ultra low sulfur fuel
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Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: Off Topic
Forum Discription: Anything non-Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5727
Printed Date: December-23-2024 at 12:34am
Topic: ultra low sulfur fuel
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Subject: ultra low sulfur fuel
Date Posted: February-12-2007 at 6:31pm
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The guys on this site seem very cutting edge tech savy. So I pose this question. I have heard the new ultra low sulfur diesel fuel will not work in older diesel engines, true or false? I was also told that fueling stations are supposed to start marking their pumps with labels that state NOT FOR USE IN VEHICLES MODELS OLDER THEN 2007. Is this true? Last question there is supposed to be an additive for the older diesels to run on this new ultra low sulfur much like the lead substitute for gas motors. true or false? Any other info on the subject that can be provided would be great.
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Replies:
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: February-12-2007 at 6:56pm
87, the deal about the low sulpher fuel has to do with the pump.Seems the sulpher worked as an add lubricant on the wobble plate,rotor and the shaft. Seizure and galling or the by product of this "new type fuel"
don't know about any fixes tho, I am sure there is a fix for the older motors,just have not had any reason to research the issue.
boat dr
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boat dr
/diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart
/diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier
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Posted By: tnplicky
Date Posted: February-12-2007 at 10:46pm
The ultra low sulfer diesel fuel is now a requirement for the new 2007 EPA On-highway truck engines that the major engine manufactures (Cat, Cummins, Detroit, others) have started producing. The new engines REQUIRE the ULSD fuel, but my understanding is that the new fuel WILL work in older engines. Putting regular diesel in the new 2007 engines will cause problems. I think the labels at the ULSD pumps state "REQUIRED FOR 2007 ENGINES", not "NOT FOR USE IN VEHICLES MODELS OLDER THEN 2007". The fuel tanks on the 2007 trucks should also have a label saying "ULSD fuel ONLY - use of regular diesel can cause damage to the engine system and can void the manufactures warranty."
The higher sulfer diesel provides some lubricity that the newer ULSD fuel does not. Not sure about any additives for using ULSD.
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Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: February-13-2007 at 6:51am
I use the Standadyne additive, same manufacturer as my pump.
Low sulphur fuel will eat my ($1500 pump + labor) real quick. Even the last reduction in sulfure reduced pump life, so I'm not taking any chances, because my next pump is not on factory warrantee.
I was re-warned by my diesel-tech just last month when I had it in for service.
He had nothing to gain by warning me, he just saw I was an enthusiast becuase my engine is hopped up, and wanted to save me some pain. And he was pretty impessed with the performance of my truck with the Heath ECM reflash and wastegate.
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole
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Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: February-13-2007 at 4:15pm
so if they are using sulfur as a lubricant, then taking more of it out of the fuel will be harmful if you us it in a vehicle older then 2007?
gotta ski, is the additive you use just an anti-gel additive or is it a lube additive, that you add to your fuel?
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Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: February-14-2007 at 6:44pm
just inscase anyone is interested, I read the tag on the diesel pump today. It said that the ultraa low sulfur fuel was safe and recommended for all diesel engines 2007 and older, but it a requirement for 2008 and newer.
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Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: February-14-2007 at 7:32pm
Its a lube. If the factory sees scoring on the pump bores due to low lubricity, they most often refuse to honor any warantee. The epa doesn't give a hoot if you eat a pump every 20-30k.
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole
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Posted By: AWhite70
Date Posted: February-14-2007 at 11:03pm
I don't believe the sulfur itself serves as a lubricant but the cracking process to remove the sulfur can hurt lubricity. ULSD however has additives to improve lubricity. Modern diesel fuel systems have much tighter tolerances and operating pressures than older fuel systems, for these reasons lubrication is even more critical. ULSD is backwards compatible with older engines.
Running non ULSD on new engines doesn't cause a problem with the engine. The problem comes in with aftertreatment (catalytic converters for diesel) and emissions. Sulfur poisons diesel aftertreatment systems. If you run high sulfur fuel through an engine with a catalyst the sulfur locks up the receptor sites for the regulated emissions and the regulated emissions will pa$$ through. The sulfur can be removed from a poisoned catalyst but it takes a much higher temperature regeneration cycle than with a typical regeneration cycle.
I'm an engineer for a major diesel engine manufacturer, so hopefully that will lend my story some credibility.
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AWhite70
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=562&sort=revyear&pagenum=5&yrstart=1976&yrend=1980" rel="nofollow - '79 Ski Nautique
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Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: February-15-2007 at 11:25am
AWhite 70, the first time i saw this problem was in the late 90's at the local Air Force base,JP 4 makes a good substitute for diesel, they have tons of the stuff,smokes less, starts quicker on cold morn. blah, blah ,blah.
Bottom line lots of pump failures on both G.M. and FoMoCo,pumps would seize and do lottsa nasty things inside the motor.
A buddy owns a injector repair shop,took him a while to solve the puzzle.........boat dr
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boat dr
/diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart
/diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier
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Posted By: AWhite70
Date Posted: February-15-2007 at 11:44pm
boat dr, I don't disagree with you JP4 will cause problems. It is jet fuel, not diesel. Jet fuel is very close to kerosene, which contains almost no lubricity. ULSD is supposed to have lubricity enhancers that make it equivalent to the older stuff. I have read of cases where there were bad batches, that have caused problems but by the standards it is supposed to equivalent from a lubricity standpoint. Additionally a small mix of biodiesel B2-B5 greatly improves the lubricity of ULSD.
The military likes to get it's engines certified to run on jet fuel because it allows them to have only one fuel. Very advantageous from a logistics standpoint. Due to the low lubricity of jet this is very difficult for modern high-tech diesel's. Some fuel filter manufacturers offer filters that contain a doping agent that releases lubricity modifiers into the fuel prior to the high pressure pump.
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AWhite70
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=562&sort=revyear&pagenum=5&yrstart=1976&yrend=1980" rel="nofollow - '79 Ski Nautique
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Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: February-16-2007 at 7:48am
Correct. I understand the old GM cucv's (kuk-vees) have hardened internal pump components to survive the multi-fuel conditions they were expected to live in..
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole
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