Rotella/Delo diesel oils
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7883
Printed Date: January-18-2025 at 4:05am
Topic: Rotella/Delo diesel oils
Posted By: boat dr
Subject: Rotella/Delo diesel oils
Date Posted: August-07-2007 at 9:44pm
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All the multi-grade now have a desination of CJ-4; the zinc and other heavy metals have been removed. This was the reason we were using these oils,the additives help with the wear on our flat tappet cams and lifters.Even after break-in they are still required for the longivity of the valve train.
The straight grades,30T & 40T will continue with the old formulation, as these oils are not used nor recomended for the newer diesels.The problem seems to be ; The particulate filter is plugging and causing a multitude of issues.Rather than fix the problem change the oil.......... Any one wanting more answers to questions call Shells Info #1-800-231-6950..boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Replies:
Posted By: edfer
Date Posted: August-07-2007 at 10:50pm
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I use Amsoil 15W40 Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel?Marine oil. Been using it for 8 years in diesel truck, Mercedes, and V6 and V8 marine engines. I called Amsoil when I saw the discussion of flat tappets come up. The oil Iam using has ample zinc additive. They also sent me one of their tech papers on the subject:
TSB: MO-2006-10-26 Date: 10/26/2006 Page 1 of 2 Subject: Flat Tappet and Camshaft Lubrication Technical Service Bulletin Product Description: AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils Submitted By: TSSTPM Reviewed By: KM Approval By: COO Date: Distribution: ___Internal _X_All OBJECTIVE: To provide information about the use of motor oils formulated with lower levels of zinc and phosphorus additives in flat tappet and camshaft style engines. ISSUES: Engine oils contain anti-wear additives. The most common anti-wear chemistry is zinc dithiophosphate (ZDP), which is a combination of zinc and phosphorus. In 2005 the American Petroleum Institute (API) and International Lubricants Standards Approval Committee (ILSAC) instituted API SM and ILSAC GF-4 quality standards. These two standards are closely related, with GF-4 being viscosity dependent and API SM applying to all SAE automotive viscosities. API SM/ILSAC GF-4 licensed oils with viscosity grades 0W-20 & 30, 5W-20 & 30, and 10W-30 are restricted to .06 - .08% phosphorus, while previous API SL/ILSAC GF-3 oils were restricted to .1% phosphorus. There is concern that oils containing lower levels of phosphorus are insufficient in protecting the high-contact regions of the flat tappets and camshaft lobes found in many older cars and high-performance engines. TECHNICAL DISCUSSION: During the development of API SM/ILSAC GF-4 the antiwear requirements of flat tappets were given particular consideration by the engine manufacturers and by the oil industry. Engines with flat tappets were used to qualify API SM/ ILSAC GF-4 oils. The anti-wear requirements of these tests are severe. In one case where the same Sequence IVA engine test was used for previous higher zinc and phosphorus oils, the average camshaft wear limits were reduced, allowing only 90(μm) max wear for API SM/ILSAC GF-4 oils compared to the former 120(μm) max wear limits. The results showed that API SM/ILSAC GF-4 oils protect factory designed flat tappet/camshaft engines just as well as previous higher phosphorus API SL/ILSAC GF-3 oils. If the engine is new, rebuilt or is modified from stock with highpressure valve springs, proper precautions should be taken to insure long camshaft life. These recommendations apply regardless of the lower zinc and phosphorus associated with API SM/ILSAC GF-4 specifications. Lower quality lifters are increasing in popularity. These lifters may not have the proper metallurgy to withstand long-term service or, in particular, the extra force applied by high-pressure valve springs. Lifter quality should be considered as a contributing factor where excessive wear or premature failure is experienced. RECOMMENDATION: For all new or rebuilt engines with flat tappets, proper assembly lubes and oil additives should be used during the break-in phase. These additives provide extra protection at the point of contact, helping the flat tappet face to properly mate with the cam lobe. Once the break-in phase is over, these additives should not be used. This includes the GM product E.O.S., which is an assembly lubricant only and is not to be used, as the label clearly states, as an engine oil additive. High-performance modified engines benefit from oils with superior film strength and anti-wear properties. The flat tappet/camshaft lobe interface is the one area in an engine that has extreme contact load. That load increases significantly where non-stock, high-pressure valve springs are used. The use of properly formulated engine oils for this application will help reduce wear and extend the flat tappet/ camshaft life. There are many more ways to achieve good anti-wear performance than just using zinc and phosphorus compounds alone. Zinc and phosphorus are widely used because they are the most cost effective solutions to achieve anti-wear properties. AMSOIL INC., AMSOIL Bldg., Superior, WI 54880 (715) 392-7101 © Copyright 2006 Submitted By: AA AA Date: 10/26/06 TSB: MO-2006-10-26 Date: 10/26/2006 Page 2 of 2 Subject: Flat Tappet and Camshaft Lubrication Technical Service Bulletin Product Description: AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils Submitted By: AA Reviewed By: KM Approval By: AA Date: 10/26/06 Distribution: ___Internal _X_All In addition to zinc and phosphorus compounds, AMSOIL combines "ashless" anti-wear and friction modifier additives with high quality synthetic oils to achieve truly superior anti-wear performance, including in flat tappet applications. AMSOIL 0W-30 (TSO), 5W-30 (ASL) and 10W-30 (ATM) are premium synthetic, API SM (gasoline)/CF (off-road diesel)/ ILSAC GF-4 formulations containing a proprietary combination of zinc and phosphorus, detergent and friction modifier additives to generate exceptional anti-wear properties as demonstrated in the four-ball wear test. These oils are recommended for use in newer and older engines with flat tappets in both stock and highperformance configurations. AMSOIL 20W-50 (TRO) is a premium synthetic racing oil for gasoline engines with superior film strength and anti-wear protection. It is excellent for street or race use in cars, hot rods, and trucks or boats. It is the preferred choice for highly modified, high horsepower engines. AMSOIL 10W-40 (AMO), 15W-40 (AME) and 20W-50 (ARO) are premium synthetic, API SL (gasoline)/CI-4 Plus (heavy-duty, on-road diesel) quality formulations. They are an excellent choice for those who desire diesel style engine oils recommended for use in both gasoline and diesel engines. AMSOIL INC., AMSOIL Bldg., Superior, WI 54880 (715) 392-7101 © Copyright 2006 |
Posted By: behindpropeller
Date Posted: August-08-2007 at 12:00am
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Boat Dr.-
You might want to try aeroshell 15w-50. Most every airplane engine runs with a flat tappet motor. Phillips XC is another good alternative. Tim |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: August-08-2007 at 12:15am
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Bizzaro world indeed, since even the obsolete Detroit 2 strokes, that spec the straight weight, have roller cams. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August-08-2007 at 12:34am
wow.this is getting intense, i think ill stick with my pennzoil
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Posted By: racintj
Date Posted: August-08-2007 at 1:27am
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Boat dr., I think the tree-huggin environmentalist wackos are going to ruin everything. I've been running the Rotella T HD 40 for the first few oil changes after my rebuild. I think I will go back to my Valvoline 10/40 and add the GM EOS additive. You can buy 16 oz bottles from the dealership and only put 4 oz. with each oil change. I don't want to be reading oil labels each time I go to buy oil.
edfer, one of the problems is you/we probably have no idea who made the lifters that are in our motors. I believe there are only two flat tappet makers in the US, the remaining coming from over the pond. Cam manufacturers were even getting some from here, some from there. Thus, I can only take precaution and ensure that my lifters/lobe receive their daily dosage of zinc and phosphorus. ryanandrews, I would save that Pennzoil for the Briggs and Stratton lawn mower motor. You need to pay attention about the zinc levels in these oils if you are running a flat tappet cam. ------------- Every day above ground is a Good day. Lakeland, FL |
Posted By: bchesley
Date Posted: August-08-2007 at 1:56am
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You can get the STP oil additive it has zinc too.
Brad ------------- 2001 SAN "Python Powered" |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: August-08-2007 at 1:56am
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racintj,The chemist at Shell I spoke with today was very knowledgeable as to adsditives and their uses in F/tappet engines. When asked about the EOS, she new axactly what I was talking about and where the question was headed.
Run a straight 40 and add the EOS.Her answer was the stuff was to be used as a break -in lube only and was not a substitute for a premium additive packege that the Rotella T has. Her comment on the future availability of this formula is and will be around for a long time. It is a proven product that has a strong market, so don't go buy a 55 gal. drum to rat hole for future use. Also asked the name brand of oil filter they use for testing.......WIX........ So there is the scoop as it was told to me... 40 weight Rotella T With a Wix in my stroker. ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: racintj
Date Posted: August-08-2007 at 1:17pm
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I guess that will be fine. I just hate using straight 40 all the time, but I guess that is cheap insurance. Where do you buy the Wix filters from? Here in FL, I just see Fram, MotorCraft, Puro, etc. And why WIX? I have seen several people swear by them here, but I don't know why. What is wrong with FL-1A Motorcraft?
As for the EOS additive, GM said it was perfectly fit for an additive used in a lower dosage (4 oz. per oil change). The techs at Crane agree as well, and since they make the majority of the blanks for the whole cam industry, I would think they would know best. ------------- Every day above ground is a Good day. Lakeland, FL |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-08-2007 at 1:20pm
The Motorcraft FL1A filter is also very good. If you have NAPA around you, their filters are just rebranded Wix. I buy my Wix filters in bulk from http://filter1.com/ - Filter1. ------------- |
racintj wrote:Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: August-08-2007 at 1:58pm
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LEE Autoparts carries the "Wix" line. ------------- |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: August-08-2007 at 1:58pm
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OK boys, dumb it down a little bit.
What oil in an 85BFN 454 non HO. Thanks, Tull ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: August-08-2007 at 2:04pm
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OK boys, dumb it down a little bit.
What oil in an 85BFN 454 PCM 330hp. Thanks, Tull ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: August-08-2007 at 3:22pm
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even further...is the PCM 454 330 a flat tappet motor?
Thanks ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: August-08-2007 at 4:13pm
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certainly is. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: Munday
Date Posted: August-08-2007 at 5:55pm
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If you go NAPA get the gold line,thats the good Wix filter.Billy thanks for the update I sure don't want to do another cam.I've been running the 10w40 rotella with lucas additive.
I also recommend adding a good strong magnet next to the drain line,remove while draining oil and replace when refilling every little bit helps. Munday |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: August-08-2007 at 6:00pm
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Munday, thanx for the magnet tip, all the M/Cruisers use this set up,my DUMB ASS don't think that far ahead.You never get too old to learn a new trick...........boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: Munday
Date Posted: August-08-2007 at 8:29pm
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My pleasure Billy,as I've taken many of your ideas without that simple "Thank you" I did it because I knew there were still little cam grindings in my motor although I cleaned it as best I could.
Munday |
Posted By: 69 Mustang
Date Posted: August-08-2007 at 10:28pm
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Hi Munday,
Like tullfooter said, dumb it down a little, lol. As I read your advice: At some point in the oil life cycle, I 1.) place a magnet near the drain line (presumably the lowest spot) on the outside of the pan. This will draw and hold any metal particles circulating through the lube system against the pan on the inside 2.) Warm engine 3.) Shut down 4.) Remove magnet 5.) Drain oil and with it some/most/all metal particles 6.) Reapply magnet and fill Good tip, just want to do it right. Thanks, Mike ------------- For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. "Where the **** are we?" Amelia Earhart. July 2, 1937 |
Posted By: racintj
Date Posted: August-09-2007 at 12:48am
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Tullfooter, as you can see, the choices can be many. I would stick with the Shell Rotella T 40 and your choice of filter...Wix, AC Delco, just not Fram. ------------- Every day above ground is a Good day. Lakeland, FL |
Posted By: Munday
Date Posted: August-09-2007 at 12:54am
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Thats the way I do it 69 Mustang
Munday ------------- If the only tool you have is a hammer,everything starts to look like a nail. |