Need advice please Keno
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49679
Printed Date: September-27-2024 at 12:15pm
Topic: Need advice please Keno
Posted By: Tko87
Subject: Need advice please Keno
Date Posted: March-21-2021 at 6:41pm
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Just put a used Gen 4 454 in my fish nautique the engine had only 90 hours on it from brand new ,guy didn't use it much I'm running raw water When I start my boat 70-75 lbs of oil pressure even after it warms up it only drops down to 55 when I'm on step it goes back up to around 75 even once the oil is hot... Hooked up a manual gauge to confirm as well. Boat is running perfectly fine Is this anything to worry about? |
Replies:
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: March-21-2021 at 9:47pm
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What weight oil are you using? Maybe the relief valve on the oil pump is set a little higher than normal. After it's warmed up and been running at speed for 20 minutes or so and the oil is good and hot, does it drop off any? I think that if the boat is running perfectly fine as you said, I'd not worry about it. Some others should chime in on this, I would think.
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Posted By: Tko87
Date Posted: March-21-2021 at 9:57pm
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Straight 40 Drops to 55 at idle when hot but on step it gets 70-75 If this isn't too high I won't stress about it I definitely don't have any leaks or nothing like that |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: March-22-2021 at 2:03am
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Smokey Yanuck always said you need 10 PSI per 1000 RPM. Smokey is still considered a pretty good egg when it comes to engine advice. With that said, I like to build mine to have 40 PSI minimum at idle and 60 or so at speed. Just personal preference. Running 75 PSI in an engine that never see's RPM above 4500 is a little overkill but as Ken pointed out it is nothing to worry about. It will not hurt your engine at all. If it was my engine and I had 75 PSI with 40W I would install 30W. Pressure will drop a little, maybe to 65 PSI hot but again, you have plenty of Oil Pressure so your engine will run a very long time. Most likely your engine has very good/tight clearances inside and that will make it last a long time if you take care of it. I know of race engines running Pro Stock that run Zero Weight oil today. You are in good shape, run it and smile. I know guys in the old C2 Corvette club and they get all excited if they have more than 40 PSI running hot because the C2 Club will dock them points when the car is judged. Not because there is anything wrong with running a little higher pressure, only because they use a judging book that tells them what oil pressure to look for because that is what they had from the factory in 1966. Does not mean it is the best for today it just means it is good for judging. Hope this helps. Mark ------------- |
Posted By: Tko87
Date Posted: March-22-2021 at 7:01am
| Man, thanks for the details , feeling much better already . |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: March-22-2021 at 7:21am
I just knew MrMcD would come drop in from the west coast with some more good info for you  BTW I'm not sure if you have an earlier Mark4 or a later Gen5 or Gen6 because Chevy never called any of their 454s a Gen4
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Posted By: Tko87
Date Posted: March-22-2021 at 7:31am
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Gen 4 U guys are awesome |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: March-22-2021 at 7:36am
do you mean Mark4?
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Tko87 wrote:Posted By: Tko87
Date Posted: March-22-2021 at 7:38am
| Yes sorry Mark 4 |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: March-22-2021 at 8:08am
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I was only wondering because the later engines used thinner oil with some tighter engine clearances but your Mark4 with hydraulic flat tappet lifters/cam should be pretty happy with something like Rotella 15w40 Diesel oil with decent zinc(ZDDP) levels How much zinc is really needed is one of them things plenty of people have plenty of opinions about, but the Rotella mentioned above has plenty in most everybody's opinion
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Posted By: Tko87
Date Posted: March-22-2021 at 8:23am
| I've always taken your recommendations. What's your opinion on straight 30w |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: March-22-2021 at 9:21am
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I guess my opinion is that i don't have one on the 30 weight without knowing the brand, but I kinda like the Rotella mentioned previously.
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Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: March-22-2021 at 9:30am
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Amazing how modern engines have progressed- 10 years ago BMW F1 engines were turning 19k, oil pressures ranging around 10 pounds. The wife’s newish cars oil pressure I have never seen go over 20 lbs hot or cold. It uses 0-40 oil and the pumps output is controlled by the ECM. I have also heard in Ford Windsor applications that a standard oil pump is preferred. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: March-22-2021 at 10:14am
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I agree 100% on Rotella, Delo is also available, both are HD Diesel oils. They work well protecting the older flat tappet camshafts, I’ve run it for nearing 20 years now. I think I saw Rotella 10-30 at Walmart. The only negative I ever saw from high oil pressure was one guy in cold country blew his oil filter off on a cold morning start, temp was around zero, car sat out all night and he had a high volume high pressure pump installed. Those pumps used a big block pump body adapted to run in a small block Chevy. ------------- |
Posted By: Tko87
Date Posted: March-22-2021 at 10:32am
| Thank u for your input |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: March-22-2021 at 12:29pm
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Another factor not mentioned yet is that oi flow takes heat away from the bearings. So if 30W gets you the oil pressure you need, then that would flow more oil & theoretically carry away more heat., ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Tko87
Date Posted: March-22-2021 at 7:57pm
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Okay guys, couldn't wait to get home and conduct more experiments. I drained the oil and put 10w30 rotella with a manual gauge cranked it up and it was 75 lb I let it idle for about 20 minutes and it came down to 70 If I idle it up to about 1700 for about 5 seconds it will jump up to about 85 Then back down to 70 at idle a little more info, my oil sending unit is up right by the oil filter with the relocation housing. There is a 90° elbow coming out and the oil sending unit screws into that 90° elbow.... A friend of mine (lol) told me to move the oil sending unit down by the old oil filter housing. They're now is my oil temperature sender.. If it matters my oil when running it this weekend really didn't get over 150 degrees it was a cold day in louisiana, raw water pump , and 65° water as well It's possible that my temperature sender is not working correctly And this is your nightly update. Thank you very much |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: March-22-2021 at 8:11pm
Sounds like a newscast Keep em' coming I think in warmer conditions your pressure will come down some with warmer oil and harder running.
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Posted By: Tko87
Date Posted: March-22-2021 at 8:20pm
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Lol |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: March-22-2021 at 9:31pm
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I hate to even suggest it but oil pressure that high might indicate the relief valve in the oil pump is stuck. I expected more of a drop with lighter oil. You still won't hurt the engine bearings, they like lots of oil. Some of the excess from the connecting rods might end up on the cylinder walls but if it is not burning oil that indicates your oil rings are good and can handle it so don't worry. Maybe the previous owner installed a very strong spring on the oil pump by pass because he wanted high oil pressure. ------------- |
Posted By: Tko87
Date Posted: March-22-2021 at 9:45pm
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Does not burn oil and runs so very good . Going to take her on a longer test drive this weekend with warmer weather in the 80's Can a "stuck" relief valve free up? Also I assume moving the oil sending unit away from the 90 at the relocation kit filter down to the old oil filter housing would not accomplish anything. |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: March-22-2021 at 10:32pm
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I agree that the high pressure shouldn't cause problems. But, 85 psi is pretty unusual so like you, I wish I knew what was causing it. The other 99 times out of 100 the person posting about their 454 would be saying "I only have 15 psi at idle, 30 running hard, what should I do?" so your situation is a bit unusual. Having said that, I'd run it and enjoy it and see if it changes with warmer weather and hours of run time. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: March-23-2021 at 2:12am
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The by pass in your GM oil pump is a piston floating in a cylinder, oil pressure on one side and a spring on the other side in the cylinder. When the pressure is too high the piston will compress the spring and as it moves it opens a by pass channel which allows the excess oil pressure to dump so it keeps a steady oil pressure in the engine. I have been told that a good oil pump will be opening the bypass at any RPM over 500 in a tight engine because they produce more oil pressure than you need. To answer your question about can it fix itself, remote chance but not likely. If some particle is stuck in that cylinder and the piston is wedged against it odds are it will not fix itself. It is possible the previous owner liked high oil pressure and installed a high pressure spring in that pump. I would not sweat it. If someone comments about your very high oil pressure just tell them you like a tight engine, they last a long time! ------------- |
Posted By: Tko87
Date Posted: March-23-2021 at 6:45am
| Amen to that again thanks for the very detailed answers |
Posted By: Tko87
Date Posted: March-25-2021 at 12:22pm
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Is it okay if I relocate my oil pressure sending unit away from the oil filter itself that comes with the bypass kit and move it down to the bottom of the engine where the stock oil filter was. One of the reasons I'm asking it is a tight fit there where it's at. I'm sure if this will affect the readings or not |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: March-25-2021 at 12:31pm
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Oil pressure should remain exactly the same as long as you are tapped into the oil gallery. The ports just open an access into the gallery. ------------- |
Posted By: Tko87
Date Posted: March-25-2021 at 12:58pm
| 10 4 |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: March-25-2021 at 1:35pm
| Like mentioned I'd put it back in the stock location and expect no problems at all because of the move. |
Posted By: Tko87
Date Posted: March-25-2021 at 1:41pm
| You guys are too Notch !!! |
Posted By: Tko87
Date Posted: March-25-2021 at 8:08pm
| Thank you |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: March-26-2021 at 8:52am
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If you haven't solved the problem yet, you might want to check that the electrical connection to sensor is clean & tight. I had one that was loose & engine vibration would cause erratic readings. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Tko87
Date Posted: March-26-2021 at 9:20am
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I have already confirmed it with a manual gauge but this afternoon I'm going to move the sending unit away from the relocation kit which the sensor is jammed into a corner of the kit and move it down to where the factory oil filters screwed in at the bottom of the engine to the left of the oil pan and see what happens |
Posted By: Tko87
Date Posted: March-28-2021 at 2:00pm
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Yet another update, this one may be a little difficult to explain.. I removed the oil temperature sender that was mounted right above the factory oil filter housing.. I noticed no oil came out. I stuck my pinky in there and felt something spongy. Almost like the outside of a balloon. Anyway I kept that area off went from a single oil filter on top to a dual oil filter system put a new sending unit there as well as the temperature sender After doing this my oil pressure came down around 5 lb so 70 went cold and if I let it warm up for about 15 minutes it drops down to about 50 so I think I'm definitely okay Main thing I'm wondering is what was that spongy thing I was feeling and why did in any oil come out ? Definitely have good circulation in the valve covers engine runs perfect |
Posted By: Tko87
Date Posted: March-28-2021 at 5:21pm
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Yet another update, this one may be a little difficult to explain.. I removed the oil temperature sender that was mounted right above the factory oil filter housing.. I noticed no oil came out. I stuck my pinky in there and felt something spongy. Almost like the outside of a balloon. Anyway I kept that area off went from a single oil filter on top to a dual oil filter system put a new sending unit there as well as the temperature sender After doing this my oil pressure came down around 5 lb so 70 went cold and if I let it warm up for about 15 minutes it drops down to about 50 so I think I'm definitely okay Main thing I'm wondering is what was that spongy thing I was feeling and why did in any oil come out ? Definitely have good circulation in the valve covers engine runs perfect .another thing that I noticed my engine oil is not getting above 140° but this is hooked to a water hose. |
Posted By: Tko87
Date Posted: March-29-2021 at 8:12pm
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Well there ended up being some sort of scream or sleeve where the oil sending unit goes remove that and everything is fine.... I think the panic is coming to an end Time to try and enjoy |