electrical/starting issues
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7767
Printed Date: November-15-2024 at 7:08pm
Topic: electrical/starting issues
Posted By: mutch24
Subject: electrical/starting issues
Date Posted: July-31-2007 at 10:35am
|
I have a 1977 Ski Nautique with a 260 OMC engine and I am new to CC. It has always started and ran good for me, but last weekend I could not get the boat started. I was not sure of the problem, but I continued to try to start it, tweaking something different each time without success. Eventually, the battery ran out, so I tried to jump the boat with a car by connecting the cables to both posts on the car battery, and to the positive post and the block of the boat. The engine turned about a half turn, then went completely dead. None of the gauges show anything when the key is in the "on" position. I do not get any noise, click, or sputter even when trying the key.
I could not find any main fuse that was tripped anywhere on the boat. Everything looks normal, like there are no burnt up wires, no smells, and all fuses I could find checked out ok. I recharged the batteries and the blower and horn work, but still nothing on the engine or dash. The battery reads 12.9V on an electrical tester and the connection to the to the starter and relay or sender (I'm not sure what it is) both read at about 12.8 with the key on or off. I have checked the terminals and main cables, but I don't think the connection is the problem because the problem happened so abruptly. Next, I checked the ignition switch and none of the three wires on the back were hot with the key on or off. I suspect the problem is power is not getting to the dash, but I do not know where the problem is. Is there a common place to look in the wiring harness that goes bad during surges? What wires go the the dash and where do they start? I should put new cables on it, but where do you start? Do I disconnect from the battery and just pull back to the bilge so I can find where the cables meet the wiring harness? I need help getting power back to so I can work out my other starting problem (carb/spark/starter/fuel delivery). Let me know if this makes sense or if you need anymore information. Thank you for the help. |
Replies:
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-31-2007 at 10:46am
|
24, Somewhere you are loosing the 12 to the B term on the ignition switch. It sounds like you know how to use a volt ohm meter so you need to go at it and find the problem. I think the 77 was close to the end of the amp meter before the volt meters were used in the dash. Your feed to the ignition switch may be through the amp meter. Check it. Maybe it opened. I'm sorry that I'm not more positive. I have the wiring diagram for a PCM Ford but not the OMC GM. You by the way have the premium engine and it was a $200 option. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: mutch24
Date Posted: August-01-2007 at 10:40am
|
I'm glad to hear that I have the engine upgrade and that it was stock...I haven't seen many on the forum that have it.
My boat had a new volt meter just installed when I bought it. I need to trace wires, but the wires in the bilge have been wrapped in a protective sleeve, so it will make changing the cables more difficult. The question I have after poking around is, does the + battery cable first go through the starter, then to the plug/wiring harness? Then the wiring harness splits and goes to other relays, coils, and back to the dash, right? After checking more last night, I think the starter is possible blown, thus preventing it from sending anything past it once the key is turned. Does this sound possible? I pulled the starter and an having it checked out today. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-01-2007 at 11:03am
24, Before you start pulling things off the engine, I would get the volt meter out and do some checking. This is a PCM Ford diagram but it should be close. The + to the dash will come off the starter or the solenoid.
 ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: August-01-2007 at 11:23am
|
you need to make sure that the nuetral safety switch isn't bad so by pass it on the tranny. Two white wires on the drivers side of the tranny but both on one post. Next you need to check voltage at the ballast resistor, by pass it as well for testing purposes only, then replace the resistor and wire correctly.
But most likely you have a bad connection at the rear of the motor where the wiringharness connector is located back portion of the block drivers side. The battery cables are ran seperately and not part of any harness. all of the wires from the dash go to the connector at the back of the block that the engine requirs all others go to what ever they operate, lights, bilge, blower... but mess with the connector at the rear of the motor and see if you get 12v at the ballast resistor and 9v or more at the coil. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: mutch24
Date Posted: August-01-2007 at 11:09pm
|
I couldn't fully test the system because the starter was being checked out today, but I did connect the positive wires to check what 79 said. I checked the neutral safety switch and ballast resistor and both completed a circuit when I used a tester. Does this mean they are ok or could there still be a problem? However, I could not get any volts reading on either wire of the neutral switch or the resistor. The + wire goes to the starter, then to a part on the other side of the engine that looks like a relay starter. After that, the wires converge to the harness, which all check out to be ok. I wiggled the connector and harness and inspected it, and everything looks clean and in working order. I got 12V on the input line to the relay, but nothing on the other side. I think I should replace the relay. Are all marine relays similar or do I need the relay for this specific engine? I ask this because I want to know if I will have to order it, or if a local marina might have it.
Thanks again, |
Posted By: mutch24
Date Posted: August-03-2007 at 12:20am
|
I am making progress on my problem. I had my starter looked at, and it did need rebuilt. So I had that done, got it back on, and still had nothing the gauges or starting. So I bypassed the relay on the other side of the engine with cables and got a spark and noise. I thought that was the problem and was going to replace it, but figured I should check all angles first so I got under the dash and checked the ignition wires. None of them were hot, so I checked the breaker above it, and even though it did not show that it was blown, one side was hot while the other was not. I bypassed it and tried the key, and I got the gauges and and starter to turn over. So I need a new in-dash breaker. Can I get these at an auto parts store or do I need a marine one? Also, what size should the breaker be? This one is old and I cannot read it. I did not have water around to start the boat, but I will try tomm. and hopefully after I put new plugs and get these electrical problems figured out it will fire right up. If not, I know where to turn.
Thanks again, |
Posted By: nuttyskier2002
Date Posted: August-03-2007 at 4:45am
|
Mutch, is it a breaker or a fuse? Most inboards now days have the main breaker located near the back of the engine. Does your boat have an ammeter or a voltage gauge? (which one)? ------------- 95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-03-2007 at 7:15am
|
It's a 77 so it should have fuses unless someone added a breaker under the dash. A previous post says it has been converted to a volt meter. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: mutch24
Date Posted: August-03-2007 at 10:18am
|
This is an image of what it looks like. I thought it was a breaker and would pop if tripped and I could push and reset it. I guess I don't really know what this is, except that it is bad. I have one of these for all switches on the dash (blower, pump, lights...) if that helps. Does anyone know what the size of this piece should be? thanks, 
|
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-03-2007 at 10:50am
|
24, That is a fuse holder. The cap will 1/4 turn (unscrew) and you will find a fuse inside. If this is the main feed fuse to the dash then it will be a 20 amp. One thing to keep in mind is that fuses don't blow by themselves. Something blew it! Do you have a friend that may be a little more familiar with electrics? You will want to check it out. The holder itself and it's connections look burnt too. Someone has been under your dash without the proper tools and probably the proper knowledge. The .250 Sta-Kon quick connect on the fuse holder isn't even crimped. You need some help before you have a melt-down!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: August-03-2007 at 11:48am
|
Pete, often wondered ,250 Sta-Kon quick connect ,what the proper name of these were.
Got by for years not knowing ,it really is bliss.Female push on/big one,solderless term.Well there is a nuther in redneck land ...........boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: mutch24
Date Posted: August-03-2007 at 11:50am
| Thanks for the help, I got the fuse out and it was blown. As for what tripped it, when I was jumping the battery it blew because I connect the - cable from the car battery to the block and there was a bad ground connection on the boat. I have found that connection and cleaned it. My starter was also shorted out, allowing too many amps to flow throught the curcuit. The fuse holder is not balck or burnt up at all, it is just a really bad picture in poor lighting. The quick connect was uncrimped by me to get the wires off because they weren't long ennough to get out from under the dash. Also, I wanted to take it to the store to get new ones anyway. I really don't want to hurt myself or the boat, but I am trying to be safe. Thanks for the concern. Is there anything else I really need to be careful for? I am going to replace the fuse and if it blows again, I will take it to the mechanic. Thanks for all the help. |
Posted By: David F
Date Posted: August-03-2007 at 12:13pm
|
I hate crimped connectors for a multitude of reasons. I now solder all my connectors to the wires. I remove the plastic cover, crimp, solder, heat shrink tubing. I think this is not technically correct by soldering connectors designed to crimped, but it is still much better than a crimp alone.
Sounds like you found the immediate no crank culprit, but re-read Chris' post (and follow the suggestions) as the engine will mostly likely still not run even after you solved the cranking issue. Also, you knew the shop rebuilding your starter was going to find that it was bad...it is in their best interest. But, a freshly rebuilt starter is never a bad thing. I just hope they did not put a new kid on the job as thus recognized it as reverse rotation (assumption) marine. You will know if it backfires through the carb if they did it wrong or not. Good luck and keep us posted. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-03-2007 at 12:22pm
|
24, You don't "uncrimp" a quick disconnect to remove the device. Trust me that it was never crimped properly with a crimping tool. It looks like someone took a pair of pliers to it an squeezed. This is not how they work.
The starter current doesn't go through this fuse so that didn't blow it. Something else is wrong. Check for other solderless terminals that have just been squeezed with pliers. Bad crimps with higher amp loads will heat up the connections. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: mutch24
Date Posted: August-03-2007 at 1:25pm
|
Thanks for all the info. There are new wires run under the dash for the ignition, not by me though. I will now inspect and replace connectors that look new or like they have been tampered with. I will also solder them and heat shrink it. The bad ground to the engine could have blown this fuse, right? I have cleaned that and will try it again today. Hopefully it won't blow again.
I know I will have other starting problems after I get cranking power, but hopefully I can work those out. The starter was rebuilt by a freind of my parents who has been excellant with everything I have ever brought him. He has always been honest with me and knows his parts inside and out. Would a starter have been able to turn over if it was bad? I am just trying to think of possible reasons I had problems initially. I will run through all the items listed above and see what comes out. |
Posted By: mutch24
Date Posted: August-03-2007 at 6:32pm
|
I installed a new fuse with solder and heat shrink and I fixed 2 other connections at the new volt meter with solder and shrink too. Then I put new spark plugs in to make sure I was getting a good spark (they were carbon coated too) and the first tap of the key started the boat right up. This was the easiest start I have ever had.
Thanks to everyone who helped me, you all really know your stuff. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-04-2007 at 6:10pm
|
24, It's always a good felling to have a successful fix!! Congrats and happy boating. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |