Ford Interceptor 312 Y-block reverse rotation.  This setup substitutes 2 constant-mesh gears for the timing chain. There is a particular way to set the marks on the gears, and I'm hoping someone knows...thanks.

Call Nautique Parts.com and ask for our old friend Woody, ill bet he knows something about it.

910-247-6201

The 292 timing chain set up is odd.  the sprocket marks both face the Left side of the engine on set up and the chain has 2 marks on it for alignment with the two sprockets.   The Gear Drive your unit uses may have an odd set up like the chain drive.  (left side in engine talk is always determined when you are standing behind the flywheel looking forward towards the front of the car.   So looking at the engine from the actual front the Left side would be on the RIGHT, looking from the front.

IF you happen to have the cam card for the cam in your engine you should be able to rotate the engine with the heads off but cam connected and use a micrometer to measure the actual cam lift in relation to the camshaft and work backwards to the proper timing set up.   Kind of like Dialing in the cam in reverse.  But you need the specs on the cam.  Any New Cam for a 292 or 312 should come with a cam card as a starting point.   Then of course you would need to know the reverse rotation firing order.  

There is a Ford Y Block Forum, Y Blocks Forever,  Maybe one of those members will have the information needed?   Best of luck.

Mark

Removed, inspected, the cam. It is in excellent condition. Lubed and reinstalled. 

The heads are still on but the valve train is out. Pressurized each cylinder just to check. Good.

So I've decided not to trust the timing marks on the gears, and bust out a degree wheel and dial indicator. 

Let's see what that yields...

Bakground-engine went together great. Lined up "0" mark on cam gear with TDC punch mark on crank gear. 

As I began installing pushrods and rockers, and setting lash, it became increasingly difficult to rotate. Had rockers on/off about 5 times. It was very hard to do a compression test, and with 8 park plugs in it wouldn't turn over at all....so....

Off cam the heads, touched up by machine shop, reinstalled, same result.

That's when I went hunting for 312 RR cam timing info with no luck. Made a couple phone calls (thanks again Keno) and got some tips, but still no definitive answers. So...

Still without a 'cam card', I gathered my dial indicator and degree wheel and ended up retarding the cam by one tooth. Reassembled, it cranks over now even with plugs in. It should run. Will double-check the valve timing events before I button it up and try to start. 

But we're moving the ball down the field.....

As of July 6:

I can’t think of anything else stopping your ability to rotate an engine spark plugs removed.

I think I would put the brakes on till you find a definite cam gear alignment.

Some like the dots to align with each other so one is at 12 am and one at 6 pm, others have you set the crank at 12 am and the cam at 12 am.    As Ken mentioned who knows what they decided on the 312 based on how goofy the timing chain sets up in that engine.   To be safe back off the rocker arms to close all valves while making any changes.  Plugs need to be out since all valves closed would be difficult to rotate..   I hope someone can give good advice on this timing mess.

But I still need some 215 hp Interceptor cam data. Either rotation will work.

Frustrating, and have the Tahoe Concourse in 4 weeks. 

Picture 

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/2da48ad2-c9a5-4dea-bbb3-8119.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/2da48ad2-c9a5-4dea-bbb3-8119.jpg

Where did you find a photo of the 292/312?

MourningWood wrote: Yeah, well so far what I DO know is that when I line up the crank gear 'dot' with the "0" mark on the cam gear it does not turn over. So I have to dismiss the marks and try my degree wheel. But I still need some 215 hp Interceptor cam data. Either rotation will work. Frustrating, and have the Tahoe Concourse in 4 weeks.

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic111087-1.aspx" rel="nofollow - http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic111087-1.aspx  

They could/should be able to give you something for cam data from their timing cards.

It looks like they'll (Melling) still grind 312 cams, so they must have all the valve timing info stashed away somewhere 

Whether you'll be able to get info for your particular cam....who knows, but probably worth a phone call.

PS I'd say to check with Bosboy302, but I think you'd be talking to yourself 

If your locking up look at what else you have done ? Dizzy, Oil pump, cam end float. 

Good luck hope its all sorted over the weekend. 

For what its worth the extra figure's that are no help..

You're right about that

But at least we're all trying  

First, I never would have come this far without all the help given here. Many, many thanks. 

When I heard from Delta Cams that they had no info, and that the cam would have to be 'degreed in', that's what I did.

Essentially I ended up making my own 'cam card'...apparenty the only one in the world 

It was a process-engine together, engine apart,  together, apart, upside down, cam out, cam in, retard a tooth, advance a tooth, rockers on, rockers off---yada yada...

But during the degree-ing process I learned 3 important things:

1-only 12 degrees of valve overlap, (intake opens 7 degrees before TDC, exhaust closes 5 degrees ATDC ) making it appear that #1 was in firing position when in fact was in valve overlap, because...

2- when the timing marks line up correspondingly, #6 is actually in firing position....

3- I don't know as much about engines as I once thought.

Anyway, without water or charging system, just on the battery, I got it to fire up and run for a few seconds a couple of times. I feel confident to paint/finish reassembly and then run it in earnest before plopping it back in. 

Quite a journey. I'll get some pics up in a bit. Thanks again. 

The automotive normal rotation with it's 12 links between timing marks procedure also has #6 at TDC in firing position. Some other later much more popular engines have #6 in that position too when installing the cam/timing chain/gears.

None of us know as much as we probably think we do  

As you said earlier, moving the ball downfield..................... first and 10 on the opponents 30 yard line. 

Gotta score, a field goal won't do it.

As luck would have it, I reached out to the Lake Tahoe Concourse to check on my entry status....turns out I had completely forgotten to enter!! (that's what age 71 gets you)...

They put me #1 on waiting list...

Oh well, I can walk away from all this engine frustration for a while ...perverse relief.

The next day..."Congratulations, you're in"

F&%k me!!!  Back under the gun!

Sometimes irony can be pretty ironic!!

Got it all buttoned up, painted, even futzed with the carbs (YH Carters) because, well, they always need some futzin'. 

Put the hose to it, fired right up, runs and idles great!!  Ran about 10 min. No leaks. 

Pop it back in tomorrow. Tahoe here we go....

Now, if I can figure photos I'll get some up here...

Thanks again for all the support.

 

Hope the water test was good.

http://laketahoeconcours.com/" rel="nofollow - link

"Now Biff..."

"Sorry Mr. McFly. I mean just starting the second coat"

Edit:  Keept throwing me an error, Error Inserting in current location?  Finally on 4th try, after having to Re name the photo on each attempt because the system will not allow you to try twice with the same name.   No idea why it finally worked but glad it did.  This boat should be enjoyed by many.  Too bad we did not have more photos to add.  

Brian sent these 2 photos hoping I could get them to show for you guys.  ( should have sent them to Ken our resident expert )

Here ya go  

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For MrMcD.....a better view of the manifold and carburetor setup on a Y block with YH sidedraft carburetors.

One carburetor in the front and one in the rear.

If you have a bucket list, make sure that screwing around with Carter YH's isn't on that list.

I think Mourning Wood would agree 

One rotation coming right up 

Yes, he wood (SIC).  I might ad that if one does choose to work on Carter YH's that they don't drink or have a firearm within reach!!

Anyway, some others may find this info useful (or amusing).

There is very, very little good information about the reverse rotation Ford Y-block. Lot's of friendly advice but fewer with hands-on 'sperience'.

The cam (unique to the RR engine) is driven in the 'normal' direction by a direct gear-to-gear setup. This allows Ford to use the same crankshaft, rods, and most other engine internals. Even the distributor. Oil wicking is done through the rear main seal or crankshaft wick direction. (have seen both).

As for the cam itself, the reverse rotation results in a uniquely different firing order. I think that the other cam specs are very close, if not identical, to the standard rotation. Power output is the same...

Using a degree wheel (super fun!) and after multiple readings I came up with the following "cam card":

Expressed in more conventional terms (at .050" lift"):

INT open 5 ATDC, closes 37 ABDC. EX opens 40 BBDC, closes 7 BTDC.

( these were produced using a very accurate dial indicator w/ magnetic base)

In the end, the boat runs flawlessly, even the carbs behaved well at Tahoe elevation. (a preemptive jet change and throttle blade opening adjustment). Didn't even dump fuel out the aft carb all over the electrics. (anyone with one of these engines will understand that one).

And, that's it for 'One 'N Dun" show experience. Walk off with a trophy. Now my wife doesn't have to fear for her life should she spill a few drops of her favorite Pinot....

Time to pull some (younger) skiers, create some new memories with it.

Thanks all for the help on this, hope someone else can benefit from the info here.