back filling with anitfreeze
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9057
Printed Date: November-15-2024 at 9:27pm
Topic: back filling with anitfreeze
Posted By: schiffsnautique
Subject: back filling with anitfreeze
Date Posted: November-25-2007 at 7:00am
| i am in the process of backfillin, however, the antifreeze doesn't seem to be goig to the engine block. i am following the manual but it seems the freeze stops at the raw water pump. pulled the plug at the raw water pump and the freeze came out. my old boat i backfilled by taking off both tubes from the thermostat until it came back through. can i do it the same on a 93 nautique? i started to do it this way but it sounded like it all went into the exhaust. didn't want to spend all my money down the exhaust if it doesn't fill the block |
Replies:
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-25-2007 at 11:39am
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schiff, It sounds like you are pouring the anti freeze down the hose towards the raw water pump. Use the same hose but use it to pour the anti freeze towards the thermostat housing. If the engine is cold, you will need to remove the T stat or warm it up so the T stat opens. If you for some reason can't start the engine to warm it up and don't want to open up the T stat housing here's a trick I have used: Warm up the T stat housing area with a hot air heat gun. While it is warming, heat the anti freeze to about 180 degrees. (or higher if you have the 180 thermostat installed) Don't worry about trying to fill the block. Getting a gal. in will get all the low spots. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-25-2007 at 1:24pm
Not true. The block will fill regardless of the 'stat being open or closed. I backfill with antifreeze as the last step of winterizing, so the motor is usually cold again- and I can always get 3+ gallons in before it gets past the risers. Good call on the hose. Just to make sure we're understanding Schiff correctly, heres a pic. The hose in question should be disconnected from the RWP and raised above motor level, so the A/F enters through the 'stat housing.  ------------- |
8122pbrainard wrote:Posted By: 2_Nautiques
Date Posted: November-25-2007 at 2:25pm
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Tim, great illustration. I have never had a problem getting anti-freeze in the block doing this procedure with the engine cold. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1160" rel="nofollow - 1988 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: TRDon
Date Posted: November-25-2007 at 3:37pm
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I have always removed the stat because I thought it would just bypass the block to the exhaust manifolds because the stat was closed.. It will get in the motor though? I never heard of doing that before. ------------- 85 2001 351 240hp FS 93 sport |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-25-2007 at 3:47pm
It does depend on who's engine and the cooling layout. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-25-2007 at 4:57pm
That statement is true for the PCM Fords that we're talking about (Schiff's '93, Alan's '81, my '90, '78, etc). ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: November-25-2007 at 7:24pm
| wow. so many different ways to winterize..after opening the pitcocks manifold drains i dump 4 gallons of prestone antifreeze in two 5 gal buckets mix with water..take the inlet hose and put a funnel in it..fire her up let it suck it up, when i see it coming out the exhaust shut it down while fogging the carb for a few seconds..i dont remove the thermostat or the impeller..i know this works as well as several neighbors use this method..why remove a thermoste when you can hook up a water supple and let it get to operating temps..if you got the green stuff coming out the back your fine.. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-25-2007 at 11:03pm
Like I said, no need to remove the stat. The block will fill whether its open or closed. All bets are off if you dont drain the block, though. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: November-25-2007 at 11:26pm
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Posted By: behindpropeller
Date Posted: November-26-2007 at 7:16pm
Explain to me how the block fills when the thermostat is closed? Just because you have antifreeze coming out the exhaust does not mean it is in the block. ------------- |
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: November-26-2007 at 7:28pm
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The block fills first, doesn't not matter if the t-stat is open or not. The block has to get full before the liquid can be heated to make the t-stat open. Once the block is full if the t-stat has not opened yet it will bypass all fluids to the exhaust. That is why you have to drain the block and manifolds before doing it. ------------- |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-26-2007 at 7:42pm
Exactly. If you read the PCM engine manual, you'll notice it says nothing about removing the thermostat or the temperature of the block when backfilling with antifreeze (hot or cold doesnt matter). If you can get 3+ gallons into the thermostat housing without filling the block or dumping it all out the exhaust, Id like to see that trick ------------- |
Posted By: schiffsnautique
Date Posted: December-06-2007 at 11:23pm
| thanks alot TRBenj 87BFN owner. very simple to do and understand once i had an illustration. agreed. pcm never speaks about operating temps or thermostat needed to be open to backfill. i had a local marine tech show me how to backfill my wellcraft although now i realized he wasn't as methodic as i like to be. he showed me basically the same way however never told me to drain the exhaust mainfolds. i feel better, excited, and comfortable to repeat this process anytime thanks to you guys. one last question......... why does PCM tell you to backfill with 50 bio/rv anti-freeze and 50 water???????? |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-07-2007 at 12:04am
They dont. They say to mix conventional antifreeze (coolant) 50/50. ------------- |
Posted By: schiffsnautique
Date Posted: December-13-2007 at 1:44pm
| sorry the manual says non-toxic food-grade anti-freeze. why do they say to mix 50/50? why even mix other than the cost of anti-freeze doubles? in the past i've used the green stuff with my other boat but this year i went with the biodegradable stuff due to i get the boat prepped in the driveway everyspring and didn't feel like trying to catch all of the green stuff. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-13-2007 at 2:05pm
The picture above was taken directly out of the 1989 PCM manual (which is the same as my '90). Notice that is says, "fill the engine with 50% solution of permanant antifreeze, such as Zerex or Prestone." Theyre talking about the toxic, conventional (green) antifreeze, not the RV/marine (biodegradable) antifreeze, which is red/pink. If filling with green A/F, mix it 50/50 with water, as it lowers the freezing point. If filling with biodegradable stuff, follow the directions on the label and DO NOT dilute it. This will reduce your freeze protection. ------------- |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: December-13-2007 at 2:56pm
Keep in mind that this is generally, but not always the rule. The AF in my truck is pink and the biodegradable Propelyne Glycol AF in my boat is green! The key is PG verses EG. I always remember this by thinking along the lines of PG Rating (in movies) = safer for the kids! ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: December-13-2007 at 3:05pm
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and then you have the orange/brown dexcool ------------- |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-13-2007 at 3:07pm
Youre right- both GM and Toyota have special coolants that are red/pink (which I presume to be toxic). Joel, you used the Sierra antifreeze, right? Not sure how it compares to the regular RV stuff, but they never say its non-toxic or biodegradable- they just say its "less toxic than the EG based antifreeze." ------------- |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: December-13-2007 at 3:17pm
On the '88 I got about 2 3/4 gallons in before it stopped in the hose. Take off the funnel, cup your hand around the hose and blow. Your lungs are strong enough to get it through the risers. By the time I had all 3 gallons in, a little bit dripped out of both exhaust flappers. ------------- |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-13-2007 at 4:15pm
It figures you would prefer this method. If you work the hose up and down (another one of your specialties) the A/F will work its way in. ------------- |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: December-13-2007 at 4:26pm
True. I guess I used the biodegradable term as a generic term for "not horribly toxic and death-inducing". ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: December-13-2007 at 4:34pm
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the bio/non-toxic stuff is in several different colors depends on the level of protection you want, but most of it is not mixed with water. All of the toxic stuff is. Me personally I didn't like the pink stuff after I read the label that's why I opted for the other colored stuff west marine sold. And If you live further North than Indiana I wouldn't be using the pink stuff if you store your boat outside during the winter.
Hollywood blowing, well I guess he just sticks to what he does best. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: December-13-2007 at 4:38pm
As in "blew" you away in darts at the Goose Blind?  ------------- |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: December-13-2007 at 7:30pm
I think your question was only indirectly answered. Traditional anti-freeze actually provides less freeze protection when undiluted. By design, it provides greater freeze protection when diluted 50/50 with water. I am not sure what the chemical composition/reaction is, but I know it to be true. The RV antifreeze, whatever color it might be, is not chemically set up to be diluted, and provides best protection when undiluted. As it is biodegradable, I'm guessing it is water soluble, but, again, I don't know the chemical composition or reactions. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: bk_broiler
Date Posted: December-14-2007 at 7:43pm
| HOld on, Hollywood, are you implying this can be done without the engine started? Otherwise, I can't see why it wouldn't be coming out the exhaust on it's own... |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-14-2007 at 7:56pm
Are you asking if the the engine can be filled with antifreeze without being started? Of course! Read the PCM manual, or http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8368&PN=1 - this thread on how to drain the engine , and my post above on how to backfill. ------------- |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: December-14-2007 at 8:05pm
I had to be drunk that's the only way I would lose to you in darts to you unless it was a non-skill game like 301, I don't recall taking any of My darts to the Goose blind and don't recall playing any darts at all that week-end, so If I did I obviously was drunk and don't recall so it doesn't matter ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-14-2007 at 8:14pm
Yes you did; yes you did; yes you were. ------------- |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: December-15-2007 at 2:00am
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see house darts suck and 301 takes two rounds 501 four rounds. finish cricket in 8-10 then we'll play, as long as I don't have to use house darts.
come on down to Scampy's and we'll play some darts but bring your A game and be ready for Cricket, now if you want to play double in and double out 301/501 game one. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: December-15-2007 at 10:07am
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Did anyone see the Winmau Blade 3 hanging in my shop? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: December-15-2007 at 11:55am
what the F are you talking about? never heard of Winmau ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: December-15-2007 at 12:14pm
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I thought you'd recognize the name. It's a dart board. http://www.edarts.net/bristleboard/blade.shtml - Winmau Blade 3 ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: December-15-2007 at 1:34pm
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soft tip electronic boards is what we play on all of the time at Scampy's ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: schiffsnautique
Date Posted: January-13-2008 at 6:11am
| sorry about the confusion. the "93" pcm manual says to have the bio grade freeze, which is why i used the pink stuff. my boat is stored in my garage near pittsburgh so too cold isn't a problem. my previous boats i backed with zerex but with the new boat i wanted to follow the man. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-13-2008 at 11:29am
It doesn't make a difference which type you use. It's a environmental issue. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |