Damler Chrysler
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URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5665
Printed Date: December-23-2024 at 12:47am
Topic: Damler Chrysler
Posted By: eric lavine
Subject: Damler Chrysler
Date Posted: February-05-2007 at 9:16am
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It sounds like another ones biting the dust, where i live there is talk of shutting down the Chrysler plant which employs thousands and drives Twinsburgs economy, It happened to LTV, it floods our economy with unemployed guys that are use to making $30.00 an hour or so and thery dont have back-up plans or other skills and wind up driving for Auto-zone in which there is nothing wrong with that.
Im going way out on a limb here and will probably piss someone off, Alot of my good friends are employed at Chrysler and were employed by LTV. and they are hard working guys (or they wouldnt be my friends) but there were alot of guys that robbed LTV blind and had guys punch in for them and not show and vica versa. In a way I feel sorry and in a way I dont, Its a f-in shame just my .02 ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Replies:
Posted By: reidp
Date Posted: February-05-2007 at 9:39am
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My .02 would have daggers flying all over this site, so I'll zip it, as I'm right with you on that Eric. By the way, what was LTV? ------------- ReidP /diaries/details.asp?ID=231&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 1973 Mustang |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-05-2007 at 9:49am
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sometimes the truth hurts Reid, LTV employed at one time 13,000 they were a steel manufacturer here in Cleveland.
Reid Im all for a man making a good living and he should be paid what he's worth. its the guys that took advantage of the situation and I truly believe the down fall of these large corporations is all tied to the employees, In desperate times you must take desperate measures. Another good example here in Cleveland the teachers are in the top 4% of income in the country... averege $38.00 per hour with 3 months off. you know nothing great comes from the inner city schools academically especially Cleveland school systems. there is 2 directions you can go......and things are going in the wrong direction..sorry to say ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: February-05-2007 at 10:08am
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I hear you guys. I know exactly what you're talking about. A number of years ago, I was installing a new phone system at the Chrysler plant in Kenosha, WI. This was the original AMC plant prior to Chrysler buying them out. I could tell you stories about employees taking advantage of the employer but like you said, that could really start some flying daggers by people who refuse to admit those actions probably caused the downfall of the company in the first place. I'm not saying the employer is always right either, look at Enron!!! I think those situations are far fewer than the former though. More problems we'll solve in a couple weeks I'm sure when we're tweeking JBears ride!!!!
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Posted By: reidp
Date Posted: February-05-2007 at 12:00pm
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Eric, My jury's out on the whole teacher issue as they're paid peanuts down here, and while working in a mini-Cleveland environment. You couldn't pay me $100/hr to "attempt" to teach some of these kids in some of these areas.
I am confident however that all the guys on this website MUST be overpaid judging by the amount of time spend online. Or, all of our companies are headed in the direction of LTV as a result of our decreased productivity. Holy crap, I better get back to work. ------------- ReidP /diaries/details.asp?ID=231&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 1973 Mustang |
Posted By: nates78ski
Date Posted: February-05-2007 at 12:29pm
I would never admit to being overpaid 
Nate ------------- Nathan http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1463&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - My '78 Ski Nautique <a href="http://photobucket.com/Nates78ski" rel="nofoll |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-05-2007 at 12:34pm
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Yeah, you definitly gotta point on the $100.00 an hour, I wouldnt either, there letting these kids fly thorough school some of them not knowing how to even read, Its to the point to where the kids are controlling the system and unfortunatly the teachers have to deal with it and it turns into a babysitting role and thier distracted because of the kids ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: February-05-2007 at 2:05pm
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I am one of the guys that would normally be throwing daggers when people complain about UAW workers. But no this time. I goto work everyday, I am here all day to my job when they need me too. One of the perks of my job is some free time in between jobs. But I paid for that free time. I spent time as an aprentice learning my trade and going to school for my trade. I am one of the first people to say that the UAW needs to help the companies get rid of the dead beats that don't come to work everyday. The ones that abuse the systems that were put in place to make sure you kept your job in cases of real illness or family/personal problems.
The abusers need to be fired. That way the people that take their job seriously still have a job and a way to support their families. ------------- |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-05-2007 at 4:43pm
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The unions have to work in the best interests for everyone in a way to also benefit the employer, they need to re-structure or eventually as it slowly happens with companies disolving so will the unions, at one time the unions were needed because of the abuse from companies in the 1930's, now its the other way around and these big decision makers say f-it will show em and move to more PROFITABLE countries along with the American dream.... just babbling and hate to see alot of good people lose jobs, ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: February-05-2007 at 8:03pm
| Babble away my friend!!!!! |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: February-05-2007 at 8:29pm
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Eddie; I used to run the phone system for a large school district west of Cleveland in Parma, Ohio. You wanna see waste! You should see them school admin guys. Beat auto or steel workers every day. Way more money swallowed up at the admin building on crazy projects than what went to the teachers and students.
It is sad to see what has happened to some of our "backbone" industries up north. Most of it is due to greed, and I don't mean by the Unions. I have long been a Union member and it has done well by me. Unions have given benefits and protections to people like me that otherwise would have never gotten these things on my own. No company, especially now-a-days, is gonna "give" anything to its workers. The workers have to fight for and earn these things. john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: February-05-2007 at 8:41pm
| I agree John. I was also a union member until I went into management so I know what you're talking about. I also believe the union protects the loafers like Eric and Reid attested to earlier. That part of it isn't right IMHO. I think there are people who take advantage of any system that is in place out there and that is what causes issues for everybody. Employers and employees alike. It just sucks. It's a cla$$ic example of just a few can ruin it for everybody. From either side of the fence. |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: February-05-2007 at 8:51pm
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Greed and laziness is not confined to either side of the fence. Bad guys on either side hurt us all as you say. Guys like youself or ReidP have a much better chance to see both sides of the story than a guy like myself who was just a worker all his career.
john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-06-2007 at 7:49am
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Maybe the union members have to start participating more, and start thinking different,put incentives in place, weed out the guys with the im in the union you cant touch us(im only saying this is cause i have a brother in law with this attitude, he does Delphi work.....for now) instead of thinking protect us why dont you help us, there are many laws in place to help and even protect the worker in non union shops, times have changed and the last thing these big corps want to do is pull out, but they have no choice. It just seems like the unions never budge in times of desperation ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: reidp
Date Posted: February-06-2007 at 11:21pm
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I promised earlier to zip my trap on this subject. I've never had a problem at all with the original goal and purpose of the union(s). I've worked with many IBEW guys over the years, but I a$$ure you these guys didn't fall into the negative ranks that were discussed above. My main disagreements have always been in the philosophy of promoting on seniority as opposed to merit and performance, and the inability for the worker to interact as closely with management. Of course I run a non-union shop, but there is very little union activity at all in the wireless side of telecom. It has and still exists mainly on the wireline side. Which brings me to the next factor of the union's impact on competition, which Eric hit upon in terms of sending jobs overseas to lower priced markets. On the wireless side of telecom for example, the competition abounds with at least 6 cellphone companies to choose from, so they have to keep the operating costs down. Until recently, you got your choice of only ONE land line provider, and the same with your power companies. Regulated companies can support the union mainly because of this.
While jbear stated that Eddie and myself may have been in a position to better see both sides of the story, I unfortunately have always seen a somewhat biased view living and working in one of the least unionized states in the country. So I could really be off base. I used to back my opinions with the fact that NC has traditionally had one of the lower unemployment rates in the nation, which I quite possibly mis-credited the lack of union activity. Another fact I soon found out later was that NC also has/had the 3rd highest number of mobile homes in the country. Possibly a result of a large percentage of the people working but at the lower non-union wages, I don't know, but a large number of large companies seek to locate here. This makes me think about that thought provoking thread some time back about our government and two party system. Whether the union issue outcome is positive or negative, our people, or majority thereof, ultimately choose to be unionized or not. That makes it acceptable to me. ------------- ReidP /diaries/details.asp?ID=231&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 1973 Mustang |
Posted By: reidp
Date Posted: February-06-2007 at 11:33pm
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One thing I forgot to ask. Does the union also sometimes keep the cream from rising to the top, or at least from being recognized and rewarded and compensated for same? If a guy working for me stands out, he gets recognized and sees it in his wallet. If he's a slacker, he gets what he deserves with no wall to hide behind. ------------- ReidP /diaries/details.asp?ID=231&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 1973 Mustang |
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: February-07-2007 at 12:32am
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reidp, your close with that last post. The company (Ford in this case) used to give us a bonus for coming up with money or time saving ideas. All you used to have to do to recieve this bonus was come up with and idea to save time or money and explain how it would work. Then the company would do the research and see if the idea held water. If it did, and the idea was used you got paid.
Now the company wants us to come up with the idea, tell them how it should work, research how much time or money it will save, research how much money or time it will take to put the idea to work, and research to find out if everyone likes the idea. For all this work that you have to do on your own time, you get wow thanks. Not that thanks isn't something, but some of the ideas we used to get from the line workers to make their job easier all went away because of this new system. I am not talking about large bonuses, just some thing to show gratitude. The lose of the idea program at are plant has affected moral greatly. They feel the company doesn't want to hear from them anymore. The slackers usually go unpunished and that affects moral also. I work with a guy that misses alot of work and it pisses me off something fierce. Sorry big rant there, but to some it up the company lost a lot of great ideas. I know there were some not so great ideas, but atleast people used to try. Now they don't. Alot has to do with no cooperation from the company. There will always be a barried between union and management so long as there are managers that think they can't learn from people that work for them. Not all are like this but I work for half a dozen like this. So Reidp, keep up the good work. Remember small jestures go along way. ------------- |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-07-2007 at 9:41am
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Its simple economics, if your child gets straight A's and you give him $50.00 for every A, he is deserving of it, and then you have your other child who gets all F's and your wife insists that he also gets $50.00 per F. the kid who gets the F's thinking to himself, hell I dont even have to try and Mom's getting me the same money, why should i try, my mom is protecting me from the wrath of my dad. Now would you allow this in your home, I sure wouldnt because eventually I'm gonna go broke.
These arent isolated instances with these companies closing doors, as i speak my brother in law is being knocked down to 32 hours a week, because the company is struggling and i really dont believe they are lying about the struggling, at one time i may have thought they were lying about struggling. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: nates78ski
Date Posted: February-07-2007 at 9:55am
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Wow! is this my Global Business Administration cla$$ or CCFAN? Thanks guys, now I'm not just wasting away my day on the site, i might actually be able to convince myself that im studying too...
Nate ------------- Nathan http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1463&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - My '78 Ski Nautique <a href="http://photobucket.com/Nates78ski" rel="nofoll |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-07-2007 at 2:19pm
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Nate, this is sh*t that they dont teach you in school ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: February-07-2007 at 3:43pm
Roger that Eric. When I was a manager I wanted to award a union overachiever with a raise, but the union scale wouldn't allow that. I was able to get around that by promoting him to a senior tech. I, of course had to justify it to the company and the union and the guy got a nice deserving raise. At the next contract negotiation, two other guys were promoted to senior techs just because the two other union departments in the branch didn't have senior techs. According to the union, if one dept. had a senior tech, every dept. needed a senior tech. These techs weren't promoted by merit but purely seniority. How fair is that? Now, you can take it a step further and try to rationalize why the company ended up downsizing and eliminating jobs. Mine being one of them. I'm sure that this one instance didn't cause the downfall of the organization, but this one and how many others like it sure had to contribute to it. Had I stayed in the field as tech, I would still probably be employed by them seeing as when I left the union, I was number three in seniority and that seniority would have protected me. Because I was an overachiever and I felt that I could really do some good for the company and the dept. that I was a part of, I went into management. I got rewarded with a cut in pay (a fairly significant cut) because the union scales and tenure combined with OT were significantly higher than my supervisor salary range. I never said that I was really smart did I? Anyway, now I was managing people who were making more money than me and when things went well, they got the at-a-boys and when things didn't go so well, I got the at-a-boys (that is obviously a negative conotation). Could never quite figure that one out either. Anyway, this may seem like I'm trashing unions, but I'm really not at all. Just pointing out my experiences as a union member and then as a non-union member. It may also seem like being a manager is the worst place in the world to be. Not at all, in fact I prefer it. I was able to make numerous changes in the dept. that raised moral, customer sat. and employee sat. and I eventually received my just dues for my work. Without my previous experience in the union though, that never would have happened. I never forgot where my roots were. |
eric lavine wrote:Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: February-07-2007 at 6:30pm
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backfoot your one of the few that hasn't forgot where they came from. I work for a few bosses that came from the tools, and they still act like they are better then us. Not true though because the only reasons these guys have gone up the latter is BJ's and a$$ kissing. No brains, don't get me wrong we do have some great bosses where I work. They don't kiss a$$ or give bj's so they are stuck as a foreman. ------------- |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: February-07-2007 at 10:43pm
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Backfoot: I think we musta been brothers in another life. I was Lead tech or In-Charge in my crew for the last 8 years of my career. Interviewed twice for mgmnt because I too thought I could do some good, such as teach new guys because our managers were all non-phone guys. But I had to turn it down because I was offered less (lots counting OT) than I was making. I told them what I had to have and got laughed at. Like I always told my partner, "we work the way we do 'cause of who we are, not just because we get paid the same as some of the other guys". We too had plenty of guys in the garage that were only there and recieving raises because of union bargining, not due to their efforts. But still, I feel as tho I did ok by being a union member.
john ps: probably not brave enough, to be truthful, to do what guys like you or ReidP have done. ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-08-2007 at 5:46pm
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Is it time for a change? or do we let these big corps keep leaving? I cant think of any other reason why they keep shutting doors except for the fact of them losing money. Employees are the biggest expense of a company. next time your in a parking lot count the foriegn cars compared to domestics... you'll be surprised. Sure they build hondas here but the profits dont stay here ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February-08-2007 at 6:14pm
| very interesting thread...hmmmmm being a 3rd generation local#33 union sheet metal worker im going to keep my mouth shut on this one.i will say this...just remember guys we all coose to be in the position we are in...thats it im done..im only a fourth year apprentice, actually just started my fourth year this past october..all trades are a five year program. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February-08-2007 at 6:17pm
eric. speaking of ltv, my neighbor was 5 yaers from retiring..would have gotten about 5500-6000 a month being retired, no receives about 1350 a month..needless to say, he works 40 hrs a week at medina city schools as matinence to pay the bills and possible have a chance to retire before he dies!..sick
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Posted By: reidp
Date Posted: February-08-2007 at 9:12pm
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Ryan, Some of my best friends down here in NC were born and raised in Medina, OH. Last names are Labadie and Wa$$el, but families have retired and moved south. Your neighbor might have known them.
Eric, I don't know if we could ever keep the big corps from leaving. The price of third world labor can't be a target. Maybe we can keep some companies w/o that option from going under however. US Airways asked for and got concessions from their unions and is getting back on track, which was/is big news for us in Charlotte as a hub. ------------- ReidP /diaries/details.asp?ID=231&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 1973 Mustang |
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: February-08-2007 at 10:28pm
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yes but also the companies need to remember hwo they got back on there feet once they are there. Union and company both need to be mindful when bargaining to make sure it doesn't happen again. ------------- |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-09-2007 at 7:55am
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Ryan, gotta a few friends who worked for LTV and they dont say very much after the fact, I worked side by side with some of those guys on warranty work and the last time i was down there i just new it would only be a matter of time. i was told several times that i was making thier mechanics look bad and to slow down. The feeling I got down there was that the employees were calling the shots and nothing mattered. one guy stood by me with a broom in which he was in the Heavy equipment operaters union and was diagnosed with epilectic siezures 2 years earlier. He was no longer allowed to be on any equipment down there and for the last 2 years he was still at scale which was i believe $26.00 per hour. the bad thing is he did'nt even sweep.
I was never exposed to that type of environment untill that time. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: February-09-2007 at 9:09am
Eric, I've read statements like this often. I fail to see what difference it makes. Honda, Toyota, Bertelsman, Zurich Insurance, whoever. If they are doing business here, they are paying workers here; they are paying social security here, they are paying taxes here. Why would you think it makes any difference whether headquarters be foreign or domestic? The companies you are talking about are generally publicly traded. Profits go back to the shareholders, who could be anyone, anywhere in the world, regardless of where headquarters are located. Or, profits are made available as capital a$$ets for further expansions, growth, etc. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: PLBC
Date Posted: February-09-2007 at 9:24am
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Today we are in a global economy, like it or not. There will be no reverting back to how it "used to be". ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5164&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 99 |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-09-2007 at 9:40am
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The middle cla$$ is starting to dissolve in this area, bkh, why do you think Honda and Toyota set up shop in our back yards? Im asking this as without sarcasm and want to hear your opinion. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: February-09-2007 at 11:44am
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well with toyota talking about scaling back wages and bennefits, they just may open the doors for the UAW to walk in. It's already in are paper here in Detriot that workers for toyota when on record as wanting the union down there. It's only a matter of time I think.
Oh yeah anyone else see the ma$$ recall of one honda's high end cars. Recalled all of last years production do to electrical problems. I guess they have problems to, ma$$ produce cars and quality slips. It happens, fact of life. This problems are going to be more and more frequent for Honda and Toyota. ------------- |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-09-2007 at 12:38pm
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Plbc, The United States drives the global economy, Lets face it the automotive industry drives the world, Imagine if everyone in this country out and out refused to buy a foriegn car for one year, what would be the end result in your eyes....... ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: February-09-2007 at 1:00pm
Eric, I have not done the research to know why Honda or Toyota may have set up shop specifically in Ohio. More generally, all of these companies established manufacturing facilities in the United states to make more money. End of story. Since the United States places ridiculous tarrifs on foreign auto makers, it was more profitable to set up shop in the US, even with our high labor rates, than to manufacture elsewhere and import. Of course, this makes it all the more ironic that American Car companies, in spite of the fact that they don't pay tarrifs, still can't compete and so they are going offshore to reduce costs of manufacturing. Once the decision is made for the foreign company to manufacture in the US, the location may be chosen for many reasons. Again, almost always related to maximizing profit. In some cases states have offered tax breaks or other financial incentives to entice the company (Alabama for example). Sometimes, the manufacturer takes advantage of an existing facility which has been closed (Nummi in CA for example). BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: 82tique
Date Posted: February-09-2007 at 2:19pm
agreed. sink or swim. ------------- Life is Good. |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: February-09-2007 at 3:40pm
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This is really good stuff guys. I know that this topic has probably caused a lot of feuds and certainly a lot more hard feelings because of friends and family who ended up on the short end of the stick because of it. I would just like to thank everybody for being so level headed on the subject and open to hearing the other side of the story.
Eric, I've always had the same feelings about the profits going oversea's but I never thought about the points that BKH brought up. They make a lot of sense to me. I do have a comment though as to the discussion about where the company decides to locate. This is one thing that I would have to disagree on from BKH is the paying taxes portion that he stated. I know of a lot of companies that made deals with cities (and I know you all have heard these too) that they would only pay a dollar per year for property taxes or something rediculously low like that just to get the company to put the plant in that city. Of course, it only means that he work force is spending more money in that same city. Then you have all the tax breaks that a company receives from the gov't. As for 87BFN comments. If the company is looking at scaling back and asking for concessions from the workers, I don't know what a difference a union would make for them. It's been proven that union workers have been making huge concessions across the country for the past few years to stay in business. If the company doesn't get the concessions it wants, it will either have to close the doors or relocate to get the concessions that it needs to stay profitable. There are way too many people around the country or the world who will work for those concessions. It's just a matter of the cost to relocate. Then there is the affore mentioned quality issues starting to pop up. I think everybody looks at the front line workers and managers to trim whatever fat they can. My issues are with the upper level managers. How much does a CEO, CFO, CIO or any other type of O really need? Or for that matter a Board of Directors member? These people make MILLIONS upon MILLIONS. They give themselves 50% raises when they ask the work force to take a cut and make concessions. I'm just not seeing that crap. Now granted it's certainly not all of them, but sure seem to hear about enough of them. Guys like Lee Iacocoa who took no salary for a couple years to get a company back on track are the ones that I admire. Even though I understand that he more than made up for it in the long run. He kept people employed and a dying company in business and turned them profitable. |
Posted By: PLBC
Date Posted: February-09-2007 at 4:02pm
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Eric (and everybody),
I would say that the United States used to drive the global economy. As of late they are just a partner. The European Union imports and exports more than the USA these days. China and Japan are not far behind the USA. Would I like the USA to be like it was 20, 30, 40, 50+ years ago? Yes, but we are in the position we are today because everybody (started with USA) wants to make more money while paying less for everything and get it faster than ever. KFF ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5164&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 99 |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-09-2007 at 4:06pm
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Profit's not a dirty word, these guys set up shop close to the natural resources that this country produces with the deception of putting the american to work, its supply and demand and I think if we get that turned around the big 2 will stay the big 2 ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February-09-2007 at 4:37pm
aahhhh im biting my tongue!!!!!!!!!
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Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: February-09-2007 at 5:33pm
Yes Ed, I noted the tax incentives in my second post. However, these incentives are not limited to foreign companies. They are given to American companies as well. For instance, Google was given huge incentives by Michigan to open up a facility there. The problem is that American manufacturing companies, and American Auto companies in particular have still been unable to find a way to be competitive even with these types of sweetheart deals. BTW - even if given a deal on property taxes, they must still pay corp income taxes,etc. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-09-2007 at 7:47pm
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Bk, what do you think these companies can do to get back in black? or what can you and me do? eric ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: February-09-2007 at 8:16pm
That would make an interesting conversation Eric. Perhaps some day when I get a chance to meet you over beers. For now, I think I'll respectfully abstain. My opinion, would be just that, an opinion. No doubt someone else will have an opinion just the opposite. Inevitably we end up in arguments that can't be resolved anyway, particularly on a boating site. For now, let's just say that none of my money is invested in American Automobile companies (Though I do own two American cars) BKH. ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: February-09-2007 at 9:24pm
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the fact that you own 2 american cars bkh is all we can ask for. Problem for the big three is show rooms and trade in value. The dealer wants to make thousands off your trade in. You can not afford to take that lose so you go where they will give you the most moeny. Sometimes that will be at a foriegn car dealer. I think this needs to change. Dealers need to offer better customer service and that would go a long way in helping Ford and GM. The public itself needs to give them a chance again. They built bad cars in the past but that isn't the case any more. Lawsuite are another story, people sew over stupid things and even dumber people on juries give them money. Which costs companies billions a year.
We change those three things and that puts Ford an GM right back in the drivers seat. Now if they should make back to a front running position they need to remember not to neglect product developement and quality. But I have talked to, to many people that have said that dealerships turned them off from buying american. Now to address why toyota and honda build plants where they do. It was in our local paper they stated their plants are where they are to keep wages low. Look at the amount of money per hour around the area. Then compare toyota and honda's wages they are higher so where would you work if you lived there. They say there wages topped uaw wages, deduct their bonuses and they still made less then uaw. But if you want to add their bonuses then make we have to add in all the beneffits that uaw gets that non union doesn't get. UAW comes out on top wage wise. Toyota is going to scale wages and bennefits back to stay profitable they just want to save 300 million. So would you be willing to take a pay cut just so the company can make a bigger profit? ------------- |
Posted By: Poster112
Date Posted: February-09-2007 at 10:38pm
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Support congressmen that support HR 25 "the Fair tax". This will eliminate all corporate income taxes (as well as personal income taxes). This will make the US a tax haven for all manufacturing, especially auto makers. This will create more jobs that can be filled.
See http://fairtax.org - fairtax.org ------------- I'd rather have a bottle-in-front-of-me than a frontal-lobotomy. http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3182&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1925&yrend=2009" rel="nofollow - 1985 Ski 1984 SW |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-10-2007 at 10:37am
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Bkh, you said what i wanted to hear in your last sentence, and i think thats where it starts, change back the way people think about US auto's. You know and i know US cars are as good or better nowadays . Its just a matter of convincing people to buy them, thats the easy part.
business's and people thrive for miles around these plants everyone benifits wether it is an auto plant or steel plant ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 6strings
Date Posted: February-10-2007 at 10:54am
| Not to put a damper on this thread, it just is so reminiscent of my early days in the mid 70's when I went to work for GM. In reality, the arguments haven't changed much...however, back then, there were no Japanese plants in the U.S. I remember the signs in the parking lots..."If it's not made in the U.S., park it in Japan". When I hired on, the only vehicle I owned was a Toyota pick up. Anyway, I spent 9 years in the UAW, then quit to sell measuring equipment. I now have a broad view of manufacturing in the U.S., whether it's American companies, Japanese, or European. My point is this: We need manufacturing jobs in the U.S. and I don't care who owns the companies...it benefits us all. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-10-2007 at 11:44am
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6 strings, if you had a choice of them being american held i think you would want them to be. the back bone, the a$$ bone, the foot bone the finger bone of this country is manufacturing.
I'm just ranting because of recent events, one of the biggest chevy dealerships shutting thier doors down the street from me, everyone is on C.O.D. nowadays, going way past 30 days to get paid, I call it the trckle up economy because it effects the chain, I guess i need some good boat questions ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: February-10-2007 at 3:44pm
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I think the bottom line is greed.Just my opinion.Everyone wants to make more money.Obviously the auto makers are struggling,but so are alot of others.We overspend tremendously as a country and it's finally biting us in the a$$.Health care is rising,cost of employees is rising,cost of living,big oil is killing us just for the fun of it,etc.....As an example,here in the northeast heating oil has gone from 2.70 a gallon down to 2.05 a gallon because of an overstock.We had such a warm January,no one was sucking up the oil.Now that it's been in the teens for three weeks and people have the heat blasting ,oil is climbing back up quickly.Rather than be thankful they're selling it at all,they're trying to make up for a lackluster January.
Harley Davidson did it in '03.Let's make a ton of 100th anniversary bikes and command all the money for them.Overproduced & overpriced=surplus inventory.New bike prices plummeted,& the used bike market fell apart. It most likely will not recover.In the northeast,you can now buy a new or used HD for about 4000.00 less than you could 4 years ago.Someone has to feel the rath of those losses. I could go on for hours about what the manufacturers have done to the snowmobile market up here,but I won't.Bottom line is greed has killed that industry and with 2-3 lackluster winters as far as snowfall,there will likely be 50%less places in Maine & NH to buy a new sled next year.Sad. I don't know anything about the workings of a union,but I hear alot of my friends talking about it and it seems like they have the employer over a barrel.That's great if your in the union,but if it's protecting the guys that aren't pulling their own weight,then they can only blame themselves when the employer reaches the breaking point and has to cut back.The reality is that cutbacks in that environment will not not likely affect the white collar guys. As a new business owner,I'm trying to do my part by going to work everyday,working hard & efficient,trying to do it better than the next guy,and making an honest living without being greedy.I'd be willing to bet that everyone on this site can say the same thing and probably knows alot of people who work just as hard,but as a country in general I'd have to say that's not the case at all. We can make all the excuses we want,but at is was said in a previous thread a few months back....we've done it to ourselves. Sorry this rant is all over the map and got so long. Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: February-10-2007 at 8:51pm
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Whats the new biz Mike? Hows it goin"?
john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-11-2007 at 10:44am
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Mike, makin any money? this is gonna start a whole new topic ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: February-11-2007 at 11:24am
I started a small motorcycle parts & repair shop,I specialize in late model Harley's.I just opened Feb.1.It's a little slow right now,but it's to be expected when it's only 10 degrees! Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: February-11-2007 at 11:36am
Nope! Actually I can't complain.I have quite a bit of clientel as I've been in the industry for 13 years.I have four jobs in the shop now and I've only been open a week.One of them is a brand new bike(10 miles on it)which I'll be doing about 10k worth of work to,but in the end,I'll be lucky to have made a thousand bucks.Hopefully when the weather up here breaks I'll be able to get rolling right along. Tell me again why I'm doing this
Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-11-2007 at 11:55am
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your doing it cause you cant work for somebody else. Im right there with ya, alot highs and lows and if you make it threw them you'll be successful, good luck Eric ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: February-11-2007 at 2:46pm
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Thank you Eric.I've formed my own opinions over the years about work/employees and the bottom line is I didn't feel I was being treated fairly.I had most of the responsibility for day to day stuff,but no control.I worked for him like I was running my own business and the customers would attest to that.
I worked for him in his small garage at the beginning and for the next five years helped him grow his business and be successful.We moved to a 6000 sq.foot building and over the last three years he hired at least 20 people who came and went because they couldn't make him happy.Only one guy besides myself survived the environment. The three weeks prior to Christmas he worked an average of 3 hours a week,while myself and the other guy did the $20k or so worth of work that came in,while he was out living it up with his new lady...Which is o.k.,BUT....He came in the day before Christmas and told us we wouldn't be getting bonuses this year cause we were'nt making him enough money,and "OH by the way,you guys are off next week without pay,we're going to be closed"He then proceeded to tell me he didn't feel like he was getting his moneys worth out of me.I said....... "S-E-E Y-A!" Now I have all the responsibility and all of the control,which is fine by me. Best part is the other guy doesn't want to be there without me to lean on,so he's looking for another job 
Didn't mean to rant on about my personal life,but the talent pool for skilled people is not that deep anymore,and if any of you guys out there have employees that do a good job,compensate them.Too many business owners lose site of the fact that they wouldn't have a business all without good people behind them.Again,sorry for the rant.(and the threadjack) Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-11-2007 at 3:15pm
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Mike sounds all so true, as long as you dont become that guy you use to work for, to this day im there every single day im still the one that cleans the toilets to set an example for the guys so they dont get that feeling that im above them. I dont have a good week and take the next one off and at the end of the day i know i did this for myself and my family ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: copcraft
Date Posted: February-11-2007 at 3:34pm
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Mike
Where is your shop located? Post a phone number if you would, I'm always looking for parts for the '89 FLH, or is that older than what you work with? Dave |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: February-11-2007 at 8:19pm
I am in N.H.You can reach me at 603-742-1200 I prefer the newer Twin Cam stuff,but work on Evos also.Anything newer than 1985.If you need anything or have a question,I'd be happy to help in any way.I can get oem Harley and Aftermarket parts and can probably discount the price enough to cover shipping if need be. Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: February-11-2007 at 8:53pm
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Mike: Sure wish you were closer. All the Harley dealers I've been to recently are gettin' to big and to worried about selling T's to yuppie guys on their first bike if they even have one at all. Big and fancy: ugh.
BTW: my ride is a '96 Heritage Cla$$ic. Wouldn't sell it for anything. Just rode her yesterday and on an errand today. Man, I love it down here! john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: JMurph
Date Posted: February-11-2007 at 9:12pm
Congrats on starting the new business! I started a business in '99 and then bought out another business (same line of work) in '02. I still run them separately and have about 20 people right now. Without too much detail, I'll say that in our industry (real estate) it is hard to keep people on staff. The training time is a slow process and people usually try to just hire your employees away, rather than a new hire that requires training. I have never lost an employee to a competitor. I agree whole heartedly with your a$$essment of good employees. Get 'em, pay 'em, keep 'em. I do my fair share of playing, but I think every one of my employees would say that I am a hard worker. You simply cannot earn the respect of your employees by screwing around all of the time and expecting them to make you money. It does happen in certain cases, but I don't feel like it can last. I was lucky when I started my business. My wife had a good job and we were young enough to not realize that we were pretty poor. We lived within our means and were very happy doing it. Starting my business was like a game for me at first. I just kept trying to make my clients happy. It worked then and it's still working. I believe the client/customer is always right (even when they're not). Good luck! -JMurph ------------- |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: February-11-2007 at 9:36pm
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Thanks for the support guys.That's why I love this site.Great people.
JBear, Anytime you need something just load that baby up and head 1500 miles north.Better yet take a vacation from the Florida heat in June and I'll show you around bike week in Laconia! Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: February-11-2007 at 9:51pm
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Have heard alot about Laconia. Need to see it and you and JEFF. Used to go to Bike Week but don't anymore. Way to crowded and crazy for this old guy anymore. Biketober fest in the fall is a little better.
john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: February-12-2007 at 12:00am
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Mike,
don't own an HD myself but work with alot of guys that do. Can spread your number around if you would like. Most of these guys buy parts and put them on themselves so I think if they need something it could work out for everyone if they call you. ------------- |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-12-2007 at 7:47am
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Mike who does your paint work? Eric ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: February-12-2007 at 8:00am
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Tom McNiel does most of it.Great kid,but a PITA to deal with.
www.boneheaddesigns.com Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret |