Holley EFI systems
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48830
Printed Date: November-26-2024 at 7:45pm
Topic: Holley EFI systems
Posted By: FFImarine
Subject: Holley EFI systems
Date Posted: June-09-2020 at 11:50pm
| We are Now officially converting carbureted engine to Holley EFI systems. No more worrying about your carb ever again, just start your boat and it’ll self tune while your doing what you love. Price varies on your hp rating.. let’s start the carb vs EFI conversation |
Replies:
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-10-2020 at 12:27am
I think the BIG bag of popcorn might come in handy for this conversation   |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: June-10-2020 at 10:39am
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Seems the tech has finally caught up to do this well, the holley stuff really has matured it appears. Some people have just exhausted their patience with carbagation I'm sure it will suit a non-trivial segment of boaters and if it gives old boats new life and more good stewardship, i can't be anything else but for this. Not for my situation but like many here with the 'knack' can't say im typical. boater ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: DVskier
Date Posted: June-10-2020 at 11:08am
| RESTOR mod comes to mind. The hot rod guys are dropping some new crate engines in the old classics and getting big bucks at car auctions for them. Guys who have made a comfortable living, now retired and enjoy taking their new rides to the weekend cruise in’s. Very popular in the small southern towns and in my opinion gets a lot of spectators. Can’t be bad for business. |
Posted By: DVskier
Date Posted: June-10-2020 at 11:09am
| RESTO mod. |
Posted By: nubf14
Date Posted: June-10-2020 at 10:46pm
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Did the Holley Sniper EFI on my 1986 Martinique and very happy so far (15 hours). The only issue is the 160 degrees water temp for EFI engines. My boat has 140 stat so I am waiting on my new thermostat to come via USPS. Install was very easy and performance has been better than expected (maybe my old carb was in need of rebuild/replace). Also, able to run cheap gas now so saving about 0.50 cents per gallon. The kit was $1299.00 vs new carb at $735. BTW did I say awesome idle/full/idle performance. ------------- Darrell Sanderlin 1986 CC Martinique Lake Wylie, SC |
Posted By: FFImarine
Date Posted: June-10-2020 at 11:04pm
| Have you noticed any improvement in gas consumption? |
Posted By: nubf14
Date Posted: June-10-2020 at 11:19pm
Not a large difference at this point. 39-gallon tank so about 1/2 - 2/3 on hard day of wakeboarding and tubing. I know it is better just don't have a good way to measure. The big measurement so far is regular gas with ethanol vs non-eth. Today 1.79 vs 2.39 so 23 dollars per fill up and I use 2+ tanks a week. So let's say $50 per week over 16 weeks it will pay for itself this summer alone. Also, starts awesome and better throttle response and I have not had to get the screwdriver out yet  https://photos.app.goo.gl/XND1dinxLaW5dXFE7" rel="nofollow - https://photos.app.goo.gl/XND1dinxLaW5dXFE7 https://photos.app.goo.gl/9yFrad8TTYzB8Rsc7" rel="nofollow - https://photos.app.goo.gl/9yFrad8TTYzB8Rsc7 ------------- Darrell Sanderlin 1986 CC Martinique Lake Wylie, SC |
Posted By: FFImarine
Date Posted: June-10-2020 at 11:30pm
| All the one I have done to date every customer says the same thing, start like my brand new car, idles like a dream and throttle response is amazing |
Posted By: nubf14
Date Posted: June-10-2020 at 11:38pm
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The O2 sensor plate was the hardest part. I found one on ebay that was close so I drilled out the holes a little larger and it worked. Took a 3/8 drill to the holes and needed a treated rod for the rear bolts as there was not enough room for the extra inch of bolt. https://www.ebay.com/itm/OXYGEN-SENSOR-PLATE-VOLVO-PENTA-1993-older-OUT-DRIVE-V-6-V-8-CHEVY/322489476520" rel="nofollow - https://www.ebay.com/itm/OXYGEN-SENSOR-PLATE-VOLVO-PENTA-1993-older-OUT-DRIVE-V-6-V-8-CHEVY/322489476520 ------------- Darrell Sanderlin 1986 CC Martinique Lake Wylie, SC |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-11-2020 at 8:28am
| What does switching fuel induction have to do with octane and ethanol content? |
Posted By: nubf14
Date Posted: June-11-2020 at 10:21am
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Not really octane in my case (low HP) but ethanol. In my experience ethanol is not a friend of carburetors. My boat is run regularly so the issues for me are winter sit and possible water in the fuel. I did experience inconsistent idles on ethanol vs non-ethanol before I make the switch to TBI. Here is a recent article. https://ridermagazine.com/2020/03/26/carburetors-and-ethanol/" rel="nofollow - https://ridermagazine.com/2020/03/26/carburetors-and-ethanol/ https://www.onallcylinders.com/2014/10/29/ethanol-effect-understanding-ethanol-can-protect-classic-ride/" rel="nofollow - https://www.onallcylinders.com/2014/10/29/ethanol-effect-understanding-ethanol-can-protect-classic-ride/ ------------- Darrell Sanderlin 1986 CC Martinique Lake Wylie, SC |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-11-2020 at 10:35am
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Glad the efi is working for you but it sounds more like a fuel quality issue or a worn out carb was your problem. We haven’t been able to get e-free here in 15+ years and I don’t experience consistent fuel issues like you describe (in the boat or otherwise). If you haven’t already (and it’s not too late), you may want to look at the rest of your fuel system... have seen old lines and junk in the tank cause problems (sometimes it doesn’t appear until you run the tank low). |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: June-11-2020 at 10:44am
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In my experience the fram cartridge filter system seems to do more harm than good. Seems when that gets taken out of the system and replaced with something competent most anything can work well. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: nubf14
Date Posted: June-11-2020 at 10:48am
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Yes, I do believe the carb needed a replacement that was one of the reasons for making the switch. Another benefit was the entire fuel system (less tank) was replaced as well. Do you use a stabilizer in your fuel? ------------- Darrell Sanderlin 1986 CC Martinique Lake Wylie, SC |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-11-2020 at 10:50am
| Nope |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-11-2020 at 11:10am
Darrel, It's pretty obvious that you aren't a friend of carbs.
------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
nubf14 wrote:Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: June-11-2020 at 12:20pm
| I've had problems due to ethanol. Mostly when it started being available, but even recently when running boats that had not been used for along time. Real easy to determine by looking at the gas you pour out of the tank. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-11-2020 at 12:25pm
| That’s a fuel quality problem, not all e10 does that. |
Posted By: DVskier
Date Posted: June-11-2020 at 12:35pm
| I only use non ethanol fuel in my boats and small 2 cycle engines. No problems at all. Maybe it’s the higher humidity levels in the south? In any case folks down here have nothing but problems if they use e 10 in their boats. Life is too short to have to fool with fuel problems. By the way my Subaru and Acura run great on E 10. |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: June-11-2020 at 1:24pm
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I haven’t run E free in 5 years or more in my Ski Nautiques. Knock on wood I can’t complain. And I don’t rebuild/clean carbs. Now on my ‘06 Honda outboard, every 366th day you have to pull the triple carbs off and rebuild no matter what fuel I run through or additives. Maybe it’s just luck? ------------- Please support The Cystic Fibrosis Foundation 1976 Ski Nautique 351 Escort 1993 Ski Nautique purple and black 351 HO PCM |
Posted By: nubf14
Date Posted: June-11-2020 at 2:08pm
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I don't have a problem with carbs as I have a quadrajet in my 1972 C20 and it runs fine but I only run premium in that truck (more HP). But the whole TBI process as made me rethink my truck as well. Maybe a fuel issue I don't know. Here is what I do know: Before TBI - ran ok had rough idle (kept screwdriver handy) and hesitation on starts (5% of the time) and a long period of no-wake would be hell on the other side. After TBI - runs great (but it is new so time will tell). I have idled for very long periods now because it just runs better at idle (lots of future house shopping for my wife). About $500 difference in price between a new carb and TBI system. The replacement took about 8 hours (fuel lines 7 TBI 1) Not trying to bash carb was just providing feedback on the Holley EFI I installed in my boat. I would guess for 85% of boat owners TBI is better as there are not many wrench turners in the ski/wakeboard boat owners I know (maybe need to change my circle).[  https://photos.app.goo.gl/8QSd4JdGfAbxUaep9" rel="nofollow - 1972 C20 ------------- Darrell Sanderlin 1986 CC Martinique Lake Wylie, SC |
Posted By: DVskier
Date Posted: June-11-2020 at 2:52pm
| I previously had a Honda 50 hp on my pontoon boat, original engine on a 98 Harris. Replaced 2 years ago with. 115 hp Yamaha. What an amazing difference yet the mileage is virtually the same. Major difference is EFI. Still only goes 27 mph flat out because I don’t have tri tubes or lifting strokes but at 75% power it’s appreciably faster and more efficient. The 50 Honda had triple carbs although I never had them rebuilt. |
Posted By: FFImarine
Date Posted: June-13-2020 at 1:04am
| Putting modern tech like EFI into an old carbureted boat in my mind is kinda like a resto mod. We have gotten so use to the modern technology in or daily driven vehicles but when it comes to our boats or old cars all of use cling to what it’s suppose to be not what it could be, it’s like going to a new car dealer and asking for a new car with mechanical drum brakes all around, no a/c and crank windows, it doesn’t exist anymore an it shouldn’t have to in the marine world. I my self fully support the change to EFI cause it’s just better in every way possible |
Posted By: FFImarine
Date Posted: June-13-2020 at 1:08am
One more thing to add to my last post... if you still own a flip phone then EFI is prolly not for you lol 
|
Posted By: DayTony
Date Posted: June-23-2020 at 6:00pm
First i apologize for lack of punctuations and spelling. Im using my phone to post. They both have their pros and cons, the issues arrising from ethanol in carbs can easily be snubbed with some preventative measures like not leaving fuel sit for long. Draining bowls and tanks over winter etc. Additives is another one people swear by but i have yet to see any of them make a lick of difference in my experience. Which holley efi are you installing? They have many systems available. Im curious how you plan to deal with fuel delivery and running an O2. I think they use high pressure in the tbi units. The O2 seems to be the fail point on many of these kits installed into boats since none of the bolt on systems have the ability to run in open loop. In order to do that you need to invest in the more expensive controlers by someone like haltec or motech, where you would tune it using an O2 but then you can lock it and remove the O2 after mapping is done. Sounds like a fun project, i plan to eventually efi mine. I feel it would help lower my blood pressure a little when i let others drive ------------- 1988 Barefoot nautique-454 |
Posted By: nubf14
Date Posted: June-23-2020 at 10:59pm
|
I installed the Holley Sniper EFI. It can run open-loop which it does anytime the temp is below 160. The kit I purchased from Holley was the entire kit (pump, regulator, TBI, controller, filters, O2. and fuel hoses) I did have to purchase an O2 adaptor to run the O2 sensor for closed-loop (eBay). I also had to replace my 143 thermostat with a 160 for the EFI to work properly. My boat would get below 160 regularly if running below 3000 rpm and make the EFI go open-loop. I also purchased the Holley throttle body reducer linkage to reduce the rear butterflies until 40% of throttle. With my 351w it did not need all that fuel for starts. ------------- Darrell Sanderlin 1986 CC Martinique Lake Wylie, SC |
Posted By: DayTony
Date Posted: June-24-2020 at 12:39am
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Interesting, so does it allow you to run it off your map in open loop as a full time option? Because I spoke with edelbrock, holley, and fitech about their systems, and all 3 told me i could not set the map to run open loop all the time. They pretty much only run open loop during WOT. and everything between there and idle, is based off O2 feedback. Noone mentioned anything about engine temps though. How long have you been running the sniper? Overall happy with it? Prices are getting more and more reasonable now. ------------- 1988 Barefoot nautique-454 |
Posted By: nubf14
Date Posted: June-24-2020 at 12:48am
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I have about 25 hours on it now. I have 10 hours of open-loop (no O2 sensor). Very pleased so far but I just installed the new thermostat and do not have any lake hours on it yet. The 25 hours are 75% closed-loop (non-learning) as the old thermostat was 143 and it was hard to get above 160 for the system to enter learning mode BTW in open-loop, I did have to run higher idle (850 vs 700) as there is no AFR reading. ------------- Darrell Sanderlin 1986 CC Martinique Lake Wylie, SC |
Posted By: DW1
Date Posted: December-03-2020 at 12:23pm
| Darrell, have you accumulated more running time on your EFI conversion? More details on pro's / con's and performance impact? thx. |
Posted By: nubf14
Date Posted: December-03-2020 at 2:50pm
|
About 50 hours. I can honestly say I will never go back to anything else. I will also say that an ignition upgrade to a Marine (https://performancedistributors.com/product/marine-dui-distributors/) performance distributor had a large boost. Great performance but even better starts/stops etc. I can idle in the 500s now. My old distributor was showing its age so I replaced both at the same time. BTW it was very difficult to find a right rotation which my boat required (special order so special PRICE!!).. ------------- Darrell Sanderlin 1986 CC Martinique Lake Wylie, SC |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-04-2020 at 6:05am
|
Back in June you mentioned finding out from Holley whether the fuel pump in the kit (a Holley 12-920) met USCG regs. I imagine their answer was Yes, here's a link to a Holley page on that pump with those "magic words" included. I'm not sure the wording was there back in June, but it is now http://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_pumps_regulators_and_filters/fuel_pumps/efi_fuel_pumps/efi_electric_in-line_pumps/parts/12-920" rel="nofollow - link
Oh yea, one last thing.............good job, the naysayers seem to be kinda quiet right about now  |
Posted By: tleed
Date Posted: December-12-2020 at 1:16am
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My carbed Yamaha jet ski was problematic all the time until I had a 2-hour conversation with a boat mechanic. She told me it was my gas & that a can of SeaFoam & several hours (!!) of running would fix it up. It did. About that time I bought 10-year-old, 62k-mile Taurus. The elderly original owner must’ve kept the tank full. When I dropped the tank b/c it wouldn’t run, I discovered about 3/8” of solid varnish in the bottom of the tank. I figured it was the solidified precipitate from the alcohol gas. The boat mechanic informed me that carbs hate alcohol gas because that precipitate solidifies in and on the jets and needles & bowls & acts like chewing gum. It glues them in place. Hence the lousy running. If you use your boat regularly, you won’t see a problem, because you keep the gas moving. But seasonally-used engines with carbs, like mowers, snowblowers, and boats are a bad mix with alcohol gas because they allow time for the fuel to evaporate and leave behind the gummy deposits. The boat mechanic told me I wouldn’t believe how many boats she fixed with SeaFoam. Apparently it has just the right ingredients to dissolve the alcohol/varnish deposits. But it won’t work in everything. Fro instance, if the carb is so blocked up fuel can’t flow, SeaFoam can’t clear out the deposits. My jet ski took about 4 hours of continuous running before it cleared up, and it was cantankerous the whole time until it suddenly, “mysteriously” quit all the hesitating. I had beginning-of-season issues with every carbed piece of power equipment I have until I quit using alcohol gas in them. Fuel-injected motors don’t have problems with alcohol gas because the fuel flows under much higher pressure than carbed systems. And FI systems don’t have tiny little orifices that are opened and closed by tiny little parts that can be easily glued in place by a small amount of sticky varnish. Carbs & EFI both have their place. Lawn mowers would be a lot more expensive if they used circuit boards, computer brains, and high-pressure fuel pumps. But there’s a reason why today’s vehicles start & run so easily & get way better gas mileage while putting out a lot more horsepower. I don’t remember my ‘74 Vega very fondly, and I’d love to get EFI on the Chrysler 318 in my ‘74 Southwind. Thomas ------------- Thomas 1974 Southwind 18 with 318 cubic inches of reverse rotation roller cam "Moparvation" |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: December-12-2020 at 9:26am
|
Sea Foam and other additives always spark a lively discussion...everything from sworn statements regarding miraculous results to “a fool and his money are soon parted”. I have tried various additives over the years and have had good “anecdotal” results from Lucas Fuel Treatment and Klotz Octane Boost. I did try Sea Foam on an older Chevy Suburban once. It blew a lot of white smoke for 5 minutes following treatment, but it was difficult to determine what, if any, improvement there was. And, yes, I agree that ethanol fuels in certain applications is bad ju-ju. JQ
------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: DVskier
Date Posted: December-13-2020 at 1:07pm
| I use Sea Foam every year. No fuel problems! I know Pete will chime in about it being “snake oil”. A CC dealer told me to use it and it’s worked for me since 1997. YMMV |
Posted By: MechGaT
Date Posted: December-13-2020 at 6:57pm
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If you have never seen Project Farm on YouTube, he does some really good tests. He did one on https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=agAWXnT4-EQ" rel="nofollow - SeaFoam . ------------- '92 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: AlfaDon
Date Posted: January-07-2021 at 1:51am
Project Farm is great. Although it's kind of funny the way he delivers information
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Posted By: AlfaDon
Date Posted: January-07-2021 at 2:00am
Sorry I'm late to the party. What did you use for you low pressure pump? The mechanical lift pump? I'm going to be installing my Holley HP EFI this winter and will be using the Airtex electric marine low pressure pump. Maybe others can respond to this as well. How was the initial learning for the fuel map? Did you run a return line back to the tank? I'm going to be using the Fuel Control Cell and don't know if I can run my return to the FCC, instead of the tank.
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Posted By: DW1
Date Posted: February-19-2021 at 3:20pm
| Alfa Don - On a pickup truck application I did not have good luck with (2) Airtex pumps, switched to Delco and all good. May not relate to the low pressure marine pump but use as a data point. |