Pertronix Ignitor/Coil Setup
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49843
Printed Date: November-23-2024 at 2:29am
Topic: Pertronix Ignitor/Coil Setup
Posted By: Hysteria
Subject: Pertronix Ignitor/Coil Setup
Date Posted: May-24-2021 at 8:03pm
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Last year was my first year of boat ownership and I discovered a few fun problems with my '76, namely a hot start issue and the fact that the gauges weren't exactly trustworthy. I'm trying to kill two birds with one stone and am rewiring the entire boat while replacing the gauges (other than the speedometers). I inherited a pertronix Ignitor I installed by the previous owner, and replaced the coil with a Pertronix Flamethrower 1.5 ohm at the end of last year. I believe the Ignitor was the main source of the hot start issue as he had it wired on the wrong side of the ballast resistor, and switching it to a better 12v source almost entirely resolved the failure to start when the engine was hot. My question is this: should this setup (Ignitor I w/ 1.5ohm coil) even use a ballast resistor in the first place? The pertronix literature appears to say that a V8 application doesn't need one, but I was hoping someone on here might be familiar with these units and confirm that. |
Replies:
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-25-2021 at 6:44am
I'm familiar enough with that setup to say ........... No resistor needed 
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Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: May-25-2021 at 1:29pm
| Thanks again KENO, seems like you have a monopoly on the engine knowledge department here |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-25-2021 at 10:52pm
Nah, just one of a number of people with a fair amount of experience |
Hysteria wrote:Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: May-25-2021 at 11:39pm
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KENO....the "PerTronics Whisperer" ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-26-2021 at 5:55am
Aw shucks Jonny, by the way, Lern tu spel
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Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: May-26-2021 at 9:11am
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Lemme see... ...PerTronics ...PerTronicks ...PeTronix ...um ...D.U.I. That's it. ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-26-2021 at 4:05pm
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Um.............you forgot Pete tronics DUI, that's hi tech from the mid 70's or something isn't it?
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Posted By: wayoutthere
Date Posted: May-26-2021 at 7:41pm
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How about mounting that coil, horizontally like stock coil was or is vertical required.
Think my new one is the same, 1.5 ohm flamethrower
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Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-26-2021 at 7:46pm
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Let's just say that vertical is not required There have been gazillions of horizontally mounted coils in cars and boats through the years without any dependability issues.
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Posted By: pjsmoreno
Date Posted: May-27-2021 at 9:04am
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Coil doesn’t know which way it up or down, horizontally or
vertical. Coil can be mounted anyway you would like. I have the same ignition
setup as you. I mounted mine down low and out of the way on my BBC. I never
cared in seeing that black can setting on top of the engine. If you are wondering
if the oil in the coil will be a problem then the answer is no. Oil inside is only
for heat transfer to cool the coil. I never seen a coil leak out the oil but if
it does then it’s time to replace. Many people don’t like the Pertronix ignition system
setup as a replacement due to problems they have with them. But I never had
an issue with mine and its been on for over 12 years. |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: June-02-2021 at 9:19am
A DUI is something you get from the PO-PO on the way home from the lake after having to many Tronics, Tronix, um... Tonics that's it.
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Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-04-2021 at 8:32am
| Anyone had an issue with these pertronix ignitors failing when they get hot? My heat soak issue has now returned and the boat was missing hard and wouldn't rev past 2k after a few WOT runs followed by about 20min of sitting. The coil was pretty hot when I checked it, but I replaced the coil after having this issue at the beginning of last year and it's behaving the exact same as when it happened with the old coil. It only wanted to limp along with a ight throttle and would pop and fall on it's face over 1/4 throttle or so. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-04-2021 at 1:33pm
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Probably the only way you'll figure out if the Ignitor is causing your problem is by replacing it with another one or with something else. How many volts are you getting to the Ignitor when the engine is running? They tend to be more finicky when you have low voltage going to them. You'll probably get suggestions ranging from replacing the whole distributor with something like a DUI to going late stone age and putting points back in it. You probably don't have the original points plate that people tend to throw out when they put in an electronic conversion though, since you bought the boat with the Pertronix already installed. With the Ignitor 1, you can damage the internals by leaving the key in Run with the engine off. Silly question time......you thought it was straightened out, then you messed with the secondaries on the carburetor. Are you sure it's not carburetor related since it's the last thing you touched? Otherwise how's it run with secondaries that work?
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Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-04-2021 at 2:06pm
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Believe it or not, I may have the original points in a box of extras that the previous owner gave me. If I do, I may try reinstalling them to troubleshoot this. I haven't metered at the Ignitor yet, but my new alternator puts out a pretty consistent 14.7v and the whole boat is rewired with 10ga copper so I don't think it's suffering from low voltage. However, the previous owner ran it off 6v for who knows how long so I'm wondering if it's damaged from that. The boat runs pretty well when it's cool, but still feels like it's running out of steam and only hits 4100rpm flat out (around 37-38mph). I have a DIY fresh air exhaust so I don't know if that is a contributing factor. The secondaries seem to be working now, but I didn't run it with the cover open until it was hot and at that point I couldn't get enough rpm to do much with them. I could see the linkage starting to move, but too much throttle and it just falls on it's face after it's been heat soaked |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-04-2021 at 2:09pm
| I'll also add that I metered the Ignitor mounting plate and had 0 ohms resistance to the battery ground on the motor. I also relocated the coil off the intake last night and reoriented it vertically to see if that might help. Not expecting much out of that though. |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-05-2021 at 7:29pm
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Wanted to go to the lake today so I hooked the boat up to the hose first, since I don't have much confidence in it at this point. Couldn't even get it started. Took out the pertronix and reinstalled the points with the gap set at .017 and it fired right up. The neighbor let me borrow his timing light after that and I found the base timing set around 30 degrees at idle. Reset it at 10deg. It's got a bit of a rough idle so I thought I would adjust the idle mixture next, but it's only got about 10in of vacuum at 800rpm and the idle screws don't seem to have any effect. Also worth mentioning that the previous owner put an automotive 4160 on this thing. Turns out boats are expensive I guess.
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Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: June-05-2021 at 9:54pm
Name a hobby that isn't  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-06-2021 at 5:50am
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Isaac, Great you got it going by using the point set and finding out the EI was the issue. Go and enjoy the water. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-06-2021 at 5:59am
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Sounds like the carburetor could use a good cleaning so that all the idle passages will do what they're supposed to. Then again, if it's not a marine carburetor there are other solutions What makes you say it's not marine, only reason I ask is that an original 76 marine Holley didn't have j tubes on the vents and tends to fool people these days. It also had externally adjustable floats which also make people think it's not marine. What's the list number on the carburetor? Here's a picture for reference. This one in the picture is 50419-1 Yours might be 6576 for example  |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-06-2021 at 6:26am
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When you put the points in, did you check that the distributor weights had springs that weren't broken and the weights move freely. They should resemble the ones in this picture of a clip down cap distributor like a 76 had. One light spring that's always under tension and one heftier one that has an oval end and is only under tension at higher speeds like around 3500 rpm or higher The slots in the advance limiter plate in this picture are worn which makes getting steady advance and then return back to base timing at idle kinda erratic.  |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-06-2021 at 6:48am
| The list number on the carb is 1850-4. I assumed it was an automotive carb because of the lack of j tubes, no port for the vent line on the fuel pump, and it's set up for a cable choke. When I reinstalled the points I did check the weights, which moved freely. The springs are still in place, and hopefully still in working order. If I can convince my wife it's not going to break down I might take it to the lake today and give it another test run. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-06-2021 at 7:04am
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Let's just say that you assumed right, that's not a marine carburetor The port for the vent line is only on some marine Holleys, others have no port and use a fitting on the flame arrestor Your eventual solution should be a marine carburetor for safety reasons.
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Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-06-2021 at 7:16am
| I'm planning on converting it to EFI this winter. My main goal right now is getting the boat to be reliable enough to haul it down to Dale hollow for a family trip in August |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-06-2021 at 7:57am
Isaac, Make sure you keep us imformed on the EFI project. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-06-2021 at 8:06am
| Anything in particular you want to see on it? I'm planning on using the Holley Sniper kit which seems like a pretty straightforward system. Not sure what I'll end up doing with the ignition system now, I was planning on keeping the pertronix until all this happened. |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: June-06-2021 at 8:23am
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Options are to get another and carefully match the recommended coil resistance, and cross fingers. Alternatively, buy another pertronix, and use it to trigger an msd box, or another spark system or maybe a junkyard Duraspark. The high input impedance of the spark amp limits current through the pertronix to a fraction of it's design. My one data point has lasted 21 years as a trigger after 4 seasons working solo ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-06-2021 at 8:34am
| Part of me wants to get another Pertronix ignitor since this one wasn't installed correctly, but I also have reliability concerns for the obvious reasons |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-06-2021 at 10:29am
I'd keep the point set in it, do the EFI and then see how it runs. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-06-2021 at 12:01pm
| I guess my boat just doesn't love me. Out on the lake now and it still runs like garbage with a load on it. Runs a little better when I return it to 30deg advance base timing, which I don't fully understand, but still won't rev out. So, I limped it over to a quiet part of the lake to let the kiddo swim and make the best of it |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: June-06-2021 at 4:10pm
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If everything is set up properly and you are really at 30 degrees BTDC on the ignition timing as "base" then your engine would have serious detonation issues under load. Add 24 degrees of distributor advance at 3,000 RPM and you are looking at 54 degrees total advance. Doesn't pass the smell test... JQ ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-06-2021 at 4:27pm
| I agree, seems impossible. I'm going to try to figure out a way to set it at tdc with some accuracy then see if the harmonic damper is lying to me |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: June-06-2021 at 4:42pm
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Try this: Remove plugs (it makes it easier). Using a large socket and ratchet or breaker-bar, rotate the engine by turning the large nut on the harmonic balancer. Assuming your engine is RR, you will turn counter-clockwise when doing this from the front of the engine. While slowly rotating the engine, place your thumb over the #1 cylinder spark plug hole. On a small-block Ford, that would be the cylinder closest to the driver's seat. While rotating then engine, you will eventually feel air pressure building under your thumb as the piston moves upward on the compression stroke. Once you are sure that you are on the compression stroke (not exhaust stroke), take a long stiff soda straw or new pencil (eraser side down) and slide it into the spark plug hole until it rests on top of the piston. Then, slowly rotate the engine while keeping you soda straw / pencil against the head of the piston. As you rotate the engine, the piston will push the straw / pencil upwards out of the spark plug hole. When the straw / pencil stops moving upwards, you should be at top dead center (TDC). Then you can check your timing marks and indicator on the harmonic balancer and see if everything looks kosher. JQ
------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-06-2021 at 5:52pm
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You can skip the straw and come up with the same results. Since the plug hole is pretty close to horizontal and there's a big hunk of exhaust manifold above it, the straw really just flops around sideways and doesn't tell you that you're at TDC any better than just using your thumb and watching the pointer and timing marks like JQ mentioned There's also an explanation for initial timing of 30 degrees BTDC that passes the "smell test" If that little spring I asked about earlier is too stretched out or broken (you say it's not broken earlier in the thread), then the control of the timing by the weights is pretty much gone. As soon as the engine is started and idling at 700 or so RPM, your timing jumps right up to about 30 degrees BTDC due to no limiting effect from the little spring and with the big spring coming into play at about 3500 or so RPM, you'll end up with about 6 more degrees of timing giving around 36 total. It sounds like somebody may have set the total timing at 36 degrees or so and let idle fall wherever it landed. It can idle great and run good that way. Even starts good because while it's cranking over the flyweights haven't moved too much at all yet. (been there and had run an engine like that for years, now it has a pair of springs that function the way they're supposed to) Easy enough to verify, just check your timing at your idle speed and then rev it up in neutral to 3500 to 4000 rpm and see what the timing reads to see if the little spring is doing what it should be doing.
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Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: June-06-2021 at 5:59pm
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Geez KENO, my backyard hackery pencil-in-the-plug-hole works great! Last time I used that method was on my 1994…and there was enough space even with the manifold. This is a good test to confirm harmonic balancer timing marks and timing indicator / pointer. ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-06-2021 at 6:05pm
Whatever,
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Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-06-2021 at 6:20pm
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I did that test this morning before I took the boat out and ran into the issues that ken described. It seemed right, but I wouldn't trust myself to feel a few degrees of difference so I was hoping to come up with a different way of doing it. I know the mech advance works, but I wasn't paying attention to what rpm it was advancing at so I can check that again when I get it running. The boat ended up dying today and wouldn't even idle. We got nice and wet getting it off the lake, so I need to get this fixed before the wife puts in a sell order. Also found a rebuild kit for the carb locally after we got back so I'm going to freshen that up as well
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Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: June-07-2021 at 6:37am
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Late to the party on this one guys. FWIW I dropped a Pertronix module in the 88' about 12+ years ago and it's run flawlessly since. I did go with a flamethrower epoxy filled coil as the oil filled coils gave me fits as they didn't like the horizontal install. Paddling the boat with an oar and a slalom ski ain't fun. Have the 1.5 resistor installed along with iridium plugs. Plugs have been in about 10 years. Pulled them last fall and still looked fantastic. No mention yet of how the plugs look or condition of the wires. I do recall a couple threads here about guys having problems with the pertronix module but most I personally know have not had any problems. Interesting that you were still having issues after swapping back to points. Sounds like you may have to bite the bullet and get a Holley 4160. Be thankful you don't need a 450 cfm carb as they are $200 more than a 650cfm and prices have gone up $200 from a couple years ago. Geez!!!  ------------- "Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman" |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-07-2021 at 7:14am
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I put the rebuild kit in my 4160 last night, don't think it was needed though. Carb was clean and the gaskets were still pretty pliable. However, I did find that the transfer slots on the primaries were almost fully exposed, which is probably why my idle mixture screws didn't do anything. The idle speed screw had to be opened that far to get the motor to idle at 700-800 rpm in neutral, so I'm not sure what's causing that yet. I adjusted the secondaries to the bottom of the transfer slots while I had it off as well. After that, I attempted to reset the timing to around 10deg, but the motor isn't running at this point so it was a little tricky. It will occasionally hit while it cranks, but it's inconsistent and won't idle. Giving it a shot of fuel from the accelerator pump seems to help, but choking it doesn't. Won't start with the throttle fully closed or cracked open either. If I can get it running, I'll check the timing advance. Last time it was running it had a random hard miss at idle when set to 10deg that would smooth out when I advanced to to that 30deg range. I'll also try to do a better job verifying that the timing marks on the pulley correspond to the true TDC soon. Thanks for all the input guys |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-07-2021 at 7:37am
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For your idle issues, you might want to click on the link below and read the whole thing, but make sure you look at the 11th post down which has a link to a Cobra website with good pictures of the air bleeds that are often overlooked along with an easy cleaning method if the carburetor is assembled http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49661&title=hot-start-problem" rel="nofollow - link
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Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-07-2021 at 7:49am
| Thanks, I'll check the air bleeds and make sure they are clear. Never heard of the whole ethanol/zinc thing before, that's interesting. The boat has only seen rec 90 since I've had it, but I imagine the previous owners probably used e10 |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-07-2021 at 7:31pm
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Blew out the bleed passages and then took the metering block off and cleaned it with carb cleaner again after that didn't work. Really seems like a fuel issue right now because if I give it a couple squirts with the accelerator pump it will fire a few times pretty consistently. Otherwise, it randomly hits while cranking but never starts up. Kinda running out of ideas on that front. Also double checked the mechanical advance, which appears to be normal. Checked the compression just to make sure something didn't go south mechanically and it has 110-120psi (cold of course) on all 8 cylinders. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-08-2021 at 7:21am
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I think that right about now a quick review of the status of the timing and carburetor might be a good thing. When the base was at 30 degrees, how far was it advancing? Are you sure there are no vacuum leaks, like at the carburetor spacer gaskets?
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Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-08-2021 at 10:17am
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I don't have an answer for question #1 because I reset the timing to 10deg and never checked the advance when the base was at 30. I did look at the timing when it was at 10deg base and it advanced when it I revved up the motor. I tried checking for vacuum leaks around the intake with propane and couldn't find any. Carb spacer gaskets all looked good when I pulled the carb off, but were replaced anyway |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-08-2021 at 10:45pm
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The low vacuum thing has been bothering me so I checked the timing chain tonight by rotating the crank while watching the distributor rotor. It showed about 15 degrees of crank rotation before the rotor moved, so I went ahead and pulled the timing cover off and confirmed that the timing set is shot. Ordered parts and am hoping to have it back together this weekend. Can't really say this explains the weird ignition timing behavior, but it should be a step in the right direction. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-09-2021 at 6:00am
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I imagine your 76 had the silent chain and an aluminum upper gear with nylon coated teeth along with a 2 pc fuel pump eccentric. That's what was original on a 76. Were all the teeth intact or maybe lots of chunks missing to make for all the slop? I think it would explain why the timing had to be advanced and it would screw up all your valve opening and closing timing too which would affect vacuum which would make for that lousy running engine .. |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-09-2021 at 6:26am
| Yes, it had the nylon coated cam sprocket, looked like everything was still intact though. The ignition timing references the crank so I wouldn't think the chain slop would require ignition advance. I do think (hope anyway) that the late valve timing was causing the poor vacuum, which is why I started investigating it in the first place. If I can get it to run and idle after this is fixed I'll take another look at the ignition timing to see how it behaves. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-09-2021 at 6:51am
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But the ignition timing starts at that camshaft that's not timed right with the crankshaft if you have a bunch of slop. It's kinda lagging behind Whenever you move the distributor to adjust timing if you physically rotate the distributor 10 degrees for example, the crankshaft timing that you're looking at with the timing light will change by twice as much so you'll see 20 degrees of change since the camshaft is rotating at half of the crankshaft speed. I think you'll see a change for the better if you have too much slop now and it's taken care of with a new timing set.
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Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-09-2021 at 7:23am
| It doesn't really matter how much you turn the distributor in relation to the camshaft because you don't reference any timing marks on the cam though. In your example, the timing changes by 20 degrees at the crank no matter how advanced or retarded your cam timing is. It's no different than people who run adjustable cam gears aside from the fact that the timing might walk back and forth a little due to the play in the chain. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-09-2021 at 7:29am
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Whatever
I think your baseline or starting point has moved with the slop though.
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Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-09-2021 at 7:57am
| I'll see how it looks when I get the new timing set in there. Whatever the case may be, I appreciate all your help and the info you provide on here |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-09-2021 at 8:17am
Let's hope it's fixed or a lot better anyways 
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Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-11-2021 at 9:46pm
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Installed the new timing set, but that wasn't the problem. Changing it out did advance my valve timing a ton though, so I'm interested to see how it does next time I'm on the water. After the timing set didn't fix it, I went back to the ignition system, knowing that I had compression and being pretty confident that I had fuel. I knew I had spark from using the timing light and an inline spark tester, but I didn't know how strong it was. So, I bought an adjustable spark gap tester and sure enough, it was bad. Must have been just enough to trigger the timing light and inline test light. I checked the spark again right off the coil and it was jumping 1/2" gap with no issues, so I took a really close look at the distributor cap and found some carbon tracking between posts. When I installed the new cap this evening, it drastically changed the spark timing. I'm not entirely sure what was happening, but I'm guessing that the spark crossing over between posts in the cap was throwing my timing light way off and causing all the weirdness before. After putting it back at 10deg initial timing again, it fired right up and ran great in the driveway. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-12-2021 at 6:40am
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I guess we'll be waiting to hear that the timing advances from 10 BTDC to the low 30's and the engine revs to 4500 plus with the Acme 540 and runs 45 plus mph and all will be "right"
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Posted By: fanofccfan
Date Posted: June-12-2021 at 9:27am
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Isnt it awesome to fix things! Good work. ------------- 2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-12-2021 at 9:31am
  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-12-2021 at 3:47pm
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Boat ran well on the lake with no drama today. I adjusted the accelerator pump linkage and it's running the best it ever has with no hesitation or misfires. Still only getting about 37mph @4200rpm out of it, but I that may be due in part to my exhaust. I checked the timing in the driveway before I left and it looked to be advancing another 20deg or so when I revved it up. The pertronix unit is back in the distributor now, it must have been a coincidence that the failing cap got a second wind when I reinstalled the points. I'm pretty happy with how it's running right now so I'll probably leave it alone and start fixing the little things until I'm done with it for the season. Appreciate all the suggestions and troubleshooting help from you guys by the way, there's a lot of knowledge on these boats floating around this site |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-12-2021 at 4:28pm
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Isaac, The 4200 isn't that bad but a few hundred more would be better. I don't recall if you mentioned what prop you are running. What is it as that could be the WOT RPM's issue. The 37 MPH, is that a GPS reading or from the speedo(s)? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-12-2021 at 4:39pm
| It's a brand new Acme 540 and that reading is from GPS. On that note, if anyone knows where to get replacement gauge faces for the airguides, I would love to replace them. They are the off white style, which I think it a really classy look. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-13-2021 at 5:52am
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Since you seem to be the inquisitive kind of guy that isn't afraid to investigate and then try something while getting the boat's issues straightened out, I think you should take off the FAE temporarily so you can see how much affect it has on your performance just so you know if the engine is running right I mean like what kind of guy (other than me and I'm not normal) puts the allegedly dead Pete-tronics module back in the distributor to see if it works after the cap change. (and it did) You're A-OK in my book Hysteria No FAE, you should be seeing 4500plus RPM and 45 plus MPH with that prop on your boat. Then you can reinstall the FAE, at least knowing what it's affect is on the performance and whether the engine/boat runs like it should before the FAE addition
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Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-13-2021 at 8:42am
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I agree with you, and not knowing the answer is going to bother me until I run the boat with it off again. I went back after installing the 540 and looked at a .gpx file from when I ran the boat in it's original form last year, and it shows a top speed of 40mph. I can't imagine it's slower with the new prop, and the only variable that comes to mind is the FAE. I backyard engineered it of course, and ended up with a lot of spray coming through my swim platform that I had to address afterwards. I'm sure it's adding a lot of drag and screwing things up under the water. Like you suggested, the solution is pretty simple. I know I need to run it without the FAE, it's just hard to bring myself to take it off because it's so nice having it on there. |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-13-2021 at 9:07am
This is the part in question. If anyone has a suggestion on how to improve it, I'm all ears. I tried to imitate the other FAE I had seen online, but ended up with a lot of water coming through the platform and had to put some foam under the slots to stop it.
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Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-13-2021 at 12:16pm
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Hey, is that your first CCF picture? Congrats Looks well built and a good copy of what's out there. I can barely spell FAE and know nothing worthwhile about them other than they're quiet and keep the nasty stuff underwater, but it's seems like it would be pretty deep in the water, adding extra drag, unless it's just the camera angle. That one picture will make the "noisy boys" start clutching their chests and mumbling something about having the big one, but it's your boat so you can do whatever you please
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Posted By: fanofccfan
Date Posted: June-13-2021 at 4:51pm
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I’m a noisy boy……your pipe looks well built but I would think it could be much shorter and still be effective for noise reduction and not produce so much drag if in fact it is. ------------- 2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-13-2021 at 5:11pm
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I've posted a few on here, but man it's tough to make them work on my phone. This site in general is pretty bad on mobile, but it's worth it for the information. I'm pretty much over loud cars/boats by now, but I built it after reading what the CO can do to people who ride behind the boat or in the back seat. Anyway, I can probably take a few inches off it like you guys suggested and still send the exhaust well past the tub.... I mean slalom skiers. |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-19-2021 at 9:19pm
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I cut around 4-5 inches off my FAE and gained some top end, so I think you guys were right on the money there. Didn't seem to make any difference in noise levels either, which is great. Now that the boat is running well, I'm looking at installing the Edelbrock performer intake I picked up for the boat last winter. Are you guys blocking the exhaust crossover when you install an aluminum intake, or leaving the system intact? I'm also looking at a set of gt40p heads that a local guy is selling and was wondering if there is anything I need to watch out for on the swap other than drilling it out to 0.500" for the 351 head bolts and installing brass freeze plugs? From what I'm reading, it looks like a pretty straightforward swap that can reuse pretty much everything but the spark plugs. |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: June-19-2021 at 10:47pm
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FWIW I blocked the passage at the head when I installed the Performer RPM unit in the ‘94. No issues. Some “P” heads come pre-drilled T 1/2”. You will like the 90 degree spark plug holes when it comes to changing plugs. When changing heads, valve train geometry is critical. Lots of instructional videos on YouTube for all that stuff. If you are changing heads, are you thinking to go with roller rockers? JQ
------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-19-2021 at 11:33pm
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I think I'd drill them (gt40P) to the same size as your present 351 heads and that's 17/32 Here's some reading in the link below |
Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-20-2021 at 12:01am
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No, I wasn't planning on switching to roller rockers. Mostly because I'm assuming there would be some pretty significant cost involved and I'm not sure if the boat is really worth that kind of an investment in it's current form. Thank you for the tip on drilling them to 17/32". If they need to be opened up anyway and that's what a 351 head is from the factory, I don't see any reason not to. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-20-2021 at 7:13am
If it's the Performer 2181 manifold that you have, you should read the link below for info on a spacer plate that'll keep you from having vacuum leak issues due to the skinny mounting surface for the carburetor on the manifold. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46776&title=carb-spacer-to-intake-gasket-issues" rel="nofollow - link
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Posted By: Hysteria
Date Posted: June-20-2021 at 7:36am
| Thanks again KENO. I noticed that mounting surface was pretty thin when I was cleaning it up (it's a used intake) and was wondering how well it would seal. That plate looks like a great idea |