RR 351 long block
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Buy and Sell
Forum Name: Boat Parts For Sale
Forum Discription: Parts for sale only
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49942
Printed Date: November-21-2024 at 7:16pm
Topic: RR 351 long block
Posted By: bwinn
Subject: RR 351 long block
Date Posted: June-24-2021 at 9:16am
|
SOLD Reverse Rotation 351 long block Located in CT Picked this up as a spare I believe it to be 80s vintage? Early? Turns over and has compression Interested parties inquire within -burton |
Replies:
Posted By: bwinn
Date Posted: July-11-2021 at 9:07am
| Sunday bump to top |
Posted By: FrankBee3
Date Posted: September-10-2021 at 5:49pm
|
Hello Burton. Do you still have the RR 351 engine for sale? Do you know if it had been overhauled in the past or if it is a PCM original engine? Any idea how much time is on the engine or how long it has been inactive? Do you have a distributor with the reverse rotation gear available with it. I have a 1984 Ski Nautique that someone put in a standard rotation engine in. It makes the boat pull very hard toward starboard when the boat in on plane and lists into a right bank about 10 degrees when operating the boat in a straight line solo. I think my boat would be a better boat if it is returned to a RR engine. My email is fbritton3@gmail.com; phone is 603-293-3828. I look forward to hearing from you. Frank Britton Sincerely, Frank Britton ------------- 1984 Ski Nautique, project bigger than anticipated Staring down a stringer and floor replacement |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: September-10-2021 at 8:30pm
| Or you could put a PCM 1:23-1 transmission in it that will take the lefty motor to a righty prop. |
Posted By: FrankBee3
Date Posted: September-11-2021 at 11:06am
|
That sounds like a great idea! Do you know if the engine mounts and engine/transmission will work with the prop shaft angle? I think the engine sits level in the boat with the PCM transmission in the boat? Do you know what sized prop I would need? I guess I should make up a list of parts that would be needed to do that.. Thanks for the idea! ------------- 1984 Ski Nautique, project bigger than anticipated Staring down a stringer and floor replacement |
Posted By: bwinn
Date Posted: September-11-2021 at 11:15am
|
Hey Frank, looks like your in NH? -engine is available -unknown condition All I’ve done to it is prime oil system and compression check. It has been sitting for years -no distributor -definitely crusty rusty I have pics I can send along if interested |
Posted By: FrankBee3
Date Posted: September-11-2021 at 11:28am
|
I would like to see photos of the engine if possible. I am very interested. Yes, I am in central New Hampshire near Lake Winnisquam. The boat ramp is a nice 15 minute ride from my house. My engine runs pretty well, but the boat needs great care while underway. If one lets go of the steering wheel while the boat is on plane, the wheel will pull all the way to the stop, hard right within three seconds. My hope is that a reverse rotation engine will put the boat back in order. ------------- 1984 Ski Nautique, project bigger than anticipated Staring down a stringer and floor replacement |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-11-2021 at 2:00pm
Now this may start some discussion, but when you put in the RH rotation engine with your nice easy steering and you let go of the wheel, it'll probably pull just as hard and fast to the left, unless somebody's done some crazy rudder tuning. It's from propeller torque. It'll do more to make the boat ride level though when you're all alone in the boat Lone Ranger style.
|
FrankBee3 wrote:Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-11-2021 at 3:13pm
|
A rudder tuning is a great idea. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: ScottZ
Date Posted: September-16-2021 at 6:23am
|
I have a freshly rebuilt PCM 40 Transmission for sale if you decide to go that route. The rear mounts that you currently have should work. ------------- Scott Zuelzke Lake Mitchell , AL 1984 Ski Nautique 1972 Skier |
Posted By: FrankBee3
Date Posted: September-17-2021 at 5:47pm
|
Hi Scott, I remember reading in the 1989 Correct Craft Ski Nautique brochure about the engine sitting level and being a normal rotation engine with a right hand propeller. How much are you asking for the PCM transmission? Thanks for reaching out! ------------- 1984 Ski Nautique, project bigger than anticipated Staring down a stringer and floor replacement |
Posted By: ScottZ
Date Posted: September-17-2021 at 10:19pm
|
Hey Frank. You are correct. With the gear reduction the output shaft is angled allowing the engine to sit level. I will take $1200 for it. Transmission cooler and lines included. Plus shipping. ------------- Scott Zuelzke Lake Mitchell , AL 1984 Ski Nautique 1972 Skier |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-18-2021 at 6:52am
|
Just to be sure you realize there's a little more than swapping the transmissions Frank, you'll be needing A new prop shaft or you'll need to be cutting yours down by 3 inches and cutting a new keyway You already mentioned a new prop A new damper plate because the number of splines are different on the PCM 40A and your Borg Warner transmission input shafts New engine and transmission mounts Some new exhaust hoses between the riser outlets and your mufflers unless the mufflers are gone, then you'll most likely need new hoses anyways because it's hard to stretch those hoses and there's no extra length You'll need a little "seat of the pants engineering" This swap seems to get thrown out there, but is seldom or never done, and then the process actually documented here. Maybe somebody who has actually done it will come along with all the details  |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: September-18-2021 at 11:42am
|
I’m pretty sure if the mounting blocks are on the tranny the existing mounts will work, if no blocks they are available from skidim for 40 bucks ea. I would think the exhaust hose would still reach as you would be lowering the front more than raising the back, I don’t think the back would be coming up all that much. Again just a guess at this point. Like Keno said, if someone that has done the swap would have more intel. Or Frankbee can be a pioneer and document it for the next one.
 |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-18-2021 at 11:56am
|
A little engine and transmission mount info can be figured out from the link  Differences front and rear
|
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: September-18-2021 at 10:17pm
|
First I have ever heard that the front mounts were different- knew the backs were. I'll have to look at my extra stuff closer,I have gt40 fronts on that complete engine and I have several fronts from engines with velvet trans. From memory they are the same. Like Paul says really the engine is moving from only 12* down to 0*
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: September-19-2021 at 5:42am
|
What I found switching to PCM drive to Chevy in a gen 2 SN Switching to a PCM drive has lowered the front of the engine by 3'3/4in, as for stringer height off the hull I would now shoot for 7in(mine are at 6'1/2) to underside of mounts at the front( note PCM have 3 sizes of engine block mounts for Chevy I'm using the short) and 6in to the underside of the rear mounts. If your going to use a cradle you need to take the thickness off along with the drain tray from the above sizes and all sizes are from engine side of stringers. The prop shaft will need to be shortened by 4in all sizes are working off a distance from end of the log to the coupling of 6'3/4 which leave room to fit a PSS seal and places the engine where its always been but lower. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-19-2021 at 6:10am
I think you need to divide that 12 by 4 and multiply by 3 to get the down angle of a PCM40A
|
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-19-2021 at 6:27am
|
So for Frank If you're still thinking about this, what all this translates to is " it's not an easy straightforward (or cheap) swap"
|
Posted By: FrankBee3
Date Posted: September-19-2021 at 9:54am
|
Gentlemen, I thank you for your input. The link was helpful as was all the information. I have decided that since my running gear (aside from the engine) has been renewed, I am better off finishing with a renewed engine. I have a new damper plate, transmission rebuild, new coupling, reworked driveshaft, new packing (prop shaft and rudder} and a new but temporary prop. Meanwhile, the engine is the weak link in this boat. It has blow-by, leaks and burns oil and has somewhat low compression. I have decided that I will put a RR rotation engine back in the boat as it was designed. Seems a lot less expensive that swapping the tramsmission and mounts and all the unforeseen scary stuff that will certainly come up. I still have the stringers and floor to do, so there is lots of work left ahead.. and tools to buy. A gantry crane is next on the list of tools. I should have spent the $10,000 on a nice eighties vintage Ski Nautique. I would have spent less overall, but I get to know you guys in the process of keeping a nice boat from the scrap heap of history. ------------- 1984 Ski Nautique, project bigger than anticipated Staring down a stringer and floor replacement |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-19-2021 at 10:30am
|
Frank, I feel you made a wise decision.  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: September-19-2021 at 12:44pm
|
I agree. Not knowing that the rest of the drive train was newish that makes total sense. This does make me want to pull my ‘85 RR motor and put in the lefty with the PCM I have sitting in the garage. Just to many other projects right now. I would bet that normally it wouldn’t be that hard to find a RR motor. But we have those Damn Benjamin’s buying up everything CC related on the eastern seaboard.
 |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-19-2021 at 12:53pm
|
Frank Since you'll be rebuilding the transmission and putting it on a Reverse Rotation engine, you're gonna need to reindex the pump for Reverse rotation or it won't work at all. I'd print out the picture below and blow it up and hang it on the wall in your garage or wherever. It shows how the arrow (painted red in the picture) on the front of the pump should be oriented for a Reverse Rotation engine The picture needs to rotate 90 degrees clockwise because......well just because  |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-19-2021 at 12:58pm
Those bastards
|
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: September-19-2021 at 8:55pm
|
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: September-19-2021 at 10:15pm
It’s been done, and written up here with pictures- it’s just been a dozen years or so and the pictures disappeared. It is a bit involved and expensive but the mounts don’t need to be changed on an old boat. I bought the new style trans mounts after doing the Internet research thinking they were trans related but really it was the stringer/cradle differences for the single exhaust that changed the mounts. New ones do work in the old boats but just barely - so stick with the old ones. Damper, shaft, prop - add nearly a 1000 to the cost of the transmission. Usually only worth doing if you have a line on an engine and a used transmission sitting around. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-20-2021 at 7:38am
I guess you should go back and actually look at your thread Joe. The pictures seem to be there with some not really very clear words about what mounts or mounting blocks ended up being used on the engine or transmission. Page 5 is where the mounts first show up. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5635&PN=1&title=a-351w-stroker-from-scratch" rel="nofollow - link Maybe you can clarify it
|
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: September-20-2021 at 9:51am
|
Glad to know the photo bucket pics are back - I used the new style transmission mounts on the old style cradle, same hole location on the stringers but have maybe one thread of adjustment left on the bottom. Considering everything on my boat was replaced and the amount of variation in these boats- I suspect they would not have enough room for adjustment on some boats that originally came with a 1:1 bw. Keeping the older style mounts would have given more space for adjustment- for the mounting blocks on the trans the older 3 bolt ones for the bw would have worked with two bolts lining up on the pcm trans - be uglier but you can cut off the extra. Later on pcm switched to “space saver” mounting blocks for the 1:23-1 - using those would require you to drill new transmission Mount holes on an older style cradle and would not be recommended. Once you Mount the transmission is the original holes you have the proper front/back position handled - if your front mounts don’t line up on the original holes drill new ones but I suspect they will. Shorter shaft, new damper, new propeller and off boating - well a shift cable bracket mod likely as well. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-20-2021 at 8:11pm
|
I think the way you see the pictures from photobucket is with one of those Chrome extensions that you can download from the Google Chrome store.. I use the "photobucket hotlink fix" but there are other fixes that do the same thing. You must have one of them Joe, otherwise the Photobucket pictures come up blank on CCF without one of the fixes You might think I'm kinda geeky, but I learned all this stuff from a 13 year old a handful of years ago.
|
Posted By: FrankBee3
Date Posted: September-21-2021 at 3:22pm
|
Hi Keno, I did just rebuild the transmission in June. I am planning on re-indexing the oil pump when the time comes. The entire running gear has been rebuilt with the exception of the engine. Fortunately, most of my mechanical experience is with rebuilding engines. I will probably write up a forum entry on the boats condition when I bought it. I have learned a lot about boats and in particular, Correct Crafts due to the CorrectCraft Fan website. Here is a photo of the exhaust "mufflers" that I found when I got the boat home. I the entire boat had been hacked over the years.  ------------- 1984 Ski Nautique, project bigger than anticipated Staring down a stringer and floor replacement |
Posted By: bwinn
Date Posted: October-18-2021 at 9:01am
| SOLD. Thanks Frank very nice to meet you. |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: October-18-2021 at 8:00pm
|
Good luck Frank Keep us posted on your progress.
|
Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: November-06-2021 at 6:05pm
| Very informative discussion. I'm curious though, if this particular issue can be corrected with the later model rudders that have the integrated adjustable trim tab. I think those rudders were on the longer hull boats, like Sports and such.... |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: November-07-2021 at 7:25am
If this particular issue is the lean because of engine torque with a normal vs a reverse rotation setup, then the rudder tabs will do nothing to change that. You must be wondering about this because you bought a Hydrodyne with a LH prop ?
|
Posted By: FrankBee3
Date Posted: December-03-2021 at 1:30pm
|
Hello Burton! I just wanted to follow up with you and update this thread. The engine that you sold me is in very good condition. There was some rust in a couple of cylinders and a few specks on the first camshaft lobe. I was able to clean the rust off and have a useable block and cam. I don't think the engine had ever been overhauled because all of the pistons, bearings and camshaft have Ford logos and original part numbers. The bores are useable at standard size and so is the crankshaft. This is a best case engine overhaul. So basically, a ring, bearing and gasket set overhaul. The only challenge I have at the moment is to find a distributer gear for the reverse rotation camshaft. It took a long time to get to this point since I had to go buy a set of micrometers and inside bore micrometers. I bought everything used and ended up with great tools to tackle this job. In the meantime, I have decided to outsource the floor and stringer job to a shop while I rebuild the engine and re-index the velvet drive oil pump. I am working up a parts list now and hope to order the parts as soon as finances permit. I am currently looking for a reverse rotation distributer gear, or whole distributer. Does anyone have a photo of dashboard/instruments of an original 1984 Correct Craft Ski Nautique? I would like to find and install all of the original engine gauges. I do have the original speedometers and I think the tach. Everything else is aftermarket automotive gauges that work. ------------- 1984 Ski Nautique, project bigger than anticipated Staring down a stringer and floor replacement |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-03-2021 at 7:48pm
|
Here's a picture of an 83 or 84 (basically the same those two years) from somewhere here on CCF Looks pretty normal except for that thing to the left of the ignition fuse Gauges on the left are temp, oil and volts from top to bottom Gauges on the right are hours and fuel top to bottom Bilge drain plug in a good storage spot on the steering wheel  |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-03-2021 at 8:03pm
I've never bought anything from these guys in the link but they have a RR 351w gear that'll fit a Prestolite distributor if that's what you have right now, if you want to spend 150 bucks for it or they have a HEI 351w RR distributor for 490 bucks that resembles a DUI HEI distributor. http://aaamarine.com/ford-302-351w-reverse-rotation-distributor-gears-531-shafts" rel="nofollow - link If I was gonna get a whole distributor though, the "CCF choice" would be the DUI HEI in the link below http://performancedistributors.com/product/marine-dui-distributors/" rel="nofollow - link You'd want the 351w Windsor(7000 rpm) with RR gear 460 bucks Here's a link to one at Summit Racing http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dui-m35820rrbl" rel="nofollow - link The RR in the part number is the most important part, it tells you it's for a reverse rotation engine (M35820 RRBL) The BL is for a blue cap. |
Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: December-08-2021 at 7:26pm
Ha! I just saw this! Too funny. With that said it just arrived in Chapel Hill yesterday for its winters nap in a toasty warm garage (thanks mom) ;-) |
Posted By: bwinn
Date Posted: December-30-2021 at 9:52am
Frank, Sorry for the late reply but I am very happy to hear that the engine is going to work out for you. It sounds like you are on the right track in getting your boat back to a reliable and safe Correct Craft and I believe you will be happy in the long run. Please keep us posted as to your progress. We all enjoy a story about another CC that has been saved. Best of luck -burton
|