starter question
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49323
Printed Date: November-15-2024 at 5:08pm
Topic: starter question
Posted By: 75 Tique
Subject: starter question
Date Posted: October-09-2020 at 10:37pm
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Take a listen to my starter. Seems to work ok, just makes that funny extra sound. I say it works ok. As a rule, it does, but last night it struggled a bit to start and that noise persisted a little longer. Today (day of this recording) it was better. Any idea what is ailing it? If its a quick open and lube or whatever, I will take it on. Otherwise, I will try to track down a rebuild shop (my old guy that used to do it in his back yard shop retired....I guess he was about due, he was about a hundred.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdYwTPm39ZY&feature=youtu.be" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdYwTPm39ZY&feature=youtu.be ------------- _____________ “So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
Replies:
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: October-10-2020 at 1:10am
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That is a bad sound, I listened several times and can't identify the sound. Maybe bushings in the starter but I have to say I have heard bad starters before but not that sound. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-10-2020 at 5:21am
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Larry, I agree with Mark. I too can't identify what's going on but it doesn't sound good. I don't feel a lubrication will cure it. The starter needs to come off.
------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-10-2020 at 9:29am
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Sounds like a dry nose bushing to me,pull it and check. If you decide to take it to someone google prices first you can get a US made Arco 70200 very reasonable. DB is cheaper but they are Chinese. Should be real easy to get out these modern starters are way lighter than the old one on your Skier. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: October-10-2020 at 9:41am
I was going to say the same. Not sure what the difference is between the 70200 and 70125 (starter vs kit maybe?) but I know I couldn’t get a starter rebuilt for the $120 they’re selling for, at least not around here. |
Gary S wrote:Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: October-10-2020 at 10:04am
Thanks for the nudge in the right direction. I already started looking into Arcos. Hadnt dug out this handy dandy diagram I rely on yet to see which one I needed.
 That CCW CW notation they use always confuses me. Gary and Tim, your guidance helped. Tim, Where did you find $120. I didnt see anything quite that low, I think I found in the vicinity of 160-190, but at that point wasnt sure which one I needed. I concur that at those prices, new makes more sense than rebuild. Now getting it off. Heaven forbid all boats be like my Tique with the top mounted starter. I tried getting this one off a while back to inspect it and it didnt go smoothly. Full confession, Im not sure if this starter got wet or not. In a bad storm a while back, water got up to the floorboards. Would that have submerged the starter. Thats when I tried to take it off, inspect and dry out if needed, but I could never get it off. Could that have led to this current condition? It was a couple months ago and this noise just started a few weeks ago. ------------- _____________ “So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-10-2020 at 10:13am
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Yes it could have Larry. Couple of years ago I flooded my starter with saltwater and since we were going on the 3 day river run I just went out and bought the Arco. At the time I just googled and found one for something like 130. I'd bet you can lube it and save it for now though. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-10-2020 at 10:20am
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I think your right on the kit Tim - and all that is is an extra 14? gauge wire with ends on it. If I recall it's when you have the old Ford starter and convert over to these newer ones. Larry will already have that wire. I think that blower in your way Larry is giving you a harder time getting it out. Can you remove it easy? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: October-10-2020 at 10:27am
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Just from the google: https://marinepartssource.com/ford-302-351-starter-arco-70200?utm_source=google_shopping |
Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: October-10-2020 at 11:17am
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ordered. Here wed. ------------- _____________ “So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-10-2020 at 7:33pm
Larry, have I got a deal for you  Since you have a new starter coming, after you get it installed and all is good, how'd you like to ship me the old starter and I'll take it apart and lay all the pieces out next to a disassembled automotive PMGR Ford starter for comparison purposes with plenty of pictures so the difference in the auto vs marine versions of this starter can be seen. People might be surprised I'll even pay the shipping cost both ways and I'll do a Pete style "fluff and buff" on it.....not a rebuild. Unless there are bigger problems to resolve. Let me know what you think
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Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: October-11-2020 at 8:37pm
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Sure Ken, we can do that. I have to admit, for me, I pretty much jumped the gun on this one, ordering new, before taking old off and exploring/trouble shooting a little on my own, but I figured with that noise, it can be good, and as Gary and Tim suggested, price of new isnt much more than rebuild, even if I could find a local rebuild. So, I went for it. I should even have just the right box to send it off in after the other arrives later this week. ------------- _____________ “So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-12-2020 at 7:15am
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Sounds like a plan Larry I sent an e mail to your Yahoo account with my address. I would have had the same recommendation as Gary and Tim about a new Arco starter. After you have the new part, it's a lot easier to dig into the old, knowing your boating time won't be affected if the fix gets long. And besides if it's an easy fix, you'll have a spare starter............and spare parts are always handy. Somehow I think Gary would agree with that
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Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-23-2020 at 1:35pm
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Well, Larry's starter showed up, so I took it apart and since I like taking things apart, I also took apart a cheap Chinese starter for comparison purposes The Chinese starter was sold as an automotive starter, Larry's was the original equipment starter in his SN176 Now it's time to look at the pictures and find the one extra part in the Marine starter. It's kinda like playing "Where's Waldo" It should be pretty easy to spot that little Brownish Orange seal/plug. That's the only difference in the two starters as far as spark protection goes. It plugs a space at the bottom of the starter where fumes could get in and mix with a spark and make bad things happen. The upper plug is black on the Ford and white on this particular Chinese starter. There are some other differences like paint, Larry's has a black epoxy paint ( a pretty sloppy one) on the housing, the Chinese looks to be a pretty corrosion resistant non painted housing. Larry's has tinned wire from the brush holder to the solenoid, the Chinese has untinned copper I've had Arco starters apart, they have the same plug as the Ford, just a different color. I've also had marine starters from other outfits apart (both new and rebuilt) that either has nothing at all where that plug goes or an application of RTV in that space but they were sold as "marine starters" That little 10 cent or so piece of nylon sure adds a lot to the price of a "marine" starter 
   Larry's starter was full of rust, dirt and carbon dust all mixed together, not because he got it wet a little while ago, but from 20 plus years of use. Also there was not a hint of lubrication on the nose cone bushing or the cover bushing on the brush end or any of the planetary gears. 20 plus years wiped all that out Since I like to put things back together too, I fluffed and buffed Larry's starter, then put it back together with some grease in all the right places. And then, since I like to see if things work again, I did a bench test and it worked good with no load on the bench.. But since I like to see if it works on an engine too, I slapped it on the old plow truck and it worked like it should. It'll probably be Monday before I get it shipped out and on it's way back to you Larry. Now you have a good spare "just in case" And just a reminder, this post only pertains to Ford PMGR starters |