Hellroaring Battery Isolator / Combiners
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Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9758
Printed Date: June-19-2024 at 3:23pm
Topic: Hellroaring Battery Isolator / Combiners
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Subject: Hellroaring Battery Isolator / Combiners
Date Posted: March-02-2008 at 1:30am
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Has anyone had any experience with any of the http://www.hellroaring.com/index.php - Hellroaring Battery Isolator / Combiners ?
I'm getting ready to do some stereo upgrades and install a second battery (Optima Blue Top). I want it set up so that the Stereo is running off of the Optima and the starting battery is isolated from the stereo equipment while the engine is off. I'm thinking about ordering the BIC-95150A set up like this: 
-Where would be the best location to install one of these? should I try to keep it close to the starter? -I think I'm going to try to install the second battery behind the kick panel under the helm along with a 5 channel amp. The starting battery will be left in the back of the boat. any thoughts or suggestions? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Replies:
Posted By: 78nautique78
Date Posted: March-02-2008 at 7:26pm
| A perko switch is 30 or 40 bucks at overtons. It's a battery selector switch. |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: March-03-2008 at 2:03am
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78....
I'm familiar with the Perko switch setup and I don't want to go that route. I don't want to have to remember to switch the switch all the time. I like this type of device since it operates fully automagicly. 
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: March-18-2008 at 2:44am
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I can't believe no one has seen or used one of these...
Anyway, I ordered one and got it last week and have started to think about how I am going to mount and wire it. The guy I talked to at Hellroaring said that it would be best to mount it as close to the starter as possible I think I want to mount it to the aluminum under the engine cover. I'm not sure if this is a good idea or not. if it is a suitable location, what type of screws should I use to mount it? I took some pics showing the size and where I want to place it... 
 ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-18-2008 at 9:39am
RiO, I'd worry about drilling the holes in the glass more than what screws to use to mount it. I've never had much luck drilling glass even with the special drill bits. 
Seriously, The location on the aluminum (grounded) and vertical for air flow through the heat sink looks good. I would use some self tapping stainless 8-32's ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Randy_in_Ohio wrote:Posted By: Bremsen
Date Posted: March-18-2008 at 12:35pm
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I have heard good things about the Hellroaring. I went with the Yandina; basically the same concept. So far its worked very well.
I would suggest installing a perko along with the combiner. Just leave it in the 1 position for automatic charging/isolating, but you still have the option to switch over to the stereo battery if needed. I had a draw on my starting battery early in the season and was glad I was able to switch over to the bluetop to get the boat started. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=923&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Our 88 SN2001 |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: March-18-2008 at 2:26pm
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Thanks for the response.
I will pick up some stainless 8-32's and mount it on the aluminum. Bremsen, I am planning on installing the remote switch and remote LED option. this is supposed to allow switching to the aux. battery if needed, to start. Mike from Hellroaring explained that it may take about 10-15 minutes to transfer enough power from the aux. battery to the starting battery to start but would save the trouble of jumping or moving the battery's in an emergency situation. they sell this remote kit but all it is is a 3 way on-off-on switch and a remote LED, I am able to buy this stuff pretty cheap at the local electronics part store. my plan is to mount the switch/LED in the kickpanel... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: March-18-2008 at 4:20pm
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I'd be worried about that mounting location in the event that the bilge fills to capacity, e.g. during a rainstorm without a cover, etc. ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: Bremsen
Date Posted: March-18-2008 at 7:38pm
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Randy, mine has that same remote option, though I didn't opt to use it. Problem I found with the remote is that you can't select batt 2 by itself, you can only combine in an emergency.
Here is the problem scenario: The starting battery is dead. Click, click. Voltage on Batt 2 is low (you've been on the sandbar for a couple hours) but could still start the boat on its own. You combine the two with the remote switch, the voltage equalizes between the banks and neither battery has enough voltage to start the boat. Thats why I suggest the perko. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=923&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Our 88 SN2001 |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: March-19-2008 at 1:00am
Good point Joel, was not really thinking of that... but, on the other hand, when the boat is not being used it is stored in the garage. Besides if the water would get that high in the bilge I would also have a wet starter and starting batttery which is in the back of the bilge. the isolator/combiner is supposed to be waterproof and looks like it is sealed, so I doubt it would be damaged even if under water. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: March-19-2008 at 1:23am
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Bremsen, That makes sense. I see what your saying but, I'm not sure how you would wire in the Perko.
Wouldn't combining two half dead batteries be better than one half dead battery? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: March-19-2008 at 1:47am
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BTW, can anyone tell me how many amps my stock alternator will put out?
Edit: the alternator puts out 51A, found it printed on the back of the alternator. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Bremsen
Date Posted: March-19-2008 at 1:34pm
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Randy, since the voltage will equalize between the two when you combine, you would be S-O-L. Their method is fine if you have a true backup battery (that doesn't have any current draw) but, IMO, if you are drawing off both batteries then the perko is a better option. I might be taking things to the extreme, but thats just how I am.
Here is an example of how to wire up a perko with a combiner. 
I am a bit surprised that they would wire the combiner so that the house battery is charged before the starting battery. The suggested wiring on my combiner is to charge the starting battery first and then the house. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=923&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Our 88 SN2001 |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: March-20-2008 at 3:07am
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Bremsen,
The Hellroaring combiner is not wired so that the house battery is charged before the starting battery. Once the engine is running both batteries are being charged. At least this is what the guy from hellroaring told me. The more I think about this... as long as everything is run to the aux/house battery including the amp, head unit, lights, bilge pumps , etc. There will not be any drain on the starting battery. Then, the only way you would have a problem starting the engine, is if there is a problem with the connection to the starting battery. And you could always swap the starting battery with the aux battery if the starting battery had a problem. I think I will go ahead and wire the remote switch and LED simply because if the starting battery is weak from sitting for a while I could always draw off of the aux to give it a boost. The LED is supposed to provide diagnostic information. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: March-20-2008 at 2:58pm
Will you be completely rewiring the stock electrical system? Because all accessories (minus the stereo of course) would still be wired directly to the starting battery in the simplest scenario. (Hence, the benefit of the Perko switch.) ------------- |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: March-20-2008 at 3:19pm
well are you going to seal the connections once you run the wires and they are connected to the post way down low in the bilge. And I don't see how mounting it where you are in the postion you show is going to make it higher than the starter as the start can see a little water and still operate, the isolator can't, because as soon has the water hits those stud terminals it will short across them and burn everything up in the process and then now how are you going to start the boat to run the bilge and empty the water. What about the time when you forget to install the drain plug, how about the packing flax going out on you, there tons of unforseen scenerio's where water can and will get up to those lower connections and not touch the starter and you dead in the water with no means to remove the water entering the boat. But by then it's to late to say I should have mounted it here instead of where I did. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: Bremsen
Date Posted: March-20-2008 at 3:19pm
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No problem Randy...just a suggestion. Best of luck with the install. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=923&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Our 88 SN2001 |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: March-21-2008 at 3:32am
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Tim, I am thinking about moving the lights and definitely the head unit over to the aux battery maybe some other things as well, I am going to look at it this weekend and see how much work it will be.
As far as placement of the combiner/isolator, I will take a look this weekend and see if I can find a better place to mount it. I'm thinking there may be someplace in the back I could mount it, Maybe I can find space for the second battery near the fuel tank. I want to keep the cable length down as much as possible. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: March-21-2008 at 5:57pm
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just get some nylon bolts and nuts and mount it right to the side of the battery box for the second battery. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: April-02-2008 at 3:29am
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Bremsen, You were right, the BIC will charge the Aux. battery before the starting battery, if set up like the diagram shown in the first post.
After you mentioned that and I started looking at it... it all started to make sense. I called and talked to Mike from Hellroaring. Mike is a great guy and has been very helpful with this project. I explained what I was trying to do and he told me that I should be using the basic auxiliary isolation method. This setup will isolate the Aux. battery from the starting battery when the engine is off and, once the engine is running , will charge the starting battery first and then switch on at 13.4V and combine the batteries so that both are connected to the alternator. Here is a diagram: 
Thanks Ryan for bringing this up. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: akabulla
Date Posted: February-09-2009 at 3:09pm
| Randy did you ever set this up and how well did it work? |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: February-09-2009 at 4:38pm
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aka,
yes, I did get this set up and it worked out great! I have two Optima blue top batteries with the Hellroaring unit isolating the starting battery when the engine is off. I no longer worry about running the battery dead while floating around with the stereo on. I highly recommend this product. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: akabulla
Date Posted: February-09-2009 at 5:10pm
| Cool thanks Randy! I am going to go that route. Can you tell me the models of your blue tops? Thanks! |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: February-09-2009 at 7:44pm
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I think I got the hellroaring model BIC-95150B. I'll double check later after I'm home.
The Optima Blue top batteries only come in one model... Remember to read everything carefully, you must be sure to use the correct length and gage of wire or you will fry your alternator. Mike at hellroaring was very helpful when I needed help setting it up. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-09-2009 at 7:46pm
Im pretty sure they come in 3 flavors. 34M is a starting batt, D34M and D31M are both dual purpose in different case sizes. ------------- |
Posted By: akabulla
Date Posted: February-09-2009 at 8:31pm
| Joe said he had two of the D34Ms in his boat. I thought the D stood for deep cycle but maybe it stands for Dual? I guess I will start with the starter battery until I get the stereo in and then add the Deep cycle. I am building my own battery box so I can make room for both of them when I am ready to add the second. |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: February-09-2009 at 8:33pm
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Tim, you may be right.... I got mine at Sams club, they only had the one size in the Blue top. It is a dual purpose.
The picture on the website shows two different sizes, mine is the smaller one... http://www.optimabatteries.com/marine/ - Optima ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: akabulla
Date Posted: February-10-2009 at 1:05am
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Sorry Randy I am confused then. You don't have two optimas? One starting battery and one deep cycle? Do you have two of the same or do you have one optima and one different battery all together?
I didn't know they carried them at Sams! That's good to know. I will go check them out tomorrow! Later! |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: February-10-2009 at 1:29am
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I have two Optima Blue Tops. I started out with one Optima Blue as the Aux and one two year old Advanced Auto brand automotive battery. I decided to get rid of the generic battery a couple weeks after getting everything set up. There is nothing wrong with running two different type of battery with the isolator, I just wanted to have two good, fresh batteries.
The Optima Blue that I have are both dual purpose (deep cycle/starting) I picked them up at Sam's for about $150 each. I'm pretty happy with this set up, I have cranked my 5 channel amp for hours and then turned the key and had plenty of power. I also installed a switch and LED in the kick panel, the LED give you diagnostic feedback and I can flip the switch and combine the two batteries in an emergency. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-10-2009 at 11:26am
All the technical info is on http://www.optimabatteries.com/optima_edge/technical_specs.php#blue1 - Optima's website. ------------- |
Posted By: akabulla
Date Posted: February-10-2009 at 1:54pm
| Perfect! Thanks again for the info! |
Posted By: akabulla
Date Posted: February-16-2009 at 12:28am
| I checked out Sam's and they have SC34DM Blue Tops for $99 bucks! It seems TOO Cheap. Is that the same as the D34m-950s? I assume so, right? |
Posted By: MorganB
Date Posted: February-16-2009 at 10:49pm
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No that it looks like this system does not work i think it looks a bit more complex than needed, all you need is a VSR (voltage Sensing Relay) the ones we use will connect the 2 batteries together at 13.6V(off the top of my head) Normal battery voltage when Being charged, as soon as the Motor battery drops below about 13v it will disconnect, it will also Disconnect during engine cranking saving your Electronics on your house battery from getting a spike during starting (very Common)
The main advantage of this is the simplicity to hook up. you leave the normal system as it is, run a positive batt cable from the Start battery to the new battery with the VSR in the Middle, Ground the battery connect your Electronics to the new Batt and your done. this does not give you the Emergency connect function but that is as simple as one battery switch bi-passing the VSR |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: February-17-2009 at 11:26pm
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Morgan
The system works! Not sure where you got that from... I considered using a VSR setup, but after doing much research, decided that the isolator/combiner was a better choice. From what I gathered, relays can be a bad choice due to the high internal resistance and voltage drop problems and they have moving parts that can become corroded or welded. Isolator/ combiner does not have these problems. I know it cost a bit more, but I have always been one to do it once and do it right the first time. 
I have tested this system thoroughly. IT WORKS GREAT! and not too complex either... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: akabulla
Date Posted: April-11-2009 at 5:33pm
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Hey Randy, not to keep beating a dead horse but did you mount the isolator on the cradle like you showed in your original post? What size cables are you using? I assume you stuck with your stock alternator?
Finally got the floor done so I am working the details out on the electrical system. Thanks! |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: April-11-2009 at 7:09pm
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Yes, I mounted it in the cradle below the RWP as shown in the picture. I used the original alternator. I think I used 6 AWG wire from the distributor. You need to make sure you have enough resistance in the wire from the alternator. you may need to use a smaller gauge wire than I did from the alternator depending on how far the alternator is from the battery. I would suggest giving Mike a call at Hellroaring and tell him what you are doing and how far your run is from the alternator. He was very helpful when I set mine up.You should be able to get a hold of him today or just leave him a message and he'll call you back. I would run everything by him first, just to make sure you have it right before you start.
Don't cheap out on your cables or connectors! Remember, the system is only as reliable as the connections. I used the highest quality cables I could find and soldered all the terminals to the wires and used shrink tube. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: mndanielsncsu
Date Posted: April-18-2009 at 11:50pm
| Randy - I've been considering putting in a 2nd battery. Where did you put your 2nd battery? I'm assuming you left one in the original location, under the middle of the back seat? |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: April-19-2009 at 6:02am
I put the second battery under the helm behind the kick panel. I have the battery, 5 channel amp, XM receiver, Ipod controller, and a couple breaker switches under there. If you want, I will post some pics, I have it apart right now installing the XM receiver I mentioned. I had an old XM Roady, one of the original XM radio's, that I canceled five years ago but continued to work for free up until this spring. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: mndanielsncsu
Date Posted: April-19-2009 at 8:41pm
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Yeah, if you don't mind snapping a pic, that'd be great. I'm not sure I'll have room there because I built a custom subwoofer enclosure that takes up some of that space. I had a sub box under the passenger seat, but hated losing the space, so I built this enclosure and rebuilt the kickplate.
I may have to look into it though. I'm running 2 amps that are mounted on the sides of my rear seat and always stress that I'll drain my battery when anchored and listening to music. I have a Optima D34M. |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: April-20-2009 at 12:23am
here's some pics from when I did it.
I built a sub box to fit under the passengers seat. I wish I could have found a better place to put it, but I knew I needed the room under the helm for the battery and amp I figured they would be better off up there since there is no activity back there and it stays nice and dry. The sub doesn't get in the way too bad here, I can still access under the bow seating. 
While were at it, here is one of the 6.5 polk db's 
and the Hellroaring unit... 
And, a close up of my knob. Just because I know everyone here likes to look at my knob! 
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: akabulla
Date Posted: April-20-2009 at 3:05am
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Hey Randy that is a nice looking install!
I see you ran what looks to be like 8 gauge wire from the hellroaring isolator to the secondary battery? That is what I was told to do from HellRoaring. But then you have a 0/1 Gauge wire running off the battery to the amps? So even if the second battery is getting a charge then the least amount of resistance for the amp would be to draw off the battery and not the alternator correct? So would there ever be a possibility of the smaller 8 gauge wire getting hot from the amp possibly drawing down that line back to the isolator? Hope that made sense! I am about 2 weeks out from wiring my entire boat and my plan is to do pretty much exactly like you show in your pics. Later! |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: April-20-2009 at 3:51am
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akabulla,
Thanks, Just finished adding the XM and iPod adapter for the head unit today. Now I can control everything from the head unit. I can't remember all the details of the install but everything works perfect. I used it a lot last year, no trouble. Checked all the cables for excessive heat, all is good. The amp is wired directly to the aux. battery. I don't see how it could draw off of the alternator. Like I said before, I gave Mike from Hellroring a call before I started and ran through all my plans, I did a drawing of everything and scanned it then emailed it to him and he gave me feedback and I adjusted the plans as he recommended. I have a pretty good understanding of electrical circuits, but Mike deals with this everyday, so he knows what he's talking about. I would really recommend giving him a call before you start. I have a pdf of the instructions that came with it, if you want, send me an email and I'll send them to you. you definitely want to have a solid plan before you start. Take you time and do it right. Good luck ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: mndanielsncsu
Date Posted: April-20-2009 at 10:49am
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Thanks for the pics Randy. The install looks good.
I'm going to have to check and see if I can squeeze a battery behind my custom sub box, because I like the idea of having it concealed like you do. I actually had my sub box in the exact location that you currently do. I bought a Q-logic box for my 10" sub, but didn't like how it hit, so I decided to get a new sub and build the box to their specs. Pretty happy with the outcome. I'd like to see the Hellroaring PDF, so I'll shoot you an email. |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: April-20-2009 at 10:55pm
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Matt, check your email... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: April-20-2009 at 11:30pm
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Here are some zip files of the pdf and the drawing that I sent Matt for anyone else who may come across this and need them.
uploads/BIC_9150B_Install_Diagram.zip - BIC_9150B_Install_Diagram.zip uploads/Hellroaring_BIC-95150B_instructions_rev_B.zip - Hellroaring_BIC-95150B_instructions_rev_B.zip ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: mndanielsncsu
Date Posted: April-21-2009 at 2:00am
| Thanks again Randy. Greatly appreciated. I'll keep you guys posted if/when I decide to take this on. |
Posted By: akabulla
Date Posted: April-21-2009 at 2:12am
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This is really good info and not to confuse you to much I am pretty much doing my entire electrical system from scratch for my rebuild and this is what Mike helped me put together. Anything that can run when the boat is off, lights, bilge, blower, etc... will be on the secondary battery!
You can ignore the relay stuff at the top. I am trying to design it so when the engine is on the voltmeter in the dash will show the main voltage and when the key is off I can monitor the secondary battery voltage. 
Later! |