New Nautique Production System
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9674
Printed Date: December-21-2024 at 10:01pm
Topic: New Nautique Production System
Posted By: M3Fan
Subject: New Nautique Production System
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 4:53pm
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I was surprised that nobody really commented on this Bill Yergin post a while back: http://www.correctcraft.com/Blog/index/nautique-production-system - New Production System . I looked up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean_Six_Sigma - Lean Six Sigma and read into it a little bit. What does everybody think about CC streamlining their manufacturing process? Reading between the lines, did anyone else get a feeling that Bill was trying to say that they will be using different building techniques for the boats now? Is this good, bad, or inconsequential? Thoughts? ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Replies:
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 5:08pm
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With a new factory, I would think it would be more assembly line, factory type of production. I toured the old factory in 2000, and it consisted of cement block buildings and the production seemed very labor intensive and everything was hand made, much like you'd expect a small boat yard to be.
I would guess their manufactoring process will be more like a big boat company's. ------------- |
Posted By: anthonylizardi
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 5:10pm
| I am a Green Belt, i.e. newbie, in Six Sigma process. Basically in an "ideal" situation what will happen is that they would start eliminating or transforming poor processes. Quality and profits should go up. In the aero world that's how we can keep an F-16 cost about the same. The price of everything goes up every year but if you improve the profit by reducing the cost then you can make money without blowing away the tax payer. It should be a win-win situation. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 5:26pm
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I love all the "six sigma" and "system" MBA terminology. To me it's pretty basic, make a profit by turning out a good product with minimal cost and waste. ------------- |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 5:30pm
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Will this help drive the value of the old "hand built" boats? It sure has in the realm of musical instruments, although I realize it's a totally different industry. ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 5:44pm
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they are not changing the way they build boats or the materials that they are using.
Lean six sigma is not building something until there is a need for it, i.e. an order for a 2008 230 SAN in red with gray stripe or a pull system vs. a push system. wait tell there's an order and build it, or build it then try and sell it hopefully by the end of the month. It basicly a process improvement tool to judge quality, reduce scrape/waiste and improve production process all ready in place and implimenting new ones as needed. So look forward to a higher quality boat in the near future and better stock returns if you own any in the company. This Stuff has been around for decades just not a lot of talk about it. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 5:45pm
Agreed, but taking the time to step back, evaluate and change processes is sometimes much easier said than done. You would think it would be common sense- but sometimes theres more to product improvement than meets the eye. Not to mention that the actual implementation of change can be very difficult, especially in an old-school production environment. ------------- |
Hollywood wrote:Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 5:47pm
won't change a damn thing ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 5:48pm
From a personnel point of view especially. I've been implementing a new ERP system here to replace 100% manual processes and spreadsheets and I've gotten an entire career's worth of experience in managing expectations and change in an organization. ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 5:50pm
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One of my concerns is that perhaps one process to be streamlined would be, say, building the floor into the boat. And building stringers into a boat by hand. Wouldn't it be easier and more streamlined to pre-fab this stuff and glue it down? Oh wait- other companies already do that...
Just seeding conversation here. ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 5:50pm
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there's not a whole lot of areas to change your not building a boat using a robot to lay-up the hull completely. You could use one to run the gel-kote and chopper gun, but rolling it out and laying down the glass cloth is not going to work they just don't have a robot to do that what so ever. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: anthonylizardi
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 5:52pm
| I totally agree with 79. It won't change anything. For example, I was evaluating a test station for an Engine Controller. We did a process map and then a FMEA (failure mode evaluation analysis). We determine were the problems might be. We started taking data on the pressure controlles and compare three other standard. At the end we found that the current controller were not optimized for the range of the test and that the calibration tool had a drift over time. This reduced 80% of false failures on that test station and the metrology people wanted to kill me because I proved their equipment was crap. |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 5:56pm
well I'm betting CC does too as they are using composite stringers now an it's impossible to create a hollow space with out some support, could use a foam core and layout the cloth after thah but then your going to need a very large vacuum to impregnate the foam with resin so that's not going to happen either. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 5:57pm
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yea nobody wants to be told they are wrong even if you have cold hard facts in front of them and it's clearly an issue they are causing. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 6:02pm
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hey think of it this way it's something they should have done 10 years ago if not 20 years ago, the concept was out there then and it was being taught then too, and guess where it was taught first after it was run out of the U.S. by the Big 3, that's right Japan. what was it Keaton or Demming that pioneered the concept, don't quite remember what I was taught back in the 80's sorry killed those brain cells I guess. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 6:02pm
Malibu churns out boats that are GREAT boats and are built in what appears to be a much more efficient fashion. Notice how once they switched to their FIBECS stringer system, they absolutely took off as a company. There's no way that CC could NOT consider changing their techniques after seeing successes like this, IMO. Malibu is doing very well and I'm sure something could be learned from their building techniques. Again, just throwing it out there. ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: anthonylizardi
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 6:03pm
| For example a friend of mine placed a holding bin close to the operator so he would place the duct covers when installing a new part. This reduced chances of FOD, foreign object damage, in the airplane. |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 6:06pm
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Joel bad words just bad words...
hey off topic a little who's got the uglist towers nowa days? centurion, have you seen them lately, butt ugly junk is all I saw at the boat show over the week-end pretty sad looking stuff if you ask me. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 6:11pm
Ha, ha. Seriously though- let's say you're new to CC and coming in with a fresh corporate perspective on processes. Wouldn't you look at some of the hand-built stuff like stringers and floor as something that could be made more efficient? I guess my point is that some of the "inefficiencies" in CC's manufacturing might be exactly what makes them special. ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 6:22pm
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Many corporations rolled out "Six Sigma" years ago.
Identify waste and eliminate it. Identify wasted effort and eliminate it. Identify suppliers of defective parts/equipment and eliminate them. Bottom line is, monitor everything and change nothing.... They usually find that it costs more than the return on the investment and is shelved. Roger ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique 1966 Barracuda |
Posted By: anthonylizardi
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 6:37pm
| Here at work C-130J, F16, F-22, and F35 they are assemble by workers. The way the product is put together has change some but the part of the process that is good has remain the same. Stuff that Roger mention are the ones you target. That saving you can pass some to the customer. Either in the product price, quality, or features. It makes you more competitive in the long run. Look at the F16, born in 1974 still state of the art and very capable. Lean Six Sigma teaches you where to look, evaluate, and implement process improvements. |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 6:42pm
Agreed, but it hasn't seen much competition in that time from other nations. ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 6:43pm
I was going to say that, but I thought I would get blasted. If you compare a late model SN to a Malibu, is there anything better about a SN because of the manufactoring process? My 03 Sportster generally is a well made boat, but in taking the back seat out and combing pads off, they do cut corners that I think are a bit shoddy, and could have done a lot better just by someone taking a little more time to put the boat together. I was impressed with the old CC plant, but I don't like change. ------------- |
Posted By: anthonylizardi
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 6:49pm
Agree, there is no competition when you are two step ahead of them. That's why we spend a lot in R&D. The Eurofigther would have been a great competition but they were too late. That's what happen when you have a wing build in Spain and another in Italy. That's just an example. Now we have F22, a lovely beast.  Expensive too, but you get what you paid, that's why we like Correct Craft.
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Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 7:15pm
I don't know how it worked before, but they will still need to build boats that aren't necessarily bought by the final consumer, not dealer. I thought Correct Craft was a privately held company. ------------- |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 8:25pm
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All companies need to continuously improve - they can only live off their reputation for so long. Eventually the competition(if doing CI) will catch up to them & surpass them.
Competition is healthy & the consumer benefits. I think CC's plans are great & totally necessary for survival in the long haul. Chris ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 8:32pm
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They're going to have to increase productivity in a big way to pay for that building. I hope it works out for them.
When I toured the old place in November of 2000, it was on the day that they had the groundbreaking ceremony for the new place. Seems like quite a bit of time passed between that day and when the got the place built. ------------- |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: February-19-2008 at 9:10pm
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Nothing to do about boats,but we've been on the sigma six method for a couple of years.Best thing ever.Normally they are begging you to take days off this time of year,but this year their begging us to work and in some cases making it mandatory.Never in my 31 yrs has this much money been available this early,being mostly 0 out makes it blood money tho.Can't wait until spring when it starts to melt.Needless to say the sigma six has been abandoned since the beginning of Feburary ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 1:13am
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Hey Gary: We've seen a few of these "wonder" programs over the years in our biz. Gotta agree...mostly they were a bust..nuthin' but bs and guys like me and you just got to make more money.
Sorry to see this kinda crap invade our beloved C/C. So much talk and so little good for the consumer. Only guy benefiting is the guy making this stuff up. john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 11:44am
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Riley, there not increasing productivity, they are taking advantage of supply and demand, a Base boat starts around 40k, and go all the way up to 100k, in my eyes there are no new revalations out there, 20 years ago the ski boats were designed to pull skiers and that hasnt changed, they are still designed to pull skiers. all they simply are doing is turning this into a rich mans sport or a rich kids sport so the average avid skier like you and i cant afford to drop 60k on a boat, we could but we would need a heavy 2nd on the house, i think its called capitalizing, they are making more boats nowadays and believe me, they are getting top dollar and top profit, WHY? because they can ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 11:50am
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anthony have you seen the JVLSF might have the lets wrong but the vertical take verson of the stealth fighter that needs no runway to take off. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: anthonylizardi
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 2:02pm
| I have seen the STOVL, short take of vertical landing, version of the F35 JSF. There are two in the production line right now and one out in flight test. The first flight is schedule this year although the first aircraft won't initially use the vertical landing. The second I think would use the STOVL system and the third is for static test. I can't wait to see it action. The other day we had an V-22 tilt rotor aircraft land here in Ft. Worth. The whole experience of seen an aircraft suspended in the air felt weird. Have you see the design of the STOVL system? I think it was amazing how they solved the problems that the Harrier has, like the potential of hot air intake and sub-sonic speed. I saw the first flight of the first JSF and it was amazing. It looks so deadly and when is running the engine is loud. I has so much power that it took off quickly. We had the first STOVL handoff to flight test ceremony the other day. The Marines generals were here. I don't know if it was intentionally but as they were walking out the door the convententional 1st JSF was taking off. They got really excited when they saw it. Sorry for the long post but I am proud of it. I was in the team that desing the software for the electrical power. Who knows if my kid end up flying one of these. |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 3:17pm
don't think I have the clearance to talk about it in any more detail than I all ready have. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 4:15pm
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I called gw BUSH and he said no problem filling us in on the new system, ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: anthonylizardi
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 4:34pm
You can find a lot more on YouTube or any magazine. They even have the schematics of how everything is layed out. Actually some facts I learned from the magazines. I unbealievable how information flies today. The first flight video was avaible in Youtube before we have access to it, go figure. 
Have you seen the Polecat? Go to youtube and search Polecat. Too bad it crashed last year. |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: February-20-2008 at 10:38pm
Aren't they going to have to increase productivity to pay for that new building and stay competitive? Otherwise why do it? When I toured their plant, they didn't strike me as a rich company, but they didn't strike me as a company with much debt. They reminded me of the downeast boat yards you see in Maine that turn out really nice stuff. I hope timing isn't going to be a problem for them. ------------- |