Frozen
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4839
Printed Date: November-30-2024 at 11:57am
Topic: Frozen
Posted By: bwill14
Subject: Frozen
Date Posted: September-23-2006 at 8:48pm
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I just bought a 351 CCW with a Velvet Drive. The guy I purchased it from said he winterized it after using it once last year and hasn't done anything this year. Said he put marvel mystery in the oil and on top of each cylinder. He had the manifolds off because he intended to replace them.
I had to change out the steering cable because it was totally stuck. Took out the spark plugs and tried to turn over the motor, but nothing. Have a new batter and can hear the starter engaging, but motor won’t budge. I even tried a breaker bar on the fly wheel, but could not get it to turn. (The bolt started to loosen, so I tightened it back) It would not budge in either direction. I am not that much of a mechanic. Any tricks to get a motor turning, before I drop it off at the marina. Thanks much, Brent ------------- Brent |
Replies:
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: September-24-2006 at 12:21am
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sounds to me like you better take your wallet to the marina with you, you know how many guys say they winterized something and they actually dont,he has those manifolds off for a reason and i dont think it was to paint them, good luck on this one.people tend to paint a great picture when they are trying to sell something. i do not know anyone who pulls spark plugs out and puts mystery oil in them, anyone else ever hear of this? the only time i do hear of someone doing this is when they are trying to unstick a stuck engine ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: jimbo
Date Posted: September-24-2006 at 1:50pm
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Doesn't sound good. I agree with eric, the only time I've heard of putting mystry oil in the cylinders was to free things up. Shoot some PB Blaster in the spark plug holes, let it sit for 20 minutes or so then follow up with mystry oil, then try cranking with the breaker bar. Two years of mystry oil on the rings may have gooed them up.
If nothing happens then, I'd pull the heads and see what's going on. |
Posted By: bwill14
Date Posted: September-25-2006 at 10:48am
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Eric and Jimbo,
Thanks for the thoughts. I may very well be wrong, but I don't think this guy tried to unload it bad. He did a total restore: new stringers, floor, carpet, seats, vinyl, gages, cover, bimini, shaft, and prop. I will try the PB Blaster. If not, I'll bring my wallet to the marina. Great deal on the boat may just be an OK deal... Thanks, Brent |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: September-25-2006 at 11:11am
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If you cann't get it to turn over then you really don't want to be taking it to the marina you want to pull the motor and send it to the machine shop and make sure They have done reverse rotation engines, ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: jimbo
Date Posted: September-25-2006 at 11:26am
| http://bpi.ebasicpower.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=ebasicpower&Category_Code=LonGBLOCKS - Remanufactured Long block 351w Reverse Rotation |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: September-25-2006 at 1:01pm
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I thin even if you did get the motor unfroze you will probably have alot of pitting on the cylinder walls, what area do you live in? maybe one of these guys knows a reputable shop in your area, like 79 said.... DONT TAKE TO YOUR MARINA.what i meant was be preppared to spend some$$$$ especially if you do go to the marina. do you have any friends that are mechanically inclined to help you out? dont be afraid to post your questions on this forum these guys will help you thru this without getting you hurt in the wallet ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: September-25-2006 at 3:21pm
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get a long block is a much better route to go. All you have to do is mount the intake, alt, starter, RWP, WP, dist, fuel pump and valve covers. the hardest part is the dist and if your handy with tools it's really not that hard to do your self. Where are you located? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: bwill14
Date Posted: September-25-2006 at 9:17pm
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Well, the PB Blaster worked. It took 2 treatments and some real good pressure on the breaker bar, but it is turning now even with the starter. I will put the plugs back in and exhaust on tomorrow and see if she runs.
Any thing else you would suggest seeing that it sat for a year. Thanks, Brent |
Posted By: jimbo
Date Posted: September-26-2006 at 1:02am
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Hey, glad it busted loose for you. And the pistons seem to be able to run through their range... but hold the champagne, dancing girls and propeller-topped Fezes... There may be some othere things going on. But at this point, you don't have much to loose so fire it up and see what happens.
Since you asked: l'd suggest changing the oil and filter, transmission fuild, impeller, spark pluges, cap, rotor, throw the points in the river and put in an Electronic Ignition Module, new plug wires, new coil, new belts and hoses, new thermostat, hell, new battery, new fuel filter and a can of Sea Foam in the gas tank -- and a new tow rope! -->That's if you are a boy scout and want to be prepared. 
And wow enter the Sean Connery voice: Otherwise, I'd charge up the battery, dump a can of sea foam in the tank, squirt some mystry oil in the chambers (not PB this time). If the plugs look ok, tighten them down. Connect a garden hose to the water intake and give it a crack. Ohh, but leave the engine cover open and pump the throttle 3X first. If it starts, let it run! At mid idle or high idle if needed. Let it get up to temp (160 or so). Look for hose leaks and leaks at gaskets. Check the oil pressure, temperature. Listen for crazy sounds. After it's warm, give it ->a little ga$$<- and check things again. Shut it down after about 30 minutes. Check the oil and trany fluid. The oil should look nice and golden maple syrup and the transmission fluid like boysenberry syrup. If you have a mud slide or a strawberry shake, water is is geeting in some where. Some times easy to fix, sometimes not so easy to fix...post results!  If none of this makes since, I'll try again in the morning.
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Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: September-26-2006 at 8:27am
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I would start by changing the oil and and adding a 1qt of tranny fluid with 4 qts of 10w40 and new filter to help loosing the internals up remember it a CCW rotating engine as view from the front. Don't worry about the tune-up just yet you need to get the rings freed up and check for a blown head gasket or water intrusion in the block. But do run it in the drive with a garden hose stuck in the pick-up hose. Also take apart the RWP and replace or inspect the impellar so that you do not starve the motor of coolant and over heat it right off the bat.
Good luck and keep posting updates. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 79Tique
Date Posted: September-27-2006 at 4:07pm
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Hey bwill, 79Nautique and jimbo know what they are talking about. They have both been helpful to me. I agree don't invest much in a tune up untill you know what kind of shape the motor is in.
From a fellow Newbie. ------------- Work to live, not live to work. |
Posted By: bwill14
Date Posted: September-28-2006 at 4:38pm
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Thanks so much for all the help and information. I was going to cancel the dancing girls, but I would have lost my deposit.
I had intended to already have tested it in the driveway as mentioned. But, I had to get new manifold bolts, as the current were MIA. I did go ahead and change the oil (with the quart of transmission fluid added). Should have the next update by the weekend. Thanks again. Brent |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: September-28-2006 at 5:16pm
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Brent run the oil the way it is for awhile but change it out after you get some hours on the motor if it comes back to life and it's ready for that tune-up. Get the model number off of the dist. and get a converstion kit to ditch the points once everything is freed up and ready to run.
either run it in the drive for awhile or have another running boat along side if you take it out so you don't get stranded and can get a tow back to the dock. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: bwill14
Date Posted: October-03-2006 at 9:35am
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Well, I haven't gotten much further. New issue has come up. No one had the PCM manifold bolts in stock (allen head), so I got stainless steal hex head. Realized in putting them on that the allen heads are used for a reason. It is very hard to get the hex heads tight with the limited space around each bolt. Bought as many allen heads (8) as I could find at a local hardware store on Saturday, put them in every other hole and a hex head the best I could in the others. Maybe I should have just waited for more allen heads, but I only get so much time to work on this with kids and all. I stuck my garden hose up the raw water intake hose and turned the started. Didn't turn it long when I noticed some water coming out of one of the manifold bolt holes (a hex head that I did not have completely tight I guesse). My concern is that the manifolds and/or risers are bad to have water at the manifold - block connection. It is my understanding that the water does not join the exhaust until after the angle down to the back of the boat. Tried to tighen down the risers and manifolds even more to see if it was just the seals and broke a bolt off that connects the riser to manifold.
The person I bought it from did say he was replacing both the manifolds and risers and that is why he had them off. I am thinking of ordering new and the kit form SKIDIM, but wanted to post this first to see if the water from that manifold bolt would mean bigger issues or if water there would somehow be natural with a garden hose forcing water, but no exhaust coming from cylinders yet. Thanks! Brent |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: October-03-2006 at 11:23am
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No not normal, its bad either manifolds or head gasket/ crack in the block type issues. But based on your situation and the PO having them off you probably just have manifold leaks. Good luck
-Joe. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: bwill14
Date Posted: October-13-2006 at 8:07pm
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Had a compression check done. Wanted to see if my water issue could be head gasket, crack, etc. Compression was not good. 5 were over 100, with 2 at 135. The lower three were at 75. It is my understanding that is way to far a margin. I am going to have to get some help, as we are beyond any ability that I have.
But, do I just have a complete rebuild or check out some other pieces first. Thanks, Brent ------------- Brent |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-13-2006 at 8:43pm
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sorry to hear, it's winter and this stuff pops up everywear, dont make any quick decisions. keep watching e bay, marine stuff goes real cheap from here on out to spring. watch this site and put a wanted add up, time is on your side. I personally stay away from high volume engine rebuilders such as budget, jasper etc. because there is no way you can put an engine together with qaulity parts and charge so little. do some investigating if you decide to have it done locally and dont be afraid to pay a little more at the more reputable shop and make sure they are familier with marine engines. make sure that they have an iron clad warranty in case something happens including r and r labor ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: October-14-2006 at 9:34am
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Did you ever get it to run, or did the lack of manifold hold you back? Its slightly possible that if you got it running and up to temp and banged some oil through it you could recover some compression that you maybe loosing due to light surface rust, stuck rings etc. If you never got to try and get it to run then I would say replace the manifold and do that before you worry too much about compression numbers.
Joe. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-14-2006 at 10:12am
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there must be some heavy pitting in the cylinders or some damage to the rings, when you get wierd compression across the board they should squirt some heavier oil in the cylinders then check again if the compression comes up then you know the problem is the rings, either hung in the grooves from rust or pitting etc... ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: bwill14
Date Posted: October-14-2006 at 4:14pm
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Never did get it to run. I stopped trying because of the water at the manifold / block. Needs new ignition in addition. We may play with it a little more and see what kind of compression after running a bit.
Can I hurt anything, if rebuild is my other option? ------------- Brent |
Posted By: osg_ryan
Date Posted: October-16-2006 at 5:58pm
| Your same problem stuck motor happened to me, I ended up having it rebuilt $$$$$$ 1700.00 later but well worth it. its like a new boat |