Electric Ski Boat
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9233
Printed Date: September-25-2024 at 12:35pm
Topic: Electric Ski Boat
Posted By: M3Fan
Subject: Electric Ski Boat
Date Posted: December-18-2007 at 2:40pm
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First, a couple of facts:
1) My 50.00 18v Ryobi hand drill will handily drive a 4" lag bolt through a 4X4, or hang drywall all day, or put a hole saw through a solid oak door to install a deadbolt with no problems. The motor is about the size of a half roll of quarters and I'm assuming it works via extreme gear reduction. The batteries (NiCad) last for weeks with regular use or days with heavy use. 2) My ski sets only last 1-2 hours, if that and my boat is always stored near an electrical outlet for charging if needed 3) Removing my SBF V8 and gas tank will free up nearly 1000lbs of weight in the boat- that's a lot of room and weight for batteries. 4) Battery and electric motor technology are getting better and better these days. Electric motors can generate gobs of torque instantaneously and batteries are getting smaller and more powerful every year. Now, the question: Why can't someone create a battery powered ski boat? Most ski sessions don't last too long and the majority of your time on the water is just iding around to pick up skiers. It seems like a rechargable all-electric boat would fit the need of skiers and boarders perfectly. Zero emissions and silent power. No ZDDP oil changes or engine work! Would this not be awesome? ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Replies:
Posted By: behindpropeller
Date Posted: December-18-2007 at 2:57pm
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I think you would need at least a small generator on board for "boost" power. I'm all for it because it would throw a wrench in all of the DNR rules around here. Lots of lakes around that are electric motor or 9.9hp.
------------- |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: December-18-2007 at 4:24pm
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m3, you got the thinkin cap on today ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: December-18-2007 at 4:25pm
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Then what would all the gearheads do for fun with their boats??? I give you this, it is a noble idea but I am not to sure it will happen in the near future.
I think about things like that myself though. It's off the subject but, while snowmobiling this week end I wondered when they are going to make electric snowmobiles. NO need for heat exchangers to cool the motor. The snow would last a lot longer??? I guess only time will tell. ------------- |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: December-18-2007 at 4:38pm
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I've mildly considered selling my GT40 and investing the proceeds towards the new powerplant but unfortunately I'm no electronic engineer. I know that with the right gearing,prop, and electric motor you would have one beast of an electric ski boat. ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: behindpropeller
Date Posted: December-18-2007 at 4:43pm
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Most tugboats are electric FYI ------------- |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: December-18-2007 at 4:44pm
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Joel,
You need to pick yourself up one of those hybrid cars and swap the motors out, or better yet an old decommissioned Nuke Sub, throw a tower on it, run her below the surface for no wake, may have to rethink the course setup though cause those anchors may get in the way. Seriously though, a buddy has an electric boat and it is really cool, think it's a http://spincraftboats.com/pub/silentspecs.htm - Spincraft , it runs almost silent, not very fast though. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: anthonylizardi
Date Posted: December-18-2007 at 6:07pm
I don't see why not. Have you guys seen the killacycle. It makes produces 500hp and has a top speed in the quarter of 168Mph and they keep making faster. It can make 7 runs per charge. Here is the link, is really cool. http://www.killacycle.com/ - Killacycle
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Posted By: 91nautique
Date Posted: December-18-2007 at 7:05pm
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Here's your new boat M3
http://www.boesch-boats.ch/ |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-18-2007 at 7:19pm
Heres the smallest http://www.boesch-boats.ch/boats/series-560/560-sundeck-electric-power/560-sundeck-electric-power/ - electric powered one. Better bring your wakeboard, top speed is only 21mph. ------------- |
91nautique wrote:Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: December-18-2007 at 7:42pm
That seems like a pretty weak attempt. Looks like a direct drive motor setup. Right idea, though. Without being an electric motor expert it seems like you could get some major gear reduction going to increase the torque a bit. I keep going back to my 18v drill being so powerful for its size. Imagine scaling that same design up to what, 25x the size? ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: behindpropeller
Date Posted: December-18-2007 at 8:08pm
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Too bad the weight/power is not linear. ------------- |
Posted By: p/allen
Date Posted: December-18-2007 at 9:03pm
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I was buying into it , thought it was a good idea .
Then BANG , You said silent power . That took the excitement right out of it . Maybe we could mount Quinners stereo onboard with classic CC engine tones . That would make it all better. ------------- Pat http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w146/72ccfan/100_5977-1.jpg - My 72 Skier Rock River Dixon,ILL. |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: December-18-2007 at 9:03pm
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I'm putting a 900 RIVIERA DE LUXE w/ twin 454's in my annual Christmas letter to Santa. Maybe it's too late or have I not been good enough this year?
Honestly, I can see the day coming when I will be looking to convert to E85 fuel. We have plenty of that in Iowa! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: December-18-2007 at 9:55pm
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If I crunched the numbers right....
1KW=1.36 HP 50KW=68HP I think Petes Atom Skier Tops that. And for yall that want the sound we are working on that problem, It is in the think tank now .As it comes to the surface it will be posted here. ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: December-18-2007 at 10:57pm
There's a new term, "attaining the Gliding Phase"  is that code?------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: hasbeenskier
Date Posted: December-18-2007 at 11:13pm
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Dude, First the myth busters thing, now this... put down the herb.
bj ------------- hasbeenskier |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-19-2007 at 8:15am
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Yes there are electric tug boats but they have a means of generating power and are not on batteries. Using this all battery Boesch as a example, I don't feel anyone would be happy with its performance. The Boat Doc is certainly on the correct track with the HP of the Boesch electric. They are using a 3 phase AC motor with a inverter setup for frequency-speed control so I'm comming up with roughly about 110 HP. (190 amps X 250 volts X 1.73 - 3 phase multiplier Divided by 746 with 100% efficiency. (efficiency is unknown so HP will be lower) That's not much HP compaired to gas but considering the top speed of 22 MPH is about right. Yes, my little Atom with the 60HP does better than 35 but of coarse is a lighter and smaller boat. Depending on the type of battery they are using, I figure they have 20 or 21 hooked in series. (they look like gel cells so it may be 20) A 4D gel gives you 180 amp hours so with that size you will only get about a hour of boating/sking (at 22MPH!!) before the volts are pulled down to the recommended min. This is if you were using the full HP drawing the 50,000 watts (190 amps).
Joel, With a gear reduction, yes, you would gain torque but you will loose RPM which means swinging a larger prop. The reduction drives in our gas ski boats now only improves the hole shot due to the larger prop. I don't think that is the answer. A electric motor has plenty of torque and increases with RPM. As with electric cars, I feel the battery technology just isn't there yet. I wonder what the wake looks like? With 20 4D gel cell, that's 2600lbs of ballast! (130lb X 20) Edit mistake: Electric motor torque decreases with more RPM. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: December-19-2007 at 11:15am
Ok, finally some good technical input on the subject! Exactly what I was looking for. An assumption I had made was that the electric motor would be capable of much higher RPM then a gas or diesel. So, with the reduction I was thinking that the reduction would "reduce" WOT RPM to 4400 RPM or so from something way higher, like 10k RPM or more. If that's not possible then oh well. Going back to the example of my drill, the reduction is pretty extreme, which is what initially got me thinking about this. Far more than a 1.5:1 or 1.23:1 ratio- I'm talking 10:1 or more. As another example, my RotoZip's 5A electric motor turns 30,000 RPM (just an example- I'm not thinking of powering a boat with a RotoZip). I'd imagine with some reduction you could see some major power at 4400 RPM. So, smaller, weaker motor with high RPM and serious redux. Is that feasible? ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-19-2007 at 11:33am
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Joel, I made a error in my statement! The torque of a electric motor decreases as RPM's increase so any reduction you put on the motor isn't going to change torque but rather keep it constant. What I was trying to say in my previous post is if you increase the motor RPM, you will loose torque but then with a reduction box you will gain it back. You are now back to the point of having no box. You also would need to figure in losses in the gear box. They are not 100% efficient. Matching the correct motor to the correct prop would be the way to go without a gearbox.
The bottom line problem that still exsists is the batteries. A boat requires energy to keep it up on plane (or as Boesch calls it "gliding phase") and that consumes lots. Cars on wheels have very little rolling resistance and most of the power is to overcome the wind resistance. You can't create needed energy with a gearbox. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: FINS
Date Posted: December-20-2007 at 2:01pm
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Pete- This should be right up your alley... except for the price tag! Twin screws in a inboard runabout would be great. Their website shows a video of someone wake boarding. We also have a Fiberglassics member that has grafted a 105# trust electric trolling motor into a old outboard case. They are just getting ready to test it.
http://edisonboats.com/ - EDISON BOATS  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2262&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1925&yrend=1960" rel="nofollow - 59 ATOM Lake Tapps, Wa. |
Posted By: Mojo
Date Posted: December-20-2007 at 2:09pm
Can you say "Sticker Shock"
 ------------- 05' SV211 TE 73' Martinique had:96' SNOB had:76' Nautique had 77 Tique |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: December-20-2007 at 2:26pm
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Still, that's thinking outside of the box- why have one big motor when perhaps two smaller ones would work better? There has to be a solution here, although it may defy conventional thinking. ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: December-20-2007 at 2:37pm
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Don't tug boats and trains have deisel electric engines in order to eliminate a transmission? ------------- |
Posted By: 64X55
Date Posted: December-26-2007 at 1:15pm
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Here's some more on the Boesch:
http://blog.tradeonlytoday.com/dealer_outlook/index.php/?p=52 Wow! Okay, all "electric boat w/o V8 sound" nonsense aside... ...just kidding; the ideas are interesting and sad to say (for those (like me (and most of you)) addicted to V8 sound, they are probably necessary ideas. I can appreciate thinking, as was mentioned above, "outside the box" except when it comes to inboard sound! That's where I like to think inside the box; and I mean actually inside the box, the dog box, the engine box! It's easier to think "period" with V8 sound in the background. It drowns out every distraction! Someone thought outside the box once with digital cameras. I'm sure everybody by now has noticed that their digital cameras make a click sound that sounds like an old mechanical shutter "THAT ISN'T ACTUALLY IN THERE!" You can turn that sound off on many digital cameras. It's like "silent choice" (or captain's choice?) for shutter bugs. It's for "getting old dogs" (like us), but in the camera world, who can't imagine that their camera has actually taken a picture without going "CLICK!" Similarly, I can't imagine a skier yelling "Hit it!" and the next sound you hear closely resembling the sound of a Makita (er, I mean Milwaukee) cordless drill! Seriously, all "sound" discussion aside, the actual power capability still apparently has a good ways to go. You notice all references to skiing are directed toward wakeboard, trick ski and/or wake surf speeds (i.e. "SLOW"). Even without using my handy "km/H to mph" converter, I'm seeing numbers that basically mean "slow." Here's a good conversion chart for aging skiers: < 50km/H = "Too Slow!" Since 50km/H means close enough to 30 mph, it means those numbers you're seeing with those nifty electric boats are still "Too Slow" for your basic old dog skiing (barefoot and slalom). I do like the old wood designs some of those companies are doing the E-boats in - those are some pretty boats, but I think that's just another attempt to entice a certain age of boaters into the fold. Still, I guess I could live in a world without the super cool sound of gas engines provided the electrics (or whatever (hydrogen maybe??))were as powerful as gas AND less expensive to run. Think about folks that lived life using horses and liked it that way. I'm sure that was a tough transition for many. Maybe that's why the automobile's first power plant's (gas engines) were said to generate something cleverly named "HORSEpower!" ------------- Inboards Rule! |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: December-27-2007 at 12:06pm
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emd, which i believe stands for electric motor division, Detroit diesel, on trains,
uses a main power plant to motors (word correctly used) at wheels, never on an electric powered tug but i believe they are out there on larger vessels. I was on a 85 foot tug once and was pretty green at the time and we were tied off to the docks and the throttle hung wide open with the trans engaged, the tug tilted far to the side and scared the sh*t out of me, i was in the engine room, they got the throttle to come to idle....its one of those things you dont forget ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: December-28-2007 at 1:34am
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I gotta agree with Pat...why silent? How many heads would turn on the ramp when you fired her up? And ain't that at least part of the reason we are here?
Better ease up on the reefer. john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: Aemmer
Date Posted: December-28-2007 at 1:45am
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Eric,
I watched a 5" tow line stretch and snap one time when we ran a barge aground. Picture a ski rope handle flying back into the boat after a fall X 100. ------------- 88 2001 |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: December-28-2007 at 10:09am
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Aemmer, who did you work for? i did alot of work for American commercial barge lines down in South America,
Ive heard of these lines snapping and never seen it, the crew always told me about them snapping and to stay away we we were underway ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 64X55
Date Posted: December-28-2007 at 2:49pm
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jbear,
You're right! I just thought about it for 30 seconds and you're right; silent boats are stupid! 
Your tag (or whatever you call those little quips there at the end of every post) has been my favorite since I saw it: "Loud pipes save lives!" And the sound is a big part of why mine says "Inboards Rule!" So I take it back. I wouldn't be happy in a noiseless boat world. I'm not sure what I was thinking?
Every now and then I get real practical for no good reason! ------------- Inboards Rule! |
Posted By: 79Tique
Date Posted: December-28-2007 at 4:46pm
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A friend of mine down in Phoenix has a custom built electric sports car built in about 2003. The thing cost him about 80K but it has no generator and is hella fast! If you give it full pedal from the stop it pulls to 100mph so fast it's very hard to control. If you drive it hard you only get a couple hours of driving, but with light driving you can get about 4 hours.
The tech must be better now, why not an electric ski boat? ------------- Work to live, not live to work. |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: December-28-2007 at 4:59pm
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How about this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster - Tesla Roadster ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: December-28-2007 at 6:03pm
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Tesla is built in our area. One of my reps has been calling upon them seeking their computer business. Kind of neat looking car. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: December-28-2007 at 6:26pm
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"You're right! I just thought about it for 30 seconds and you're right; silent boats are stupid!"
64X - Here is a Baby Boomer Solution for our latest technological hurdle. The tree huggers will be proud of us. http://cgi.ebay.com/1963-MATTEL-V-RROOM-VRROOM-VROOM-HOT-RODDER-ENGINE_W0QQitemZ180199761463QQihZ008QQcategoryZ30QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting - Vrroom Vrroom |
Posted By: 64X55
Date Posted: December-28-2007 at 10:30pm
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I don't think that will be loud enough... ------------- Inboards Rule! |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: December-28-2007 at 10:53pm
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You guys have this sound thing all wrong.....
Quinner has the speakers and the amps that will supply at least 1000 watts, more than enough DB's for that sound we all crave. Now what we need is a digital recording of a AA/FC at full tilt for the take off fading into a top end run for the cruise mode. This would keep Barney at bay while we play at the other end of the lake. Loud and proud = GREEN ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: 64X55
Date Posted: December-29-2007 at 12:36am
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Wouldn't the 1000 watt sound system drain the electric engine's battery too fast ?
Oops! Pardon me; "...motor"! ------------- Inboards Rule! |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: December-29-2007 at 12:43am
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You missed the point.......
You can go slow but sound fast.... 2 group 27 deep cycle batts would give you 4hrs of top fuel sound and would peter out at about the same time the " fuel guage " shows empty for the boat batts........... ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: 64X55
Date Posted: December-29-2007 at 2:46pm
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Okay, I'm up to speed now, but how about a 3rd option.
Real gasoline V8 power "PLUS" the sound system thing! Oooo! Maybe that would be "too much!" .... ....Naaaaa! ------------- Inboards Rule! |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: December-30-2007 at 11:33am
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if you really sit and think about it, all of the up front money from the gasoline companies was spent along time ago, all the refineries are paid for so whatever they pump out at 100 bucks a barrel is close to heavy profits, they fore-see the coming age of electric cars, hydrogen cars, as the same for boats, i would say they see the end is near, with the way technology progresses within 20 years will be saying remember the sound of my 2000 correct craft, sorry for anaylizing but i keep seeing these advertisemants on these cars, and at one time i would of never of thought we would be hanging thin TV's on the wall or driving around with a phone ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: December-31-2007 at 9:06pm
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64X - Check out the electric tow vehicle for the Edison. I wonder if there is room in the bed for a genset - for when they are both dead & tying up the boat ramp.
http://www.greencar.com/features/phoenix_electrified/ - Electric Truck |
Posted By: 64X55
Date Posted: January-01-2008 at 10:27pm
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Okay, so you back your "ELECTRIC" truck and your "ELECTRIC" boat into the "WATER" ...
... Wait a minute! Is this even safe?
Just kidding. The little truck looks interesting. ------------- Inboards Rule! |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: January-02-2008 at 10:54am
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$75K for the batteries in that truck.
That would buy alot of dino pee. I'm going to be a late adopter of this technology. |
Posted By: 64X55
Date Posted: January-03-2008 at 1:34am
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That sounds right. I noticed one of those pretty electric wood boats was $100,000.
So I guess that's $25,000 dollars worth of boat, and $75,000 worth of battery! ------------- Inboards Rule! |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 12:24am
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Remember this conversation guys? Head over to Schnitz's site http://www.schnitzskis.com/newsflash.html - here and scroll about 1/4 of the way down. Looks like the electric ski boat is a reality. NIce video showing several skiers including April Coble Eller skiing an electric boat. ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: SN206
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 12:32am
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Link won't work. ------------- ...those who have fallen and those who will. |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 2:20am
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Try it now. ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: michiel200
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 4:25am
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Very impressive!
Any details available on the engine, batteries, range, costs? Don't know what April means by "no powerboats allowed in Europe". There are emission restrictions for a few lakes in Switzerland and South Germany, but thats about it. The number of places where you are allowed to go faster than 14 mph are limited, but this is a speed issue. ------------- '92 BFN |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 4:45am
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I like the idea of an electric driven ski boat. Now make one that has a gas generator that will charge the batteries for longer trips.
This would certainly free up a lot of room in a boat. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 8:58am
And what would the engine generator do? Think about it - you'd be better off just with the gas engine. Power generation is far from being 100% efficient (probably around only 60%) and nether is a electric motor (around 90%). Why do they need to have cooling - because the waste energy is heat! You'd be burning more gas!! All electric - not very green ether when you consider the power generation needed. Your off coal fired out of Green Bay. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 9:35am
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did anyone see the link on the 11.86 1/4 mile datsun? 300hp, 800 lb ft of torque
re-charge stations at the lake? or just swap the batteries, they are getting lighter everyday ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 12:58pm
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yes I did!! pretty impressive... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: Sephmu
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 1:57pm
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Catching up a lil late on this one...
All those batteries in a boat, I could never see a maintenance problem surfacing there! Here in FL, salt floats in the air no matter where you are, and I know we all love corrosion here right?! Then again, your toolbox would only consist of a wire brush and contact cleaner
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Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 4:17pm
actually that is refere to as a hybrid, and you don't want to use a gas ICE as your APU for a hybrid system. Typically you can get better efficiency using a small diesel as the APU for this application. In theroy you don't need batteries at all but most have them anyway, the thought is you can go pure electric for so many miles before the APU kicks in and feeds the drive motors electricity. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 10:15pm
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Blah...Blah... Blah...Blah.....
when the sound of your speakers is louder than your motor its time to stop. its no mufflers for me...till the last drop of oil is gone. my .02 worth. Thanks. john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-01-2010 at 10:03am
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John, you know better, it would be nice with electric. like last night at 1:00 sneaking into the drive lol ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: May-02-2010 at 12:11am
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My sneaking in days are over. The gates of our development close early..you gotta be home. You know how it is in these over 55 places. Or you'll know sooner than you think!
john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: May-02-2010 at 1:50am
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The hybrid boat already exists. Epic makes them in California, it has a diesel motor powering a generator to charge the bateries which run th motor. Supposed to run for about an hour on electricity before the motor kicks in, so all you short session people might never hear the motor run.
I've folowed these boats over on Wakeworld since they were a drawing on a napkin. The guy who started the company also works for someone who is designing electric cars, so the hybrid boat was right up his alley once he got done with the gas powered one. I used one of their boats to pull our hydrofoil sideshow at the dragboat races last year. It was very interesting, 23 ft, has a mercruser big block and weighs 3000 lbs dry. It will also hold 4000 lbs of ballast and has dual rudders. We ran it unloaded for acceration purposes and with the mercury electronics you set the pick up and your speed and when your ready you throw the lever. The post pulls the skier up the exact same every time and then rockets up to the exact speed, it did slow down in the sharp turns where everyone had to hold on, but as soon as I strightened it out we were back to speed almost instantly. I really liked it, it was very stripped down by modern standards, but had everything you needed to get the job done. The bad part a out the hybrid boat is that it is rumored to be $150000. I have heard that they have actually sold a few in Europe where the taxes are so high on the regular wakeboats that it starts to make since. I also saw that they will be using some of those Boesch wooden boats to bull some of the events in the Barefoot Worlds this summer in Germany, I'm guessing it won't be the electric one. http://23e.epicboats.com/ - http://23e.epicboats.com/ |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-02-2010 at 10:18am
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you guy's always forget when calculaters and digital watches came out, they were a thousand a piece, even the 42 flat screens...they were 13k if i remember correctly.
i have a magazine at work thet features about 5 companies that are manufacturing hybrid boats, high end stuff though, wont be long ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-02-2010 at 10:26am
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I can see a electric or a hybrid in places where you are regulated and have to use one but if not, they simply are NOT "green". Anyone who thinks this has been scammed!! There's no regenerative braking which is the key to energy savings in cars/trucks/train locos. Then there's the "cradle to grave" natural resources needed to build one of them!!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-02-2010 at 11:27am
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Pete, would nuclear reaction be considered green? a golfball size piece powers a nuc sub for 6 months ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: May-02-2010 at 12:17pm
| Sail boat, that would be green. I don't think you can make a trulry green boat, just one that uses less fuel, and even that would be quite a challenge. I wonder what plugging in these cars and boats does to your electric bill, nobody ever says much about that part. |
Posted By: C-Bass
Date Posted: May-03-2010 at 12:29pm
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Pete hits the nail on the head here. The electric used to power the motors (typical motor = 90% efficient) comes from the batteries. The batteries get their juice from a power plant (typical = 33% efficient) or the onboard internal combustion engine (typical = 25-30%) powering a generator (typical = 95%.)
Quick and dirty efficiency here... if you're using the juice from the grid to charge the batteries, to then power the motors & turn the prop, you're at around 29% efficiency. Say you run it out of juice, and need to use the onboard engine to get a charge...so now you're at 25% efficiency. How is that any better than using just the regular old engine in the first place(25-30% efficient)??? Robbing Peter to pay Paul, and calling it green....I don't think so. I'm with J-Bear...I wanna hear the V8 make some noise, especially when it's not affecting the environment any more than a "green" engine. ***This is not to say that there will not be a greener solution in the future. ------------- Craig 67 SN 73 SN http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6103" rel="nofollow - 99 Sport 85SN |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: May-03-2010 at 12:49pm
If the APU (Auxilery Power Unit) was gas then you might be in the efficency range you state but the APU's are typically high effeciency Diesel units. Using a gas ICE as the APU is not very common and gennerally frowned upon in the industry. We used a three cylinder Diesel APU in the Class 6 Hybrid Buses running in NYC, a singal or twin cylinder diesel APU is all would be needed to run the motors in a car or boat application. Also Regen braking doesn't really add much to the range in a car's application either, might get you another 5 minutues of run time over the course of packs charge. Typically the APU doesn't charge the battery pack but feeds the motors and does little charging of the pack and while under heavy load in electric mode the APU kicks in to add more Current to the system. Most applications the pack is used to get the vehicle started and the APU is turned off when not in motion, like at a stop sign, you start from a dead stop on 100% of the pack then the APU fires and drives the motors, less polution is the end result. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: C-Bass
Date Posted: May-03-2010 at 1:02pm
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Good point Chris, the APU's definitely are more efficient ICE's than a normal 351w or similar.
On that same subject, there is definitely some grid power that is produced above the 33% efficient I used, but I was just aiming for an typical fossil fuel powered plant. There definitely are some neat things going on in the alternative power industries. ------------- Craig 67 SN 73 SN http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6103" rel="nofollow - 99 Sport 85SN |
Posted By: FUN-9C1
Date Posted: May-03-2010 at 3:55pm
LOL!! My sentiments exactly! I've never bothered to put a radio in mine because I have yet to hear a song that I like better than the unmuffled sound of my 351. In fact, as I'm typing this, I've got the headphones on listenting to a recording I made of my SN running in the driveway the other day. :) (in case you're wondering, no, I'm not joking) Enjoy it while you can. It ain't gonna last forever. ------------- '86 2001 '50 Century Imperial Sportsman |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: May-07-2010 at 2:35am
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The gas generator would work like the generator on the soon to be released chevy volt.
That little generator motor burns a lot less gas than the 5.8 liter v8. Now as to my grid energy, we got rid of coal power a long time ago. I am a lot closer to Milwaukee than Green Bay. Like 15 minutes north of Milwaukee close;) Actually we pull electricity from Port Washington, like 8 minutes away. That Port Washington facility went from coal to natural gas in like 2004. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-07-2010 at 8:41am
Tom, It is quite obvious you have absolutely no idea how a hybrid on the road works. So, no electricity in the house up north. Very quaint. You like "roughing" it!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-07-2010 at 10:24am
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www.frauscherboats.com www.boesch-boats.ch www. colomboboats.com
www.superioryachts.com www.felleryachting.com www.farmontyachts.com www.aequusboats.com www.finelineryyachting.com www.scalaryyachten.de www.gasti-boote.de ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-07-2010 at 10:30am
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better wake up, cruising at cruise speed, 5 hours then charge
hydrogen over electric, not much trade off, but finding the hydrogen is the problem ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: May-07-2010 at 12:59pm
Quite honestly I could care less what I drive so bring on the hybrids or whatever else there is to relieve the oil dependency BUT you're not taking away my american v-8 dino juice burning noise maker. You can't stop progress so let them make whatever fits the purpose but you'll definately hear me coming. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: May-07-2010 at 1:52pm
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Yeah the gas burners sound good, but I am young yet and I can adapt.
Some day I will be able the tell the difference in sound between the mushy clicky brushless dc electric motors in the stock boats and the high intensity whine of of the inverter driven internal permanent magnet synchronous motors in those that have been hot-rodded. The guys who are real good can tell you if those internal magnets have been staggered or not.. Seriously someday we will be talking about overclocking the processor in your inverter so you get a quicker throttle response, or how far we can safely laser cut a stator stack to get in a bigger neodymium magnet to increase bottom end torque. Sure it might take a hundred years but with advances in medical science we might live to see it. Right now it is is expensive but there are some fun things going on with electric motors, efficienies in the low to mid 90's are out there now in mass production.. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: May-07-2010 at 2:38pm
ha, I'm old and cranky so I limit my adaptabilty to daily transportation not my toys! ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: May-07-2010 at 3:12pm
Well we rulled out the syn type rotors in the AC induction motors has not being a viable option to use in a Hybrid, Not sure any one uses magnets or DC motors in an electric or Hybrid application either all of our products where A/C 3 phase motors running off of an inverter. The Copper bar and endrings for the rotor was the hot ticket but costly when comparing it to a cast aluminum rotor set-up. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: May-07-2010 at 5:37pm
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My $.02.
Right now it is not really about efficiency. It's about long term renewable and clean energy. Use those terms and be labeled "liberal," "treehugger," or "environmental wacko." Not the way to win votes if you are a politician, and not the way to make money if you are in the business. Particularly not when people are struggling to pay for things as they already exist. As Joe said, eventually the efficiencies will be there, but those with vested interests must find a way to sell ideas and make money in the short term. Short term for politicians, and those in business to make money, it's about what it takes to sell the ideas and products. Whether true or false, electrics and hybrids are labeled in the manner that sells. A 50 mpg Prius is labeled as fuel efficient, and economical, whether the actual numbers are there or not. They talk about "green" and "saving the earth," but these are arguments which don't appeal to the masses. I think you see much more marketing emphasis on creating jobs in a new marketplace, and on saving money, which, again, true or false, are the messages which people want to hear. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: May-07-2010 at 6:28pm
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Oh come on, Pete.
That's a big assumption you are making. Maybe you should read more about the volt and how it works:) Ok, yes, I have electricity at the cottage. But we get most, if not all the electricity up there from the hydro electric dams on the Wisconsin river. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-08-2010 at 12:12pm
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i would bet my life in the early years, 1900 ish, there were the steam engines and the the masses having discussions of....how could that petrol burning thing ever replace a steam engine??? its not possible.
there were guys that said it was impossible to fly... ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |