shaft/shaft log misaligned after strut bearing rpl
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=51085
Printed Date: November-22-2024 at 9:36am
Topic: shaft/shaft log misaligned after strut bearing rpl
Posted By: Ginovv
Subject: shaft/shaft log misaligned after strut bearing rpl
Date Posted: April-07-2023 at 5:14pm
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I have a BFN 94' V-drive 351w. The shaft was misaligned in the shaft log and the strut bearing had also some play in it. So I decided to replace the bearing and do the rest aswel (connecting hose, new shaft packing etc). I took out the strut and replaced the bearing with Skidim's vesconite ones. one at the beginning and one at the prop end. I assembled the strut back on the boat, just to see how it would be. Because I already felt that there was a lot of play when it was on the workbench. I contacted Skidim, they said it was normal for the vesconite ones, strange but ok. So i assembled it and now the shaft wont go in the shaft log any more. It's almost 10mm (0.4 inch) misaligned. Reached out to Skidim again and they said I should use shim rings to align it back again. Because the old bearing was at the far propeller end, now it has less play to move towards the shaft log. The bearing is longer now since it has 2 pieces on each end, so I follow that theory. The question now is, should i really shimmy ring it? OR should I let a machine shop mill it? Hope the pictures are clear. https://ibb.co/8NbZ6pT" rel="nofollow">  https://ibb.co/Snx203H" rel="nofollow">  https://ibb.co/9cLDhm6" rel="nofollow">  https://ibb.co/QQG0Cst" rel="nofollow">  Here's a video I posted on youtube with the play https://youtube.com/shorts/YErFSFQ6Ny8?feature=share Thanks in advance Gino van Vroonhoven Belgium
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Replies:
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-08-2023 at 8:27am
Click on the link and read the couple of posts from Feb 7th 2023 and with a little practice you'll be posting your pictures.  http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49031&FID=7&PR=3&PN=2&title=adding-images-to-your-posts" rel="nofollow - link Maybe the strut is bent? Pictures will help
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Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: April-08-2023 at 7:08pm
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When I replaced my bent strut I had to use shims and sand the base for proper alignment, after 7 or 8 years since it is still good. Set it up correctly and you will be happy. There is no such thing as install a new strut and have perfect alignment unless you are off the charts lucky. It takes some work to get everything in proper alignment. Buy 15 or so Stainless washers, measure each for thickness using a mic and write the number on them with a sharpie. It helps when you start getting close to perfect alignment knowing how much you add and remove in washer thickness. The washers I purchased from the local ACE hardware varied a lot in thickness. which actually helped giving me options. I used a 4" belt sander with a medium grit sanding belt to modify the bottom of the strut and achieve proper angles. Still needed a couple washers to get it correct before glueing it in. The new parts just needed some work to get the boat ready for use. Takes time but necessary. ------------- |
Posted By: Ginovv
Date Posted: April-10-2023 at 2:23pm
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It was a busy weekend with Eastern here, sorry for the late reply! Thanks for you answer, I do think this will be the fastest/easiest and cheapest option. The other option would be to make a ''bed'' with polyester/fiberglass but I haven't worked with that before. Did you only put washers around the bolts or did you place them around the surface of the strut? I'm just afraid that the tension/pressure won't be equally divided when using washers. What do you guys think? PS: I edited my first post and put photo's and a link to a video on youtube. Gino
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Posted By: Wilhelm Hertzog
Date Posted: April-10-2023 at 5:18pm
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I built a new bed for my strut using stainless steel washers and two part epoxy putty to get alignment right some time ago. Has held up well so far, and was pretty easy to do. ------------- 1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: April-10-2023 at 7:38pm
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The factory used the 5200 bedding compound which dries up pretty darn hard. Many advise using the 4200 which is softer and easier to remove if you ever need to. Since you are using washers to create the proper angles I would use the 5200 and not worry at all but do not apply the 5200 unless you have set up your strut and absolutely know you have the correct angle determined for final install. The washers go between the strut and the fiberglass bottom of the boat. In my case the front of the strut would not allow me to get the correct angle so I thinned it a lttle at an angle using a 4" floor sander. I bet I removed 1/8" of the strut at an angle front to rear and still used a couple washers on the rear to get the right angle to the transmission. I think the coupling ended up at .001 or .0015 off of perfect so it was in spec. ------------- |
Posted By: Greg_SA
Date Posted: April-11-2023 at 7:03am
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I did the same - stainless washers on one side and build up a bed of epoxy. Then fitted strut with 4200 as far as I can remember. ------------- 1989 Ski Nautique (SN2001) |
Posted By: Mpost
Date Posted: April-11-2023 at 9:28am
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https://www.youtube.com/shorts/YErFSFQ6Ny8" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/shorts/YErFSFQ6Ny8 That looks like way too much gap with the new strut bearing. Is your shaft worn in that spot? It alomost looked like at the end of the video when you pushed the shaft further in it got tighter??? ------------- 84 SN Sold 98 SN Lund Pro V 1975 Alumacraft |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: April-11-2023 at 11:35am
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When trying to align the shaft in the boat keep in mind the shaft will sag at the engine. This is normal. You need to lift at the connection to the transmission and turn the shaft, There is a sweet spot where the drag is the least, I cut a short 2x4, maybe 4-5 inches long and cut a V at the end of this piece of wood, the floor slopes so you can slide the 2x4 forward or aft so it lifts slightly on the shaft. While moving it back and forth keep rotating the shaft till you find the spot where the shaft has the least amount of drag. Once you know what position the happy spot check to see how close it is to properly connect to the transmission coupling. if the happy spot is too far off to adjust the engine into alignment you have to shim the strut till you are close enough to mate proper with the transmission coupling. If your shaft is not centered to the sweet spot you will create wear in your new strut bearings. You want to get the strut very close to perfect before adjusting the engine at all. Depending on where you place your washers you can move the shaft up and down or left and right to get close. ------------- |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-11-2023 at 1:01pm
After seeing the video. I'll say the same thing as Mpost. Trying to install/ align the shaft with that much wobble/clearance would be pretty much a waste of your time You should have a few thousandths difference between the shaft OD and the bushing ID. About .005 ish would be good with your 1/1/8 inch shaft |
Mpost wrote:Posted By: Ginovv
Date Posted: April-13-2023 at 3:08pm
Thanks for all your comments and advice, really appreciate this forum! @keno I just tried to put the shaft somewhere where it would be still and try to recreate the situation it is in underneath the boat. On the transmission side I have measured with feeler gauges a maximum of 0.18mm (0.00708 inch) difference between them. On the propeller side it is less and only 0.1mm (0.00393 inch) difference. https://ibb.co/BZSkrwR" rel="nofollow">  I only took hold of the strut now and moved it up/.down/left/right and measured around. I also put it at the position where I think the strut will be on the shaft when it is installed underneath the boat. I got around 17 cm (6,7 inch) from end strut to end of the shaft. The blue line shows how far the prop goes. Above someone mentioned that the strut would be tighter when slided further, it seems that it gets thinner around the end of the strut, transmission side. Obviously there was never a bearing there before, so it might dragged against the strut itself. PS: you can't really see on the picture, but the strut is hanging/hovering above the desk. I'm over 0.002 inch of what you would say is acceptable, it this also acceptable?  Would save me ALOT of money, but I also want what's best for our boat, which has been in our family since my father bought it. Next year 30 year anniversary  Let me know what you guys think. Thanks! |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-13-2023 at 5:56pm
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Here's a link to a thread with a picture of typical prop to strut distance and some measurements. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50679&PID=606013&title=acme-644r-prop-on-92-barefoot-nautique#606013" rel="nofollow - link Your blue line looks quite a bit further away. Have you checked the shaft diameter where it rode on the original bushings to see if it's 1.125 inches (28.575mm) or how much less it might be? Onlineconversion.com was my helper for the metric number If the shaft doesn't have much wear, I'd probably talk to SkiDim / OJ and give them the measurements of the slop and ask them to send you a new set of bushings on their dime You're not the first one to have this problem and OJ customer service is great. They've sent out free replacements to others with the same issue. And if all else fails, give it a whirl, as a last resort if you're trying to keep costs down. PS............... SkiDim says the slop is normal before the bushing is put into the strut and it tightens up the bushing ID when it'd installed. Did your bushing go in real easy or was it a real tight fit? Their words in the link below http://skidim.com/glide-marine-strut-bearings-1-1-8in-x-1-1-2in.html" rel="nofollow - link
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Posted By: Ginovv
Date Posted: April-17-2023 at 3:46pm
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Here are some pictures I took today. The strut was indeed to far away and the 1.38 inch measurement was correct from that other post. Shaft at blue line transmission side 1.108 inch https://ibb.co/Bf3gn8k" rel="nofollow">  Shaft at black line prop side 1.114 inch https://ibb.co/8mrGx4T" rel="nofollow">  The bushing is also pretty large, I don't know if this is in spec. Bushing transmission side average 1.136 inch Bushing prop side average 1.138 inch https://ibb.co/0hMvBHB" rel="nofollow">  https://ibb.co/XxqJFZ5" rel="nofollow">  I measured the same procedure again with the feeler gauges and the results were the same. 0.18mm (0.007 inch) prop side and 0.10 mm (0.003 inch) transmission side. So would you consider this a lot of wear on the shaft? Or is the bushing out of spec? The bushing went in easy but we used a press so can't tell you how much pressure was used. I got the shim rings today, so I put the strut on the boat to see how much we needed. It's a lot... probably around 0.2-0.3 inch (6-7mm) I don't know if I should be using shim rings now, since the gap is so big. Would a wedge maybe be better? 7mm prop side and 2mm transmission side made out of stainless steel? Every time I get a step further I feel like going 2 steps back the next time. It's demotivating.... https://ibb.co/48jt1p3" rel="nofollow">  Thank you for all your help so far! |
Posted By: Wilhelm Hertzog
Date Posted: April-17-2023 at 4:05pm
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Build a new base for the strut with thickened epoxy or epoxy putty. I had to shim my strut a similar amount to get proper alignment. Cover the strut base and mounting bolts in plastic (I used packaging tape). Insert the bolts through the bolt holes in the strut base and slide the required number of shims/washers over the bolts. Cover the base and shims with an appropriate amount of epoxy paste/putty, then install the strut, tightening it down properly. The epoxy should squeeze out slightly on all sides of the strut. Clean off all epoxy paste/putty that squeezed out. Leave until the epoxy has set. Once the epoxy has set, remove the strut and bolts (the plastic should ensure an easy release), remove the plastic covering on the strut and bolts, and then re-install on the newly created epoxy base using 4200/5200/your favourite polyurethane adhesive sealant. ------------- 1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-17-2023 at 6:50pm
| I'd say your shaft is worn excessively and your bushing ID is too big also. |
Posted By: Ginovv
Date Posted: April-18-2023 at 2:37pm
Just got a email back from Skidim Hello Gino, Or push the 2 of them to the middle of the strut, where the bore is probably best. Gino
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Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: April-18-2023 at 5:23pm
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I'd return it and get the "old tech" rubber in a brass sleeve that are bound to be tighter. Main reason I say that is because of the excess wear on the shaft and you seem to be wanting to stick with the original shaft. That should reduce the slop some. A new shaft would be the best thing, but that's up to you. |
Posted By: Ginovv
Date Posted: May-29-2023 at 2:33pm
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Hi guys just an update; I made a new bed out of thickened epoxy just like you guys advised me. So thank you! I first measured with stainless steel washers how much I needed to add. After we knew how much, which was 4 mm on the aft and 1 mm on the other side, we then prepared everything to work with the epoxy. We still used the washers to align and make sure we have the correct thickness.. I first cleaned the bottom with aceton and removed all the silicone from the previous re-installation. https://ibb.co/hsZkwnY" rel="nofollow">  https://ibb.co/wL903Rc" rel="nofollow">  Then I put on a first layer with a paint brush of unthickened epoxy. https://ibb.co/ZhXDHj5" rel="nofollow">  I made preparations and mixed the unthickened epoxy with ''Aerosil'' and cotton fiber. According to Mr Boat epoxy (a Dutch company) I had to make sure it had a thickness of peanutbutter (Pindakaas). https://ibb.co/m8CpKv6" rel="nofollow">  They also said that if I want to remove the strut from the base in the future, I should wrap the strut and bolts in packing tape, so the epoxy doesn't attach to it. https://ibb.co/zrFDZJ0" rel="nofollow">  Used the washers on the bolts and put the nuts on the inside (bilge) just so the strut hangs and doesn't fall. Now we put the thickened epoxy in a piping bag and pushed everything in between the strut and the prepared base. We secured all the bolts afterwards and with the correct amount of washers in place, we knew we had the correct angle. We used some paper towel with aceton to clean as much we could, because a lot came out after securing the bolts. https://ibb.co/RPrXmzQ" rel="nofollow">  Cleaned up some more with aceton 3 days later and here you go  Like mentioned before, I used the 3M 5200 to seal it, I smeared it around the base and around the bolts a little bit. Thank you for the help guys! https://ibb.co/LhRTqBV" rel="nofollow">  also how do I adjust this type of engine mount? Loose the nut just above the trunnion and then turn the top square nut? https://ibb.co/jgQD8Zn" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Wilhelm Hertzog
Date Posted: May-29-2023 at 4:33pm
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Nice job on the strut base, and yes, that is how you adjust engine height. ------------- 1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: May-29-2023 at 6:10pm
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Before setting up your strut shims make sure your shaft is in the happy position where it rotates the most freely. If the shaft is not connected, just hanging loose int he boat it may sag more than 1”. You raise the front of the shaft at the tranny connection until you feel the least drag on your shaft while you rotate by hand. Now you need to create a cradle that will support the shaft in the Happy position and start aligning everything to the shaft. If your strut bushing is loose I think you are not ready to start alignment. My 95 strut was off quite a bit but it had been hit on a log. I had to sand the base at an angle with a 4” belt sander, Angle sanding got me much closer to true but then I still needed one or two washers at the back to get it perfect. The belt sander actually worked really well to provide a flat surface at the angle I needed. Obviously you can’t thin the plate too much as it would be weaker. ------------- |