switching to synthetic motor oil?
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5869
Printed Date: January-17-2025 at 6:33pm
Topic: switching to synthetic motor oil?
Posted By: weitekampt
Subject: switching to synthetic motor oil?
Date Posted: March-01-2007 at 3:02pm
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Is it ok to switch to synthetic motor oil in our V-8's? I run it in my diesel truck with good results. I am willing to spend a little extra money on the boat and wondering if this is a good thing to do.
Any experiences? ------------- 1993 SkiNautique ProTec 2009 Boatmate trailer. 1240 hours on meter. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1559&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - 1993 Ski Nautique |
Replies:
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: March-01-2007 at 3:12pm
| Todd, I'd save the extra cash for Perfect Pass! |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: March-01-2007 at 3:28pm
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On the newer motors PCM does not recommend it.
My Excalibur runs what is basically Diesel Oil 15w-40. Check out the PCM site here - http://www.pcmengines.com/faqs.html - PCM Website ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: March-01-2007 at 3:32pm
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Todd, Id save the extra money for PP as well.
There has been some discussion here and elsewhere that many modern oils meeting the newest standards (especially synthetics) are lacking in additives important for old tech flat-tappet cam motors. Our 351's fall into this category. Take a look at this article: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/flat_tappet_cam_tech/ - Hot Rod Im certainly not one to cheap out when it comes to the boat, but I choose to run conventional Shell Rotella-T 15w40 and quality Wix (NAPA) filters rather than synthetic. ------------- |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: March-01-2007 at 3:34pm
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Not to mention you already have over 1000 hours on that engine running the dyno. Leave it. ------------- |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: March-01-2007 at 3:56pm
| Here's another use for that money: Sign up for the reunion. |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: March-01-2007 at 4:36pm
 ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
M3Fan wrote:Posted By: Mojo
Date Posted: March-01-2007 at 4:43pm
Yeah 
And me a cold one !!!! Moj' ------------- 05' SV211 TE 73' Martinique had:96' SNOB had:76' Nautique had 77 Tique |
Posted By: 88skisupreme
Date Posted: March-01-2007 at 4:47pm
| I've heard that its ok for new motors but that it can be a harsh transition for a motor with several miles/hours. |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: March-01-2007 at 5:05pm
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If you have clean bilge now you won't if you change to syn oil. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 2_Nautiques
Date Posted: March-01-2007 at 8:14pm
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Help me out here, I switched to synthetic oil when I had about 300 HRS on the 88. I did this because I was running around 100 Hrs a season and just wanted to skip a mid season oil change. Have 1334 Hrs now and still running synthetic, should I switch back to Dyno oil ???? Mostly I was using Amsoil Marine oil 15W-40 and is rated for light or heavy duty diesel marine applications??? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1160" rel="nofollow - 1988 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: March-01-2007 at 8:18pm
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Matt you fine your motor was fairly new when you did it and Amsoil and royal purple are a lot better than moble 1 and the other junk syn oils. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: March-01-2007 at 8:32pm
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used royal purple only in all my diesels great stuff. Run it in my commercial mower also. ------------- |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: March-01-2007 at 8:52pm
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I like Redline synthetic in everything EXCEPT the boat.Dealer did not recommend it.The problem I see with extended oil change intervals is that the synthetic base may not break down,but it does not stay clean and contaminate free.I would still change it at the regular intervals.
Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: March-01-2007 at 8:54pm
| I wouldn't switch over to synthetic on an older boat because it may cause leaking or other problems, but it may be worth considering on a newer one. I switched to Amsoil on an '03 with 250 hours. It's got about 350 now. I run it in my trucks and go 10-12k between changes. I'm not convinced on the benefit for a boat yet though, as I still change the oil at 50 hours. |
Posted By: 2_Nautiques
Date Posted: March-02-2007 at 9:54am
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Thanks, feel better now. I don't put on the hrs like I use to but had good luck so far with the Amsoil. I think I will stick with what I have been doing. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1160" rel="nofollow - 1988 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: March-02-2007 at 12:15pm
| I use Mobil 1 in EVERYTHING I own since about '85. I use it in my pressure washer and lawn mower even. I ran four vehicles over 200K miles and never had a mechanical problem of any kind or used oil. My boat started running M1 at the 450HR mark (when I bought it). Now has 1200 and when I changed the heads and intake, the lifter valley looked brand new (that was at 800HR's). I change the oil filter every 2K miles on my vehicles and then top off the amount the filter holds, then do a complete oil change at the 8K miles mark (per most new engine warranty requirements). The boat I change the filter every 10-15 hours and then a complete change at the end of the season. I've never had a leak, or started using any oil because of a switch to synthetic. As far as I'm concerned, you could never pay me enough to use dyno oil again. If you live in a place where you have a vehicle exposed to extreme cold (North) or extreme hot (South or under a boats engine cover) you cannot go wrong with synthetic. If you're worried about cost, changing the filter the way I do becomes a break even proposition over dyno if you keep a vehicle for 50K miles. That's assuming that you do a complete dyno oil change every 2K and the synthetic oil filter every 2K with a complete change at 8K. I figured it out once apon a time. As far as newer vehicles not running synthetic, I can't imagine that any engine would not run with less friction and be better protected over dyno. Engine manfacturers don't recommend synthetic because people who aren't in-the-know try to run synthetic way longer than normal WITHOUT changing the filter. There isn't an engine warranty in existance that will not cover a failure because you used synthetic oil. They won't cover it if there is evidence that the oil was not changed when it should be (dyno or synthetic). Sorry for length but I could go on for hours about this. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: March-02-2007 at 1:34pm
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Ive heard of plenty of people who run Mobil 1 and other synthetics and have experienced long engine life. In my car I run 5k mile oil/filter change intervals with Castrol GTX conventional oil and a quality filter (Wix, Purolator, etc). Im at 250k miles and going strong. The boat has seen nothing but conventional oil as well. It seems to have been well maintained all its life- when I tore it down at 1170+ hrs the lifter valley looked brand new.
On most newer motors, I believe you can safely extend the OCI a bit by using synthetic. However, using any quality oil (dyno or synthetic) combined with a good filter and an appropriate change interval should result in long engine life. Since the change intervals are so short on our boats (50 hrs or 1-2 changes/year), the extra cost associated with synthetic is a personal decision. For my flat-tappet motor, Ive read enough to convince me that oils containing additives (ZDDP, etc) may be a better way to go. A quality filter is important regardless of your choice in oil. ------------- |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: March-02-2007 at 3:01pm
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TRBenj, I completely agree with your mind set, Rotella and a FL1A Motorcraft,chang it as the book say's and live a long and prosperous life Luke Skywalker.......boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: March-02-2007 at 3:43pm
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Doc, Ive read that both Rotella-T and Valvoline Racing oil have the extra additives. As far as filters go, Motorcraft, Wix (which Napa rebrands as their own) and Purolator are all very good. Mobil 1 is very good as well, but 2-3x the price as the others. Definitely avoid Fram. ------------- |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: March-02-2007 at 3:52pm
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TRBenj, too many schools and warranty issues involved in denied claims. Run the stuff that came on the unit from the factory.
Mercruiser will not pay on a claim that involves synthetic,engine or drive train.To me that's a strong statement ,don't use the stuff and ask us to foot the bill on parts or labor............boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: Lorenr
Date Posted: March-02-2007 at 4:21pm
I've had a little experience with synthetic oils. Here are some experiences. I used conventional oil in my 82 351 ci PCM that would run to almost 40 MPH. At about 700 hours we really overheated it when my girlfriend took her buddies out watersking. She sheared the fresh water impellor. I thought the motor was damaged and took the heads apart. Everything was fine including the valve guides, but used the opportunity the port the heads, install duel valve springs, better retainers, perform a three angle valve job, install a true roller timing chain and a performer intake manifold and new 1860 Holley. The boat responded by going 47 MPH. At about 900 hours I started using Synthetic Mobil 1 that I'd drained out of my car after running it 4000 miles. The boat again responded by idling a lot smoother even to 650 RPM. I also think the boat picked up a little power. No leaks at all and no oil usage during the entire season. At about 1200 hours I stopped being so cheap and started using Walmart's brand of Full Synthetic Oil and their filter. The total for both was $15.00. With fresh oil the boat runs even smoother. I damaged the 1 to 1 BW transmission from a loose propeller shaft and completely rebuilt it at 1100 hrs and started using Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF in it. I believe the ATF made a difference here also making the transmission quieter. I'm sold on the stuff after looking into one of my car motors and running synthetic for about a 100,000 miles. I see that Shell oil has a full synthetic Rotella for those of us running new flat tappet camshafts. It contains the additives that cam manufacturers want to break in their camshafts ------------- Lorenr |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: March-02-2007 at 6:13pm
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Lorenr,I would not tell that story to my best friend,the only thing I can say is I hope you did not put used oil in a Correct Craft.
And you go on to say you sprurged on a 15.00 dollar oil change,then ruined a tranny from a loose prop shaft,Dad had a saying that applies perfectly in this case. Penny wise and dollar foolish.......... The additives are not there only for the cam break-in , the lifters need the heavy metals for a long life,Run cheap oil and filters, don't tighten any bolts and God forbid ,Do Not Install A New Impeller Every Season...............boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: March-02-2007 at 6:35pm
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My dealer uses Valvoline in the boats,so Tim's onto something there.My bro-in-law runs his own excavation equipment,is anal about maintanence and has researched oils.He will only use Rotella T. Tim's onto something again.
As far as extended oil changes in new cars,they are mandated by the EPA for waste disposal purposes.Doesn't mean you have to go that long,just that they hope you will cause the manufacture is telling you it's ok. As for warranty claims,if they insist that you use a particular product to keep from voiding your warranty...federal law says they must provide it to you free of charge. Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret |
Posted By: Lorenr
Date Posted: March-02-2007 at 6:45pm
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boat dr,
I know that my post seems odd, but I really have been doing this for a long time. Read my post carefully. I put that stuff in there for a reason. I built drag racing engines and transmissions for a long time before I got smart and bought a ski boat. I like the rest of you, started out by using the best parts and maintenance programs possible. However, I wasn't as fast as other guys so I wondered what it was that made their motors better. What I found was "forget all the romance BS and pay attention to the basics". I've seen guys run their used oil through cheese cloth before putting it back in the motor. You could easily run synthetic engine oil for 10,000 miles, filter it properly and put back in the motor. No kidding. Probably the hardest thing for fresh water cooled engines is condensate in the oil pan.(motor does not get hot enough to boil off the moisture) That might be the only reason to change the oil. ------------- Lorenr |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: March-02-2007 at 6:55pm
My buddy still races and he quit using that Moble 1 junk after it smoked his motor because of the oil. Dad never talked highly of Moble gas when he had his service station when I was a kid. I'll never use the junk. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: March-02-2007 at 8:32pm
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Mercruiser will not pay on a claim that involves synthetic,engine or drive train.To me that's a strong statement ,don't use the stuff and ask us to foot the bill on parts or labor............boat dr
Maintain the motor at regular intervals{50hrs.}10/30 or 20/50, ain't nuttin special about that,just don't expect them to pay if you deviate. As for warranty claims,if they insist that you use a particular product to keep from voiding your warranty...federal law says they must provide it to you free of charge. ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: March-02-2007 at 8:51pm
| I bought a new 05 Silverado last year with a 5.3 HO. I switched to Amsoil at 6000 miles. Engine, transfer case and differentials. My mileage got better by about 1.5 mpg. I go about 12k between oil and filter changes. The oil stays clean and I don't use a drop. It works great for me. $65 per oil change, but only twice a year. For the boats, I'm only running it in my 03 Indmar because I was talked into supposedly better lubrication properties than dino. I'm not convinced it's worth it because I change it at 50 hours and it's pricey. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: March-02-2007 at 9:01pm
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when do you get to a point in a motors life when you decide i better run synthetic?
Ive never got to that point yet and probably never will unless its designed for use with synthetic oil. along with transmissions, synthetics are great for mechanical transmissions but in many cases not for hydraulic transmissions in fact in some of the higher performance transmissions we build we recomended type F because it has an additive that increases co-efficience of friction which means the pack wont break loose as it would with normal ATF and with the introduction of synthetics you have more of a chance to allow the clutches to slip. Ive never heard anyone say the engine failed cause i changed the oil when i was suppose to. it's the engines that fail when your on 5 season intervals on boats and every 50,000 on a car ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: March-02-2007 at 9:22pm
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Eric, from the mouth comes wisdom,from the anus comes sh----, well you know.
but is it not true that all i have to do is put gas in it???? loose drive shaft and used motor oil keeps me in biddness, also pays for my new polished Hi-Teks...........boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: March-02-2007 at 9:23pm
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good point Eric, as my brother likes to joke. I plan on selling this car all original. Oil included. I have finally got him a 4000 mile oil change pattern. I go 3k sometimes 2500 depending on when the next chance I will get to change it will be.
I do have to say my diesel loved that royal purple gave almost and extra 2mpg with it. Never thought about synthetic in the trans. I know some people do but I wouldn't. ------------- |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: March-02-2007 at 10:45pm
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[QUOTE=eric lavine] when do you get to a point in a motors life when you decide i better run synthetic?
It started like this, 5 years ago I bought a 96 Suburban with 88k on it. A mechanic that I believe is excellent, that I brought it to to change the intake manifold gasket, told me it would easily go to 200k if I used Amsoil. It's now got 165k on it and runs great. 10-12k between oil anf filter changes. My 05 was switched over at 6k after it was good and broken in. With the trucks, I think it's great because of the extended oil changes. I've got an 03 Malibu Sportster with a 310 Indmar. I switched it over to Amsoil 15w45 this past summer at 283 hours, after it was good and broken in. I pulled it and winterized it at 303 hours. I'm not convinced that changing it over was a benifit as I don't plan on running the oil more than 50 hours, but at this point, I don't know if it would be bad to change back. I had been running Valvoline 15w40. I switched because I was sold on it being better than dino, but I never had any problems with dino. |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: March-03-2007 at 12:06am
Those boats really haul. The sportster hull is an amazing platform for ski boat speed. Narrow hull with a flat bottom and lifting strakes. I probably put 100 hours driving a friend of mine's sporty and have not seen any inboard get up to speed like that thing. If any of you guys line up with a sporty with engine mods, watch out! |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: March-03-2007 at 7:41am
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ok, to get back on track, the original inquiry was about synthetic in a '93 vintage, std 260hp 351...read not roller cam.
I say beware its more risky using a top-line SC rated synthetic oil than a typical brand CC rated conventional oil at 1/2 the price. If your going to try synthetic, I suggest sticking with the CC rated oils else risk loosing the cam. Now gaining an MPG in your truck typically cruising using 35-40 hp, is not the same as the loading in a boat. The friction eliminated doesn't increase linearly with loading, so that savings will be lost in the noise as far as efficiency, the #/hr are just so much greater in a boat and the gas savings less significant, I believe. Now I'm not synthetic -phobic nor deny a mpg or two can be realized, I've witnessed that. I use the synthetic in my diesel in the winter, when like any of you other firefighters know, one can't baby it on a cold 5-degree start when a call comes in. The rattle and crankiness fades faster with the synthetic and I'm more asured the fluids are moving where they should when I can't be sitting in the driveway letting it warm up some. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: March-03-2007 at 8:25am
I wouldn't switch on an older boat like that either. I'd stick with the same stuff that was always used in it. We ran staight 30W, non detergent oil in our old CC back in the day, and was told that switching to detergent oils would screw it up. Are you saying that you switch back and forth between dino and synthetic, summer to winter? |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: March-03-2007 at 8:33am
Uhm, ya. So far without incident, oil burning nor leakage. '96 6.5 turbodiesel, 150k mi. I believe the non-detergent oils were more for splash-lubricated engines, is that correct? ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: March-03-2007 at 8:41am
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I don't know much about the non detergent oils, just that we owned a Barracuda with a 210hp, 318 that had solid lifters and that's what we used. We were always told that the engine would fall apart if we switched to 30W HD. Something to consider if your buying an old boat. Find out what oil was used in it.
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Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: March-03-2007 at 8:47am
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Yes eric, I concur. Lihe motorcycle trannies, too slippery a fluid, and you loose the clutch.
And why choose synthetic ATF in the VelvetDrive when its being filtered by a window screen? maybe it just feels better. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: March-03-2007 at 8:50am
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Riley,some of the "Old Wives Tales" still abound in the computer age:
" We were always told that the engine would fall apart if we switched to 30W HD." To me its like drinking your buddies cheap scotch all week-end,Will your body fall apart after a shot of DeWar's White Label,NO. Your body will love ya............boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: March-03-2007 at 9:05am
That sounds good, because when I find the perfect 63-70 CC, I won't have to worry about if I should use it. It was a PIA to find 27 years ago. Probably a lot harder to find now. Let me ask you this: If you had a 4 year old 5.7 GM carbed engine with 303 hours that was switched to synthetic 15w40 20 hours ago, would you stick with it, or go back to 15w40 dino? |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: March-03-2007 at 9:40am
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I would flush the motor and use a quality brand of dyno oil.
there are a couple of good points that have been over looked. Ed uses the syn in everything but does one thing that a lot of others don't do and that is change the filter frequently and you don't have to change the oil when you change the filter. Secondly was Erics comment about hydralic properties of syn which isn't very good. Syn work great in Manual trannies not so hot in automatic's. In my old 90 442 you had to run a special syn fluid in the gear box or it didn't work right, found this out the hard way, replaced the clutch and throw-out bearing filled it back up with 30 wt oil like alot of the trannies took at the time and it shifted like sh*t, replaced it with the syncromes (sp) fluid about twenty bucks a qt and it shifted effortlessly. Man I miss that car. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: March-03-2007 at 10:19am
I dont think you'll have issues either way. If the switch was made early enough that you dont have any leaks, I think youre safe if you want to continue running synthetic. I wouldnt really try and extend your change interval on the boat, though. Ive also heard its safe to switch back to dyno at any point (but not the other way around). With a roller motor, youre less likely to do damage by using oils without the heavy additives. ------------- |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: March-03-2007 at 11:02am
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My LHS has 180000 on it, never seen synthetic, never seen mobil one, never seen a oil change at 3000 either. great marketing on the lube stop's part, pop open your owners manual and look at recommended oil change intervals you'll be surprised. things get beat into your head and you start believing it. I'll change my oil every 4 to 5 k with coastal from autozone and I'll skip filters every other time. its not being cheap its being wise. You can tell the engines that go every 20000 compared to the engines that go 5 to 7 on oil changes ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: March-03-2007 at 11:07am
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TR, the key word is carbed, if you remember back in the day you were lucky to get 100000 miles out of a motor, thats because of the carb, a carb has a tendency to overfuel and not atomize the fuel in turn washed down the cylinders drastically shortening the life of the engine, todays injected cars are precise on fuel delivery and complete atomizing af the gasoline drastically increasing the life of the engine ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: March-03-2007 at 1:54pm
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The Boat Dr. is a firm advocate of Castrol products,in the South "I" use 20/50 in every thing i own or maintain, that goes for boats that are serviced here also.I buy 55gals.at a time,no plastic bottles to clutter my shop.
My stroker has seen nothing but Rotella,and a FL 1A FOMOCO filter.I'm on the same page as Eric,if people put a little more work into changing oil and filter 2500/3500 miles it would prolong engine more than Any additives or synthetic......... ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: March-03-2007 at 2:12pm
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I would say judging from this thread that if something is working for you,just stick with it.
My sisters husband is not a maintanance guy.He unintentionally tested the longevity of petroleum oil in a new Jeep Liberty.Went about 19,000 miles without even checking the oil.He didn't even know it was low until the "engine rebuild" light came on...too late! Cost him $5000 for a new engine,vehicle less than 2 years old.That's alotta oil changes for $5k.And no,I don't let him use my boat.Ever. FWIW,a friend is a tech at the local Chrysler garage,and during this incident he was telling me that the new Chrysler motors will only last an average of 12,000 miles if you run dino oil and do not change it.They won't warranty a failure if you don't have a reciept for an oil change within the last 7000 miles before the failure occurs. Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: March-03-2007 at 4:26pm
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Here is an interesting comparison of oil filters:
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html#conclusion - Oil Filter Study http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters.html - Overview and recomendations from study I will NOT use a Fram oil filter after reading this. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: March-03-2007 at 5:36pm
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Well, I'm almost apologetic for not posting for sooo long but work has really exploded. I have been traveling for over 6 months and I just now got a week off and I am at the home 20. I pulled the cover off the '68 to look for mud dobber nests and to my surprise there was none - just some mildew.
Anyway, I have to chime in my vote on the syn oil discussion. If it floats you boat spend your money on that high dollar syn oil - go for it. Me? I'll stick to what's been working well for almost 60 years. BTW, my s.o. just traded in her Caravan she'd been running Mobil 1 in since new and at 140K miles it was burning oil, leaking oil and dead butt worn out.It had to be towed to the used car lot. Before that she had a Caravan she put over 200K troublefree miles on with "dino" oil. Today she runs "dino" oil in her Town & Country. She changes her oil and filter religously at around 4K to 5K miles and always has. Personally, I put syn oil in a new Town Car back in the 90s. At 100K it too leaked like a seive. No more syn oil for this guy. In my experience, the syn oil may lube well but some seals seem to have a problem with it. ------------- Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang |
Posted By: The Lake
Date Posted: March-03-2007 at 5:39pm
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Jim
Good to see you back! I hope you can get that 68 out and shake out a few cobwebs. Chuck ------------- Walk on Water www.coldwater.me http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=775&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970 - 69 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: reidp
Date Posted: March-03-2007 at 11:21pm
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Damn! My buddy J.I.H. comes back on line and I'm contradicting. Well not exacttly, but my 315,000 mile 5.0 98 Explorer has been running Havoline Syn since just before 200,000. I asked the quick lube mgr at that point if I should start running one of the "high mileage" oils you hear advertised and he shrugged and suggested syn for the long haul. At the time I didn't think I'd keep the truck this much longer, but guys it still runs great and has never leaked a drop, in my home or office parking spot, and I've never had to add a drop. That's just my auto story. In the boats I've switched to syn in two of them, but have no preference or case history as we only avg a few hrs a year. But darned if it doesn't seem like every one leaks oil, dino or syn, but most of ours are quite old. ------------- ReidP /diaries/details.asp?ID=231&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 1973 Mustang |
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: March-03-2007 at 11:54pm
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While we're talking about synthetic, ever wonder why it goes up in price when dino oil increases? Why?, no petroluem in it. I use 10w 30 Castrol in all my 4Runners, the 86 has 241,000 miles on it. Not too fond of using 20/50. I ran one vehicle (not a 4runner)with synthetic from day one, and what extra I spent verses dino oil, I spent enough in oil (3500 at changes) to rebuild the engine, and at about 120,000 miles it started leaking alot. If you really want to see a difference on a vehicle, install an oil cooler, you can drive several thousand miles and the oil stays new looking. I use 30 wt Havoline in my boat. ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: March-04-2007 at 9:51am
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heres a good one on oil, i was driving a 82 Chevette back forth to work approximatly 32 miles each way for around 2 years, well it had a pretty bad oil leak and i was younger and dumber then and lazy.
it was getting expensive with buying the oil so i decided to use the oil in the drain buckets anything could be in those buckets, gear oil, trans oil etc... i know i ran it that way for at least a year and it still ran when i sold it ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: weitekampt
Date Posted: March-04-2007 at 7:45pm
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Thanks for all the info and experience guys. Sorry for being late to chime back in, but I have been away from the computer for some time.
Looks like I will be sticking with the tried and true methods. I was wondering though, I was told by my CC dealer that I was to run straight 40W. I did on the last oil change, but wondering why I couldn't use 10W40. I think it would be ok to. But what is all the talk about 15W40? I would be happy to run that because I always have that around for my diesel truck. Is that what I SHOULD be using? Thanks! ------------- 1993 SkiNautique ProTec 2009 Boatmate trailer. 1240 hours on meter. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1559&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - 1993 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: March-04-2007 at 7:57pm
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Todd, PCM's official recommendation for our motors is to run either straight 30w or 40w. I think its been discussed on here that a blended oil (10w40, 15w40, 20w50, etc) may give a little more protection during cold starts. I think 15w40 is the official recommendation for new PCM motors.
Bottom line, if you run a good quality oil and filter and change it every 50 hrs, you wont have any problems. ------------- |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: March-05-2007 at 8:28am
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Read the manual. My 1988 PCM manual recommends 10w30, or 20w40, but also has a chart that indicates 20w, 30w, or 40w. I use 10w30 dino.
Indmar currently recommends 15w40. They say synthetic is ok, but the service intervales should not be extended. Anyone remember awhile back when Mastercraft was touting Mobile One, and extending their warrantees because of it? They went back to dino for some reason. |
Posted By: 79Tique
Date Posted: March-07-2007 at 6:46pm
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I was told to run 10w30 in my Tique with a 302 Commander and have been doing so. I buy Chevron Delo 15w40 in bulk for my company trucks with Cummins Diesels and would like to use that oil. Is 15w40 not to thick for the 302 with low hours?
Also on the synthetic topic my business owns a couple dozen snowmobiles (most two strokes but some Four) we started using Red Line synthetic oils and our engine life on the sleds has increased from 9000-11000 miles to 16000-18000 on the two strokes and well over 30,000 on the four strokes. I have not used the Red Line oils in the trucks because of the cost. With the oil capacity of a Cummins Diesel Pickup a Red Line oil change comes to about $200. With the Chevron Delo one truck has 310K and the older one has 465K, both motors have had no work and still do not burn oil. ------------- Work to live, not live to work. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: March-07-2007 at 7:41pm
Nope, its not too thick. Considering we usually use our boats in warmer temperatures and are constantly running very high loads, the thicker oil is appropriate. ------------- |
Posted By: emccallum
Date Posted: March-12-2007 at 10:58am
| FWIW..here in SC it is hot in the summer, and I run 40W dino change it at 50hours. I do run synthetic in my cars. |
Posted By: bchesley
Date Posted: March-13-2007 at 8:41am
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Lots of good info hear but I have a different opinion on using synthetics. I do agree that an older boat should use dino in the engine. Newer boats I really dont see a problem with it. Most of the older cars and boats were not designed to use the newer style oils. I am not sure if it is SI or SM, but they have taken zinc out of the newer oils. The older engines need that additive. Rotella and I believe Valvoline still have it. You can also add an STP oil additive that has zinc in it if you want to run a different specific brand. I learned this after a cam lost a lobe in a new engine in my 83 Jeep. The newer engines are designed for the new oil and will see no ill effects. My Dodge truck came from the factory with Dino oil in it, however, Cummins says that a switch to synthetic is a good thing once the motor is broken in properly. I have been running Royal Purple for almost 60K changing it every 6-7k. I will continue to use it in my truck. I do all the fluid changes my self to keep cost down. I also use nothing but the best filters too, boat and truck.
I was always told that an ounce of prevention was worth a pould of cure........ Brad |
Posted By: David F
Date Posted: March-15-2007 at 11:00am
Tim, not true. Redline and Amsoil are the only true synthetics. All the others are simply ultra refined dyno oil (or a blend of dino and synthetic). Ultra refined means all the parafin and other bad things tha cause "regular" oil to use up the additives have been removed. So, Mobile 1 is really dino oil, but good dino oil...so price of oil goes up, so does Mobil 1. The oil industry (or governing body) allows the use of "synthetic" for ultra refined dyno oil since it does not have the impurities of conventional dino oil and thus behaves similiarly to true synthetic. Dont believe me, look it up. ------------- |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: March-30-2007 at 9:27am
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Because im a cheap bastard i didnt use synthetic in this VW 1.8 turbo.
Lesson learned, it is very sludged up and speaking with a true vw mechanic he repairs alot of these engines including removing the pan to try to clean the pick up screen for the no synthetic users....like me. well what happens is the turbos run at very high temps and the normal oil sludges due to this. synthetics wont sludge and that truly is an advantage to synthetic oil. im going to splurdge this time. with non turbo engines normal oil is fine ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: March-30-2007 at 11:14am
| Awe geez, now the consensus switches back to syn. I guess I'll just stick to my original plan, syn in the '03 Indmar 310, and dino in the '88 PCM 240. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-30-2007 at 12:10pm
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Eric, I have over 200K on my turbo diesel 1995 Suburban and have always used the dino oil. Is the 15-40 diesel oil made so it doesn't sludge with the high temp of the turbo? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: March-30-2007 at 2:26pm
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always controversy...
put in what the manual calls for ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: March-30-2007 at 3:26pm
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Good thread men. This answers (sort of) part of my question over on the alignment topic.
Eric, my problem is I have no manual. It sounds like the dino 15-40 that I buy 300gal at a time will work well with my '85 454. We run in some cold weather here in MI during April and Sept/Nov. Anyone know what the manual says for the older 454's? ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: March-30-2007 at 3:37pm
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pbrainard the Gas turbos see dramtically higher sustained exhaust tempertures than a deisel.
Your GM 6.5 sees 3-400 degrees at cruise, the vdub could be 1100. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-30-2007 at 4:25pm
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Tom, Thanks I never knew that the diesels exhaust ran cooler than gas. Is it just the combustion temp of diesel?
Eric, At least with my 95 with the door bottoms rusting off I won't get the extra dummy charge if I use it to pull a boat in to your shop for repair!! It has given me good service and I do not have a fancy car in the garage! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: March-30-2007 at 5:39pm
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Tullfooter the guy at midwest CC says straight 40 all year round for the 454. I told him I like to ski late in the fall. He said it wouldn't hurt it any just turns over a little harder and needs an extra minute or two to warm up at the dock. ------------- |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: March-30-2007 at 5:55pm
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Not quite Pete,
The diesel charge is flooded with air and only a portion is used for combustion, the rest is mass that absorbs the heat of combustion and expands, thus cooling itself. Unless one is WOT and fully fuelled, and using up all the air, then combustion temps can see 11-1300. But at WOT, a gas turbo sees a few hundred even more than that, I believe. Plus ,the greater expansion incurred in the diesel exhaust stroke tends to cool things down before they hit the turbo. Thats why on your truck if you up the boost via wastegate and leave the max fuel alone, EGT drops. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: March-30-2007 at 8:03pm
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BFN... If im not mistaken a sae 40 which is straight oil has no detergents in it to clean the internals, I may be wrong, this is from memory.
Gottaski you are right on the money, back when i went to diesel school we would run trucks on the chassis dyno at full fuel and full load, the exhaust side of the turbo and the exhaust manifold glowed a bright red to where you could actually see the exhaust gases flowing through them ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: bchesley
Date Posted: March-30-2007 at 11:47pm
| Pistons dont like 1500 degrees for long periods of time no matter what fuel you burn. My cummins diesel is only slightly modifed and I can peg my 1500 degree pyrometer. Just normal intown driving it will see 900-1000 and crusing highway unloaded about 600-700. That is a big reason I chose syn for the truck. Go with rotella T and you cant go wrong for either vehicles. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: March-31-2007 at 8:45am
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another good one... the school warned us about the old detroit diesels running away, well my cousin was going to school with me and he set up the govonor on a 6-71...i believe... well they fired that thing and it shot up to about 20000 rpms and they shut the intake door over the blower and it started sucking oil internally and burning the oil as a fuel. its one of those things that stick in your mind and you dont forget the sound that thing made or the white smoke it was blowing from the oil burning ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: March-31-2007 at 9:18am
How did you shut it down, or did it blow up? |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: March-31-2007 at 9:30am
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We've had the same thing happen on a 4-53 Detroit on one of uor fork lifts. An oil line broke to the blower. The oil goes strait to the cylnders and acts as the fuel. The emergency flip door on the intake of the blower shut it down before it blew up. You've never heard an engine scream until you've witnessed this.
Anyone seen a Detroit accidentally run backwards? ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: March-31-2007 at 9:31am
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We've had the same thing happen on a 4-53 Detroit on one of uor fork lifts. An oil line broke to the blower. The oil goes strait to the cylnders and acts as the fuel. The emergency flip door on the intake of the blower shut it down before it blew up. You've never heard an engine scream until you've witnessed this.
Anyone ever witnessed a Detroit accidentally run backwards? ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: March-31-2007 at 9:41am
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Nope not yet. Resleeved a 6V53T and all went well. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-01-2007 at 9:10am
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its something you wont forget, they finally shut it down with a fire exstingusher, it was a 150000 sq ft building and it was filled with thick smoke ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: April-02-2007 at 7:47pm
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Eric I am pretty sure it still has the detergents in it. Jeff at midwest said that's what they put in all the BFN's when they shipped out for delivery and that's the oil they ran in the python motors also. ------------- |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-03-2007 at 7:30am
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Im not sure Jim, for some reason that sticks in my head. next time you get some read the contianer cause im curious too. im 50/50 on this one ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: April-03-2007 at 8:05am
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I just bought some Castrol HD40 straight 40 wt. It has detergents in it. Says so right on the container. I think they did used to make straight 30 and 40 non-detergent. For some reason I remember my dad using non-detergent straight weight oil in a tractor at one time... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: April-03-2007 at 8:29am
| IIRC, the HD stands for High Detergent. If it says just 40, or 30, it doesn't have detergents. |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: April-03-2007 at 8:42am
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Go figure...I thought the HD meant Heavy Duty. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-03-2007 at 8:46am
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im looking at an oil right now and it i says SAE ND 30, it says non detergent, so its a matter of reading the labels, a good qaulity oil will always have the API, certificate on the container. if it doesnt stay clear of that oil. read where they were manufactured and alot of the oils are the same just labeled differently and priced accordingly ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: April-03-2007 at 5:12pm
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Eric, not sure if you have any Car Quest auto parts stores down by you. But Car Quest oil is brand name oil, just in a car quest bottle. The straight 40 weight I use does have detergents I checked. ------------- |
Posted By: Mark P
Date Posted: April-08-2007 at 1:04pm
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On either the History or Discovery channel, there recently was a show on lubricants. The shows explained that synthetic oils were developed for use in a wide variety of as well as extreme conditions where regular oils would not perform as needed or hold up over time. The show explained that standard oil has impurities in it that attract moisture and dirt that bonds with the molecules over time as the oil breaks down. Additves help to address this. On the other hand, synthetic oils are made in very controlled precesses resulting in very uniform molecules which provide the lubricating properties and life based upon design.
Based upon the above as well as feedback I have heard from both users and mechanics, I am now a believer in synthic oils. I use syntheics in my truck and I am planning on switching to synthetic oil as soon as my 05 Nautique engine is out of warranty. I still plan on changing the oil every 50 hours since the inboard engine is "always under a load" when running as well as sits underneath the cal in a hotter than normal environment. |