Buick/Universal Sabre + Super Sabre
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5003
Printed Date: November-30-2024 at 12:16pm
Topic: Buick/Universal Sabre + Super Sabre
Posted By: 63 Skier
Subject: Buick/Universal Sabre + Super Sabre
Date Posted: October-15-2006 at 10:36pm
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My '63 has the Buick V6 Sabre, 198 cu. in. making 130 HP. I see some of the mid '60's boats with the Super Sabre, listed as 225 cu. in. and 155 HP. Was this the same basic engine or completely different? I'm curious if its just a stroked version of mine or if there is more to it.
Not that I think I could bring myself to do much of anything to my engine, but I'm curious. If there was an easy way to make a few more HP I'd consider it, I'm a few lbs. heavier than I used to be! ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Replies:
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-16-2006 at 7:33am
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there use to be an all aluminum v8 i remember in 1962 or so i believe it was clled the nail head, i dont know much about it, i just remember an aluminum block that early on ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: October-16-2006 at 10:54am
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My 1963 Buick manual shows the 198 in. V6 and a 215 in. V8, the V6 with cast block and V8 with aluminum block. The several boats in the diaries section with the Super Sabre show it as a 225 in. V6, and the engine pics look very similar to mine which made me curious. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Cape Cod CC
Date Posted: October-17-2006 at 9:39pm
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Both of these V6s are based on the Buick 225 V8 “Nail Head”. It just has two cylinders cut off.
The 198 had a bore of 3.63 and stroke of 3.20, on the 225 the bore was increased to 3.75 and stroke to 3.40, increasing displacement to 225. I also read online that there are very few interchangeable parts between the two engines even though they are based on the same block. An interesting thing about these motors is that they are odd fire so even when perfectly tuned they run rough at idle. With 6 cylinders you would think that it would fire on increment of 60 degrees but they fire on 45 and 90 degree increments. This was later changed by Buick in the mid 70s and it became an even fire engine. A friend of mine just bought a 67 CC Skylark so I have recently learned quite a bit about this engine. You could of course get a 225 and put it in your boat. I would think the exhaust manifolds would be the same, but there may be other compatibility issue you run into. Vince ------------- Cape Cod http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1175&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1980&yrend=1980 - 1980 SN |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: October-18-2006 at 3:01pm
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Thanks Vince, that's some great info. I've read about odd fire motors and didn't realize I have one. I have to say it idles pretty smooth, no complaints there.
If my engine ever has major problems maybe I'd look at the 225 as a replacement. When I was skiing a lot, 15-20 years ago, I was running the boat so hard on a weekly basis that I just a$$umed the engine would blow up at some point. Instead it has run steady and strong with very minor repairs needed since I've owned it. Here's a picture of my engine: 
Here's a picture of the 225 Super Sabre from the diaries section: 
The engines look very similar. Its surprising that there would not be a lot of sharing of parts between them. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: October-18-2006 at 3:02pm
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Oops, I guess I didn't post my picture correctly, I'll see if I can figure out how. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: October-18-2006 at 4:54pm
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I'll try again, hopefully this works.
Here's a picture of my engine: 
Here's a picture of the 225 Super Sabre from the diaries section:
I do notice the 225 has the alternator mounted high and a different oil filter location. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Cape Cod CC
Date Posted: October-19-2006 at 10:27pm
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It is surprising that many of the parts do not interchange. I think what I was reading pertains to internal parts, perhaps heads and intake as well. From the outside they look very similar and I would suspect that the marinized parts are the same.
There is something about these old Buick V6s that I like. They are just neat motors. Vince ------------- Cape Cod http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1175&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1980&yrend=1980 - 1980 SN |
Posted By: 63 Skier
Date Posted: October-19-2006 at 10:51pm
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I agree, very neat motors. I'm impressed that this motor designed in the '50's or early '60's can be run for over 40 years with tons of time over 3500 rpms loaded down with a skier and just keep ticking. Beyond normal tune-up parts I've had to replace the fuel pump and rebuild the transmission (lost reverse), other than that its all original. Not bad for a bunch of guys with slide rules. ------------- '63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique |