GT40 takes longer to start when warm
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48524
Printed Date: November-21-2024 at 10:28pm
Topic: GT40 takes longer to start when warm
Posted By: C_Heath
Subject: GT40 takes longer to start when warm
Date Posted: April-09-2020 at 11:23am
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ITS FIXED! Scroll to the end of the pages. Thanks guys! New Items in March 2020 HP fuel pump Fuel filter Air Filter Plugs Wires Rotor cap and button looked brand new so I didnt change it impeller oil coil oil filter water strainer transmission fluid Anti-syphon Valve ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Replies:
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-09-2020 at 11:48am
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Mine does exactly the same thing. If you drop a skier, turn off for 5-15 minutes, it fires right back up. Let it sit for 25 minutes to an hour and it has to crank for a bit, not 5-10 seconds, I'd say more like 3-5 seconds. It's done it for all the time I've owned it, and since it runs perfectly otherwise I haven't tried to fix it. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-09-2020 at 11:53am
Since you have changed all that it might be worth your time to work on the LP pump as well first. Might want to get your hands on a fuel pressure gauge as well. Just curious you have changed the rotor,cap and button. Whats a button?       ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-09-2020 at 12:29pm
Sounds like one or more leaky injectors or a leaky fuel pressure regulator putting some extra fuel into the engine while it's off. Probably fires right up when the engine is cold and if you're using the boat and you turn it off for a short time it fires right back up cause it hasn't leaked enough in to flood the engine yet. Let it sit for a longer time like 63 skier said and it's getting flooded and that gives the long crank time. The amount of leakage affects the times obviously 
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C_Heath wrote:Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: April-09-2020 at 12:37pm
I’ll agree with Keno. But do Check timing first. Seems like this becomes a common issue on GT40’s ------------- Please support The Cystic Fibrosis Foundation 1976 Ski Nautique 351 Escort 1993 Ski Nautique purple and black 351 HO PCM |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-09-2020 at 12:42pm
lol, my dad always called it Rotor cap and Rotor button. I bought them but didnt change them out because the current cap and button looked new. ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-09-2020 at 1:37pm
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I knew what you meant just kidding you. Never heard the term until Planet Nautique maybe it's a regional thing? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-09-2020 at 2:04pm
Could be. Thanks for taking the time to list all those pages. Ill for sure give it a shot as well. ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-09-2020 at 2:14pm
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Gary, is that the pre fuel canister fuel pump? ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-09-2020 at 2:47pm
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Yes Dave same pump on all of them,it either supplies the HP pump direct on a '95 or supplies the FCC on the others . Found that just surfing one time . Wonder how many have been replaced that could have been saved ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-09-2020 at 3:10pm
You know I thought about replacing the injectors because of their age. From the little research I did, they weren't that expensive. I could be wrong tho. ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: April-09-2020 at 3:13pm
| A simple fuel pressure gauge will tell you if they're leaking. |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-09-2020 at 3:16pm
just looked at the injector prices again. I retract that last statement about them lol. thanks, ill look into a manual gauge to check it ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-09-2020 at 6:26pm
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I guess my thought behind ignoring mine is, I don't believe the fuel drip is causing damage. The added pull on the battery plus heating up the starter to do some extra cranking is not a concern for me, does it reduce starter life, maybe, but my feeling is a starter with proper amperage flow to it from a good, fully charged battery isn't experiencing reduced life due to some cranking. And I'd say 90% of my restarts are hot starts, in that reduced down time period, only 10% after sitting for a half hour where I have to crank extra. So maybe a few times a week for 4-5 months? Then again, 10 seconds of cranking is quite a long time, if it really is that long I'd probably be looking into it more. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-09-2020 at 9:01pm
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I’d say my longest crank was 5 seconds. It’s just a pain in my behind. I spent a load on it on maintenance in March so I want it to be right. Not to mention everyone in the boat looking at me with big eyes while it’s spinning over. I hate that. I’ve got a fuel pressure checker on the way. I may go ahead and put a new LP fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator on it anyhow. If the pressure is ok and all that’s been done the only thing left will be the injectors leaking. ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-09-2020 at 9:03pm
Gary, Wonder if a regulator from auto zone would be the same thing? It’s $40 vs nautique parts $215. ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-09-2020 at 9:19pm
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Yea they are but I don't have the Ford part number on me maybe Ken can find it. Some times you can find oem ones on ebay reasonably ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-09-2020 at 9:59pm
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I know what you mean by people looking at you when it's cranking, but most of the time I have people in the boat that know it well and aren't surprised. With newbie's I've definitely had a couple of "uh oh's" before it fires up. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: April-09-2020 at 11:32pm
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Yes the auto regulator is the same off the top of my head. I believe this is it Alternate/OEM Part Number(s): CM4643, CM4664, F2LE9C968EA, F4CE9C968AA, F4CZ9C968A https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=382279&cc=1106064&jsn=605&_nck=ZExt1ysfqhqWnq%2BEvUNdS3Txyey60IDtnjPWF5UU9J0BWQv7pvqZbkEUk86%2BAYIh3BPX4eQfsOii%2B3W9wETc7vH6sYSQ61E%2BEo5v1aDvJ0g0u2LZZIP75Qs2l6Yzcd2bt4naVWOOLJkoQeC32%2B%2B8ZWkYrgIbFUwwXN%2Ft3x%2FK69eHsFOoS%2FpnkPGCA8aQlc1iNmC1tIKZvKv261IVgfHujL8pTOcNdJDPLw1b10b3F2WujJrg4repCllBQpKUHK%2B%2B%2FE02jBn3L9hg4H4ZFXszFgBL6jolYbBaT7czNndBPMKcFEJgD6OK5oEMdluC6pYxszFzPJF%2B4IBXm9470%2F41aXS70ohudflU" rel="nofollow - https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=382279&cc=1106064&jsn=605&_nck=ZExt1ysfqhqWnq%2BEvUNdS3Txyey60IDtnjPWF5UU9J0BWQv7pvqZbkEUk86%2BAYIh3BPX4eQfsOii%2B3W9wETc7vH6sYSQ61E%2BEo5v1aDvJ0g0u2LZZIP75Qs2l6Yzcd2bt4naVWOOLJkoQeC32%2B%2B8ZWkYrgIbFUwwXN%2Ft3x%2FK69eHsFOoS%2FpnkPGCA8aQlc1iNmC1tIKZvKv261IVgfHujL8pTOcNdJDPLw1b10b3F2WujJrg4repCllBQpKUHK%2B%2B%2FE02jBn3L9hg4H4ZFXszFgBL6jolYbBaT7czNndBPMKcFEJgD6OK5oEMdluC6pYxszFzPJF%2B4IBXm9470%2F41aXS70ohudflU And just incase Pete wants to pick one up https://www.autozone.com/fuel-delivery/fuel-pressure-regulator/gp-sorensen-fuel-pressure-regulator-800-127/79674_594834_0?fromString=search&make=Ford&model=&year=" rel="nofollow - https://www.autozone.com/fuel-delivery/fuel-pressure-regulator/gp-sorensen-fuel-pressure-regulator-800-127/79674_594834_0?fromString=search&make=Ford&model=&year= With the pressure gauge you need to check to see if it holds pressure for the appropriate amount of time after shutting down hot |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-10-2020 at 12:40am
Awesome thanks so much. I’ll pick one up. Sometimes I think nautiqueparts is crazy high because it’s a nautique and we have our cart full anyhow so we may as well pick all of it up. I support them. Thousands this year but if I can get a cross reference and it’s the same part I am going to do it. Thanks again! ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: April-10-2020 at 1:51pm
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Pick one of these up while you’re there. https://www.autozone.com/test-scan-and-specialty-tools/fuel-pressure-tester/innova-fuel-injection-pressure-tester/273356_0_0" rel="nofollow - https://www.autozone.com/test-scan-and-specialty-tools/fuel-pressure-tester/innova-fuel-injection-pressure-tester/273356_0_0 |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-13-2020 at 3:32am
Got it today thanks!!! I’ll figure this baby out. Lol ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-13-2020 at 8:46am
Section 3H1 of the gt40 manual in the link is a good starting point for fuel pressure testing file:///C:/Users/Dad/Documents/PCM%20GT-40_Service_Manual.pdf" rel="nofollow - link |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: April-13-2020 at 3:58pm
Is there a reason all these were changed, or was this all done because of the long crank when hot issue? |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-13-2020 at 10:31pm
I just bought the boat in feb of this year. I wanted to do these items just so I knew that they had been done. I plan on keeping it for a while. It has 605 hours on it and yes maybe some of the items I replaced didn’t need it but I’d rather spend the money on it knowing that it’s Been done. The previous owner is awesome. Still works with my questions when I need him. He did tell me about the long starts when warm. Said it drove him nuts but it never left him stranded so he just let it roll. Well, it bugs me and I’ll find it. I still would like to do a LP fuel pump $80 and a fuel pressure regulator also $80 and maybe a TFI module. As soon as it warms up I’ll do a fuel pressure test and leak down to see where I stand. ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: April-13-2020 at 10:37pm
Gotcha  If you don't want those old used parts cluttering up the garage, I certainly know of a place where you could send them. 
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Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-13-2020 at 10:43pm
Ouch. I trashed most of it.  at least the strainer was bent all to crap, the old HP fuel pump I trashed but I kept the old wires and trashed the impeller. ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: April-13-2020 at 10:48pm
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Posted By: lewy2001
Date Posted: April-13-2020 at 10:58pm
Fuel pressure is the best place to start after you have confirmed spark. One quick simple check is can you hear the fuel pumps prime when you turn the key to on position before you crank the engine. Adding a fuel pressure gauge to GT40 tool kit is the best $45 you will spend  ------------- If you're going through hell, keep going http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2999" rel="nofollow - 89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-14-2020 at 12:50am
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Paul, what did you want out of that used parts list? Certainly not old plugs and wires? HP pump and coil, maybe? ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-14-2020 at 1:07am
Got one Friday. ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-14-2020 at 11:17am
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He's got a Chevy he uses all that stuff on. Used oil,filters and plugs are good enough for it. I do shake my head when I hear people changing plug wires just to change them. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-14-2020 at 10:12pm
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Ok fellas. Here’s the fuel pressure test results. Key on engine off: I charged the pumps and they started at 26. Five min later, 22. I didn’t wait any longer. Key in engine running 32. 2000 rpm’s 31. Cut it off and it stayed 32. After 5 minutes she dropped to 28. After 5 more minutes 25 The high pressure fuel pump is brand new as well as the fuel filter in the FCC. Additionally, after i let it set for 20 minutes with the key on engine off, It wouldn’t start afterwards. I had to go wide open throttle and it fired. I guess it was flooded. So thoughts? My reason for the test in the first place was long starts when the motor is warm. It has never failed to start on the water but a 5 second start was common every time after I cut the boat off. I have not replaced the low pressure pump or the fuel pressure regulator or the injectors but those are coming. Boat is 20 years old. 604 hours. Thanks for any input in advance. ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: lewy2001
Date Posted: April-14-2020 at 10:49pm
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Those pressure numbers are low 38psi + or - 3 is the spec. Remove vacuum hose from fuel pressure regulator and check for any signs of fuel and recheck pressure readings. I would also check the flow from your low pressure pump. This pump has a much higher failure rate than the HP pump. You can disassemble this pump and check for blocked filter screens before replacing as I think Gary mentioned earlier in the thread. ------------- If you're going through hell, keep going http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2999" rel="nofollow - 89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-14-2020 at 11:16pm
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I was going over page 41 of the GT40 manual and it said 31 + or - 3 was the standard. Shouldn’t the pressure be holding anyhow? Regardless of the standard I’m not sure if pressures supposed to drop after killing then engine or not ? ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: April-14-2020 at 11:25pm
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Follow this link to the reference section and read starting on page 2B-2 it will explain how the fuel pumps and injectors work. Then you can test it properly and report back. Should be 39 +/- 3 when you first turn the key to on, LP should run for approx 2 seconds to prime HP canister. It should hold the 39 psi thru cranking. At idle (not 2000rpm) it should drop to 31 +/- 3 Page 3H-2 is the trouble shooting for the leak down test You will need to jump the fuel pumps for this test but rule of thumb is rail should hold pressure within 3psi for 3 minutes. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/Downloads/Pro_BOss_GT-40_Service_Manual.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/Downloads/Pro_BOss_GT-40_Service_Manual.pdf PS; 20 years and 604 hours is a spring chicken on this forum. 
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Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-14-2020 at 11:44pm
Ok I read it. It said if low goto 3H-12 and there wasn’t one lol. Regardless, I ordered a regulator last night and in the morning, I may go Ahead and get the LP pump and maybe even injectors with adapters. That will be about the entire fuel system lol but I don’t wanna be towed so. ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: April-14-2020 at 11:50pm
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Before I went through all the work of changing injectors I would make sure that’s the problem. And the 3H-12 is there its all the way at the end of the manual. Keep scrolling |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-15-2020 at 12:03am
Ok lol ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-15-2020 at 12:29am
I found 3H12!!!! Haaaa! The more I read the more I think it’s the LP PUMP. I’m going to re test it tomorrow. For some reason I think that low reading at the beginning with key on motor off was wrong. ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-15-2020 at 8:55am
| Might be a silly question on my part but if the boat runs great all day, only acts up when it's been off for a while why do you think the LP fuel pump is causing this? |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-15-2020 at 11:19am
one of the pinpoint tests referred to (replace LP pump) I think twice, I also think one or some of the injectors are leaking after shut down. Im a newbie tho. ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-15-2020 at 12:01pm
That wasn't just for you, but for anybody who's been suggesting the pump Now things that you know from the manual are that it should have 39+ or- 3 psi KOEO 31 + or- 3 psi at idle When testing, the pressure drop should be no more than 3 psi in 3 minutes. Due to the regulator it will run somewhere between the nominal 31 and 39 mentioned above while running around on the lake depending on engine load. The load affects vacuum, which is sensed by the regulator. This lets it maintain the proper pressure to maintain the same differential pressure across the injectors. At full throttle there's basically no vacuum in the engine and your pressure would be around 39 psi Why not hook up the gauge and take the boat for a ride making a note of how it starts cold and what the pressure was at KOEO and then again when idling. Then drive it a while, park for your normal amount of time and watch the gauge to see what it is just before you're turning the key again and when starting That's just for some real world numbers and info to go along with the manual test sections. |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: April-15-2020 at 12:03pm
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I agree with Keno If it runs fine at WOT it’s getting enough fuel. I think your problem is either the regulator, timing, or a leaking injector. But first we need some accurate fuel pressure numbers. |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-15-2020 at 12:16pm
Surely will do. Thanks.
Thanks gun, ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-15-2020 at 7:29pm
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Went ahead and replaced the new cap and button on the distributor. I had a brand new one so what the hey. I also re-tested the fuel pressure. Here’s those..... Key on engine off 38. After 4 minutes it fell to 34 and after 12 min was still 32 Engine running at idle. 31. Stayed there the whole time. Next is the timing light and fuel pressure regulator. I’m chipping at it one at a time. You guys are gonna have to lend me a hand on the timing deal. Never done it. I did find the sprout just now and I think I know how to get it to TDC. but as far as actually running the light. No clue lol. My harmonic balancer does have a timing Mark on it but it’s pretty Rusty. Lol Thanks as always to the guys that has help. Gary, Keno, gun, jhersey and many more. ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: cboland
Date Posted: April-15-2020 at 7:56pm
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Based on my experience, I’ll chime in on KENO’s question above regarding why a LP pump would cause an issue only after warm and sitting for a while. Last fall I fought an issue whereby the boat would startup perfectly fine cold every time. After a good long run and then shutting down and sitting for a while, the boat would actually start up but then die about 1 minute later and I could not get it to start back up until sitting for maybe an hour longer. With key on, engine off I could hear both pumps prime, so initially didn’t think there was anything wrong with either. Long story short, after fiddling around and hooking up a fuel pressure gauge, I found that when he boat wouldn’t start I was getting zero fuel pressure and when I pulled off the output hose from the LP pump, nothing was coming out. I guess once it had a chance to cool off by sitting it would start working again. I replaced the LP pump and have had no issues since. So, while this isn’t exactly the same scenario the OP is having, the moral of the story is these LP pumps are strange birds. You might hear one power up, but that doesn’t mean it’s pumping fuel. ------------- Bud 1999 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-15-2020 at 8:30pm
I think that with those numbers, you don't have any injector leakage or fuel pressure regulator leakage issues that are causing your problem. I think your issue and CBoland's are different but that's just me thinking. and like he said they can act strange.You seem to have pressure and no running issues once it's started when warm, while his died completely and had to cool off So after it sat for 12 minutes, was that after driving it around and duplicating your conditions of being at operating temperature and then you turned it off, did the check over the 12 minute period and restarted it. Did you have normal fuel pressure on the restart? The only way to get normal pressure is with both pumps running together Just out of curiosity what's your idle speed in neutral and also in gear? |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-15-2020 at 8:38pm
Maybe you should update that thread from last year, here'a a link to it Skip the part about pulling Pete around on a tube in a bikini though http://correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48097&KW=&title=gt40-fuel-delivery-issue" rel="nofollow - link |
Posted By: cboland
Date Posted: April-15-2020 at 8:44pm
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Ha. Thanks for the reminder. I’ll do it now. I’d still be interested in seeing what some of our photoshop folks can do with Pete in a bikini on a tube. ------------- Bud 1999 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-15-2020 at 9:00pm
Sounds like the challenge is on
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Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-15-2020 at 9:52pm
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Thanks a bunch. For $79 on a new LP it’s for sure worth it. I just finished another test to make sure my novice mechanic skills were good enough and fired it after swapping out the rotor and cap. It did........But I went ahead and checked the fuel pressure while I was at it. 38 KOEO and 31 running. After I shut it off it went to 35 and stayed there while I unhooked the water and cleaned up. After 15 min it was still 35. That makes me feel better about an injector leak tho anything is still possible. Thanks again guys. ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 4:45am
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You have great advice above. You don't have any leaking injectors or your fuel pressure would fall off quickly. Yours does not it holds just like it should and you are in good shape as far as pressure bleed. Leave your pressure gauge hooked up and verify you have full pressure when you try to start your engine hot after sitting. If it still does not start promptly and you have 38-39 PSI you can rule out fuel supply as your issue. You can also rule out flooding due to injector leaks. Did you clean your mesh screen which functions like a air cleaner/filter and fire suppressor. If this is dirty you may be running rich with a hot engine making for the hard warm start. On cold start when checking pressure I usually turn the key on 3 seconds, then off, then on again to see what pressure the pump is offering. Sometimes one turn of the key does not hit max pressure. Maybe your pressure relief valve is not working all the time and on your warm starts you are not getting the full 39 PSI. This was mentioned earlier in your thread but I am not sure it was actually checked. I just read your thread and it sounds to me like you have a good fuel system supply and great advice already. ------------- |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 9:01am
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Well at least the money you saved on injectors can be thrown at some other parts that might solve your issue or if nothing else you'll have a good spare parts collection. Maybe you missed it earlier, but what's your idle speed in Neutral and in gear? (there's a reason for asking) |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 9:38am
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Pretty bored here so will do some kibitizing Any possibility that the cold-start F/A ratio could be happening during hot start? If so, maybe a temp sensor, wire, or even controller could be at fault. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 9:49am
That goes right along with the idle speed question
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Posted By: Aengenend
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 10:29am
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Quick dirty fix for the LP pump issue: pull the lid, rotate the vanes and reassemble. Dit it with ours and fixed it for maybe another 10+ years? ------------- SN 93, Pro Boss HO, GT-40P, ACME 422 |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 11:01am
by memory 650-700 in gear ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 11:02am
just went ahead and ordered a new LP pump. Thanks ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 11:13am
Sounds normal If your ECT sensor. ACT sensor or MAP sensor are reading out of range, a default value gets fed to the computer and the idle is set at 800 rpm by the computer. I think like SNObsessed said, I'd be looking at sensors and the wiring to them and throwing money at sensors next. A sensor can be reading bad and not be out of range. The only way to convince yourself that it is or isn't the LP fuel pump will be to change it |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 11:18am
Ive got the TFI sensor in my cart lol Any others I may need to look at? ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 11:22am
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Here's an old thread with "similar" issues. Good reading but AndrewB obviously didn't know how or didn't want to share his fix He replaced more parts than you, so I wouldn't feel bad about replacing stuff Without the right diagnosis tools, you don't have much choice but to go on suggestions and what you think. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31177&title=gt40" rel="nofollow - link |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 11:22am
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It does not bother me one I-ota to throw money at parts that I know can fail to help my peace of mind. I've towed and been towed and neither were fun. This boat is heavier than my last 2 boats combined. I cant imagine having to float it on the trailer while wading in 4 feet of water with a dead engine while the dock is full of people fighting over 2 ramps ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 11:28am
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I think you mean the TFI module, but there are the ECT, ACT and MAP sensors to consider.(plus a few more) Spare parts on hand is always a good thing And change one thing at a time then test but I figure you know that.
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Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 11:39am
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ECT is engine coolant temp MAP is absolute pressure whats Act? ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 11:43am
Air Charge Temperature (incoming air temperature) See section 2 of the manual for a good description of the control system |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 11:52am
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By the way, you'll find things in the manual that don't pertain to your engine since it's more accurate for the OMC/Volvo versions of these engines and it would seem that PCM just rubber stamped it without a good proofreading It ain't the best but it's all we got
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Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 11:52am
Im googling! lol ill check it out  ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 12:23pm
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Another thing you can do while you’re waiting on parts is... in the manual is a section called “Theory of Operation” it explains what all these sensors do and and how the fuel system works to make the GT40 run. Helps with trouble shooting when you understand how it all ties together. It starts on 2A-17 |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 12:38pm
Chris, I'm with you on that. There are times when I'll spend $100 because when I put my head on the pillow at night I know that part isn't likely to be the next problem. And you are doing a good job of testing and trying to figure out the problem, a few more sensors may solve it. Plus, I'm hoping you spend all the money, pinpoint the problem, then I'll just take your fix and do it on mine! ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 12:40pm
dang right i need that thanks! ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 12:41pm
ill be the guinea pig i dont care lol ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: cboland
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 12:43pm
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I don't believe these sensors are marine specific (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) and while I like to support Nautique Parts and SkiDIM, sometimes their engine components are absurdly overpriced (i.e. low pressure pump). It would be great if somebody has NAPA or similar part #'s for any of these things if they posted. Could save us all a few bucks if we don't have to buy the PCM offering. ------------- Bud 1999 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 1:05pm
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You are correct they all have Ford part numbers. PCM just repackages them. I have most if not all numbers at home,unfortunately with all going on it might be awhile before I get there. I'll have to make up a list and post. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 1:14pm
you still on that 100x40 lot and burning up? lol ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 1:19pm
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But then again you can't really support SkiDIM and Nautique Parts if you only buy more obscure or inboard specific parts there, then buy anything that can be found cheaper elsewhere. They can't be expected to sell at the same price as a national parts supplier. Kind of like buying everything on Amazon and then wondering why your local store closed. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: cboland
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 1:40pm
I don't disagree and don't have a problem paying a fair markup at the "local" retailer to support them. I feel good in knowing I have purchased plenty through those channels. But there is a point at which that's no longer reasonable. Take the low pressure pump I mentioned. That is sold for $215 at the "local guys." I purchased the exact same pump for $69 elsewhere (and they are still marking it up). That represents an increase of 212%. That is past the point at which I'm willing to be generous with my business. In fact, it feels more like they're trying to stick it to me which I don't appreciate. But this is what makes our country and capitalism great. If the small guys can get people to pay that then more power to them! ------------- Bud 1999 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 1:45pm
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Yes I am and I'm sitting inside just like if I was back north. It just hit 90 out and it's 35 at the other end I hear you Dave but it is tough paying 212 for a pump that's around 50 - 70. I have never bought anything from White Lake. You call them no one answers leave a message. After Zach left N3 I have had that happen there too. Not a fan of that. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 2:37pm
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I agree on the service point, obviously if you are not receiving good service then they don't deserve your business. And I grant you on the LP pump, that is just too much of a difference. I guess I'm just sensitive to this from hearing too many friends rail about the price difference of this or that at a smaller shop, then when they need some special fastener they want the same shop to spend a half hour figuring out the right $17 part and special order it. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 2:44pm
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As for parts changing/troubleshooting, more than once I had a shop change a bunch of parts on my dime, they said that they were all 'weak'. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 2:59pm
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I hear you Dave. That's why were are in trouble today. The money we saved by having stuff outsourced is now gone how many times over. Hope this is a wake up moment ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 3:08pm
true but im not paying $215 for a LP pump when its $70 elsewhere. Ill pay a fair markup and thats far from fair. Ive probably spent $2500 this year at NP. Some things I have to just pass on though. ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-16-2020 at 4:21pm
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Spark plugs are a good example of getting it stuck up your behind Click on the link below for some reading http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42687&title=new-plugs-and-wires" rel="nofollow - link In this case it's PCM doing the gouging, just like most other OEM's of things like tractors, cars, ATV's, snowmobiles ..............and on and on. The dealer could easily sell you the same plug without the packaging for a lot less If you want genuine OEM supplied parts in genuine OEM packaging, which is all that some people will buy, you're gonna pay for that. |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-22-2020 at 11:57pm
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Still on it! I replaced the LP pump today with a new one and the fuel pressure regulator. Timing check coming next. The LP pump had a little trash in it but not much. It was 7 years old so I replaced it anyhow. That’s most of the fuel system besides fuel rail and injectors lol. I’ll report back after I put a timing light on it. Thanks guys. ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: April-23-2020 at 12:02am
| Don’t forget there’s a certain way to check and set the timing. |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: April-23-2020 at 1:42am
I’ve got the checking down I think. I’m not doing any setting till I report back lol ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: May-04-2020 at 12:40am
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Update: I did the LP fuel pump and pressure regulator. Still a long hot start. Say 5 seconds. Timing is next. Just and update for others with same issue. I’ll report back after checking base timing. ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: May-11-2020 at 2:52pm
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Update on the updates! Ordered 2 relays today, FUEL and EEC. It has practically turned winter here so no lake test until this weekend if Im lucky. Ill report back. The New LP pump and regulator didnt change things, still long start when warm, Im getting closer to this gremlin lol. Thanks guys! ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: May-11-2020 at 3:42pm
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Well at least now I know where to go for used GT40 parts. Those relays can be cheaply purchased at the local parts store. |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: May-11-2020 at 4:36pm
------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-11-2020 at 7:35pm
You can walk into your favorite parts store and ask for a blower motor relay for a 1990 Cadillac Fleetwood, Brougham or an Eldorado too, for example and get the right relays for your gt40
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Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: May-15-2020 at 9:16pm
UPDATE ON THE UPDATES. Man I am super frustrated guys. Just got back. Spent about 5 hours out on the lake. Beautiful day. 82 water 69.8. Boat ran great all day for the most part. The new parts since the last time where 2 new relays at the rear of the boat beside the ECM (gt40 mind you) and new belts. As expected it fired right up on the trailer. Ran good. Went for a long ride for about 30 min. Ran 160 on the nose the whole time with good oil pressure. I shut it off and we floated for 20-30 min and when I went to fire it it took about 5-8 seconds to finally hit. When it fired it was good. No fiddling with the throttle or anything. So, in my mind it’s back to the drawing board on the long starts. Well as the day went on the starts got a little longer. A couple times after it would finally fire after 8-10 sec sometimes it would go dead. I would try it again, long start, fire and be ok. Well 5 hours into the day I was near the boat ramp. I pulled my kids on the tube and we stopped to pull them in the boat. We were kinda done anyhow. The boat sit there for 10 min maybe off. Got the kids in, tube in and tied it off, crawl back in the seat and hit the start button. It took about the same time, 10 sec or so but this time it seemed like it was searching for a catch. Then it finally fired and Immediately went dead. So I hit it again 8-10 sec, it fired, went dead. This time I was angry, tired, hot and burned so I hit neutral and fired it up. When it fired I went about half throttle up to about 3000 rpms and it went dead. By this time I’m pissed and looking to see how far I am from the launch. Might I add a little nervous as it was windy and nothing to land on but a rock wall near the bank. It finally fired and I swiftly put it in gear and pointed it to the ramp 100 yards away. As I was idling it went dead. I got it fired and it made it to the ramp dock where I left it running on purpose while I ran to get the truck. I got it loaded without incident I am one frustrated MF. I will list what has been done so anyone new here can see. The regular guys know but I’ll go out of my way because I’m so frustrated. March 2020 (everything listed is new) Plugs Wires Distributor cap Rotor Coil Low pressure fuel pump High pressure fuel pump Fuel pressure regulator Fuel pressure is 39 key off ignition on 31 running. Holds good pressure for many minutes after shut down Impeller Anti-syphon valve Raw water strainer Fuel relay That other fricken relay beside it New belts Oil and filter Tranny fluid Re-packed the shaft Guys wtf else can I replace lol? I’ve mentioned checking the base timing. I know how but amazon lost my timing light and it will be here thurs. I will see if it’s 5* BTDC and let you guys know what it is. What about the strainer in the gas tank? Filled it up when I left and still had more than a qtr tank in it when it started acting up. I’m lost. I will say thank you to the ones that went out of their ways to help me. It does NOT go un noticed. Thanks again. Chris. ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-15-2020 at 9:56pm
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Hey, it could have been worse............you made it to shore That list isn't complete yet How about the TFI-4 module and use a little thermal paste when installing the new one to the heat sink. Then there's the distributor itself. You have the PIP module buried in there and you have to take the distributor out and disassemble it to replace it. Most people end up replacing the distributor with an aftermarket automotive one, but use the sealed marine cap or put a glob of silicone in the vent on the automotive cap. A good number is Spectra FD-14 which can also be cross referenced to other brands and you have all fresh parts. And you don't have to throw much money at the distributor either. You pretty much proved that the fuel system is good already, unless something just changed. I think it's time to go for the ignition side of things and the TFI-4 module and the PIP can both be affected by heat. Do the TFI module first, it'a easier and a while back you mentioned having it in your "cart" so maybe you already have it. |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: May-15-2020 at 10:19pm
BUST OUT ANOTHER THOUSAND!!!! Hahahaha. Yes the TFI is in my cart. I’ll pick it up. While I am at it I just got off the phone with my cousin who has a Dixie super skier with a 350. He said he was having the same issues as me and changed the exhaust risers and manifolds and it. Cleared right up. I guess there always that after the TFI LOL. Thanks a million I’ll pick up a TFI. I’d the MAP sensor affected by heat? It’s right beside it! Lol. ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-15-2020 at 10:26pm
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I bet maybe the cuz's Dixie Skier has one of those low tech carbureted engines without all these newfangled electronics to screw with your mind.. It's internal heat buildup in the TFI module that affects it |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: May-15-2020 at 11:01pm
It’s on the Frickin UPS truck now. I’ll slap it on and report back with timing specs also. Won’t be able to water test for 2 weeks as we are going to the beach thurs. thanks again! ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: May-17-2020 at 8:17am
Well we are up bright and early this morning. Gonna go against the grain and take a quick trip out to the local resovoir. 1500 acres. It’s just me and the wife and all we plan to do is float so I don’t think heat will be a factor beings that I didn’t start having trouble until late in the day Friday plus I ran’er pretty hard with a full boat (8) then also. Lots of tubing and wakeboarding. I’m pretty much gonna unload and find the nearest cove and drop anchor. My wife is an RN and has been working from home for the last 2 months and laid the law down that she wasn’t setting at home all day today. Pray for know tow ins! Y’all be safe today!!! ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: May-17-2020 at 8:21am
Oh ps I fired it up on the hose last night and ran an OBD1 test and didn’t have any codes present. It fired up quickly like all the cold starts so I think it will be ok as long as I don’t get it hot. So KENO, can I pick up that FD-14 distributor and use my brand new cap and be good even tho it’s aftermarket? You said many people were doing that. Thanks again for all the knowledge. I saw posts last night back to 08 and you were helping people with their issues. Thanks a million. ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-17-2020 at 9:17am
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The Spectra FD-14 has been used by a number of people, it has the correct cast iron gear on it. Some other brands have a steel gear, but you want cast iron just like what's on your distributor now. Unlike the earlier marine distributors that had spark arrestor screens the gt40 used the same distributor as the automotive version (same Ford part number) and the only difference was the vent hole in the cap being filled with RTV. Gary S or Gun Driver could back this up also since one or both had either researched it or done it along with others too. But...............TFI module first and don't forget the thermal paste. And just so you don't feel bad about your parts list check the link below, he had a long list and the last things he did to solve his problem were the TFI module and the distributor. His issue was a little different but, hey it's electronic stuff we're talking about here, and of course no guarantees but you'll have new or maybe more spare parts for Gun Driver http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48245&title=gt-40-hesitation" rel="nofollow - link |
Posted By: C_Heath
Date Posted: May-18-2020 at 12:38am
Dang I read it all! He’s changed more than me lol. At least he coulda thanked you being his next post was a success post immediately after you told him what to check. Sheesh. I have the THERMAL PASTE and TFI on the way! That distributor is in my cart just in case. It’s $59 what a deal. Lol. As I said we went today but literally rode 15 min to a deep cove, floated for 4 hours and rode 15 min back to the ramp. No issues other than the long start. Ran good. Beach THURS-MON then back at the lake next weekend. I’ll report back. Thanks as always! ------------- 1979 Calipso Runabout (the boat that got it all started) 1988 Mastercraft ProStar 190 (sold) 2000 Pro Air Nautique/GT40 |