buffing gelcoat
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: Common Questions
Forum Discription: Visit here first for common questions regarding your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4721
Printed Date: November-21-2024 at 3:03pm
Topic: buffing gelcoat
Posted By: weitekampt
Subject: buffing gelcoat
Date Posted: September-08-2006 at 8:50am
|
Can a person buff the boat too much. I have a craftsman car buffer from sears. It is a low speed orbital jobber. Does a fantastic job. I use a polish/sealer on the boat and it looks great. I am concerned that I can buff too much. I know I have waxed my truck too much and I have taken the pigment out of the paint. BAD.
Any suggestions? ------------- 1993 SkiNautique ProTec 2009 Boatmate trailer. 1240 hours on meter. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1559&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - 1993 Ski Nautique |
Replies:
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: September-08-2006 at 9:41am
|
You'd have to do a LOT of buffing with some serious compound to go through the gelcoat. Gelcoat is much harder than paint, and CC puts it on pretty thick (1/16" maybe?). I wetsanded my top deck, starting with 320 grit and ending with 1000. I then hit it with several grades of compounds and polishes on a rotary buffer.
I dont think you have anything to worry about. Polish away! ------------- |
Posted By: David F
Date Posted: September-08-2006 at 10:48am
|
The only real damage you can do to gelcoat is burning it with a high speed polisher but then only if you work at it. Nothing to worry about with an orbital buffer. ------------- |
Posted By: stang72
Date Posted: September-10-2006 at 1:10am
|
Right you are DavidF...you can put burn marks in...but you have to be using a real heavy cut compound and leave it in one area too long or too dry!
Buff the hell out of it! I use a high speed buffer with 3M perfect it III...great results...follow it up with micro finish and wax. High speed rotory will do much more than the orbital(if you want that gla$$ look)...orbital buffers are nice for waxing! Todd...it just so happens, that I emailed you on this subject about a hour ago (before seeing the post)....using a good compound and finish with a high speed buffer will make it easier to clean your hull...taking down the pores left by oxidization! That Minn. river Green Sh*t will go away with little effort! ------------- stang Face plants are not that funny when it's you face! http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/images/3720/photo1.jpg" rel="nofollow - The Super Air |
Posted By: weitekampt
Date Posted: September-12-2006 at 11:59pm
|
Thanks guys! I am sorry for being late on replying, but I am in Iowa on business. Just figured out the hotel wireless. I will consider looking into a high speed buffer this fall (or maybe before the mini-reunion at Shelbyville). Will it tear up the decals? I am only concerned about the "ski nautique" on the side. I don't really like the flag on the side. Already took the smaller decals off. I am really discouraged about the color difference after removing the small decals on the side. If you could give me some sunshine on the decals and grit compound I would appreciate it!
Later! ------------- 1993 SkiNautique ProTec 2009 Boatmate trailer. 1240 hours on meter. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1559&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - 1993 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: stang72
Date Posted: September-13-2006 at 10:06am
|
Todd...yes be carefull around decals and graphics...you can go over them with the finishing wax and buff...but at the slowest speed and keeping the buffer moving! Or to be safe...by hand..or use your rotory! The rotory work nicely for finishing wax and graphics!
I'll give ya all the product lowdown at the lake! Grit...if wet sanding? Depends on what you want to do...my guess on a 93 you won't need to hit it that hard. I would start with one small section using 800, followed by 1000...high speed buff with compound and see how it looks. You might get the results you want using just a heavy cut coumpound and no wet sanding...I have a 3m coumpound that is equal to 800 grit. ------------- stang Face plants are not that funny when it's you face! http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/images/3720/photo1.jpg" rel="nofollow - The Super Air |
Posted By: 92'NIQUE
Date Posted: September-23-2006 at 6:16am
|
Thought I'd revive this post, since some of us northerners (like me) are pulling their boats for layup and doing some cosmetic work before we tuck them away. I just pulled my weathered decals off the boat (so far everything but the large "SKI NAUTIQUE" letters) using a heatgun (at low temp) and a small putty knife. I'd recommend not using any razors, it tends to dig into the gelcoat to easily. The vinyl decals heated up real quick and they scraped off very easily. I then used a light solvent (mineral spirits) with one of those green scrubby pads and lightly removed the sticky scumm. Clean with soap and water, then used a Turtle Wax rubbing compound by hand to bring back the original color. Took me about 2 hours per side. Fading wasnt too bad, no need for any type of mechanical buffer. Now that the compounding is complete, I could use some tips (sounds like Stang72 might have some) on a few good products for waxing and polishing. Thanks. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=548&sort=&pagenum=6&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - 92'NIQUE |
Posted By: 88skisupreme
Date Posted: September-25-2006 at 1:19pm
| something with teflon like 3M or Starbrite polish should be a good finisher and last a little longer than old fashioned wax. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: September-25-2006 at 1:48pm
|
You'll want to polish, then wax. Polishing is still smoothing the surface by removing (very small amounts of) material. Wax goes on last and builds a protective layer over the gel coat.
I buffed my top deck this spring/summer with great results. I wetsanded and compounded to bring back the white color, then used 3M Finesse-It II polish on a rotary buffer (twice). This brought out a great shine. I then used Collinite liquid fibergla$$ wax (#925), which I applied by hand. I didnt get enough hrs on the boat this year to really comment on the Collinite's longitivity, but its supposed to be pretty good stuff. 
------------- |
Posted By: 92'NIQUE
Date Posted: September-26-2006 at 10:10am
|
Good info TRBenj. I went with a more aggressive rubbing compound on the other side of the boat. The Turtle Wax compound was just too light. I suppose I want to apply the new decals that I bought after I polish, but before I wax (?). Seems like it would make more sense to apply the decals to a non-waxed surface. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=548&sort=&pagenum=6&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - 92'NIQUE |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: September-26-2006 at 10:31am
|
Yes, decals should be applied after polishing, but before wax. ------------- |
Posted By: 65 'cuda
Date Posted: September-26-2006 at 8:54pm
|
For oxidized gel, try 3M "Imperial Compound and Finishing Material" it starts out as a fast cut compound (able to remove 800 grit scratches) them breaks down to polish. Follow up with 3M "Perfect It III" machine glaze.
You'll need a high speed rotary buffer for this. I used a $30.00 Harbor freight model , it worked well. ------------- Gary http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=941" rel="nofollow - 1965 Barracuda SS |
Posted By: stang72
Date Posted: September-26-2006 at 9:59pm
|
I'm in agreement with Gary...add one more step,3M micro finish after the perfect it III and then wax!
A high speed rotory will really get the shine you want! ------------- stang Face plants are not that funny when it's you face! http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/images/3720/photo1.jpg" rel="nofollow - The Super Air |
Posted By: LakeBoy
Date Posted: September-29-2006 at 11:54pm
|
Any comments on PoliGlow?
I dug up some old threads, and some people seemed stoked about it. My 95 is very dull right where TRBenj has the sweet shine. I get real nervous abour wet sanding, power buffers, etc. I've seen some bad work over the years and don't want my sweet 95 to be one of them. Suggestions. |
Posted By: stang72
Date Posted: October-01-2006 at 10:08pm
|
I hear it looks good...I am guessing it would look like clear coating. Take a wet rag to the hull...and thats how I think it would look!
I do wonder though...over time will it start to flake? Anyone know? If so then it could be a pain to remove??? Just guessing though. High speed buffing is nothing to fear... gel coat is so much harder than paint! Unless you use heavy compounds...it's hard to make burn marks. On a 95...I would think a light cut would do wonders...and is a VERY easy grade to work with! You buff it well and your good to go quite a while. ------------- stang Face plants are not that funny when it's you face! http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/images/3720/photo1.jpg" rel="nofollow - The Super Air |
Posted By: The Dude
Date Posted: October-01-2006 at 11:12pm
|
When you use a buffer, do you use one pad for application and another for taking off? Of do you put on by hand and then buff off? Or what? ------------- Mullet Free since 93 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=717&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - 95 Sport |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: October-02-2006 at 8:48am
|
The Dude, you'll want to use a specific type of pad for each product, then remove by hand with a terry cloth. After polish and before wax, you'll want to give the boat a quick wash to get rid of any residue- it'll help the wax stick better. ------------- |
Posted By: stang72
Date Posted: October-02-2006 at 9:00pm
|
There are pads for compounding and pads for finishing. 3M has a good selection.I think the foam ones are easiest to work with...very forgiving and you can get contours...can use the edges.
Agree with TRBenj...remove by hand with soft towel. ------------- stang Face plants are not that funny when it's you face! http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/images/3720/photo1.jpg" rel="nofollow - The Super Air |
Posted By: jhlewis10
Date Posted: October-04-2006 at 7:21pm
|
Poliglow worked well for me. Easy to do. I have a maroon Century Sabre. Badly oxidized. Go to http://www.trailersailor.com/ and use the forum search function and search for poliglow. These guys have been using it forever.
Jeff |
Posted By: 88 Nautique
Date Posted: November-06-2006 at 3:35pm
|
Does anybody know where to buy:
3M Imperial Compound 3M Perfect It III Machine Glaze 3M Micro Finish I cannot find it in my small town and I'm having trouble finding it online as well. This sounds like a good combination to use on my new (to me) 88 Nautique. The 3M website is so confusing and when you go to the "buy it now" section of the site, those products are not offered. 3M has a horrible web site if you ask me. Thanks.... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1657" rel="nofollow - My 88 Nautique |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: November-06-2006 at 4:04pm
|
west marine or boaters world ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-06-2006 at 4:19pm
The best place for 3M stuff online is here: http://www.smartshoppersinc.com/index.html - Smart Shoppers Inc. Their prices on the quart sizes are comparable to the pint prices elsewhere. You didnt ask for it, but Ill give you my recommendation anyways. I got great results using these products: 3M super duty rubbing compound 3M imperial microfinishing compound 3M finesse-it II finishing material (polish) I used the perfect-it III glaze after that, but I dont think Id do it again. I was extremely impressed with the super duty compound and the finess-it II stuff- the microfinishing compound was a good step in between. You may not need to go as strong as the super duty, but my deck really shines. I got a great deal on all the pads I used from this place as well- let me know if you need recommendations on those. ------------- |
88 Nautique wrote:Posted By: 88 Nautique
Date Posted: November-06-2006 at 4:39pm
|
Thanks... Any advise you can give me about polishing pads will be appreciated
I checked on the site and they didn't have marine 3M stuff. Just polishes and compounds for auto paint. Is 3M marine stuff different or is it a marketing ploy? Why wouldn't you use the Perfect-It Glaze again? Didn't need it? Also did you wet sand before using the super duty compound? If you did, give me an idea how long you sand/rub out a 2 foot by 2 foot section. Seconds? Minutes? I'll be using a polisher for the task. I don't have major scratches or anything but my finish is really dull. I don't think the boat had ever been polished. Just picked it up a month or so ago. This is my first experience with gellcoat. Thanks Kurt ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1657" rel="nofollow - My 88 Nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-06-2006 at 4:58pm
|
Kurt, gel coat is much easier to deal with than paint. Its harder and much thicker, so you have to be a little more aggressive- but you dont have the risk of burning it or going through the clear coat like you do with automotive paint.
I did wet sand the entire top deck- a total of 5 times. Its exhausting and time consuming. Unless you have scratches you want to remove, have serious oxidation, or want to bring old color back (like I did) then I dont recommend wet sanding. All of the shine can be brought back with a good rotary buffer and the materials I listed above (and good pads). I wouldnt bother with the glaze because you really dont need it. The surface looked incredible after the finesse-it II. The glaze went on best by hand, but I didnt notice any improvement. It was also a pain in the a$$ to work with in 95 degree heat since it kept drying on me. Here is a pic of the deck after I hit it with the finesse it II for the first time (I did it twice): ------------- |
Posted By: 88 Nautique
Date Posted: November-06-2006 at 5:31pm
|
TRBenj
I added a couple questions to my previous post. About 3M marine stuff & how long to wet sand/rubbing compound, buffing pads. Kurt ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1657" rel="nofollow - My 88 Nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-07-2006 at 7:27am
|
Kurt, from what Ive read a lot of marine finishing products are the same as automotive and just re-labeled. I did a LOT of research on what products to use, both on boat forums and detailing sites (autopia). I got great results with these products.
As far as time goes, Id say I spent about 40 hrs on my deck. That includes all the surface above the rub rail (even the interior surfaces). I wetsanded the entire thing 5 times (320, 400, 600, 1000, 1000), then I hit it with the products I mentioned (twice on the super duty compound and finesse-it II polish) and waxed it. Wetsanding was the least fun and went the slowest. It sounds like you dont need to be that aggressive. Only go as aggressive as you need- try the finesse-it first, and if you need more grit work progressively towards the super duty. I would be very surprised if you got that far and decided you want to wet sand. For pads, I bought Lake Country pads from the same website I mentioned (great prices on these as well). I will update this post with the part numbers when I get my list in front of me. ------------- |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-07-2006 at 8:33am
|
Here are the pads that I liked for the products listed:
41-015 LC 4-Ply Wool Cutting Pad 7.5”/1” (SD compound) 41-125 LC 4-Ply Wool Cutting Pad 7.5”/1.5” (microfinishing compound) 41-625 LC Wool/Acrylic Blend Knitted 7.5”/1.5” (finesse-it II) I did the glaze and wax by hand using microfiber applicators and towels. The wax I used was Collinite 925 Marine wax. ------------- |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: November-07-2006 at 10:07am
|
If you going to wet sand it don't waiste your time with the smaller grit stuff because all it does is rough up the surface, Get a DA use 1000 grit then follow with 1500 grit paper and you'll spend a couple of hours wet sanding instead of days. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-07-2006 at 10:23am
I agree... sorta. If you wet sand, only go as aggressive as you need to. Start with 800 or 1000 and only try more aggressive grits as necessary. In any case, you will need to work your way back to 1000- so being less aggressive will save you some work. In my case, I needed to go to 320 to get my color back- even 400 wasnt enough. However, you may not even need to wet sand at all. Theres no need to do finer grits than 1000 though- the super duty will remove scratches left from 1000 grit (it says so right on the bottle). ------------- |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: November-07-2006 at 11:30am
|
you can do it the hard way if you want, doing it by hand is the wrong way IMHO.
All your doing is removing more of the gel-kote and making it thinned and thinner, the color is already there the shine is what is missing. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-07-2006 at 11:48am
I would think that using an electric sander would be a bigger risk of removing excessive gel coat. Then again, if you know what youre doing maybe youre ok. I hadnt done this before so going by hand was a safer bet. Youre wrong about the shine in my case though, Chris. My deck had yellowed a bit over the years- I removed an original warning sticker and found bright white get coat. I worked on that area only until I got the surrounding gel to match- and only the 320 grit was able to get it close. Polish, compound and the finer grits couldnt. Like I said before, wet sanding is not needed to bring back shine. Its only needed if there is a serious amount of oxidation or fading, like in my case. I would think most people dont need to go that route. ------------- |
Posted By: David F
Date Posted: November-07-2006 at 1:10pm
|
It is a known fact that gelcoat oxidizes and fades. Sanding is the only way to remove the oxidized and faded surface of the gelcoat. Even Correct Craft recognizes this fact and thus applies gelcoat thicker than most boat buildiers for precisely this reason (to allow restoring color and shine by sanding or other means of surface removal). ------------- |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: November-07-2006 at 3:30pm
|
A DA isn't an electrical device it is phnuematic, meaning it runs off of compressed air. Dual Action mean it rotates and vibrates at the same time so there isn't any directional markings. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-07-2006 at 3:53pm
|
Chris, I know what a DA is- Ive got a PC 7424 DA polisher on my xmas list. I didnt realize that most DA sanders were pneumatic.
The 7424 will be for the car- I bought a Dewalt 849 (rotary) last spring for the boat, and I love it. ------------- |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: November-07-2006 at 4:13pm
I'm sure glade you know what the f**k a DA is because what you have isn't a DA they're both polishers d*ckhead I've never seen an electric version of one to start with. You don't use a DA for polishing it is for sanding only dumb a$$. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: November-07-2006 at 4:20pm
|
http://www.portercable.com/index.asp?e=547&p=2805 - PC 7424
http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/tool_detail.asp?productID=174 - dewalt 849 ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-07-2006 at 4:30pm
|
Sorry to confuse you Chris.
The PC 7424 is an electric "random" orbital polisher. Its commonly referred to as a "DA" because its backing plate spindle is free spinning. You can read more about it on http://www.autopia-carcare.com/inf-porter-cable-7424-car-polisher.html - Autopia. Its not to be confused with DA sanders. Like I said, the Dewalt 849 is a rotary polisher. I cant wait to meet you in person- you seem like a real friendly dude. ------------- |
Posted By: David F
Date Posted: November-07-2006 at 4:41pm
|
Against my better judgement, I will give my advice on sanding polishing gelcoat (since I have done large areas). IMHO, it is a mistake to use power (or air) tools to sand gelcoat. You run a significant risk of creating flat spots in areas with compound curves. Best to sand by hand. 800 or 1000 grit will take off the surface oxidation a bit if it is not too bad. If you are trying to remove a scratch that you can catch your fingernail on, then forget it and start with 320.
The gelcoat on CC boats is very thick and even with a 4.5" grinder is hard to penetrate (don't try it 
So, sand by hand, polish with a 7" grinder with a wool pad (sans the grinding pad). Due to the hardness of gelcoat, polish with a course compound. The course compound will take care of the haziness left after 1000 grit. ------------- |
Posted By: 88 Nautique
Date Posted: November-07-2006 at 4:56pm
|
Does everyone agree that 3M auto compounds and polishers are pretty much the same as marine stuff? I have a plethora of 3M stuff for my cars. I just hate to go out and spend more $$ for a bottle of the same stuff that has the word "marine" on the label. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1657" rel="nofollow - My 88 Nautique |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: November-07-2006 at 6:11pm
|
with the polishes compounds and such they are pretty much the same but the wax's aren't they are a little different and a marine grade will hold up better over the long haul.
As far as the hand vs. power issue it all goes back to who's hands are operating the power tools as they can get you into trouble pretty quick if you don't know what your doing so bb hand is the safer bet but you won't get as good as a result with power tools in skill hands. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: November-07-2006 at 6:21pm
Far from confused I'm extremely sure you don't know what the f**k your talking about and I've never seen a body man ever confuse a DA for a polisher. http://www.toolbarn.com/product/portercable/PTS1/ - porter cable DA ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: November-07-2006 at 7:56pm
|
the boat doctor prescribes a bottle of Valium and three cheeseburgers for the bear.those long Fla. days are having a negative effect on his normal laid back attitude,79 lighten up . This is not history cla$$.........
A DA works at the courthouse and sends crooks to jail........... boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: November-07-2006 at 8:28pm
|
Doc that's right if it is used in a different context or sentence related to a civil or criminal court proceeding or a court of law. But in reference to a sanding application it would refer to Dual Action and then someone makes the foolish statement that they say they know what they are talking about and own said item and then go on to give an erroneous example of a DA and confuse it with a polisher deserves a smart a$$ starcastic remark.
It's realy hard to discripe facial expression or tone of voice on the computer and your a$$umption that I'm raging mad and screaming is also erroneous as well. Since It was done as a general starcastic responce with a normal tone of voice as I was talking to my best friend or a group of my buddies. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: November-07-2006 at 10:15pm
|
This is too much fun.I believe the proper term for the polisher Tim is referencing is "Random Orbital".Good for bringing out the shine(low speed).Rotary-good for removing refinish scratches(high speed).
Tim,DA sanders aren't agressive unless you want them to be.You honestly could have saved a bunch of time with a finer grit DA disc,and cut the wet sanding in half(at least).If you have deep scratches,DA's are excellent for feathering the edges and eliminating the heavy handwork.Wetsanding bites. Reguardless,your boat looks great. Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-08-2006 at 7:10am
|
Mike, I figured I would only do this once, so by hand was my method of choice. No one I spoke to suggested using a DA sander- they all said by hand with a rigid block on the agressive grits was the best way to go, and switching to a rubber block was OK at 600 or 800 grit. I agree, wetsanding bites. Im happy with the results though.
Chris, obviously Im no body man. But Im not making this stuff up either. The 7224 and 7336 (same machine with a different counterweight and backing plate) are referred to as "DA's" by detailers. From the article I referenced before: "Some people have defined the Porter Cable 7424’s tool action as “jiggling”, but this is not the case. The head freely rotates on a bearing and orbits around the centerline driveshaft. Rotation is a free-wheeling action of the backing plate spindle caused by the orbiting head. This “dual-action” is where the Porter Cable 7424 gets its “DA” nickname." I didnt mean to mislead anyone- Im just repeating information that Ive gotten from people who know more than me. To add fuel to the fire, Porter Cable calls their http://www.portercable.com/index.asp?e=547&p=2806 - 7336SP a random orbit sander with a polishing pad. Maybe its not a true DA like you speak of, but Ive heard it reffered to as such and it is electric. ------------- |
Posted By: David F
Date Posted: November-08-2006 at 8:58am
You chose the best and safest method. I might add that it is ok to sand using the palm of your hand when you get to 600. Rubber sanding blocks should be thrown in the trash. Regardless of what you call a tool, if it is what you need and suits your needs, you can call it a widget for all I care. IMHO, polishers and grinders are the most confusing of all tools when it comes to names for the many different types of tools available. ------------- |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: November-08-2006 at 9:12am
|
Walk up to a tool truck and ask for a DA and I'll guaranty he's not going to hand you anything with a cord on it made from porter cable, dewalt or any other power tool company that spins less than 6,000 rpm. He's going to hand you a pnuematic sander that spins over 10,000 rpm so If that's what a bunch of other yahoo's are telling you in another chat room keep getting your info there becuase they don't know d*ck about anything either. Scott what are you going to wetsand with your hand or a DA? again it goes back to the skill and knowledge of the end user. Every car that I've ssen painted is wet sanded then polished and they don't use the same piece of equipment to do both, f**king wanta bees. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: November-08-2006 at 9:38am
|
79
is that a new type or strain of bees that have moved in on ya'll???? maybe simular to the Killer Bees from Mexico..If possible please give more info so we can be on the lookout for them in La.I have my radar pointed east, looking and hoping they dont come here.BTW the meds must be working i only see 2 bleep bleeps in your post...........boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-08-2006 at 9:47am
|
Autopia is one of the largest detailing forums on the net and theres a lot of good info there, so I dont know if I would say they "dont know d*ck about anything." Perhaps the term DA is mis-used when referencing the PC polishers, though. From now on ill refer to them strictly as "random orbital" polishers just for you Chris!
If youre skilled and knowledgeable about using a DA sander, Im sure you could save a bunch of time going that route. However, great results can be had wetsanding by hand for those without those skills or equipment. ------------- |
Posted By: David F
Date Posted: November-08-2006 at 10:03am
|
I am going to go out on a limb here and say that I consider myself fairly skilled in paint or gelcoat finish work (I have done both, more paint than gelcoat). Definately not a pro as I do not do it for a living every day. What I do know is that for the majority of members on this site, if you attempt to use power or air sanders on the compound and concave curves on the boat (i.e. the sides of the hull near the bow), then you run a very high risk of F'ing up your boat.
When I was re-gelcoating this area of my boat, I attempted to use my pneumatic DA sander (huge air hog) and was not happy with the results. The problem is that you cannot get enough of the surface of the pad on the gelcoat and you end up segmenting the surface (i.e. creating flat spots), or taking off too much material too quickly, or problems at the end of your stroke, etc. I ended up respraying the area. The best method was block sanding with the block position in such a manner as to get the best surface area contact. The block size of choice was about 1" wide by about 4" long. DA sanders on the deck or other convex simple curves work fine. Go ahead, just try to use that DA at the base of the windsheild where it curves down into the deck...good luck. ------------- |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: November-08-2006 at 10:17am
|
Again it's back to the skill and knowledge and why you would try and use a 6" pad on a 2" radius bets the hell out of me, Know one ever said that you can do the whole thing with a DA, you don't on a car and sure wouldn't on a boat either, might use a smaller diameter pad to get into the smallr areas but sometimes it's still too big to work.
looked at the autopia site far from authority on detailing, good info but more of a self promotion for the manufacturer of a line a polishes and waxes but you can call it what you want. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: David F
Date Posted: November-08-2006 at 10:29am
|
You wouldn't, just an example of the many such places on the hull of a boat...like the sides of the hull.
I used a combination of hand sanding, DA, pneumatic file (in-line sander), grinder, palm sanders, you name it to repair my boat. Man, those pneumatic sanders really taxed by air compressor to the point I had to let the compressor rest before I had to rest...what air hogs! When it was down to the making it look pretty, hand sanding produced the best results, by far. Now, with that said, if you really watch the automotive pros, they do most of the finish sanding by hand, by far. Almost forgot this little tidbit. When I was gathering information on materials and methods to repair my boat, I talked in length to a local fibergla$$ boat repair pro who has been in business in my area for dozens of years. I asked him the best way to sand out the orange peel from spraying gelcoat. He said only way to do it right was by hand. He was right! I will say that I used the palm sander in the flater areas to get most of the orange peel sanded down, then switched to hand sanding to get good control when switching to the finer grits. ------------- |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-08-2006 at 10:47am
If you looked at the http://autopia.org/forum/index.php? - forums then you would have realized its all individual contributors sharing their knowledge (just like here). Autopia does have a http://www.autopia-carcare.com/ - store , but I rarely find it mentioned in the forums. I dont post there (just search) and have found it a good resource. Of course, you have to weed out the people who dont know what theyre talking about, but you have to do that on any public forum, dont you Chris? ------------- |
Posted By: skicat
Date Posted: November-08-2006 at 11:10am
|
I will have to agree with 79 on 1 point. It is depending on the skill level. I am sure there are people that can do it with a power sander (whatever type), but I felt more comfortable doing mine by hand which did take longer & it was harder, but I felt like I had more control on how much I sanded by hand. I would probably consider most people on here like me, the weekend warrior that can & will tackle about anything we need to do to our boats, but not considered a pro at any of it. I sure would not respond to anyone asking how to go about bringing back a shine to grab a power sander & have at it. My advise would have to error on the side of caution. ------------- Greg http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2427&yrstart=1981&yrend=1985" rel="nofollow - 86 BFN |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: November-08-2006 at 11:22am
Alright, so I'm a little confused. I got this angle grinder off Ebay for $8 and I want to buff my deck. What pad do I need???  ------------- |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: November-08-2006 at 11:26am
|
Well if your going to grab a DA and load it with 320 grit paper all your going to do is f**k it up, That's why I said use 1000 grit and 1500, different strokes for different fokes I guess. I don't like spending that much time on something that can be done in a fraction of the time and have the same results. I tryed the hand sanding deal when I had to remove the lettering on the stern spent about a 30-40 mintues and said f**k this called my buddy asked if I could borrow his DA went and got it and was done in 5 minutes using 1000 grit paper. Where with hand sanding it for 30 plus minutes didn't even remove one letter guess I should have used a lower grit paper to realy scratch it up instead of doing what I know was right. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: November-08-2006 at 11:29am
this is what you do throw it in the tool box hook up the trailer to the car and take it to someone that has the right tools and knows what the f**k their doing. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: November-08-2006 at 11:35am
| I don't know how this thread got away from me all this time- great entertainment. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-08-2006 at 11:49am
A fool with a tool is still a fool. Just kidding, Chris! ------------- |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: November-08-2006 at 12:00pm
That's right your still a tool that is a fool. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-08-2006 at 12:06pm
LOL ------------- |
Posted By: skicat
Date Posted: November-08-2006 at 12:40pm
The real question is did 88 Nautique or anyone else looking for info on buffing/sanding get their answer or just some good laughs?  ------------- Greg http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2427&yrstart=1981&yrend=1985" rel="nofollow - 86 BFN |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: November-08-2006 at 12:47pm
|
skicat; is this forum to be used for info?????
I was under the impression it was used for entertainment,and who has the biggest tool............ boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: 88 Nautique
Date Posted: November-08-2006 at 3:33pm
|
I hope I didn't start all this. In my one post when I said I was going to use a "polisher for the task" I didn't mean I was going to use a polisher for the sanding if I decide to sand. I would do it by hand. I may just start out with the rubbing compound first to see if that will work ok for me.
Can't we all just get along?  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1657" rel="nofollow - My 88 Nautique |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: November-08-2006 at 10:35pm
isle 5, ask for the pads with wings.. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: November-15-2006 at 8:54am
|
Tim (trbenj)
Just looking at the photo of the shine you've got on your boat deck inspired me. I removed the windshield and all deck hardware sunday and started wet sanding and buffing the top deck. Small sample area I've got done looks great. I did this last year to the sides but only buffed the top so I still had a lot of small scratches that will be gone by spring. 
Gotta work on buffing the windshield aluminum frame out and I pulled the speedos and Steering bezels to have them rechromed over the winter. Should be looking really good for Green Lake this year. Hope guys make it out ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: bbrech1
Date Posted: November-15-2006 at 10:08am
Here are some before and after shots, required a little more than buffing.
 |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-15-2006 at 10:09am
Alan, youre going to put us all to shame if this is the "before" picture!
I cant wait to see it in person. Removing all the hardware definitely makes it easier to work. I didnt enjoy putting the windshield back on, but now that its powdercoated I hope Ill never do it again. Ill be doing the exact opposite as you- Ive only done the deck so far, so Ill be doing the side gel come springtime. Ill definitely be at GL. ------------- |
Posted By: skicat
Date Posted: November-15-2006 at 11:20am
|
Nice shine bbrech1. You said it took more than buffing, so where did you have to start? Wet sanding, then buffing? ------------- Greg http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2427&yrstart=1981&yrend=1985" rel="nofollow - 86 BFN |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-15-2006 at 11:43am
|
I beleive he went all the way down to 320 grit. Im not sure going that aggressive was entirely necessary, but its tough to argue with results like that. ------------- |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: November-15-2006 at 12:53pm
|
Tim,
That is a sweet picture and I have to Thank PLBC for snapping it. That is now my background for my computer desktop. As far as I can tell that pic made it on to the Planet Nautique 2007 Calender, it's the only photo of an older boat that made the cut so I'm pretty proud of it. Good work Kurt. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: November-15-2006 at 1:19pm
|
Kurt ,Multi-tasking is not normal for us guys,driveability and trouble shooting,combined with the shutterbug talent makes you a true a$$ett to this site.
boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: PLBC
Date Posted: November-15-2006 at 1:32pm
|
Not a bad pic for just waking up in a tent with a hangover.
Alan, I have a full res pic you can have if you don't already. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5164&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 99 |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: November-15-2006 at 1:52pm
|
Alan, that is a great pic, got my vote on the PN calender.
Kurt, seems waking up with a tent and a hangover would be just another day for a member of the PLBC! |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: November-15-2006 at 2:12pm
| The 81 is my desktop background as well, comin' at me on dual monitors. |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: November-15-2006 at 2:18pm
|
There's that youth thing again, Waking up pitching a tent!!!
Thanks to all that voted, I am honored. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: November-15-2006 at 2:31pm
|
Joel,
We got so darn busy down at Shelby you forgot to take it for a drive. Have to do so in the spring, it may have a set of Gt40 heads on it by then. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: November-15-2006 at 2:42pm
I just got this. Hilarious. |
Posted By: bbrech1
Date Posted: November-15-2006 at 3:39pm
I originally started with 400 but it was taking too long. I personally found better results using the 320 (Get a quicker cut from it). I then worked 320 – 400 – 600 – 800 – 1000, then buffed with heavy cut and then with swirl remover. Removing all of the external hardware is definitely a must!!
|
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-15-2006 at 3:56pm
|
Brad, at first glance it didnt look like you needed to go that coarse to restore the shine- this pic shows why it was necessary:
My deck was similarly yellowed and I had to be pretty agressive with it. Were you able to match the original gel 100%? It sure looks like you came pretty close to matching the color underneath the stickers. Did you wetsand or buff your rub rail? Mine needs it. Again, great job. ------------- |
Posted By: bbrech1
Date Posted: November-15-2006 at 5:22pm
|
Both
I wetsanded the bad spots with 1500 and buffed the entire thing after words. Make sure that you have it on a low speed and don't stay in one spot too long, because you will start to burn it. After sanding I was able to match it to the origional. It was real easy to see the yellow come off. That was the goal with the 320, sand until there was no more yellow. It was difficult to sand around the rub rail (didn't really want to take it off) |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-15-2006 at 9:59pm
|
Good to know- did you just compound the rub rail or did you polish it as well?
Pulling the rub rail was one thing I didnt want to do either- and you can tell I hit it with the buffer. Its burned in some places while other spots are pretty shiny. Ill have to hit it with some sandpaper for sure. ------------- |
Posted By: bbrech1
Date Posted: November-15-2006 at 10:32pm
| I just used the compound on it. I'm sure that it would look better if I polished it, but by then I was burnt out from working on it all winter long. |
Posted By: 88 Nautique
Date Posted: November-19-2006 at 7:17pm
|
Any problems or tips about removing/reinstalling the windshield?
The plastic snap-in mouldings that cover where the screws are need replacing. Does anyone know where to get them? Kurt ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1657" rel="nofollow - My 88 Nautique |
Posted By: bbrech1
Date Posted: November-19-2006 at 8:37pm
|
I could reuse the plastic snap-in moulding. The window is quite easy to take out with two people. On my 89, the two side wings slid into a grove in the main window. I took the side wings out first and then the main window.
|
Posted By: Nautique2001
Date Posted: March-29-2007 at 12:07pm
|
Tim,
I read your comments in the beginning about 1000 grit paper. Would this be used to "sand" the fiberglass and blue paint (minus graphics) ?? I have a little oxidation on the stern, blue paint where it say Correct Craft, Competition Ski Boat. Does the 1000 grit paper leave swirl marks? This is what I'm looking to buy, along with their premium wax. http://www.meguiars.com/?boat-finishing-papers/Unigrit-Finishing-Papers - 1000 Grit Paper Thanks! Ken ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1052&sort=&pagenum=4&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: March-29-2007 at 12:38pm
|
Ive heard very good things about Meguires Unigrit paper- its supposed to be very consistent. Too bad the most aggressive grit they make is 1000. Assuming its aggressive enough to remove the oxidation, it would be fine.
Wetsanding the gel coat always has to be followed up by compounding and polish. Each successive step you do must remove the scratches left by the previous round. After hitting the gel with 1000 grit, you'll want to hit it with some really aggressive compound using a buffer. I used the superduty compound, microfinishing compound, and finess-it II polish (followed by wax for protection) to get the finish smooth and shiny. If you want specific recommendations on products, pads and tools (and where to buy them), shoot me an email. ------------- |
Posted By: 88 Nautique
Date Posted: March-29-2007 at 3:48pm
|
You could even follow it with 1500 grit before you use compound. Or if the oxidation isn't so bad, try starting with 1500.
Make sure you use a good compounding pad (wool) on your polisher. The one that came with my Harbor Freight polisher was crap so I went to the local paint shop and bought a good one as well as a good polishing pad (foam). They made all the difference in the world. Costed me a bunch though but I didn't want to wait for mail order. About the rub rail, I didn't want to take it off either so I just put some 3M blue masking tape on it so I wouldn't scratch it. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1657" rel="nofollow - My 88 Nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: March-29-2007 at 3:50pm
Depends on the compound youre using. The 3M Superduty I used removes 1000 grit scratches. Id rather make a pass over the gel with a buffer than wetsanding by hand any day. ------------- |
Posted By: 88 Nautique
Date Posted: March-29-2007 at 3:53pm
|
TR
But did you switch to a less agressive compound after the super duty or did you just go with polish after that? Kurt ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1657" rel="nofollow - My 88 Nautique |
Posted By: 88 Nautique
Date Posted: March-29-2007 at 3:56pm
|
Disreguard the last post. If I would have read the tread I would have seen you used Micro compound. Sorry ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1657" rel="nofollow - My 88 Nautique |
Posted By: bsucics
Date Posted: April-27-2007 at 6:21pm
|
Do you guys use rigid or flexible backing plates for your rotary polishers? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1840" rel="nofollow - 1989 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-27-2007 at 6:46pm
|
I use a 3M 2+2 on a Milwaukee 9" buffer. It is fairly ridgid. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-27-2007 at 8:10pm
|
I would say mine is fairly rigid as well. Its just a basic 6" hook and loop backing plate- I think the brand is Milwaukee. ------------- |
Posted By: Chrissn2001
Date Posted: May-02-2007 at 8:13am
| I may have missed it somewhere or maybe it wasn't mentioned, but what if you keep your boat in the water? What's the best way to remove the initial crusting of scum? I know, I never thought I'd be the guy that keeps his boat in the water either, but I am... |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: May-02-2007 at 8:19am
Off/On hull cleaner works great. Ive heard muriatic acid works well too. Just dont let them sit long on decals, paint (trailer), etc. ------------- |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-02-2007 at 9:51pm
|
Slimey Grimey, works like magic, use it every fall on the boats that sit in Lake Erie all season, I will apply with a weed sprayer and as soon as it hits the grime and algae it rolls right off ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |