2018 at 10:19am
The hypothesis that PO installed wrong valve is looking pretty plausible. Could he just have tightened down rocker excessively & got it to work OK for a while? ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: November-14-2018 at 2:41pm
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Oh my, I hadn't considered that it was incorrect from a repair long before i got it I'll take some closeup pictures, for posterity. Plus its fall, what else we going to discuss Remarkably little wear on the rocker, but it feels as if the original profile is slightly worn. May be a day or so ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: November-14-2018 at 3:16pm
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may be able to swing some p's from Tri state if i can use this cam on my shelf I have unused rhodes lifters, and this, is 302 firing order  Whoops, i thought i fixed the image orientation. The ex dur is 224, seems clipped What do you think? ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-14-2018 at 3:30pm
| Seems healthy enough to me, a good bit better than stock. |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: November-14-2018 at 4:43pm
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I think Ford used the lash caps on Exhaust only? ------------- |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: January-11-2019 at 11:18am
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Thanks men, been a while, but I think i've sorted on a plan of action. My aim is firstly to get it operating solidly while going though the trouble, exercise my long desire to remove substantial weight from the boat to make it even more spectacular for slalom, and a tangible but not scary power increase in two steps. secondly to make some more rpm available as it runs out of steam very early. For this season.. stage 1 ... First install these 4 parts i have had in hand and had gotten at a steal a long time ago when i first considered attacking the noisy valvetrain. the hyd flat cam above with the rhodes lifters, Roller chain and oil pump. So that just costs me some gaskets. Inspect and gauge the mains while its open. This '82 351 has as-expected cylinder ridge but no bad jugs or slugs. recall this is a LH engine Regarding 'budget' heads, I had considered the tri-state large-valved GT40P, and TS Flo-Tek 180 203505 with 1.94 Intake valves, the edelbrock e-street, and lastly TF twisted wedge 170. For both low weight and decade+ durability chose the TW 170 with 58cc chambers vs 61 cc. for a modest amount more than the others, it has the longevity of good guides, valves and can be setup for roller cam someday with just new springs plus has 2.02 intake valves. Appears with this < .500 lift cam, i wont have issues with clearance to these stock pistons. Looks like my pistons are heavily dished, flycut, and also look to be put on a lathe and another circle cut out of the them even deeper than the dish, so appears to be 18cc or more is gone, hence choosing the 58cc chambers vs 61. 1.6:1 Scorpion rockers Edelbrock performer or weiland stealth, std pcm manifolds. net about 85-90 pounds gone from intake, heads, and rockers. and get this sorted out by spring. Stage two will be another season or three away, but utilize the top end above except the intake, which i should find a new home for easily. This will go upon a 331 stroker shortblock with the appropiate TW pistons for clearance, and dished to keep the 9.3 cr. Now the system can go roller cam inexpensively and go .550 lift. With the lower deck height, i can go to a taller duel-plane intake like an air-gap. Aluminum front cover and convert the sherwood pump with a new flange to work like a crank-driven Johnson like indmar does. Save 70# on the shortblock, and another 20# on the iron front cover and pump bracket. 180# or more total is gone at this point. This step will be to maintain the improved power while finally loosing the combined weight of one grownazz man from the boat. well thats my secret evil plan right now heh, I know, , you'll shoot my eye out kid.. Any inputs on if i should set the Cam straight up or +/- any degrees off? and of course any other considerations would be welcome to complete the thought experiment before engaging ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-11-2019 at 11:49am
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Sounds like a good plan. Be aware that the stealth is the performance (and height) equivalent of the performer RPM so if you’re looking to save height, the standard performer is the way to go at 1” shorter. I wouldn’t be afraid to go a little higher on CR when the time comes... haven’t found an issue running in excess of 10:1 with 93 and reasonable timing. 9.5 ballpark still ran fine on 89. |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: January-11-2019 at 3:47pm
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Good to hear Tim I see, yeah i'd like to keep the 4-hole spacer in use if possible, so lower is better else i run out of height Ok, I'll keep that cr in mind! ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: January-11-2019 at 5:56pm
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If more power is needed why not jump to a 351W block. As they say there is no substitute for cubic inches if you want more power. A built 351W will out run a built 331 every time. ------------- |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-11-2019 at 6:39pm
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I think something is lost in the translation Mark,he says he has a 351 now, later stage 2 will be a 331?? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: January-11-2019 at 8:34pm
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Yeah, thats correct, a weirdo huh? Situation is I'm not pulling multi footers nor have a hull that i trust at sustained very high speed, just want enough to have some fun, maintain and lighten the slalom tug, and pull a single footer 38-40 if desired, and that would be fairly infrequent By step 1 ill have the power bump i desire, just want to keep it about 20hp window when going to a fresh shortblock., and drop weight further. I think the modern roller cam help negate the 1/4" less stroke and make it sort of a wash. Numbers seem consistent that the 302/331 is about 70# off a 351 You see my boat is right at the cusp of eliminating side spray that can be a nuisance shortline with a skiable headwind. I've noticed when extra lightly loaded, its very much reduced. Soooo i get thinking. its been over a decade, time to do something Wake is great, even for my ladies at 28-30mph, but, even greater is even greater. Its hobbying at this point but that given love to hear further what you gent say . ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: January-12-2019 at 10:12pm
Where are those pictures for posterity? |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: January-13-2019 at 12:35pm
I like Pete's long-term view for horse power upgrade. You may need to re-do the engine cover, though.,,, JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: January-13-2019 at 2:41pm
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Why would you want to cover a pretty engine like that? You are going to have a helmet on so just use ear plugs! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: January-14-2019 at 10:24am
Oh jeez, Yes i neglected that didn't I ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: January-14-2019 at 11:41am
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I like what I read all around, the first round should be pretty stout. The TW heads are an investment but should be least risk in terms of quality and performance, they are gonna run good with whatever cam profile you throw at them in either a stock 351 or stroked 302 setup. Pcm pyramids may run into the valve covers with those heads due to the higher valve cover mounting surface- one set of mine did and one didn't – a little angle added to the manifold mounting surfaces or an extra gasket cures that with minimal pain. Upside to the raised valve cover is that you should be able to fit the rockers under the stock height covers no problem, although the scorpions can be a little fat and may need a little relief on a corner or two. I would think you could run a 75-95 hp bump on the 351w conservatively propping for 5100-5300. I would just degree in the cam and run it straight up to start, perhaps adjust after if you feel you are either slower out of the hole than you think you should be or if you are running out of breath a bit too soon on the top. Round two throw a single plane, roller cam, and some balancing at a 10.0 cr 331 and I would suspect you would drop just a bit of pitch on the prop and have full power band improvement of at least another 25+ hp. Depending on the weight drop and the prop design you might not even want to drop the pitch any – but I would still cam it for 5500-5600 and prop it for 6k for all round snap and sound. Not that you couldn't shoot higher if you were feeling randy. A used aluminum 1:1 pcm transmission would be a complete score on the weight reduction front if one happens to roll by - no experience with the 1:1 but the 1.23:1 has proven to be very reliable. Obviously exhaust manifolds other than pcm would save you a bunch of weight as well – possibly with the loss of a little performance as I do like the pcm manifold design for a stock manifold. The pcms sound better with some intake work if you feel like wearing a respirator for a few hours, Don't know if they are any faster after but they sound faster. Same advice if you find some commanders, which are wider but on a 302 block should be no wider than a set of pcms on a 351 block. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: January-14-2019 at 4:25pm
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Great to hear your advice Joe! yeah, i'm not afraid to spin the smaller engine up there above 5500. The estreet heads seemed to have a warning above 5500 that turned me off from them Yes, manifolds and PCM 1:1 would really be something ! I'll have one eye open for them for quite a spell i think ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: January-28-2019 at 11:00am
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Now you don't need this guys engine... however he doesn't really want to sell it with the transmission anyway - https://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/bpo/d/jupiter-marine-engine-58-pcm/6804324314.html ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: January-29-2019 at 9:56am
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nice find Joe ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: February-14-2019 at 9:56am
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Shortblock is in the basement.. Great friend with a mini-excavator made it a precision operation   Before i pull the trigger, what main and rod bearings would you men suggest? at first glance, i see Sealed Power CP-Series Rod Bearings 83380CPA and Direct Replacement Series Main Bearings 5078M This is odd, the #3 piston's extra dish is machined differently..  ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: February-14-2019 at 9:58am
| Stick with Clevite 77 bearings with the full oiling groove in the mains. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: February-14-2019 at 10:19am
We know you know how to post pictures so "where are those pictures for posterity" so the world can see what your original problem was? |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: February-14-2019 at 10:28am
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Oh jeeze yes! Wish i could get better focus   ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-14-2019 at 11:05am
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Tom, With the valve stem issue and now the different piston, it looks like someone put that engine back together with Ken's left over parts!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: February-14-2019 at 11:28am
Not quite Pete Those would go into my collection of "parts that have some life left in 'em" for future use
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Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: February-15-2019 at 8:23am
And here I was hoping to see a picture of the "short" exhaust valve next to a normal one on the workbench or some explanation of what the problem was found to be. |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: February-15-2019 at 10:11am
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Seems i'm going to have to cut them to get them out else tamper with the evidence on the contact area. The cam lobe was still good, and lifter still rotating. Lifter internals are much like its neighbor Where the original excess valve clearance came from would be nice to find from there, seems it was just hammered into submission at least 23 of its 37 seasons or more. Prevalence of undisturbed original paint on all head and pan bolts suggest it was not torn down prior to my ownership. It had a hard life before my stewardship, like most our fellowship's boats ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: February-16-2019 at 11:51am
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After more pondering and estimating, Unless I stumble upon a fresh built 331 shortblock cheap, I suspect phase two becomes a bit steep to get to the 440# engine, without going to stock 3" stroke 302 which could be a little weak against a strong slalom tug . Expenses are shortblock and stroker kit, roller cam, lifters, pushrods, and proper distributer. However, if one used a 351W oil pump on a 302 block, couldn’t one then keep the 351 distributor and its larger diameter hex drive?? Now I’ve been long pondering a third lightweight engine option. I’m not going to do on this to this boat, but hey, if someone wanted to do similar, why keep it to myself? The scenario involved switching brands to the LSx platform, sometimes thats enough to dismiss it for some. Now, a used, all-aluminum (except rotating mass and sleeves), 440# engine 290+hp seems could be had somewhat cheaply. (Plus add exhaust manifold weight - common to all options ) and be equivalent to a dieted, well Aluminized, 302 based sbf. At almost half the cost of a built up propr fresh bore 331 sbf. Plus, upgrades are just a cam and springs away. Here is the scenario. 1) The LSx platform takes the chevy bellhousing pattern, minus one bolt not used. B/W bellhousings with top mount starter can be sourced used 2) A $40 0.400” flywheel spacer returns the flywheel to its expected location 3) Align, machine and tap the flywheel to accept the damper 4) One would need a proper marine chevy starter 5) Transmission mounts unaffected. 6) An aluminum carbureted intake and standalone spark controller can be had for $700 7) A 2003-2005 LM4 is an overlooked LSx style engine from a Trailblazer EXT or Envoy X, I’ve seen three on craigslist this week, entire vehicles for $600. 8) The LM 4 is an aluminum block engine 5.3L with 3.62” stroke 9) The LM4 has a peculiar cast pan, with a tunnel through it for a front axleshaft. However contrary to the LM7, it has a front sump, and likely advantageous for the engine tilt, though mid-sump would be best I suspect. 10) Fresh main and rod bearings, just because. 11) Engine mounts: if chevy small-block to LS, adapter plates are available cheep 12) Engine mounts: if Ford Windsor to LS, consider the LS engine has engine mount holes very centered on the block much like the sbf, and not forward on the block like the typical chevy small block. This means the boat’s ford mounts cradle system is unaffected, and with some modest fabrication, one crates front mounts 13) Thermostat system – I think a solution is out there - havn't looked 14) Since intake valve lift and duration is only 191 degrees and 0.460”, A better but still truck-oriented camshaft reportedly wakes these engines up well beyond stock 290hp it appears, all else is there, heads, 9.5:1 compression. It does have smaller intake valves than the L33, but not prohibitively so. 15) The LM4 does not have VVT like some later models of LS, reducing complications. 16) Lift is limited to 0.500 but LS6 springs then permit .550 lift. 17) Lastly, Exhaust manifolds.. Some options are starting to come down, the lowest price point of cast aluminum pyramid manifolds ive seen is from Marine Engine depot #612663 @ $1050. Hardin has some #620-32941 at $1300, and word on the street is that Crusader has a cast aluminum set for 900, but have yet to confirm parts list numbers 18) Also, ive seen multiple sources suggest the LSx exhaust pattern is a carbon copy of the Ford Cleveland, that could open some options. In the pursuit of a very lightweight engine for cheap, this could very well be a cool project for the hobbyist ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-16-2019 at 6:51pm
| I was going to say that all the marine specific pieces for the LS may be cost prohibitive... but if you can clear that hurdle, that’s a great option. I didn’t realize there was an all aluminum 5.3, cool. |
Posted By: rosconole
Date Posted: February-16-2019 at 11:49pm
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Have you considered 393 kit or 408 would need some clearance ....I know Eagle and Scat kits were reasonable when i looked at it ------------- 1989 ski nautique ,1991 barefoot nautique, 1993 Mustang Cobra 1998 5.0 Magazine shootout invitee |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-17-2019 at 12:19am
| How much weight do those save over a 351w Ross? |
Posted By: rosconole
Date Posted: February-17-2019 at 12:37am
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similar but your making more power. . aluminum isnt the greatest option if your in a raw water situation to combat corrosion. sure you save some weight but xyz boat also designed around that weight now you change the handling some.. ------------- 1989 ski nautique ,1991 barefoot nautique, 1993 Mustang Cobra 1998 5.0 Magazine shootout invitee |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: February-17-2019 at 8:50am
This would be a case of putting a round peg into a round hole. Only problem would be the peg is too big for the hole in more ways than one. The shaft below the gear on a 351w distributor is too big in diameter too fit through the hole inside the block where the shaft engages the oil pump shaft on the 302 and the distributor housing in the area of the O ring where it seats on the block is too big for that hole too. The 351w distributor housing fits in a hole about 1 9/16 inches and the 302 is about 1. 1/2 inches. As far as the Chevy engine, that sounds like something I would try and I'd probably end up spending about 5 times what I planned on by the time I was done
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Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: February-17-2019 at 3:25pm
Any chance that the pressed in rocker stud has pulled out a bit? I think you wouldn't actually be disappointed in the pull of a stock 302 bottom end with those heads, an intake, and a roller cam. I am a best a hack of a slalom skier so that might be where my experience falls apart but I ran my 83 Ski Nautique for a couple years with a 302/gt40ps/edelbrock performer/mild edelbrock flat tappet cam and it was a solid 47.3 mph boat . I also was running a lot of time weighted for wakeboarding at the time and that relatively mild 302 was better than a stock 351w in every way. Worst case pitching down the the prop a half inch would stiffen up the pull at the expense of a few more rpm. A junk yard bottom end (preferably with roller lifters ), some gaskets, and a craigslist intake is about all it would take to find out. If the experiment failed you could sell off the 302 shortblock and intake likely for what you paid. The ls engines are all pretty spectacular - might be a stainless header available that could be flipped upside down - add a bit of a downturn and weld a water box around them - take a little talent but maybe not so much money. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: rosconole
Date Posted: February-17-2019 at 4:05pm
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Some things I think that have been failed to be mentioned is 302 is 8.2 deck height , 351 is 9.2 or 9.5 . Changing motor mounts, dizzy,...among other things I would agree if you can get a roller block and put get a cam would be the most bang for the buck. ------------- 1989 ski nautique ,1991 barefoot nautique, 1993 Mustang Cobra 1998 5.0 Magazine shootout invitee |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: February-17-2019 at 4:09pm
No motor mount changes with the 302 vs 351 - distributor for sure as noted above - ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: rosconole
Date Posted: February-17-2019 at 4:34pm
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Basically no one wants to buy a boat with a smaller motor than what it came with later on. Unless being buried in it is an option. 390 roller block would be nice combo and easily sourced. You can get probably 1000 just in parts changes, Drilling for head bolts. Parts that may be transferred from 302 engines: Timing Cover Water Pump Cylinder Heads (may require head bolt holes to be machined) Valve Covers Pulleys Camshaft (may need to change firing order) Timing Set Lifters Rocker Arms Parts that are different than 302 engines: Oil Pan Oil Pump and Shaft Intake Manifold Distributor Manifolds Pushrods Head Bolts or Studs ------------- 1989 ski nautique ,1991 barefoot nautique, 1993 Mustang Cobra 1998 5.0 Magazine shootout invitee |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: February-18-2019 at 5:05pm
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The Two major Engine Bearing manufacturers in the USA are Clevite or Federal-Mogul/Sealed Power. Either one should serve your purpose. Make sure your oil clearances are correct. Rods and Mains in a boat I would hope to stay between .002 and .0025. Larger clearance will cost you some oil pressure at idle. ------------- |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: February-19-2019 at 10:25am
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Very good inputs men, thank you Joe great to hear again of your first hand experience with a warmed 302 in a {80's) full size boat! So a reclaim 302 bottom end someday may very well suite me. I had dismissed that till now. I see, so with competent heads, a smartly chosen roller cam could bridge much the gap in cubits. And like you said, its a low-risk experiment And i'm not afraid to spin an engine . I recognize HP requires rpm. I could freshen one off season while running this 351 lower for a spell longer So would just need a mid-sump pan and pickup, distributor, and 52oz imbalance flywheel, and a used, popular intake. And fresh head bolts. pushrods Good idea Joe, I'll would check a rocker stud, but, being an '82 or '81 casting, its the pedestal type head. Yeah wish i had that proficiency with a Tig. Someone could make come nice exhaust pieces. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: February-19-2019 at 10:59am
Can you get a RR roller cam for a 302 ??? I pulled a pressed in stud up on my original heads. They are not reliable. Screw in studs or at least pinning the press in type is the answer. Screw in require milling the bosses down and then tapping for the studs. Milling machine is best way. If you have to pay for all that work (not being able to do it yourself) then aftermarket aluminum heads may be a route to go. Performance and light weight ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: February-19-2019 at 11:03am
He doesn't really care since he has a Ski Supreme with a normal rotation engine.
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Posted By: rosconole
Date Posted: February-19-2019 at 11:12am
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Could be 28 oz or 50 oz balance depending on year. Here is cost effective combo for poor mans stroker kit guys use; Scat 3.850 crank , stock lenght 351w rods, stock type 302 pistons, early 351w heads. ------------- 1989 ski nautique ,1991 barefoot nautique, 1993 Mustang Cobra 1998 5.0 Magazine shootout invitee |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: February-19-2019 at 11:22am
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Oh yes Duane, i'm pulling the trigger on TF 170 heads Thats quite cool Ross! But I think a 393 i'll definitely shoot my eye out ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: February-19-2019 at 11:28am
I opted for FLO TEK aluminum heads. Speedway Motors had them for $769 delivered. Cast in China (like most heads) but machined in Indiana. May be worth looking at. I like mine.Small chambers and small runners, that is what boats like. ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: February-19-2019 at 1:33pm
My 302 was/is all automotive junk yard found stuff so there is workable pickup/sumps out there - if it comes to go time Ill look for the notes/parts. I assume there is a parts store flywheel available that would work as well from a manual transmission 5.0 era mustang or something. But maybe not if diameter or tooth count changed from the 1964.5 mustang flywheel design that early 302 and all 351w marine motors used. I know there were added holes on later ones for bigger clutches but I don't know if the diameter or tooth count had to change as well. Either way one is available aftermarket but would be cheaper if its an autoparts store pick up. I ended up having my 28oz flywheel drilled on at the local engine balancer to make it match a later 50oz crank - but I did that cause I was in a hurry- it would deprive you of a perfectly good 351w flywheel. Pushrods with the TW heads will absolutely not match anything stock in either of the deck heights so a few bucks there for sure. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: February-20-2019 at 12:36am
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Here's some info for ya' A Spectra FP-01B oil pan will most likely work for a 302 in your Supreme. It's cheap, has the oil drain on the side and has a dipstick provision. It should be easy to come up with the right oil pump pickup too. Most likely there is no clearance for a high volume oil pump but that's not a bad thing. A Dorman 264-012 is another pan too. It's basically the same pan. The pictures below will show you some Ford and PCM part numbers for a damper and flywheel for a normal rotation 302 from 1981 or later with 50 ounce imbalance and 157 teeth on the ring gear. You'll see a couple of hand drawn arrows. They came from the PCM parts manual printed in 1990. If you were using an earlier engine, you can find some numbers on those pages too, but your 351 damper and flywheel would work since the early 302's and 351w were the same 28.2 ounce imbalance.   And if you're gonna do a stroker or just want some reading one of the books in the link has lots of good info https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+build+big+inch+ford+small+blocks&oq=how+to+build+big+inch+small+block+fords&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0.16288j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8" rel="nofollow - link If the numbers are hard to read the damper number is E1JE-2-6316-AA but you see it sometimes as E1JE-6316-AA2 and the flywheel number is E1ZR-6380-A2A |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: February-20-2019 at 10:39am
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Good stuff Thats great sorting out the pan number, thank you. I knew about what shape would work, but from pictures it was difficult to confirm what is the front and what is the back. Appears Eighties Econoline applications Duane I studied the Flo-Teks for good long while, please tell my how they have been, or point me to text if you've already written it up. It appears the TF heads switch from 10 degree locks and retainers to 7 degree when building a head for a roller cam, along with heavier springs. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: March-13-2019 at 4:28pm
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Gaining.. Mains rolled in, RMS, Rod Bearings in..  Cam thrust plate modified for clearance., accept v-head bolts  Cam in, Thrust bearing set at .005  Cam plate on, Threadlocked  Finding TDC,  block will get painted shortly, then mock 1 head, and dial cam ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: March-18-2019 at 10:07am
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Day early, dollar short...ugh Great deal for someone doing similar... https://westernmass.craigslist.org/pts/d/springfield-trick-flow-tw-170-heads/6828973152.html ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: March-20-2019 at 10:24am
Mock up , just cuz ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: March-20-2019 at 10:26am
Checking PVT , and dialing in camshaft ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: March-20-2019 at 11:42am
Fun stuff!!! Kinda miss building engines. Hard to get out of your blood. I still have a Cleveland motor that I need to figure out what to do with. ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: March-20-2019 at 12:10pm
With your skills you should have that thing marinized in no time  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: March-21-2019 at 12:11pm
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Thanks men I seem to be at an impasse Two nights trying to get the numbers right, but it doesn't add up... I could only get the valve open @ 0.050 near to correct when indexed 8 degrees retarded. However then valve-close was showing 14-16 degrees late Duration shows 14-16 degrees longer than the card indicates. Also lift at valve measures an extra 50 thou, Alone not a big problem as there is plenty of PVT still. I'lll confirm LSA next just for s&g's before i take it out, but i suspect LSA will be different also Appears this never-used cam is more wild than what the package indicates, maybe it got mixed up as it changed hands somewhere Unless i'm doing something dreadfully wrong, ill be shopping for a cam that works. Luckily selection is good being std rotation Inputs welcome for consideration! ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: March-21-2019 at 1:50pm
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So I might be missing something but it looks as is you are measuring valve movement but - .050 spec should be tappet movement, so perhaps its a rocker ratio induced error? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: March-21-2019 at 1:59pm
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If in doubt about cams I always ask Isky... http://www.iskycams.com/cam-degreeing.html ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: March-21-2019 at 4:06pm
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Youknow Joe that could very well be it! Recently watched too much pushrod measuring /rocker geometry tutorials, and likely mixed up the techniques much obliged! ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: March-21-2019 at 5:40pm
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You need to watch the video below IF you attempt to degree off of the retainer like you are set up to do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cNoVRLb73c" rel="nofollow - video Joe is correct, you are confusing two different methods to degree. Pay special attention to the 4:40 time on the video. Think that is what is throwing you off. We always degree'd off of the lifter cause we never had the heads on our spare motors. ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: March-26-2019 at 10:08am
Last night verified that 0 degrees offset results in all cam events being within 1 degree of the card. when i do it right....  Lift at cam measures right on as well. I think the scorpion rockers sneak a little more than 1.6 ratio, which is fine, there is plenty of PVT. Now I'm reconsidering not using the Rhodes lifers that came with the cam. My calculus... 214/224 is not too crazy duration it seems , and i don't want a non-linearity to occur in the power right in the middle of slalom speed ranges. Appears these come alive 3000-3500, and thats the wrong place for a big ramp in dHP/dRPM, as ramps go both ways, and the major input should be throttle opening, not rpm Additionally I don;t want to hear them clicking after all this effort ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: March-26-2019 at 5:28pm
Glad you are moving back in the right direction... Rhoads lifters - the shifting prop of lifters even --- someone probably wants to buy them from you on the ebay for what it will cost you to replace them. I don't like them in a boat for all your reasons plus hot oil being pretty watery after sustained 4400 barefoot pulling operations. I don't think you will have vacuum problems without them at idle so no need to risk the clackity clack... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: April-09-2019 at 10:11am
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Updates... re re re confirmed PVT both methods, clay and dial indicator with setup valvespring. got .095" intake and exhaust was so over .200 i didn;t commit to a solid number, was plenty and didn't even dimple the clay  Heads are now bolted down and torqued Measured and got push rods sized to where rocker fulcrums are 90 degrees to the stud at 50% lift. Measured that with a solid lifter Installed them, and new std hyd lifters, both with assembly lube and set lifter preloads and locked them all down, I'll need to modify the baffles in the valve covers, as they hit the lock down bolts, rather not buy new ones. I then clocked the lifters on apiece of paper, and gave the engine 20 revolutions, then checked th position of the lifters to make certain they all rotated some  I've been playing further with the aesthetics of the engine as it goes along. Prior pictures with the rustoleum hammered black on the block and covers was looking quite acceptable. Noticed that the camera errently picked up browns in the light that got me thinking to wth maybe better embrace the browns, and did some testing that said, keep in mind the boat is the typical all- chocolate brown hull with tan deck supreme most are familiar with .. Last week, with the heads still off, retaped the block, (easy, used the old front cover as a mask on the front of the engine) and hit the block and covers with the hammered brown, There would be a whole lot of silvers going on, so wanted to better highlight the heads and exhaust, so hit the Intake and front cover with hammered copper. It pained me somewhat to paint a new intake, but they don't look great for long left bare anyway. I fully understand, its not for everyone. And may only work with a brown-themed boat. But as far as painted engines go, , i'm satisfied with the results I placed the covers and intake on and a couple bolts on the exhaust to mock-up...     ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: April-09-2019 at 11:43am
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Sometimes you just have to embrace the brown. Everything is looking pretty sweet from here. I have had to debaffle a few of those valve covers as well didn't notice an oil ingestion issue from it but if you could leave a little baffle for a PCV valve would be nice. I don't think itll be an issue with raised height valve cover rails on those heads but I ruined a cam/set of lifters when I had a set of scorpions rub against the inside of the valve cover where it is dented in for the mounting screw access. It didn’t rub the first time in installed them but on a subsequent install I had them apparently pushed out a little more to the exhaust side. Just something to look for – I’ll never leave an intake unpainted again no matter how pretty they are out of the box, it's a trap. Speaking of intakes, it will be interesting to see how well that engine winds out with the performer, I suspect pretty well matched to the heads/cam for everything other than pure top speed which is probably a reasonable thing for a ski boat. What is the plan for carb? Any spacer? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: April-09-2019 at 2:23pm
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thanks Joe! i'll heed that, and look out for that style of cover interference too. Glad you said so I won't have near full travel on the rockers till i hit it with the preluber Carb will be my correct list Holley 600, about 12-14 years old, and trouble-free I suspect it could leave something on the table for cfm, but alls well for now. I'm aiming the 34-36mph throttle compensation should improve , as at 36 was getting a little flat to inputs and likely close to transitioning to partial secondaries under load, which don't respond quick enough to throttle inputs like that. I concur, could do well on everything but flat out big numbers. The hull is low-lift much like a stars and stripe MC, so this wont be an impressive speed monkey, and that 4-blade oj is going to have rapidly increasing parasitics above 4500 rpm. these three things together I suspect will keep top mph away. Like you said, not bad because the usage and hull, don't want to spend too much time fast anyway in that hull. I have a 3-blade later issue federal for playing with too, the boat skis well with that too. The carb is of the later vintage to have its own PVC port. The old spacer will produce vacuum leaks on the newer edelbrock manifolds as many encountered, Vic want people to use their carburetors i suspect I bought a black plastic spacer hoping it was entire solid, but it has voids on the underside also. Haven't figured that out completely yet. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-09-2019 at 2:40pm
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https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-2732/ I like the brown/copper- unique! |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: April-09-2019 at 4:02pm
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It is looking great. Carter Carburetors had a Carb Selection chart printed for years. It states a 348-360 Cubic Inch engine will need 610 CFM at 6,000 RPM. Same engine needs 560 CFM at 5500 RPM. Your 600 should give you great performance unless you wish to twist it over 6,000. The 351W with large main journals heats up your oil quickly when run over 5,000 for any extended period. Large mains support the torque very well and help when running loaded all the time like a boat engine is always exposed to. For High RPM running with these engines racers would install smaller diameter main journals to keep oil temps in check. These same large mains have made the 351W a favorite for boat manufacturers because they last a long time while working hard. ------------- |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: April-10-2019 at 9:54am
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Thanks for the solutions men! thats good news on the cfm Mark I don't want this to ever see over 5500 as stock bottom end is compromised beyond that, so appears that leaves some margin for cfm then a 302's numbers are 6000 for the same piston speeds and stress So 5200-5300 would be just fine! ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: April-26-2019 at 9:51am
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Question - What do you recommend about blocking or leaving the heat crossover? I'l leaning block, given the typical temps of operation. but i need to decide shortly. Its too late for me to tap and plug the crossover port on the heads, i'll get chips down near the valve seat. but its a 1/4 to 5/16 hole or so on each head. unlike the stock heads wide and irregular shape My intake gaskets are fel pro 1250 , they match the head's port size well, but not blocked on the heat crossover. Appears i have some work to do on the intake.. I can trim the tab on the intake gasket so it lines up decent to the 1.4x2.0" ports on the heads, but i'll need to remove about 0.20 in width and 0.30 on height on the intake ports for better matching. The performer runners are comparatively narrow to the head' port's. Moreso on the outer runners are necked down quite narrow.   ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: April-26-2019 at 11:16am
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I haven't gone to any efforts to block the exhaust crossover when it was there but I also can't say I have missed in when I was using heads or intakes that don't have it. If you are deleting the carb spacer maybe there is some worry over some extra heat in the carb by not blocking it off, but I have never found vapor lock or the like to be real issues in my boating life and sometimes run in pretty darn cold water. I would tend to run it as it is as the heads seem to have already taken a middle road in terms of port size. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-26-2019 at 12:53pm
Your intake gasket set did not come with the crossover blank off's or reducers? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: April-26-2019 at 1:07pm
I wouldnt be surprised if they didn't - I dont know if it varies based on the part number of gasket chosen or its a new trend but the last couple edelbrock intake gasket sets I ordered didn't have any. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-26-2019 at 1:47pm
The set I bought a couple of years ago had them,maybe they were overlooked? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: April-27-2019 at 3:15pm
Egad, yes, they are in the package.  Just hogged out the intake. Think i just lowered the engine weight by another pound If trick flow had a low rise dual plane intake available, that would have saved a lot of work! ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: April-27-2019 at 3:55pm
If you didn't do this   Then you still got off easy... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: April-27-2019 at 6:06pm
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The crossover in the intake helps the engine warm up faster. If you run in Arizona Temps all the time, block it off. If you run in a mix of weather you may wish to leave it open. The factory left them open. When port matching an intake try and leave the intake port a little smaller than the intake on the head port so you don't create any disturbance as the air enters the head. Big is good, too big is bad. ------------- |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: April-27-2019 at 8:18pm
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Yikes Joe, we're you able to save it? Yeah, I was able to keep avoid that thankfully, but I had such images in my head I'm a fair weather boater but I like a quick warmup for morning time trying to beat the Wally's and surfers. But will likely delete the spacer due to height constraints.. Just don't want paint-scorching intake heat again because even the best carb complains after a shut down ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: April-28-2019 at 12:08am
After a few days of wallowing in defeat I bought a tank of argon, used a bit of copper tubing as a backer and mig welded it up - took me a half dozen tries and quite a bit of cleanup but it survived. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: April-29-2019 at 10:18am
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Pictures. it may get bolted down tonight   ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: May-06-2019 at 4:13pm
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Well lots of little details. Fittings, hardware, what to reuse,what new. Antisieze , rtv, threadlock , teflon tape or quicksilver anticorrosion grease. Johnson pump is 1.25" where the PCM system is all 1", still has to be solved. New timing set bumps balancer outward, now crank pully is off. Shimming water pump pulley seems best fix Here is the PCMINDMARCOMMANDER  Here is an image of the boat's wake last season, for reference. Loaded lightly here, maybe 285 of driver and observer. Image is at 15 off and 30mph. decent for its '82 vintage, i think.  ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: June-05-2019 at 10:27am
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We were in a holding pattern the last month waiting for the mini excavator to be available, but it was getting held up.. Quick story the engine is in the boat without incident, but not without fighting us much the day Sunday My good friend had access to equipment but this unit wasn’t as robust as the mini excavator we used in February when taking the shortblock out and putting it in the basement This JD loader/hoe not only was shy the hydraulic power to raise its boom when loaded with the engine, , it would also creep down when raised with the arm, so even using a higher starting elevation by putting the unit higher on my wall above the boat, we would only get one, somewhat uncontrolled decent chance to align. Not an option Then we decided to use the bucket to install the engine. This had the power, but not best three-axis maneuverability. It was also yet undetermined if it would have enough reach over the boat and still hit centerline. We decided to move the cast engine mounts left on the boat to the engine and, and as it got closer, yank the lags out of the tranny mounts, and place the transmission with its mounts on the block before lowering it all in as a unit. This worked out without incident but we were four hours into it at that point, having creating many plans to work around the machine limitations.  However, no people or boats were injured in the making of this saga, so that is a victory itself With remaining day closing, most critical umbilical’s , gazintas and gazzoutas were connected, modified and improvised in effort to hear some life and confirm it doesn’t frag, oil stays where it should, etc… Engine is not aligned, nor is raw water pump active, running it straight from hose  First checked cranking - that sounded entirely normal. Next we applied water and checked for any water where it shouldn’t be for a good while With water still running, turned it by hand 2 revolutions without it hydrolocking Then It puffed quickly with helper 2-stroke gas, FO appears correct (old LH 302 order) and base timing was surprisingly correct enough for first start by mark1 eyeball upon assembly. One shut down occurred to snug the fuel bowls, and secure this and that. Some shuddering and roughness at first. We soon got it 2000+rpm for 20 minutes while checking for any oils in the bilge, no water in the oil, no oil in the water. It was a mad dash with nary a time for a picture, nor any funny videos like one would suppose. After 20 minutes running high rpm , with a few shut downs to check things , no irregular noises, clunks nor clicks except from an angry vbelt alignment. Some celebratory beers and raw cleanup of the disaster of tools and such about. It was all supposed to be an operating room precision operation with tools laid out like surgical instruments but looked more like typical boat yard daily work . Kept it real. During the 20 minutes, on some throttle-ups, blue smoke was observed puffing one exhaust runner, as well as the rear of the boat, one exhaust side. Manifolds will be retorqued, and may get red silicon rtv if torqueing doesn’t cure. We pulled the pvc, and the oil spray was quite dramatic off the rockers and out the hole. No doubt the pvc is sucking copious oil in the absence of the baffles. It cleared enough to confirm it is causal to the PVC. The oil is water-free. Bilge is oil free. Camshaft survived. That was a big relief. I did a trick I made up on the pushrods upon assembly that I think increases chances of survival of a new flat cam, ill share sometime Now proper height valve covers are on order, with baffles I need. Will have them tomorrow night. Found some black stamped steel ones, cheapest tall covers I could find, proform. Looks like the covers will go back to black color. Huh, and blank wasn’t a choice, needed to pick from Mustang, no. Ford Racing, no, I only have about 20 bucks of Ford racing parts on it. Last choice was, cobra.. meh, ok. So… it will be a cobra..  Maybe not all that different theme than Corvette Indmars did. Next, water pump, aligning, more tuning, throttle bracket has to be modified to reach. I get some buzzing from the Primary needle after shutdown, and post shut-down drips. Primary bowl will have to come off When warmed up, its throttle response and quick revving with very modest throttle sounded quite… exhilarating. Last night did some more tuning, rough alignment, retorqued exhaust manifolds Videos from last night available on this channel as well as other related stuff https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGNXkgBcHTaGHlViysRo2JA" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGNXkgBcHTaGHlViysRo2JA ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-05-2019 at 12:25pm
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Sounds like success so far- nice! Hoping to launch this weekend? |
Posted By: tryathlete
Date Posted: June-05-2019 at 1:25pm
| Our blessed mother of acceleration awaits her newborn. That’s really nice throttle response. Hope you can do a few lake run ups for us soon on YouTube |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: June-05-2019 at 2:20pm
Thanks! I was worried lat night, had a drip from the 'riser'/manifold connection. Turns out it was just exhaust condensing inside the cold manifolds and a loose clamping bolt letting it get by. But really was concerning for a while till determined the manifolds were not compromised. One should should think so at this rate, huh? , but my gf's son is graduating this weekend, confounding boat logistics. and she's doing a half IM next Saturday. Its all great stuff, just a massive collision of awesomeness. maybe midweek next week
Yeah! AM Mass at Our Lady of the Holy Handle will have to wait just a bit longer.. Should be good ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: June-05-2019 at 4:13pm
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Glad you have it running again. It is early June so you still have a large part of the season to enjoy. You mentioned some blue smoke. I don't remember if you installed new piston rings on this job. Rings will need to be loaded to seat in the cylinder. Once the boat is on the water and you accelerate they should seat in quickly. Was there a lot of blow by in the PVC? That would be a sure sign the rings are not seated. Modern Rings will seat in the first or second dyno pull normally. It happens quickly. A boat accerating on the water does a great job of loading the engine for ring break in. ------------- |