Transmission squeal
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6767
Printed Date: November-16-2024 at 10:15pm
Topic: Transmission squeal
Posted By: khearne
Subject: Transmission squeal
Date Posted: May-21-2007 at 4:25pm
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I am a new CC owner. Purchased a 92 Sport Natique in February. I have had it out about 5 times. Loving the boat so far! I have noticed that when I start the boat and rev up while in neutrel, I get a short loud squeal from the motor box (sound like transmission). I have checked the fluid and everything looks fine. Can anyone account for what makes the squeal. How concerned should I be?
JKH ------------- First time cc owner |
Replies:
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: May-21-2007 at 4:56pm
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Are you running the boat out of water? Sounds like the transmission is creeping a little in neutral. Maybe Eric will chime in, but its normal to a certain degree. ------------- |
Posted By: khearne
Date Posted: May-21-2007 at 5:43pm
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I usually hit the ignition before I go to the lake to avoid any suprises when I get there. I have heard the noise both in and out of the water. It does not occur during normal operations. Just when I rev in neutrel. Not real concerned because It does not really need to be rev'ed in neutrel to start. I just like to be aware of unusual sounds to avoid future problems.
Thanks for the quick reply! ------------- First time cc owner |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-22-2007 at 5:29am
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Kyle, The surprise you may be getting is burning up the rubber RWP impeller from running the engine out of the water. Don't do it! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-22-2007 at 6:57am
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im with pete, sounds like a impeller, always fire the boat in the water, try it and see if you hear the squeal ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: May-22-2007 at 10:16am
Sounds to me like it could be a alt./RWP belt that is a bit on the loose side. Check the tension on both and tighten if necessary. Check for cracks or glazing too. One or both might need to be replaced. |
khearne wrote:Posted By: David F
Date Posted: May-22-2007 at 10:21am
Hogwash. checking to see if the engine cranks and fires when on the trailer will NOT harm the impellar as the engine is not running long enough for the impellar to be damaged from friction induced heat. I have been doing the same practice for 20 years and have NEVER damaged an impellar in doing so. Less than a 5 second run will do no harm! Revving the engine excessively and running for more than say 10 seconds, might damage the impellar. But, I can say that I have done it on occasion when forgetting to turn the hose back on. I immediately pull the impellar to check its condition and am always amazed at the toughness of the impellar. My thoughts are that people that have impellar failures NEVER check them and leave them in service until failure. ------------- |
Posted By: Mojo
Date Posted: May-22-2007 at 10:31am
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I'm not even close to being qualified to answer these questions, but I have heard the same howl out of what seems to be the trans when dry starting the motor.. What I found was its a squeal that comes from a dry shaft support.. Once in the water the noise dissapears..
Try wetting the shaft down or give it a shot of WD-40 or lubricant and it'll be gone.. Just my 2-cents and experience.. Moj  ------------- 05' SV211 TE 73' Martinique had:96' SNOB had:76' Nautique had 77 Tique |
Posted By: David F
Date Posted: May-22-2007 at 10:35am
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I agree, I never put the trans in gear when out of the water. It will make a horrible racket. ------------- |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: May-22-2007 at 10:55am
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Guys, you're over-thinking this. It only happens when revving it in neutral, in or out of water. No problems under normal operating conditions. One of the belts is slipping while giving it a quick rev in neutral. Can't rev that fast in gear to cause the same noise.
Check your belts. Agree with David F too on starting while on the trailer. Doesn't hurt at all for a few seconds. Been doing it for years. I always crank it over to make sure that the starter is working and the battery is good enough to crank the starter. Since I put the MSD dist. and ignition in, I can't help but fire it as soon as the key is touched when doing this. |
Posted By: Mojo
Date Posted: May-22-2007 at 11:16am
Backfoot, yes, duh !!! neutral+ Rev, then squeal= belt.. told ya I wasn't qualified 
Moj' ------------- 05' SV211 TE 73' Martinique had:96' SNOB had:76' Nautique had 77 Tique |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: May-22-2007 at 11:18am
| Someone put a little to long belt on my alternator and it squeels like a pig when you rap the throttle. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-23-2007 at 4:46am
David, I do feel that running a rubber impeller dry will harm it. I saw it first hand at the ramp at a show I was at. It was saturday morning and all the members were launching. One had started his engine and was reving it. We warned he that he could damage his impeller but he said no he does this all the time. Well, he got it in the lake and no cooling! Later that day at cocktails, a group of us were discussing Georges impeller problem and two other people stated they have seen other blow impellers from the same practice. As you commented, you only run your engine for a couple of seconds and in that case there is probably enough water left in the pump to lubricate it. The newer urethane compounds used to make the impellers are helpful too. It is a tougher rubber with a lower coefficient of friction than the old nitrial or buna N rubbers. You are also one of the people who put in a new impeller before waiting for failure. The bottom line is that the RWP is a water lubricated pump. I'm sure you wouldn't think about running your engine without oil. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-23-2007 at 6:58am
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Pete, if anyone would fire a boat out of water it would be me, but guess what that is one of my number one rules ...make sure you have water going to it, Ive walked away from boats for a couple of seconds while running with muffs on and they'll slip and smoked the pumps.
with this practice you could definitely tell which guys fire them out of the water and which guys never fire them unless they are in water, you may not think you are damaging them but in fact you are. its like heating up a chisel and quickly cooling it, it does cause the buna to harden and crystalize, no physical change to the eye but you are in fact changing the properties of the rubber shortening the life of the impeller ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: May-23-2007 at 7:17am
I second that ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-23-2007 at 8:27am
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if it fires on land it will fire on the trailer in the water, some habits are hard to break ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: May-23-2007 at 9:07am
If it don't fire in the water, you've made a trip to the launch and boating plans in vain. Now you get to go all the way back home pissed because your plans have been ruined and try to figure out why it didn't fire. At least if you tried to fire it before you even left home, you have a chance to look at it quick to try and fix it and you can call your boating partners to tell them to hold up until you can confirm or cancel the plans before they make the trip to the launch also. I've seen that happen way too many times. No thanks, I'll fire it on trailer before I even leave the garage. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: 6strings
Date Posted: May-23-2007 at 9:14am
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I'm with ya Eddie. I always fire it up before leaving home. A couple of seconds and I've never had a problem. I do change the impellar at least every two seasons.
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Posted By: David F
Date Posted: May-23-2007 at 9:15am
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I think it is funny that the same guys who insist that the pump never be run dry for even 5 seconds or less are the same guys that insist you replace the impellar every two years regardless of the condition. I can gaurantee that if you replace the impellar every two years, that firing on the trailer to see if it runs (PLEASE NOTE THAT I AM NOT CONDONING REVVING THE ENGINE) will not cause an impellar failure before it is change anyway.
Sheesh! ------------- |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-23-2007 at 3:20pm
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well you do what you will with your money and time, it is up to you, I was simply stating facts.
your next post might be i cant figure why my engine is running a little hot, maybe its from the stiff impeller. whats it take to put a fake a lake on it and fire it, 5 minutes maybe? saves you that 1 hour trip to the lake. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: David F
Date Posted: May-23-2007 at 3:36pm
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Eric:
How often do you replace the impellar in your boat? ------------- |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: May-23-2007 at 4:19pm
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I understand what you're saying Eric as far as weakening the rubber of an impeller and I would agree with that to some extent. I guess this is my take on it. When I fire it on the trailer, it's well under 5 seconds and doesn't get revved. Even if it doesn't start, at least it pops off so I immediately know that it will start when I get to the launch. Most often, it starts though and gets shut off immediately. I don't see how that much time will ruin an impeller. I change my impeller every year by the way, and I've never had a blade on the impeller even look deformed let alone missing or cracked. I guess that's why I never understand how you guys always harp on making sure parts of impellers are dug out of water jackets when there are cooling problems. If it's done yearly as part of regular maintenance, you should not be breaking an impeller blade or even damaging it enough to warrant problems, unless some sort of defect comes into question.
------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: May-23-2007 at 8:30pm
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backfoot, jmho,but some of these boats are 30 to40 years old and a problem will rear its nasty head years later.
There is not room here to tell some of the issues I address everyday as a result of poor workmanship, ignorance and just plain stupidity. Don't assume cause it ain't happened to you it won't. issue at point: There are two types of sailors; Those that have left the plug out..... Those that WILL LEAVE THE PLUG OUT.... Which are you?????? ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-23-2007 at 9:22pm
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I think you may be sending a negative signal out to perhaps people that are new to boats.
you dont eat the donuts when you work at the donut shop, so i guess what im saying is, i change only when i have too, so i make sure i get the longest life out of it, im lazy when it comes to maintanance on my stuff, when it breaks thats when i fix it, and to that point i dont have to pay someone $80.00 an hour to have it repaired. Believe it or not I get a ton of calls from people who read this site and alot of guys i talk to dont post and are new to boating and use this site as thier bible, they seek information because they really dont know and they look to guys such as your self and others for the correct way to do things. they may mis-interpret that running thier boats out of the water is acceptable and truly it really isnt ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-24-2007 at 5:43am
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I got home yesterday and went into my records to find out when I replaced the impellers in my 312. It was 1989. On my Atom I didn't have to look but know I put one in when I rebuilt the engine. It went into the water in 1985 but does have low hours. That's 22 years for one and 18 for the other. Wow, maybe I'm getting good impeller life because I NEVER run them without water!
Try draging a dry window squeege across a dry window. Wet it down and try it again. Any difference? If you run it in the driveway at home hooked up to the hose and then can't even make it to the water at the landing before starting it again, then you have a problem. How about a tune up guys! This annual replacement of impellers is overkill. I feel it was started by marinas that learned from Jiffy Lube that small maintenance items can be money makers. It's irritating to be sitting waiting for your oil to be changed and have the "oil Technician" come in and show you your dirty air filter and then tell you it's only $25. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: May-24-2007 at 8:48am
ROFL!!!!! Definitely have left it out and the first to admit it!!!!! ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: May-24-2007 at 9:17am
I absolutely agree. They could also get the impression that not changing the impeller until too late is acceptable also which it really isn't. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: May-24-2007 at 9:23am
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Interesting conversation, my practice has been very similar to Pete's in that my impeller is only replaced when it needs to be, remove it and inspect every fall as well as always keep a spare on hand, with that I have never had to replace an impeller, in fact I recently gave Hollywood all my old spares still new in box that would not fit my current boat cause I never needed them.
Starting the motor for a few seconds without a water feed is probably no big deal either particularly for mechanically sound guy's like David, Eddie, etc., most likely the remaining water in your intake is moving through the system and providing some lube, not something I do personally or would recommend, hopefully you guy's that do that bring your spare impeller and tools to the lake cause one day you may need em. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: David F
Date Posted: May-24-2007 at 9:25am
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This should get people blood flowing: When I had my Martinique with the CC drive on trailer, I used to load the boat by driving on the trailer and leave the engine running (abit above idle speed) AND in forward gear. My buddy (or wife) would then pull the boat/trailer out of the water. Once the prop cleared the water, I would shut the engine off. Kept the bow of the boat tight against the crash pads and by apply a bit of rudder, I could keep the stern of the boat centered between the posts.
Never burned up an impellar....NEVER. Have at me boys. ------------- |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: May-24-2007 at 11:37am
Oh My God David, you and I have to be thinking the same thing!!!!! I've had to do that to help get a tow vehicle off the launch. If you have extremely low water levels or an extremely steep ramp (or both) and a 2-wheel drive vehicle that is spinning the wheels, you're only alternative is to do exactly what David says to get the tow vehicle moving off the ramp (or call a tow truck). Been there, done that!!! Works great too. Like David said, haven't lost an impeller yet. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: May-24-2007 at 11:56am
Did this on our 58 Trojan for 20 years. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: Barracuda
Date Posted: May-24-2007 at 10:46pm
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Wow- this thread got a lot of mileage for a loose belt. My buddy's MC has old worn out belts and it squeels every time he fires it up in the water.
replace/ tighten the belts and if that doesn't solve the problem, you've at least removed one variable from your troubleshooting list. Good Luck ------------- Former: http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=759" rel="nofollow - '86 Nautique http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=507" rel="nofollow - '65 Barracuda |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-25-2007 at 8:31am
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I actually thoght it was a mouse on the boat ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-25-2007 at 8:57am
I thought that MC's always squeel! Sort of like a stuck pig! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: May-25-2007 at 9:03am
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Pete,that is like saying your best friends old lady is not just ugly but she is fat too.
We have to love them all,not everyone CAN OWN A C/C..........boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-25-2007 at 9:35am
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mopeds...fun to ride ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: gigem75
Date Posted: May-29-2008 at 9:15pm
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We're going to have to get our stories straight. In another thread it was stated that the water the the cylinders probably came from him not draining the engine before he pulled the heads. If that is correct then there should be water at the rwp which would provide the lubrication for a second or two of running. If not, the debate continues....
I tend to go with that if you understand what is happening when the engine is running you won't let it run long enough to do any harm. That's why some have never had a problem. It's the people who have no clue as to what is going on down there that imho tend to have all sorts of problems with their machines. |
Posted By: behindpropeller
Date Posted: May-29-2008 at 10:43pm
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If you want to see if it turns over in your driveway, pop the cap off of the coil.
My guess is that your prop is turning when you start it in nuetral, and the shaft is rubbing on the cutlass bearing. ------------- |