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How far do I go?

Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=51116
Printed Date: March-28-2024 at 5:22pm


Topic: How far do I go?
Posted By: JamoJones
Subject: How far do I go?
Date Posted: May-01-2023 at 11:33am
Hi All,

I picked up a basket case project, 1987 S/N 2001, Ford 351W & B/W 1:1 Velvet Drive, late last fall.  It came with a fresh long block, a rebuild by Marshall's Machine in Maine.  I got the original Ford block & heads back, all assembled and rebuilt.  it looks great.

Anyway, as I'm reassembling the add ons, just how far should I go on the engine stand?  It sure is easier there, but what should I leave off until I get it back in the boat?  I'd have to hang it by chains if the Velvet drive goes on first. Not sure if the weight of the exhaust manifolds will make things worse?

BTW: I got all the parts in cardboard boxes, with most bolts labeled as to where they go.  Still takes time to see what fits where, what bolts go where, etc.  I do have a decent book for Ford small blocks, and that does give good info on bolt lengths, torques, etc.  The engine overheated as to why the rebuild, so I'm replacing anything and everything to do with cooling.

Thanks for any advice you can offer.  I've only messed with old inboard Century's and Lyman's to date...other than rebuilding several woody Lightning sailboats.

Jamo



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1986 Silver Nautique #49 of 82
1987 Ski Nautique 2001



Replies:
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-01-2023 at 1:15pm
PCM says the engine, transmission and manifolds weigh about 860 pounds so assuming you can safely lift 1000 pounds (for a little overkill) up and into the boat, here's what I'd do.

I'd put on everything that you can on the engine stand, except the carburetor and alternator then hook your chain to the engine and lift it off the stand, lower it to floor level, leave the chain attached and block the engine so it doesn't want to move

I usually leave the carburetor and alternator off off so I don't accidentally damage them  with the lifting chain etc.

Then put on the flywheel and damper plate, followed by the bellhousing and then the 95 ish pound transmission.

It's easier to put the transmission on while you're sitting on the floor, guiding it into place.

Then put on the exhaust manifolds and all 4 engine/transmission mounts if that wasn't already done on the stand,

Now you can lift the whole thing into the boat and set it down and save yourself from muscling the transmission and manifolds into the boat and working in a tight area putting them on 

Somebody else might do it differently but this works for me Wink

Here's a PCM page showing various engine weights from the late 80's with manifolds and transmission.

https://ibb.co/G0JwQdv" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: JamoJones
Date Posted: May-01-2023 at 1:33pm
Thanks Keno,

Yes, I can lift that much with my overhead.  I like the idea of the floor cradle, so I'll work one up.  Three of my motor mounts are still mounted in the boat, one is out, with the parts.  Not sure why, but it it best to remount the whole mess with the motor mounts on the engine?  I kind of figured they (3 hull mounted) were where they were supposed to be (or close), so that might be a good thing??  I guess they would be the same configuration anyway, so to the block with them...

I've had plenty of problems getting info (including title) out of the PO.  He lost his interest and then his shirt on the project when I came along.  He set the price and I paid him on the spot, so not my problem.  He paid to have the engine rebuilt, broke off a couple bolts at reassembly, and just wanted out.  I have since resolved the title issue and have the boat in my name.  I was hesitant to start buying parts until I owned it.  All is good, I'm learning a lot, and best of all, I'm having fun.

Thanks again.  Great group here...

Jamo


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1986 Silver Nautique #49 of 82
1987 Ski Nautique 2001


Posted By: JamoJones
Date Posted: May-01-2023 at 1:36pm
Also...how do I determine the rotation?  I always thought 87's were reverse, but Joe at Marshall Machine thought normal by his paperwork. I have no paperwork.   I guess I could check starter rotation and go from there?

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1986 Silver Nautique #49 of 82
1987 Ski Nautique 2001


Posted By: JamoJones
Date Posted: May-01-2023 at 1:48pm
I'll try a couple pics...




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1986 Silver Nautique #49 of 82
1987 Ski Nautique 2001


Posted By: JamoJones
Date Posted: May-01-2023 at 1:53pm
Only let me do one??




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1986 Silver Nautique #49 of 82
1987 Ski Nautique 2001


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-01-2023 at 3:58pm
The mounts are easier before it goes in the boat, as compared to lining the engine up between the mounts and then getting the bolts in especially the transmission bolts.

As far as rotation your engine is meant to turn, originally it was Reverse. 

As far as determining if it was rebuilt that way, Is your distributor installed right now or still out of the engine?

After that's answered we'll get to the next things to look at Wink


Posted By: JamoJones
Date Posted: May-01-2023 at 5:01pm
Distributor is out, but with the parts.  It looks like I have the electronic ignition too, so I'l assuming that's a good thing.
I will bolt up all mounting bolts to the engine & tranny before installation.
Joe at Marshall's seems to think it was not a reverse rotation when he rebuilt it.  That would be a major concern if not?  Would their be a different camshaft?  I'd think he would know at tear down what he had, and I guess he does a lot of marine Fords from what he said. 

Guess I should look at my prop to, eh?

Thanks Keno, I sure appreciate the help...

Jamo


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1986 Silver Nautique #49 of 82
1987 Ski Nautique 2001


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-01-2023 at 5:27pm
Post a picture of the distributor gear and that'll tell whether it's for a Reverse or Normal rotation engine.

If the teeth slant like this ////////// it's for a Normal rotation engine

If the teeth slant like this \\\\\\\\\ it's for a Reverse rotation engine

That'll tell you what the original engine was, but just to be sure what you have now, try installing the distributor. If it goes in and seats on the block, it means it meshed properly with the camshaft gear.

If you can't get it to mesh at all and there's about a half inch or so distance to the block, it means that the cut of the teeth on the cam and the distributor are backwards from each other

The camshaft gear on a Normal rotation cam and a Reverse rotation cam are cut backwards from each other and that's why the distributor gears are backwards from each other

You may have to do a little wiggling and rotating to get the gear in if it starts to mesh. No big hammers allowed Wink

You can find YouTube videos on Small Block Ford distributor installation

I wouldn't worry about proper timing right now, just call it a practice test fit to see if the gears mesh, meaning that your new engine camshaft and old distributor are both  for the same rotation.




Posted By: JamoJones
Date Posted: May-01-2023 at 7:34pm
I've had the distributor in and it does mesh with a twist, and does seat all the way in.

I just went out and checked, from the front, my teeth are \\\\\\.  Guess I have the RR engine.  I've rolled it over by hand and no valves hit, so must be OK?  I'll have a look at the prop tomorrow.  CC or CCW looking from the stern?

Thanks again Keno...

Jamo


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1986 Silver Nautique #49 of 82
1987 Ski Nautique 2001


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-01-2023 at 8:23pm
Sounds like you're right, you have a RR (reverse rotation) engine

Turns over good.............that's a good thing

Prop turns clockwise from the back

In case you're buying a new starter, make sure you get one for a Reverse rotation engine, ask here on CCF if you're confused because people buy the wrong starter quite a bit.



Posted By: JamoJones
Date Posted: May-20-2023 at 5:24pm
Got it.  Thanks Keno

Next questions:

I have the transmission on (B-W 1:1 Velvet drive), and should I be able to rotate the flange when the splines are locked in?  Makes no difference F-N-R, still spins freely.  I'm hoping I'm not missing something between the splines as it went together.

Also, what is the white porcelain looking block above the breaker at the top of the tranny?  It has some cracks, and also has a jumper wire between the terminals (in addition to the harness wiring), which leads me to believe there was a problem and the block got bypassed?  

And...I'm trying to get my steering cable out as I think it's seized from sitting.  I pulled the pin behind the dash and can't get it to release??  Set up from sitting or am I missing something?

Thanks again guys...sure appreciate the help...

Jamo


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1986 Silver Nautique #49 of 82
1987 Ski Nautique 2001


Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: May-20-2023 at 7:59pm
The coupling rotating by hand whether the local selector is in Forward, Neutral or Reverse like you describe is perfectly normal with the engine not running.

The pump which develops the pressure to engage the Forward or Reverse clutches need to be turning to develop any pressure.

With the engine turning the input shaft to the transmission, the pump is turning putting out 135 ish psi and with the shift lever in Neutral, no pressure is supplied to the Forward or Reverse plates When you shift to Forward, pressure is then supplied to the Forward plates and the boat goes Forward. Shift to Reverse and the Reverse plates engage

The link below is to a Borg Warner manual in the CCF reference section and gives a good description of the theory of operation.  Your transmission is probably a Borg Warner 10-17 which is just a later version of the 71C and works the same.

http://www.correctcraftfan.com/downloads/Velvet_Drive_71C-72C_Transmission_Service_Manual.pdf" rel="nofollow - link

You mentioned earlier that you had electronic ignition and most electronic setups bypass the ballast resistor. That would be the white thing you're describing with the jumper wire bypassing around it.

For the steering cable, disconnect the cable back at the tiller arm and remove the cable from the support tube and with your pin/nut  pulled at the helm spin the wheel and the cable should spin right out of the helm.(if you have a pin to disconnect the cable at the helm, your helm and/or cable has been replaced at some time in the past)

There are a good number of threads on cable replacement here on CCF. Make sure you're reading about an 82-89 cable replacement on a rotary steering system

With your rotary system, you pull the cable out of the boat from the rear with a long rope securely tied/taped to the front

When the cable is out you then tie/tape the end of the rope to the new cable and use the rope to pull the new one forward.

And...........since you have an 87, you get the "opportunity" to spend some extra money on a replacement cable only available through a CC dealer so that you maintain the proper amount of rudder throw.

You can do a search or just ask here again about the right cable or a good thread to refer to Wink




Posted By: JamoJones
Date Posted: May-21-2023 at 11:29am
Thanks Keno,
Heading out to spend the day with the boat.  On the hard, not quite ready for a dip...Ha...


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1986 Silver Nautique #49 of 82
1987 Ski Nautique 2001


Posted By: wayoutthere
Date Posted: May-21-2023 at 6:13pm
https://ibb.co/dk3X0mk" rel="nofollow">

If you have a welder or a friend with one you could make a stand. I had to make and put it on a furniture dolly so the engine could be rolled under the crane for installation.

Good luck with your project, looks real nice.

Uh-oh wot can post pics again !


Posted By: JamoJones
Date Posted: May-22-2023 at 12:45pm
Thanks WOT,

I  rigged up an old roller I had kicking around so I could move it around the barn too.  Yours is a much nicer height, but I got everything bolted up until it was tranny time.  The carb is just sitting on top to see what goes where.  I picked this up basically as a boat in a box with no help from the PO.  Just winging it with plenty of help from Ron Tanis videos and Ron himself.
I'll try to post a pic...







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1986 Silver Nautique #49 of 82
1987 Ski Nautique 2001



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