100 Amp alternator upgrade
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49974
Printed Date: November-21-2024 at 10:54pm
Topic: 100 Amp alternator upgrade
Posted By: MurphyCO
Subject: 100 Amp alternator upgrade
Date Posted: July-04-2021 at 7:13pm
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I recently replaced the alternator on my 99 GT40 with the PCM RF097009A 100 amp upgrade. Kit was straightforward and relatively easy to install. However, you have to use your old pulley as the one that comes with the new alternator is grooved for serpentine belt. Still ok,, once I used an impact to spin off the grooved pulley. NP shipped a bushing that is supposed to keep the pulley from contacting the body of the alternator, which it most certainly will do without a bushing of some sort. Issue was, when I installed the pulley using the bushing they supplied the pulley is way out of alignment with the engine pulley below that drives it. Quite noticeably so. I found a much thinner bushing on my old alternator and used it; the alignment is much better but still off slightly, You can see that the belt skews out a bit to align and squeaks when you start the engine. I know that belt life is going to be compromised as it will just wear unevenly. Anyone else experience this issue? The new alternator fits snugly in the brackets with no possible way to adjust it front to back on the engine, at least that I can tell. Bushing out the pulley would be the only way to align it properly. Gary |
Replies:
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-04-2021 at 7:53pm
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Assuming that you have to go back toward the engine looking at the Black alternator bracket in the picture, if you're feeling adventurous you could do a little "backyard machining" and file/grind/machine a little of the ear with the Green box around it and fill the space you'll now have with a washer where the Blue arrow is to move the alternator back toward the engine a little bit Or......file/grind/machine the 2 mounting ears with the Orange box around them, the appropriate amount to move the alternator and bracket together back toward the engine.  If you had to move it forward, washers behind the 2 mounting ears circled in Orange would do it, but it sounds like you need to go back I've done both at different times for different alternators  |
Posted By: MurphyCO
Date Posted: July-12-2021 at 7:54am
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[QUOTE=KENO]
Assuming that you have to go back toward the engine looking at the Black alternator bracket in the picture, if you're feeling adventurous you could do a little "backyard machining" and file/grind/machine a little of the ear with the Green box around it and fill the space you'll now have with a washer where the Blue arrow is to move the alternator back toward the engine a little bit Or......file/grind/machine the 2 mounting ears with the Orange box around them, the appropriate amount to move the alternator and bracket together back toward the engine. If you had to move it forward, washers behind the 2 mounting ears circled in Orange would do it, but it sounds like you need to go back I've done both at different times for different alternators Is there a source for an alternator bracket that I could buy and work on till I was satisfied with the results and then change out on the boat? I'm certainly willing to try some backyard machining but keeping the original intact just in case would be less "adventurous" for me. Gary
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Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-12-2021 at 12:56pm
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Those brackets are on the endangered species list. Yours should have a part number on it like R090055B for normal rotation Fords of your year. There was a R090055 for earlier years with a Prestolite alternator.. You can do a search and find numerous places advertising them and an equally numerous number of places saying "not available". There are also R090055A and R090055C for RH engines that are equally unavailable. It is a lot easier to be "adventurous" when you have an extra around A quick Ebay check showed none of any of the numbers mentioned above.
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Posted By: MurphyCO
Date Posted: July-12-2021 at 1:21pm
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Summit racing had a whole bunch of brackets that supposedly work, and there was even some that were adjustable? But probably not adjustable "in and out" which of course is what I need. I still think the alternator upgrade is good, but they should warn that alignment could be an issue. Had I used the supplied spacer my issue would be twice as bad. I was able to us a much thinner one from the old alternator and got it close, but still not what is should be. Plus, there is a quick squeak when the engine fires so I fear belt life will be shorter.
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Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-12-2021 at 5:45pm
| So......how much space are you trying to lose to get the alignment right? |
Posted By: MurphyCO
Date Posted: July-12-2021 at 5:51pm
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I'm away from the boat now but I believe about 1/4" or so. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-12-2021 at 6:38pm
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Just so you don't feel like the Lone Ranger here's a link to a PN thread where the same pulley issue was mentioned by "Chexi". He used no spacer when he put his old pulley on from the sounds of it. It sounds like yours wouldn't work with no spacer though. http://www.planetnautique.com/vb5/forum/nautique-topics/maintenance-technical-discussion/29033-100-amp-alternator-upgrade-gt40" rel="nofollow - link Is it safe to assume it was lined up good with the old alternator ? Did you ever have to change the circulating pump? Some of them are thicker in the flange area where the alternator bracket mounts. |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: July-12-2021 at 6:42pm
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Might be worth looking at alternative pulleys of same diameter and belt size that might have a slightly different configuration. McMaster Carr or someplace similar. I'm not at my boat or I'd take a look at mine to see if I had any other ideas. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: MurphyCO
Date Posted: July-13-2021 at 10:01am
With no spacer my pulley will rub on the alternator, so that won't work. It was properly aligned with the old alternator however. |
KENO wrote:Posted By: MurphyCO
Date Posted: July-13-2021 at 10:06am
That's an idea, I'll check and see. I also considered taking the thicker bushing spacer that came from Nautique parts to a machine shop and have it cut down, maybe enough to still clear the flange of the pulley to the alternator body but moving it back to alignment. Will have to do some straight edge calculations to see if that might work. There are no brackets around anywhere that I can find. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-14-2021 at 10:43pm
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Did you call say Skidim, Nautique Parts or Marine Parts Express and ask if the bracket is available? It's part number R090055 list price shows it's under 20 bucks which sounds unbelievable. It's been my experience that if there is a price listed it is still available. Here is the Marine Parts Express link- https://www.marinepartsexpress.com/cart/index.php?ID=r090055
And before that other guy says something, PCM says- R090055R is not available use R090055
What is the part number cast into the bracket you have now?------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-15-2021 at 6:55am
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That other guy would probably say that PCM R09055R ain't the part number. Put a B in place of the R. He'd also say that if MurphyCO finds a PCM R09055 bracket, the ears for the lower pivot bolt have a 7/16 hole in them and the R09055B has 3/8 holes in those same ears. That's what the physical difference is in those 2 part numbers So that means there would be some drilling of the alternator for a 7/16 inch bolt or some bushing of the bracket ears down to 3/8 inch. The early Prestolite had a 7/16 bolt and the later Motorola/Mando used a 3/8 bolt He'd probably also say "check out those shipping charges from MarinePartsExpress And he'd also say.......you'd better hoard a couple Gary (Gary S)  Hope somebody still has some to sell
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Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-15-2021 at 9:06am
So that's why I had to do a work around this winter when I found a cracked ear, I thought a south Florida engineer got there ahead of me  . My "supplier" doesn't know the difference between a pcm mount and a plumbing union but through the magic of facetime "I" was able to dig through my stash from 1500 miles away. Don't know why I transposed a R in place for a B either,maybe I should go to bed earlier but I do know my stash is already back up to full stock. If I was the OP though and wanted another now I'd call NP or Skidim and see what they could find. Are you saying Marine Parts makes up the prices on their shipping?
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: MurphyCO
Date Posted: July-15-2021 at 9:52am
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Nautique parts has responded to my complaint or questions, and want me to send photos. I will next time I can. They aren't aware any had the issue, so I responded: Basically the issue is that the replacement alternator pushes the pulley out of alignment which skews the belt, and I fear it will shorten the life of the belt, along with an annoying squeak when the engine is started. I first used the bushing that comes with the alternator, and it pushed the pulley way forward. I was able to use a much thinner bushing that came off the old alternator which makes the alignment better, but I still need the pulley back about 3/16" or so to be in line with the other pulleys. It's noticeable when viewed from the top. Several of the guys on CorrectCraft Fan forum have had the same issue, and suggested I will have to nibble away the bracket on the engine side and place washer(s) on the opposite side to force the alternator back, correcting the alignment. I was looking for a replacement mounting bracket to do "surgery" so I have a backup, but apparently there are none to be found anywhere. Alternator works great, I just fear the belt really will not last in the current mis-aligned state. |
Posted By: MurphyCO
Date Posted: July-15-2021 at 9:54am
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Response from Phil at Nautique Parts: Hey Gary, (At least they are willing to listen and understand!) |
Posted By: CW757
Date Posted: July-18-2021 at 12:49pm
| Hi I just put one on my 98 SAN. Fit was good. So with the included pulley spacer it is to short? If that is the case I would just shim it. Look at a good hardware store or auto parts store. I would not mess with the bracket unless it is a last resort! Mount it up and then shim the pulley until it is aligned. Cheap and solid fix! |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-18-2021 at 6:27pm
I think you should re read the thread, he needs things moved back, new spacer was too long and so is the old one and no spacer would have the pulley hitting the alternator.
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Posted By: MurphyCO
Date Posted: July-25-2021 at 1:30pm
Posted By: MurphyCO
Date Posted: July-25-2021 at 1:39pm
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So I ordered a replacement bracket that I can butcher to attempt to move the alternator back. I also did some checking on the installation to see if maybe I installed the pulley backwards (didn't, made no difference which way it was installed plus it was painted with the engine the correct way, and the way I re-installed). Checked to see if the alternator brackets were shimmed or adjustable, and they are not. I took some photos to show how much the alignment misses....it appears to be close to 3/16" or so. And this is with a bushing that is thinner than the one supplied by NP. If you remove the bushing , of course the pulley will rub on the alternator but the alignment would be just about right with the pulley, Only one explanation, the alternator sticks out further than the one it replaces. For the record, I have not replaced the other pulleys either, and they all look original at least with the paint. I bought a couple of replacement belts to keep in the boat so I could do an emergency replacement on the water, at least till I get the problem solved. I'll attempt to post the photos next. |
Posted By: MurphyCO
Date Posted: July-25-2021 at 2:10pm
  
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Posted By: MurphyCO
Date Posted: July-25-2021 at 2:17pm
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So maybe you can tell from the photos what's going on. The wooden straightedge aligned with the alternator pulley causes a gap of about 3/16 " at the lower pulley. Conversely, the other photo shows the straightedge alighted with the lower pulley which then aligns with the belt notch on the alternator pulley and not the outside of the lower pulley, off at least the thickness of the alternator pulley flange. The left photo of the bushings is the factory supplied one. I used a thinner one from the old alternator which helped the issue. Had I used the left bushing in the photo the problem would be exacerbated. I wonder if I got the wrong alternator? NP says they have installed many and never had this issue. I'm sending the photos to them, they at least agreed to help. Gary
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Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-25-2021 at 3:41pm
I'm going to start by saying I don't have a 100 amp mine are just the originals. But your missing your fan,I believe it goes on first then the spacer then the pulley? Don't know if that makes a difference in your case or not. Here are the two I have   ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: MurphyCO
Date Posted: July-25-2021 at 4:19pm
The original alternator did have a fan, the new one does not. However, that would only move me in the wrong direction and the pulleys wouldn't be anywhere close to aligning, and the shaft does not extend out far enough. Barely enough room for the pulley and the bolt and a couple of threads showing now. Don't believe that's the issue, but thanks for the suggestion! Gary
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Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-25-2021 at 4:50pm
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The fans are there for cooling your alternator, a 100 AMP is going to need a lot more cooling than a 50 AMP alternator so I would call and ask why it is missing a fan. I have seen some that are cooled by engine coolant but never seen one with no cooling fan at all. Is there room to add spacers and move the alternator back towards the engine? Hope you figure it out. Mark ------------- |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-25-2021 at 5:08pm
The alternator is one of them there new fangled ones from this century and has internal fans in it
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Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-25-2021 at 5:25pm
I can tell from the photos that everything you're thinking and saying is right, in my mind. Like mentioned in the previous post. the fans are inside the alternator.
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Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-25-2021 at 5:32pm
If all else fails and you have to resort to butchery, I'd take 3/16 off where the green circle is and put 3/16 of an inch worth of washers where the blue arrow is
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Posted By: MurphyCO
Date Posted: July-25-2021 at 7:33pm
  
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Posted By: MurphyCO
Date Posted: July-25-2021 at 7:38pm
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Keno, thanks, I intend to do surgery on a new bracket soon as it comes in. And yes, the new alternator has internal cooling fan blades. In the two pictures above you can see that even some thinner bushings might solve the issue - the large one came with the alternator, but using it plus any of the 3 different sizes I have is still too thick, and leaving the large one out and replacing with two smaller ones almost....just almost works but the pulley scrubs on the alternator housing. Frustrating. I did buy a couple of replacement belts today for insurance and the kid ( they all look like they're 12 to me) at the auto parts store said I could get bushings from Fastenal. Might check that out. Thanks for all the help. Gary
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Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: July-25-2021 at 9:50pm
Add between the 2 thinner bushings a flat washer or fender washer, might just shim it out enough to not rub. Just guessing, altering the bracket is likely the better solution, but this would be easy to try. i always have spare belts with me. And though others here may cringe, a slight misalignment on an alternator belt is unlikely to snap the belt. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: July-25-2021 at 10:07pm
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Well we have to learn something every day! Now if I can remember the lesson.🥸 ------------- |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-25-2021 at 10:51pm
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I just had my "finals". I'm done learning- I'm taking the rest of the summer off. But for extra credit could you use the large diameter spacer and trim down one of the smaller diameter ones by 3/16" ? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-18-2024 at 12:42pm
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Since you're still looking for a bracket and I don't know if you got one from TRBenj in his parts thread, I thought I'd post an alternate way to line things up. The quote below is from the parts thread, updating the situation.
You may think "is this guy off his rocker or something" , he wants me to hack up my alternator, but here goes.......... Instead of performing surgery on the bracket, do the surgery on the lower mounting ear, boss or whatever you want to call it on the alternator. For example, say you cut off 1/4 inch from the back of the boss, you'll be able to slide the alternator back 1/4 inch and use washers, to take up the gap in the front or use washers front and rear as necessary to get the alternator right where you want it. I did this fairly recently with a different brand alternator from a different outfit to get it lined up right. You'd have a choice of tools to shorten the alternator boss, like a 4 1/2 inch angle grinder, a hacksaw, a belt sander etc. All things that a typical backyard hack might have hanging around Me, I like my angle grinder for "precision machining" like this It's easier than modifying the bracket and if you take extra off, you use washers front and rear to get it just right as mentioned above.
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Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-18-2024 at 1:06pm
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Your alternator before the pulley swap in the picture Shorten the ear where the blue arrow is pointing 
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Posted By: MurphyCO
Date Posted: June-18-2024 at 1:15pm
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Posted By: Tomrupp
Date Posted: June-18-2024 at 9:05pm
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My pulley is crooked too. Angle grinder is one of my favorite tools. Thanks for the suggestion. ------------- Tom 94 Ski Nautique Open Bow 351 with Carb 95 Double Decker Aqua Patio with 50hp Honda (3 carbs). |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-10-2024 at 8:31am
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There I was, playing with an alternator yesterday and I thought of this thread So was the surgery successful or did you kill the patient or maybe postpone the job?
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Posted By: MurphyCO
Date Posted: July-10-2024 at 9:08am
Postponed surgery for now; grandkids wouldn't let me turn the engine off long enough during the holiday. I'll get back on it soon and report in. Thanks! Gary
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Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-10-2024 at 10:14am
| Wow you couldn’t turn it off since July 2021 your gas bill must be huge.🤣 |