What do my plugs say?
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7085
Printed Date: September-29-2024 at 12:48pm
Topic: What do my plugs say?
Posted By: sjpitts
Subject: What do my plugs say?
Date Posted: June-14-2007 at 11:46am
|
In the process of trying to fix my sputtering problem, I changed my plugs. When I pulled them they seemed a little overly black, and there was noticable oil on the threads.
These plugs were installed last spring by the boat mechanics. They are one step hotter than the stock 24s. The plugs have maybe 50 hours on them. The engine is an 89 PCM 351, and has 750+ hours on it. The engine was run the day before I pulled the plugs while I set the timing. I don't really know how to read plugs. What do they say? Jared 
|
Replies:
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: June-14-2007 at 1:29pm
|
They say AC Delco goes in a GM, Autolite plugs for FoMoCo engines.
other than that , it appears they are oil soaked, the oil film on the treads, and possible rich condition also. float level too high,choke not opening. Run a compression test,looks like it needs to see a Doctor.............boar dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-14-2007 at 6:37pm
|
you really need a shot of the inside of the tip not a side profile. The oil on the threads could be from a leaky valve cover anti-seaz.
lots of carbon, very rich running motor but does need autolite plugs. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: sjpitts
Date Posted: June-14-2007 at 9:52pm
I replaced the plugs with autolite 24s. I think it is running rich. That will have to be my next task. But what causes the oil soak? I had a compression test, the numbers were not that good on one side. Jared |
boat dr wrote:Posted By: sjpitts
Date Posted: June-14-2007 at 9:53pm
I will try and get a better picture. Jared |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-14-2007 at 10:14pm
it looks like realy only one plug has an oil issue. This can be caused by a couple of things. A leaky valve cover and the oil is running to that plug and whicking thru the threads, not likely. Another is the valve guide seal is worn and oil is leaking into the cyl thru the valve stem/guide. Or it could be a bad oil ring on the piston for the cylinder. usually you can use a little hotter plug in the cylinder with the oil leak to help keep it burnt off untill the rest of the engine goes and you need to rebuild it's strickly a temporary band-aid ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: June-15-2007 at 3:52am
Jared, I was a Chevy nut long before I ever owned a boat with a Ford engine and I always used AC spark plugs. The reason I'm telling you this is because I have a little experience with heat ranges on these plugs. You say that the boat mechanic installed these plugs and that they are 1 heat range hotter than stock. I can tell you from experience that an R43TS plug is NOT a hot plug. Common ranges on AC plugs are from 42 to 46 (highest number being the hottest). The 43 is on the cold side. If you have an engine that is not completely oil tight, a hotter plug is what you may need and the R43 is definitely not it. I'm not exactly sure what number heat range of Autolite crosses to what number of AC. But I know when I ran my 1959 Chris Craft with a 327 Chevy and late model 76cc heads, I used R44TS plugs in it. This was a newly built engine that did not burn any oil. The point I'm trying to make here is that you may need to go with an Autolite 25 (hotter). ------------- 95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
Posted By: gigem75
Date Posted: June-15-2007 at 10:30am
| If you can cross match to an NGK plug you might give that a shot. They are by far and away the best plugs on the market, IMHO. But as stated above a shot at an angle showing more of the ceraminc insulator would tell more. |
Posted By: gigem75
Date Posted: June-15-2007 at 10:40am
|
If you can cross match to an NGK plug you might give that a shot. They are by far and away the best plugs on the market, IMHO. But as stated above a shot at an angle showing more of the ceraminc insulator would tell more.
If you get white smoke only on start up, chances are you have worn valve guides. You can also squirt a teaspoon of oil in the suspect cylinder and check the compression. If it jumps up, it's rings. If it stays about the same it's a valve seat. Either way it sounds, like stated above. it's getting real close for a visit to the engine builder. |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: June-15-2007 at 10:48pm
|
gigem75, put those NGK plug in you Honda lawnmore or your Toyota truck, but don't tell him to follow in your wake of oblivion.
That motor,Ford , will run at its peak with the parts that came from the factory,any moron can see they are oil fouled. And seeing more of the insulator wont help the condition of the rings or other issues related to mechanical integrity . NGK Plugs ain't gonna fix it BUBBA...............boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: gigem75
Date Posted: June-16-2007 at 9:14pm
|
boat dr, you obviously didn't read my post correctly but rather saw red with the mention of NGK plugs. Although NGK plugs do seem to resist fouling better than other plugs I never said it would fix his problem period, got that? The color of the insulator is what you look at when reading plugs. They give the best indication of what's going on. A better look at them would help and sorry if you can't understand that. Back to the NGK.... I don't own a honda or a toyota. I've been building engines for over 30 years and NGK plugs burn better than any plug I've ever seen. That business about Ford engines running better on autolite plugs or the plugs that came from the factory with the engine than it would on another brand of spark plug is pure bs plain and simple.
again please point out to me where I said seeing more of the insulator would help determine the mechanical integrity of the engine? and only one of those plugs looks like it's oil fouled but a better shot of the insulator would help much more than moronic posts. |
Posted By: gigem75
Date Posted: June-16-2007 at 10:08pm
|
btw, my lawnmower is a 1968 International Harvester Cub Cadet. I wonder how it lasted so long???? hummm
1970 911T, runs perfectly, can you tune 6 downdrafts? 1980 240D running on B-100, wonder who makes that? better yet who maintains it. ah crap, I own a rice burner pickup, wonder how it got to 200K? 82 01 tique, 351w pcm, totally rebuilt 2 years ago by guess who? It's the simplest engine I own. |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: June-17-2007 at 7:53am
|
gigem75,that Kohler will run for years with no maint,even with a NGK plug.The word here is BASIC ENGINEERING. The Webers are so simple a computer geek can build them,but they are a bitch to sync.
Sounds like a M/B,Somebody gotta buy that German "sh*t" The Porche YES<YES<YES,the M/B NOT I asume the truck is a Nissan or Toy Truck,again they will go 200K with an oil change every 5000,bet you use fram filters too......... You missed the point all together about the plugs,Put the parts back in that came in the unit. Be that plugs ,oil or filters, it is called an OWNERS MAN. Now back to the plugs,don't know about you but,I don't need to see all of a TURD to know what it is, a shot of either end and a small whiff are all it takes... They plugs are trashed and the motor not far behind and running NGK or Autolites ain't gonna fix it,I dont need to look 6 feet up a bulls ass to see you talkin Bull Shi** ...................boat dr Do you run NGK glow plugs in that M/B,didn't think so......I rest my case ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-17-2007 at 10:48am
|
Doc it's funny you guys chatting about Ben'z, My girlfriend's Dad has a late model Ben'z SUV which he hates and which he'll never buy another Ben'z of any model. The service guys at the dealer and the charges should be a law for that, ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: gigem75
Date Posted: June-17-2007 at 3:08pm
|
Doc and Not, they go pretty well together. I've got a link to a reading comprehension course, I'll post it for you. You obviously never read my last sentence so here is is again.." Either way it sounds, like stated above. it's getting real close for a visit to the engine builder." got that, want me to repeat it.. Either way it sounds, like stated above. it's getting real close for a visit to the engine builder."
btw, it looks to me like only one of the plugs is oil fouled. In any event I stand by my statement that NGK plugs resist fouling better than any plug I've ever run. He could try them to get him down the lake and buy him some time but like I said but which you didn't read, it's probably time for a rebuild. You can talk smack all you want but it ain't gonna change the facts. If it makes you feel better to attack with your gutter comments which I suspect is to mask some sort of personality defect rather than engaging in a mature conversation/debate then knock yourself out. Do you really think Ford is going to tell you to go buy parts other than Ford parts even if the after market parts perform better? I don't think so. |
Posted By: JR_VIC
Date Posted: June-17-2007 at 3:25pm
|
I personally use NGK plugs in my wife's Denali with a 6.0 and used them in my previous truck which also had a 6.0 and they worked great and smoothed out the idle. I also have used them in all of my motorcycles and jetskis with great results.
With that being said, when my last set of heads were still on the boat (GT40 351W) right after I installed them I expirimented with three different sets of plugs which were Bosch, NGK, and splitfires. The Bosch plugs started OK but the engine felt very flat and sounded weird. The splitfires kept fouling and was not happy. The NGK plugs in this particular application idled extremely rough and the engine was very hard to start cold. I went back to the double platinum autolites and those have worked the best for me. Hope that helps. Thanks! ------------- "That's not a Snow Cone that's my Ring!" |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: June-17-2007 at 10:21pm
|
Gigem,sounds like a fitting handle.Did you read the above post, these motors are a little different than that Kohler or that rice burner.........
I don't run them cause FoMoCo says so, I run them cause they last longer, and would rather send time on the lake inside my boat,than inside my boat on the trailer........ How long have you had this problem with your eyes and your comprehension or should i say giving advice????? I see seven plugs oil fouled, one is pumping oil real bad,and telling him to squirt oil in a dead cly. sounds like "late for the date" Hang around this site for a while and see how we play this game, not YOUR GAME.Don't care what you drive or how much money you make, or how many letters you have BEHIND YOUR NAME...... Be carful when you give advice here ,there are some members that will blow you out of the water,opinions we don't need,TELL ME HOW TO FIX IT...............boat dr You can talk smack all you want but it ain't gonna change the facts. If it makes you feel better to attack with your gutter comments which I suspect is to mask some sort of personality defect rather than engaging in a mature conversation/debate then knock yourself out. 79, show this gigem what smack is all about,what post did you blow me out with,let me change the wording,POSTS........ ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: gigem75
Date Posted: June-17-2007 at 11:07pm
|
I can see I'm going to have to talk very simply here. He can also have a burned valve. He has low compression on one side remember????? Squirting oil in the cylinder is a diagnostic tool that will tell him if he does. If you read that as me telling him that would fix his problem then all I can say here is what we have is failure to communicate and it ain't me. I can't say that any simpler. Like I said it's probably time for a rebuild but he'll have a better idea of what to expect from someone who might try and rip him off and NGK plugs might run a little better until he does rebuild.
You can't see squat on the plugs on the upper left except an underexposed tip that looks black with no detail. Go run your boat with the choke engaged for an hour, chop, and photograph, post photos, we'll see.......... Let's see here,, you've attacked me just about every way possible, I can't wait to see what are you going to do for an encore! |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-18-2007 at 6:34pm
so are you done f**king crying because we said NKG's suck and don't belong in a ford. It really doesn't mean sh*t that you have done all you maintenance on your cars, got over 100k on my colorado and guess who's done all of that and guess what all that is, two fuel filters, regular oil and filter changes, and one set of plugs and a couple of air filters really show's alot of ability just looking at that doesn't it, Guess Ben'z require more work since they are the finist quality of sh*t rolling down the road today, NOT I REPEAT NOT So shut your ass and move on and don't wear your emotions on your sleeve if your going to post on this site becuase you'll get knocked down everytime by someone. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: gigem75
Date Posted: June-18-2007 at 8:05pm
|
That really cracks me up. both of you are showing your as%, not to mention letting your emotions, four letter words, and smack talk predicate your views rather than give a rational and reasoned argument as to why you think NGK plugs suck. So far all you've done is give a third grade response to statement I made that In My Humble Opinion IMHO get it? go back and read the original post, the gentleman might try running an NGK plug until he rebuilds the engine. I find it truly amazing that all this sh*t has started over a comment about spark plugs. You obviously expect everyone to think like you do and that ain't gonna happen. If you think this is some sort of Lord of the Flies scenario where you are going to dictate what gets said and brow beat those who disagree with you into submission you got another think coming. btw, I can agree with you about the quality of some of the newer MB's but mine is a 123. If your gonna smack my car at least tell everyone the 123's were crap. It's 27 years old and I expect it to last half a million miles.
In summary I'd have to say the emotional and immature posts have been directed at me and not by me. Deal with it. I’ll even give you the last shot at me if you promise to really read what I’ve written. |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-18-2007 at 8:18pm
|
read the BS everytime
IMHO THEY SUCK THAT"S RIGHT IMHO NGK SUCK's DONKEY'S d*ck AND SHOULD BE THROWN IN THE LAKE IMHO guess your the one with the issue reading and interupting the written words before your eyes. MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE USED THE IMHO for you to understand it you child. please give some more stupid stuff about how nice your cars are and how long they lasted by your superior choice in parts and labor you have performed. Your the jack ass that start throughing the I have done this I have done that bullsh*t who f'n cares we stated our thoughts just like you and we didn't even have to go into maintentance records of our own personel cars to do it either. QUIT YOUR CRYING BECAUSE SOME OF US DON'T CARE FOR FOREIGN sh*t IN AMERICAN MUSLE AND KNOW HOW. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: gigem75
Date Posted: June-18-2007 at 9:14pm
|
now that is funny!
79, and dr, cover your eyes, don't read this!!! sjpitts, it sounds like your engine is on it's last legs. I probably wouldn't recommend this if it was a fresh motor but in the intrests of getting a few more hours out of your engine, heck, maybe even till the fall you might try running some NGK Iridium IX UR4IX plugs, maybe even a 3 which is one heat range hotter. I can't guarentee this will help but what have you got to lose? That is my humble opinion. It's worked for me in the past on tired engines and it might work for you. Just trying to help. Here is some good information on how to read a spark plug. Please note that the insulator is what you look at. I'm posting this because the title of your post is "What do my plugs say" and this information might help you out. Q: How do I "read" a spark plug? A: Being able to "read" a spark plug can be a valuable tuning aid. By examining the insulator firing nose color, an experienced engine tuner can determine a great deal about the engine's overall operating condition. Q: What is a "fouled" spark plug? A: A spark plug is considered fouled when the insulator nose at the firing tip becomes coated with a foreign substance such as fuel, oil or carbon. This coating makes it easier for the voltage to follow along the insulator nose, leach back down into the metal shell and ground out rather than bridging the gap and firing normally. |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-18-2007 at 9:34pm
|
gigem75
What great advise, looking at the plug can tell you a bunch, a fouled plug is this great help what insight you offer on reading plugs get that info out of your MB's manual? Might of been a little more helpfull if maybe you mentioned what to look for like the color, it's location on the insulator, the shape of the electrode, is the tang centered over the electroid. What it means when the insulator is white, chocolate/brownish, or black/shooty, Is the whole insulator that color or just one section? just IMHO on how to read plugs and what to look for or what it is telling you. Maybe you should have read what the guys was doing and where the conversation was before you started sh*tting out of your mouth about the NKG plugs and then you might have read where he asked what causes it to look like that and maybe you would have seen the answer. No you didn't see that,,,,... oh sorry join the rest of us and step outside your self centered ME ME ME, I I I world of dip sh*t's and take some of your own advice and read what was said before you start throwing up your worthless all ready stated advice. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: gigem75
Date Posted: June-18-2007 at 10:27pm
| it's a diesel |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-18-2007 at 10:36pm
|
No really, never knew they only made diesel. just a little slow I guess that's why you missed the question "what causes that" and the answer too. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: gigem75
Date Posted: June-18-2007 at 11:09pm
| great help what insight you offer on reading plugs get that info out of your MB's manual? |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: June-18-2007 at 11:25pm
|
gigem,the wrath of Chris, gotta love that guy,I love it when you talk that way.
Gigem, let me tell you a story,probably won't understand, but i will tell the story.You are new to this site ,we don't dislike you for that reason,but we do have issues with you and your IMHO.I don't think you understand what the "H" stands for... The guy that just flamed you , the one that uses all those four letter words,the guy you say does not comprehend.He is the guy that will blow you out of the water on Friday nite over some stupid remark you made on this site. Then on Saturday afternoon drive to your house,bring pizza and beer and help you change out your new GT 40 heads. Are you one of those guys, if not ,shut your trap,and go to that other site . You can impress those kids with all your toys. Over here we are just a bunch of good old boys...........see you.......boat dr KEEP THEM TROOPS IN LINE SGT.CHRIS..SIR ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-18-2007 at 11:53pm
|
Doc he just keeps repeating himself and never catches on that the question was answered long before he ever stuck his foot in his mouth.
The real questions about the plugs are they designed to SAE or DIN standards, DIN. The other question is do they have the same resistance, doesn't matter what the heat range is if the resitance of the plug isn't the same as what the system is designed for then the heat range won't be the same either v=i/r correct?. Also since it's made to a DIN standard are the theads and seat the same for the application or is the angle off a couple of degrees so that the taper doesn't seat right. What about the thread length and tip length are they the same? yea it can be changed a little to improve combustion in curtain cases or it can make it worse too. Just because it seems to work fine in your application doesn't mean it's going to work on everone's. And maybe you should stay on topic and not go off in your little world of lala land of dip sh*t's since the guy already had hot plugs with extended tips to start with. Would have rather seen AC/Delco plugs then some DIN spec POS, but again are they the same resistance that the Autolite 24's are maybe maybe not. So the leason her is don't talk sh*t to the master of all bullsh*t especially when you have no clue who they are and what they have done. Might have forgot a few things about Ignition Systems since I haven't designed any in a couple of years but you don't forget the basics and what plug works good for a DIS system doesn't work the same for a distributor style system or a coil near plug application either and if it works fine for a GM DIS it sure as hell isn't going to work very well on a Ford DIS system, number of turns to the primary and secondary windings aren't the same and the gauge wire and internal resistance isn't either which is key for the system to work properly. And on top of all that he sure as hell is a little slow and doesn't even know when someone is being a smart ass or starcastic(sp) ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-19-2007 at 12:04am
No I got my info from personal experince designing the Ignition system for GM's flagship motor, that being the Northstar Motor used in Cadilac's, the lower displacement Auroa single cam unit and The 2.3l and later 2.4l Quad4 engines is that good enough for you? propelly not since it not a Ben's or some foreign POS Bosch base system with half the Kv output that GM put's out. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: p/allen
Date Posted: June-19-2007 at 12:12am
|
Hey Chris , You still working in Chicago ? Are you going to make it to GL.? ------------- Pat http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w146/72ccfan/100_5977-1.jpg - My 72 Skier Rock River Dixon,ILL. |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-19-2007 at 12:27am
Yes I am still working in the windy city, but I had a unexpected bill to pay last week that has pretty much tapped me out of play money for a couple of months so I don't think I'm going to make it up this year. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: p/allen
Date Posted: June-19-2007 at 12:32am
|
Thats to bad . Was looking forward to seeing you . Was over on Wawasee this past weekend . Sailing didnt work out so well with no wind . ------------- Pat http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w146/72ccfan/100_5977-1.jpg - My 72 Skier Rock River Dixon,ILL. |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-19-2007 at 12:34am
|
so did you even make it out to the sand bar for coldies? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: p/allen
Date Posted: June-19-2007 at 12:40am
|
No didnt even make it that far. We just kind of floated like a lost bobber. ------------- Pat http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w146/72ccfan/100_5977-1.jpg - My 72 Skier Rock River Dixon,ILL. |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-19-2007 at 12:48am
|
good thing you didn't go two weeks ago you would have gotten ran over out there floating. Quite a few go fasts where out there making it a mess. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: June-19-2007 at 8:38am
| Maybe the accelerator pump needs adjusting, how do you do that? |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-19-2007 at 9:44am
No, V=IR. For the record I ran NGK's in my Nissan, but Autolites in my Ford. Chris, hopefully you can change up your schedule- I was looking forward to meeting you at GL. ------------- |
Posted By: gigem75
Date Posted: June-19-2007 at 10:21am
|
the reason I brought up an old porsche is because I was accused of having a toyota and a honda lawnmower and my name isn't BUBBA. It wasn't the high and mighty I'm better than you attitude you thought I meant. If you knew me you'd know that. You might have given me a chance instead of twisting off like you did. When I twisted wrenches for a living we had a saying... toyotas are made out of a new japanese alloy, sh*timum. Perhaps if the first reply from the dr handn't been so vile and me being accused of owning rice burners all this probalby could have been avoided. Hell I kept my Norton long after I was being toasted by the honda 750's. Ok so now you'll probably slam me because I owned british crap with lucas electrics. whatever. The point is we all know that heat ranges and resistance varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, they don't coinside exactly and it is possible that since he has low compression on one side that there is a plug that might and I repeat might work a little better than what the factory calls for in this situation. If I would have said champion I wonder if we'd be having this discussion? Course that would never happen because I dislike champion plugs as much as you hate ngk plugs. I can pretty much say I wouldn't have trashed you if you would have said that just because I don't like champion.
And just for the record your pedigree sounds good to me. I also like my American muscle as much as anyone. So there you have it. You can reply with all the POS's, donkey's, and sucks all you want but if you need help I'll be the first to arrive and the last to leave and bring the beer. |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: June-19-2007 at 12:39pm
|
Chris, you just about got him back in line,,,,
and as far as "vile" goes,please use simple words for the doctor. I prefer contemptable,paltry,despicable or sordid. You also stated that you used to "turn wrenches for a living" what do you do now,sales or just advice....... This is what The Boat Doctor does every day, I do boats and motors, not just talk about what I have done.This is what I DO,every day,Boats and Motors,some days Motors and Boats. This what I do and who I am,VILE, I don't think so,blunt yes...... You can reply with all the POS's, donkey's, and sucks all you want but if you need help I'll be the first to arrive and the last to leave and bring the beer. Talk is cheap and your advice about the same ............boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: gigem75
Date Posted: June-19-2007 at 2:56pm
|
A friend of mine just spent $1,100 at the boat dr. Ran like crap when he got it back which was the same as it was going in. The timing was set at tdc, the bolts holding the float bowls were finger tight. The rear float bowl gasket was replaced but they didn't even scrap all the old one off! Not to mention just about every other bolt on top of the engine. The plugs were the same ones that were in there when he took it in. Choke was adjusted shut even when hot which was why the plugs were fouled. The accelerator pump was installed where the pump arm was backwards so that didn't work.
I fixed all this for him plus put new bearings/races and seal in one side of the trailer. I didn't charge him a dime, he's a buddy. It idles so smooth now with the NGK plugs (just kidding!) you can't even tell it's running. No wonder you guys (as a whole) not you specifically so don't get your panties in a wad, have the reputation you have. Right up there with the MB service departments. |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: June-19-2007 at 3:25pm
|
gigem,first off thats all a lie;
#1 you don't have any friends #2 You have me confused with someone else #3 You don't have a clue about The Boat Doctor, or where my shop is. #4 If he has a C/C in my shop, there would be little or no labor charge #5 Be careful about whom you attack on a professional level #6 This has gone on too long,the site is for sharing our experiences,our contacts,and how we keep this old stuff running. #7 What to do, but mostly what NOT TO DO!!!! I run a clean reputable shop,and take pride in my knowledge of the marine industry as a whole. Do I know it all, hell no ,I am a stupid white boy just trying to get to Heaven. I reassert the statement "be careful about giving advice on this site" some of the newer members will take your typed word as law..................boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-19-2007 at 5:28pm
it's not a timing issue it's a cash flow issue and right now all my cash is flowing away from me. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: June-19-2007 at 5:29pm
|
gotta love this site, i didnt realize a cat fight was going on ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-19-2007 at 5:56pm
|
thought doc was going to come unglued their for a minute. Pretty strong words wasn't sure if it was a local guy or the Doc he was refering to. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: June-19-2007 at 6:50pm
|
Chris,need to send him an invoice for 5 min. of rent time inside my head.Then I started to work my program again......
Hope you can come to G/Lake,we will need someone to keep the troops in line there,and Chris is nominated for the commander in charge.........Will personaly buy you a brewsky, won't drink one ,but damn shore buy you one............... boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-19-2007 at 7:23pm
sure not looking too good right now had to empty my pockets last Friday and it's going to take a while to fill them back up and aford to go to GL ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: June-20-2007 at 8:53am
|
Doc you might get rapped up in a Mal-practice suit after this one ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: sjpitts
Date Posted: June-21-2007 at 2:23am
|
This thread has taken on a life of its own. Let me try and get it back on topic.
To recap some history--in the spring of 06 I took the boat to a shop to have it checked out. This was about six months after I bought it--after it had been sitting in my driveway over the winter. I had them do a compression test. After doing the test, they said they had some bad news-- they said very low compression in one cylinder. BUT, they said that it might be rust on the walls, and they wanted to run the boat again and re-measure the compression. After doing so, they said the compression came back up-- but didn't say how much. This actually makes some sense, as I now know that the riser gaskets were leaking on that side. But the boat shop guys said the engine wasn't really in that bad of shape-- that even though the compression wasn't that good, that the engine could run for a long time. With the exception of a few hickups, the engine seems to run pretty good. As I have said before, I don't travel that fast-- the fastest I go is about 35 MPH at about 3k RPMs. The boat does that just fine, and I don't have the need to go any faster. So with all this, do you guys really think that my engine is about to die a horrible death? I know someone said that I might not make to the fall. Is it really that bad? I know-- you are probably going to say I need to do a new compression test. See what my numbers are now. Right? Attached below are pictures of the manifolds showing the compression numbers they got. The port side, with the low numbers, is the one that had the gasket leak. I edited the spark plug pictures to show which plug came from which cylinder by putting the compression numbers above them. The lowest was 20 when measured the first time, but I don't know what it came up to. So tell me what you think-- and be nice (if not to each other, at least to me:)) Jared 
|
Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: June-21-2007 at 4:04am
|
Jared, even on a dead cold engine 20 psi on any cylinder is way below specs. And you have quite a bit of imbalance between the left and right bank. I'm sorry to say buddy, but you need to start shopping for a long block assembly (or at least a short block). Your engine is tired. And running it in this condition is only going to make it worse. Listen to 79 and the boat dr. When you replace or rebuild that engine you'll be very happy with the way your fresh new motor performs as compared with the old. ------------- 95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: June-21-2007 at 7:36am
|
its probably burning twice the fuel it would normally burn, the fuel in those low cylinders will start to wash the walls and you will start to scuff piston walls if not already at that point, this could possibly do many things such as sieze a piston and thrw a rod through the side of the block...well you get the point ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: June-21-2007 at 2:02pm
| You've got nothing to lose by running it. Run it like hell all summer and worry about it over the winter. Worst that can happen is that it blows up and you need a new engine, which is what your being told anyways. |
Posted By: gigem75
Date Posted: June-21-2007 at 3:16pm
|
Actually the worst thing that could happen is putting hotter ngk plugs in it:)
If it's a reverse rotation engine the last thing you want to do is mess up the crank. When you do get it rebuilt you'll wish you'd done it sooner. |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: June-21-2007 at 4:06pm
| I hear them NGK plugs are good for overcoming a lot of engine problems. I put one in my old Briggs and Stratton, and now it runs like a Honda. Starts first pull every time. |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-21-2007 at 6:29pm
|
well you could run it until winter but if you throw a rod, or trash the crank then you have nothing to rebuild and have to replace. Throwing rod means cracked block, maybe even a hole in it, which means junk, scrap steel, no core exchange for that block.
you really need to know whats bad in the #5 cyl is it a bad valve or is it a bad piston/rings. If it's in the top end then a valve job is all that's needed and your up and running like new. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: sjpitts
Date Posted: June-22-2007 at 12:58am
|
All right, so everyone agrees I have a serious problem.
A few people think I can try and wait it till winter, but most of you think that is asking for a blown block. I would really rather wait, but guys are making me nervous. I think I will try and do a new compression test on Saturday--at least one the weak side-- and try and find out what those numbers really are, and try and find out if its is rings or valves. And how can I find out what is making it run so rich? What would you check first? Jared |
Posted By: gigem75
Date Posted: June-22-2007 at 8:45am
|
someone mentioned this before but when you run your next compression test, squirt a couple of teaspoons in each cylinder right before you test it. If the compression comes up significantly your problem is most likely the rings or cylinder issues. If it stays about the same that indicates valve problems. If that is the case you could do a quick changeout of the heads and be back on the water in a weekend.
Running rich can be as simple as a stuck choke or the float level being set to high. |
Posted By: 64 Skier
Date Posted: June-22-2007 at 12:14pm
|
The boat shop ran compresion twice and gave you bad news (low compression) twice....but did not tell you "WHY" you had low compression. Need a better/smarter mechanic. Tell a better one a little history and specifically ask him if it's the valves or piston rings or possibly something more serious like a crack.
I agree with what 79 said that until you know the "WHY" you don't know what to do. The boat shop should have been able to tell you that on the second test so IMO, you need to change shops. Either way get the work done ASAP. If it's just a valve, then the repair is cheap and easy. If it's the rings/bore etc and your risking the crank or block, then again, you need to repair ASAP. ------------- 64 Skier 66" HO VTX and 67" HO Triumph http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1071&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 71CC |
Posted By: 64 Skier
Date Posted: June-22-2007 at 12:26pm
|
Sorry, my brain stalled...those plugs should have been light brown to chocolate in color so you not only have an internal issue wiht the compression, but a fuel issue as well. I suggest some major work or your gonna find yourself in the middle of the lake needing a tow.
I know it's bad news, but it's not something that can't be fixed. A tank of gas costs almost as much reworking a head and as the old saying goes "if you can't afford the gas you can't afford the boat". Give that engine some TLC and it'll so much fun you'll never look back. ------------- 64 Skier 66" HO VTX and 67" HO Triumph http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1071&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 71CC |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-22-2007 at 12:52pm
Watch out!! There are shops out there that may not be truthfull. They would rather sell you a total rebuild when it only needs a valve job. Worse yet is a re power! Definately get someone else to do a compression test even if you do get a answer for the first shop. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-23-2007 at 3:42pm
|
be there when they do the test or spend 20 bucks and get your own tester at the local autoparts store. And after the compression test is finished do a leak down test on the bad cyclinder and listen at the carb and see if you hear air coming out of it or listen if air is coming out of the oil breather if so them you need the valves done if it is in the block and you hear air coming from the didstick tube then it's the rings. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: sjpitts
Date Posted: July-04-2007 at 4:16am
Just to be clear here--the boat shop said the compression was low, and that it was running rich, but they also said the engine itself should be fine. The mechanic told me it could last a long time. They didn't try and sell me a rebuild, a valve job, or anything else of the sort. I am going to the lake in the morning. I may try and do a new, complete compression test afterwards Jared /hoping the boat shop was right. |
Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: July-05-2007 at 6:57am
Are we talking about the same boat here? In one of your earlier posts you said that one of the cylinders was down to 20 PSI on the compression. That's a serious mechanical issue with the engine. Are you saying that the same mechanic that knows this also told you that the "engine itself should be fine". If this is true, this person CANNOT be trusted. Take it to another mechanic for another compression test if you don't know how to do one. Didn't you say that you live in the Phoenix area? I'm in Tempe and the offer still stands if you would like help with this thing. Brian ------------- 95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
Posted By: sjpitts
Date Posted: July-06-2007 at 2:48am
This is the same boat. To clarify, they did two compression tests. The first gave a reading of 20lbs in one cylinder, but they said it could be rust on a cylinder wall, so they said they would first run it for a while and then do another compression test. They did, and said the compression "came up" so it probably was rust. They never told me what the final compression was, or how much it came up. They just said that there was a decent chance the motor would last a while. And it has lasted 15 months with 50 hours of use since then. Rust on the cylinder wall actually makes some sense, as the guys on this forum pointed out that the manifold/riser gasket on that side was stained from leaking, and then I saw actual water coming out of that same gasket. I am Mesa, brown road/gilbert road area. I would love some help sometime. As I said, my next task to learn how to do my own compression test, checking to see what my compression is now, and if it is a valve or ring problem. I could also use some help figuring out why it is running rich. How do you feel about early morning lake trips? We usually leave for Sag at 4:30 AM, and are home by 8:30 AM. We go on some saturdays, but prefer weekdays. Jared |
Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: July-06-2007 at 6:46am
|
Jared, I'd be glad to go with you to Saquaro in the early morn. I go sometimes on Mondays and Tuesdays. I got your email with your phone number. This weekend I'm going to Rocky Point with my girlfriend and her family. We will be there thru next Tuesday. So we will have to make it the weekend after. When was the last time you had your boat out and how did it run? Anyway, I'll give you a call next week (probably Tues) and we'll go from there. Take care! Brian. ------------- 95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |