My Tranny oil loooks like a Cafe Moca
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4842
Printed Date: November-27-2024 at 2:49pm
Topic: My Tranny oil loooks like a Cafe Moca
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Subject: My Tranny oil loooks like a Cafe Moca
Date Posted: September-23-2006 at 10:56pm
Went to drain my tranny oil tonight and was kind of shocked at what came out when I pumped it out. When I first checked the fluid it looked ok but old but not like this. I am afraid water is getting in there. maybe through the tranny cooler? I don't know. I am going to add more Dexron and try running it again and seeing what it looks like, drain it again... until it is clear. I may wait to take it to the lake, seemed like it ran a little warm. I have a Fake-A-Lake hooked up to it and water comes out of the exhaust but it seems like the exhaust manifolds get hotter than when in the water. I may buy one of those valves that pluges into the water intake line and take the Fake-A-Lake back to the marina. Doesn't look good, yet the boat seemd to run fine when I took it out for about an hour a few days ago. Also I drained my 30wt. oil and I am going to add 40wt. Castrol oil. BTW- Check out the pump I got at Sears, attaches to your drill and pumps fluid out. worked great! Had to get a couple feet of clear PVC hose and some hose fittings ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Replies:
Posted By: The Dude
Date Posted: September-23-2006 at 11:04pm
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Yikes! Maybe you can heat it up, add some steamed milk, and get 4 bones a up for it on ebay.
There are a couple posts on here about trying to clear water out of tranny fluid. It may take you several changes... ------------- Mullet Free since 93 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=717&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - 95 Sport |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: September-24-2006 at 12:01am
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randy,if you change that oil 5 times it wouldnt be enough, the pcm transmissions do not like water!!!!! it causes the cast iron seal rings to sieze on the drum and spin in the case causing creating grooves and forward to slip. remove the cooler and pressure test.unlike a borg warner which has cascading oil going thru the cooler(low pressure) the pcm has more pressure going to the cooler circiuit which oil most likely will go out the back of the boat. try to change the oil 3 times before running it. it is impossible to get all of the water out of these transmissions. not trying to scare you but if i rebuild 10 of these trannies 5 of them are from getting water in them. they do not like water at all. try to figure out where the water is coming from. when you change that oil fill the trans to the top to dilute oil as much as possible, get it to temp and drain, repeat 2 more times... ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: September-24-2006 at 12:29am
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Thanks Eric,
So how much tran. oil do you thik it should take to fill it (do you mean over-fill it?). should I do this in the driveway with the fake-a-lake (I am kind of worried about this) ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: jimbo
Date Posted: September-24-2006 at 12:36am
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That's nasty. I've seen pepto-bismol looking fluid but not Cafe Au Lait. Is that an indication of rust?
Your oil cooler is probably in good shape. I bet water got in the tranny by them leaving the boat in the water with that leaky shaft seal. Worst case, bolt on a Velvet Drive. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: September-24-2006 at 10:40am
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maybe you didnt notice the water when you first bought the boat because the oil sat on the top, like vinegar and water, then when you ran it you mixed it all up. the oil may have been in there over the last 2 years.
you have to get the oil out, you can run with a f.a.l but you must keep the strut cool and lubed with water, you'll need 2 hoses.put as much oil as you can in the trans(NO ADDITIVES EVER) (it wont hurt anything) and run it in all gears f and r until hot, remove cooler line and drain with engine. repeat at least 3 times. this is a good time to switch over to dexron mercon. look at your tag and see what it says to run. disregard sae 20w. they switched all transmissions over to dexron. try ti figure out exactly how the oil got in there, like i said it may have been in there from the previous owner. after you change the oil go water test and give us the results, pay special attention to the tach, watch for the tach for spiking ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: jimbo
Date Posted: September-24-2006 at 1:34pm
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Hey Eric, I'm curious what you think about this...
Running 20 SAE for a while (10-20 hours)then change back to Dexron. Keep it under 3k rpms. The oil has more/better detergents than dexron. What's your opinion? |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: September-24-2006 at 1:56pm
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Is it ok to pump it out of the fill hole like I did before or should I take the hose off the tranny and run it. I am not sure which hose to remove and exactly how to do this. I am doing this right now. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: September-24-2006 at 4:44pm
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most straight weights are detergent free, im not an expert on oil, there really is not a need for a detergent oil in a trans, now for a engine it is crucial to run detergent oil for all the deposits created from fuel and blow by.
i would switch to dexron and flush it many times. randy if you have a pump use the pump. hopefully you will be sucessful at cleaning this trans out. the oil gets trapped behind the pistons and in the valve area and creates nothing but problems ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: September-24-2006 at 4:55pm
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I have changd it three times now. it is starting to look better. More like tomato soup now.
How do I know my tranny cooler is not leaking, I am afraid it may have burst when not winterized. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: September-24-2006 at 6:22pm
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keep going, usually the cooler self drains but you may have to remove and pressure test. i block one side with a 3/8 npt pipe plug and istall air chuck on other side and pressurize with about 50 psi then i put under water and look for bubbles ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: September-24-2006 at 9:06pm
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Well, I'm going to have to wait a couple days to finish this project, I am taking it to get the trailer fixed up.
when I get it back I am going to pressure test the tranny cooler and change the oil again and again and again... I will let you know how it comes out. Thanks for all the help Eric and Jimbo. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: October-01-2006 at 11:25pm
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Jimbo, I think you are right. I talked to my friend I bought the boat from, and he said that the bilge did fill with water and covered the tranny.
I am hoping to get the boat back from the trailer shop in the next day or two. I am off this week so I want to put it on the water and change the fluid. I have over 3 gal of Dexton to use. I will report back an let you know how it comes out... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-02-2006 at 10:20am
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randy, how long do you think the water sat in the trans? like i mentioned earlier the oil and water seperate and the oil stays at the top allowing no oxygen to get below to the water and start to rust and pit bearing areas. enjoy the week off, spend sometime at westbranch its nice during the week there ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: October-02-2006 at 2:20pm
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Eric, he pulled the boat out of the water in early November '05 and parked it in his garage until I bought it last month. He told me the tranny was covered with water, my guess is the water seeped in through the fill/drain hole and, like you said, sat on the bottom, like a bottle of un-shaken italian dressing.
So, how much damage do you think this has caused? I was thinking of heading out there (Westbranch). The weather forcast looked real nice Sunday but as of this morning that has all changed. Go figure, you can't predict the weather in NE Ohio. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-02-2006 at 2:35pm
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time will tell on the trans. I guess at this point if its not broke dont fix it, i skipped worked today and like you said...Ohio weather,gray and gloomy
dont worry about the trans if something happens we'll take care of it, ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: The Dude
Date Posted: October-02-2006 at 10:36pm
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Buckeyes are sick. They make everyone else look bad. That Gonzalez guy can run as well as Ginn, Jr. ------------- Mullet Free since 93 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=717&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - 95 Sport |
Posted By: jimbo
Date Posted: October-03-2006 at 3:14am
| I agree with eric. Don't sweat the transmission. Run it as much as you can now until it gets cold. If it's going to fail, hopefully it will be before winter, then you'll be able to rebuild it and not loose any summer time fun. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-03-2006 at 7:11am
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I agree, good winter project, he may have gotten all the goo out and it could easily go for years ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: October-03-2006 at 8:38am
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Thanks for the input guys. I am going to call today to see if my trailer is ready to roll. I need to get the rest of that tranny oil out of her. The forcast is calling for T-storms, what the hell do they know, looks nice out there right now. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-04-2006 at 3:28pm
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hey randy, are you pretty mechanically inclined? if you could pull that trans we could buzz thru it one saturday morning, dont worry saturdays are my kind heart days I turn off the charge clock on friday at 5:00, it would only take a couple of hours. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: October-04-2006 at 4:18pm
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Eric, I really appreciate the offer and I may take you up on that one weekend this winter. I'm pretty good when it comes to mechanical things. I'm kinda afraid of the alignment, not sure about that or if I have the right tools to align it. how much do you think I would have in parts?
trailer shop just called, got to go pick it up and take it to get tires... Thanks again Eric ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-04-2006 at 5:29pm
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basically a seal and gasket kit, we'll tear it apart and clean it and check the rest of the condition of the trans, I have a ton of hard parts for these trannies in case we run into a problem ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: October-04-2006 at 7:08pm
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Sounds good. maybe sometime in November/December. That would probably be a good time to put one of those shaft seals in and get the prop redone. How dificult is it to pull it out and put it back in? Looks like it should be pretty easy. I am just worried about the alignment. I'm not really sure how this is done.
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-04-2006 at 7:47pm
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you worry to much, we'll go step by step on the alignment i have all the tools you need, just let me know when your ready. it would be a good time to do the dripless, media blast the prop and rudder,put the shaft on v-blocks and check it etc.... eric ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: October-05-2006 at 12:22am
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lol, I've been told that before...
When you say "put the shaft on v-blocks" what do you mean? (sorry for the ignorance) I got it back from the trailer shop, pulls much better now. The trailer was in real bad shape, my buddy had lost a wheel once on a bridge in Tennesee. He told me he had to drag it off the bridge with no wheel! Well the guy that fixed the trailer for me said the "U" bolts that hold the axel to the frame were almost ground all the way through, he showed them to me, you could bend them with your hands  I am taking it to get new tires in the morning then I think I will take it to the lake (probably Turkeyfoot, maybe West Branch) I have all this trans fluid so I guess i will go ahead and keep changing it to get the water out. I dont think that water can't be good so I'll try to get out as much as possible.
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-05-2006 at 7:33am
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the v-blocks check it for straightness, it wont hurt anything changing that oil, it looks like rain again, i dont know ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: October-05-2006 at 8:02pm
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Got it in the water today. Had some problems with the distributer I put on last night. Wouldn't start so I took the cap off and the roter was cracked. got a new roter, put it on, same thing, cracked roter. So pulled the boat out of the water, parked it, went home and got the old cap and roter, went back and put it on, started right up. took it out and ran it, changed the trans oil three more times, it is starting to look a lot better.I may have to change it a few more times but it is looking pretty good. It ran great!
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-05-2006 at 9:33pm
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good to hear you got out, pretty tuff getting all that oil out? maybe the initiative will pay off on the oil changes, thats why i said if you changed the oil 10 times it would'nt be enough. pcm's really hate water inside them they really do not last very long and the water causes major damage if left alone, what i mean by major damage is resleeving the case,new forward drum, seal and gasket kit, clutch kit, 800.00 to 1000.00 in parts. alot of times it is wiser to buy a new trans because of the $$$$ for the parts ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: October-05-2006 at 10:09pm
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Eric- The oil was easy to get out with the that drill pump I had. Just took some empty gal. containers and pumped it out.
So, what your saying is I'm better off pulling it this winter and going through it? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-06-2006 at 7:34am
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you need a crystal ball, i go by one rule, if its not broke dont fix it. obviously i have the resources to fix it quickly if the boat were mine. for you if you want a piece of mind you need to decide. i really think you flushed it thouroughly and did not run it long enough to create damage. my offer still stands though. Eric ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: October-06-2006 at 4:03pm
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I am going to take it out again this weekend. Well see how it goes, change the trans oil a few more times... You may be right, I don't think it had a chance to run through very long.., I guess you don't really know unless you tear it apart. Thanks again for the offer, I really appreciate it, and I may still take you up on it. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-06-2006 at 8:51pm
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dont worry, even if something went wrong in early spring with the transmission or mid summer, we'd get you fixed up so you would'nt miss any weekends, hopefully you didnt pa$$ up a beauty of a day like today to be on the water, was it your last day off today? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: October-06-2006 at 11:03pm
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Thanks eric, No I had to work today, Looking forward to this weekend. looks like it's going to be nice. I'm going to try to get it out again, take the kids for a ride.
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-08-2006 at 10:37am
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hey randy, got up today and looked out and i am rating this the most beautiful day of the year it really is , I hope you get out there today, im moving couches and dining room sets for the better part of the day..... day off yeah right ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: October-08-2006 at 9:37pm
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Eric- Yep, I took it up to lake Milton today. took Joey and Justin, my twin boys, and a friend with me. It was real nice out, beautiful day! The boat ran great! This was probably the last nice day around here. too bad you had to work, thats a bummer. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |