440, 454, or 460?
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9933
Printed Date: September-27-2024 at 7:57am
Topic: 440, 454, or 460?
Posted By: Bhedbloom
Subject: 440, 454, or 460?
Date Posted: March-24-2008 at 11:18pm
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I wanted to get a weigh in on this one?
Which engine should I use to repower my 1968 San Juan? I'm pulling the tired 318 
The Chrysler 440 which was an option in that boat? The Crusader 454 which I have read is easy to get parts for? The Ford 460 which I hear is very reliable like the 351 used for many years? I would like some opinions from some of the engine gurus on the site! I have found all of the engines above for sale at about the same price, but am having a tough time deciding which power plant to use. Thanks for any and all replies! ------------- Barry, South Carolina |
Replies:
Posted By: farmer
Date Posted: March-25-2008 at 12:32am
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I'm no engine guru but I would stay with the Mopar. Probably not the strongest engine but closest to stock. Farmer |
Posted By: MaddMarxx
Date Posted: March-25-2008 at 1:26am
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what compnay do you like the best? But I guess I would go with the 454 first because there are more parts out there for it, and second choice would be the chrylser!
But Farmer does make a good point about sticking with the same brand! ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-25-2008 at 8:55am
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440 - Original!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: March-25-2008 at 9:57am
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454, original would have to be a 318, the build sheet would still say 318 if though the 440 may of been an option
how much does originality affect these boat prices? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-25-2008 at 12:36pm
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I was just looking at engines on marineengine.com and saw this listing for a pair of big block Chryslers. The seller is stating that when the 440 was stopped being made that they used the Ford 460. Have I missed something? Did they use the 460?
http://www.marineengine.com/cgi-bin/suite/classifieds/classifieds.cgi?request=detail&id=13564&category_id=107&sub_id=1039&variable_file=gasinboards.variables&group=1&set=1&position=8&total_count=25&website=default&prev_action=display_sub_list&session=$session - Chryslers on marineengine.com ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: March-25-2008 at 1:21pm
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There are actually more performance marine parts available for the 460 fords than for the windsors. Chrysler sounds expensive, chevy sounds like your doing what every one else is doing (of course sometimes everyone else has a point). Personally I would put in whatever I found the best deal on (including mounts, bell housing, accs etc that stuff will nickel and dime you up into big $$$) and put the rest into gas. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: March-25-2008 at 3:10pm
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All the internal go fast parts for the chrysler and intake stuff isnt really expensive at all. A good set of 915 casting heads and 9.0 to 1 ish compression with a good cam and intake maybe some ported manifolds or hi teks and it would be easy to get well over 400 ponies out of a 440:) but then again im a mopar nut and mopar boats get me all juiced up.
But, I agree with Joe all good choices but the best deal would probably be a good choice unless you have plenty of $$$. You could just build a nasty little 340 and not have to change anything other than the engine. Probably the most cost effective route. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-25-2008 at 3:24pm
I went back in to the marineengine.com site and looked in the manual section. The 460 block was bugging me!! Sure enough, they do list a Chrysler marine 460 in 1986 and 87 so I'll assume it was the Ford. I believe that those years were the very tail end of the Chrysler marine engine. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
8122pbrainard wrote:Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: March-25-2008 at 4:59pm
| I think your right on for the year pete. When my grandpa had his trailer sales back then right between those years I think 88 models motor homes were the last year with the chrysler 440. |
Posted By: nautique frk
Date Posted: March-25-2008 at 9:45pm
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I would build a 454 chevy make it a 468. Regular parts and performance parts for Chevy is much easier to find an less expensive too.
I am a Ford guy but in a case like this I would build a strong big block chevy. Mike |
Posted By: reidp
Date Posted: March-26-2008 at 10:58am
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Don't listen to Mike, afterall he's a freak.
Listen to Joe, who'd rather paddle with a 460 valve cover than run it with a 454, and I agree. But Joe's actual advice I really do agree with as far as the going with the best price for the OVERALL/COMPLETE package. Zup Tennessee Mike? Call me sometime. ------------- ReidP /diaries/details.asp?ID=231&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 1973 Mustang |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: March-26-2008 at 12:27pm
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I (bowtie) am going (bowtie) to stay (bowtie) neutral on(bowtie) this one(bowtie). In the past(bowtie) I would have (bowtie) given you(bowtie) my opinion(bowtie),but really (bowtie) dont want to (bowtie) confuse the issue(bowtie). ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: March-26-2008 at 12:41pm
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Damn it. I just posted the reidp bowtie picture in another thread, this thread would is perfect for it but don't want to wear it out. ------------- |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: March-26-2008 at 1:22pm
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Is it really worth it to replace the existing engine with a big block? How much additional performance are you going to get? How much is it going to cost? And how much are you going to run that boat hard? Seems like that boat is a nice putting boat or maybe cruising somewhere in the 20's type of boat. Maybe a rebuild of the 318 is a good way to go.
But, to answer your question, I'd go the least expensive way. ------------- |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: March-26-2008 at 1:29pm
LMAO! ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: March-26-2008 at 1:59pm
Steve, does this mean that there is a Barracuda with a Chevy engine somewhere in the future? ------------- |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: March-26-2008 at 2:53pm
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Bruce,
Man, I'm torn....Ive got that brand new 350 Crusader engine/trans ,in my garage,still bolted to the original shipping crate,just waiting for a trans-plant. (Put it in and go forever) BUT, even I am having a hard time with a non-original engine in that 'cuda. ..... Moj' found out that there were 6 or 7 SS models built that year. Soooo, what to do? (Pete should be proud, Im talking this way!?) ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: March-26-2008 at 3:17pm
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Steve, I don't think it matters if the engine is original, especially if you've got the original engine available for future use. I'm all for keeping the boat as original as possible, but I don't see engines mods as such a big deal. Is the Crusader a RH? And is it a Vortec? I've got a Vortec Indmar 310 in my 03 Malibu Sporster and it screams. Jeff Costis put a PCM Vortec in his 73 Mustang and screams. You got to do a lot or work on a Ford to make it run like one of those out of the box Vortecs. ------------- |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: March-26-2008 at 3:54pm
Yeah, its a complete Vortec 300 horse with a velvet behind...and it even runs "bacerds"..just like I need! Heres a pic..
 ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: March-26-2008 at 4:05pm
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It runs bacerds? Then it's a no brainer, USE IT. I bet that boat will run 55 mph with that engine.
------------- |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: March-26-2008 at 4:26pm
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Hey Steve,
How would you describe the color on that there engine, Ford Blue? Trying to remember but I think the SBC in my 80' was gold, the 206 SBC is Black. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: March-26-2008 at 9:01pm
Not seeing this. Late model PCM GT40s run just fine with the Chevy's even though they rate 20 less horsepower. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: nautique frk
Date Posted: March-26-2008 at 11:10pm
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Reid,
How bout a stroker 351 ??? Light weight good torque ? I will give you a call. I am currently in Minnesota (Forest Lake, Nisswa, Detroit lakes) and Fargo ND Makeing some rounds before season hits. Mike |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: March-27-2008 at 12:42am
Chris, I couldnt tell you... Ive never had a Ford to compare it with.. kinda baby/sky blue...for now. If I did use the Crusader in the cuda, would probably repaint it and use old style valve covers, etc. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: March-27-2008 at 2:49am
There you go with those "urges" again. There is medication to help your problem. john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: reidp
Date Posted: March-27-2008 at 9:27pm
I echo that Brian! I was previously thinking that Bruce really knew his stuff. I guess I'm gonna have to school him over a lobster and a beer or 20 at the NE Reunion. If only I was bringing a boat.......... ------------- ReidP /diaries/details.asp?ID=231&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 1973 Mustang |
Posted By: reidp
Date Posted: March-27-2008 at 9:40pm
Mike, Great idea about that engine, but JoeNY already beat us to it. And BoatDr has the 302 stroker covered. So how about a stroked 460! Have fun in the great white north. ------------- ReidP /diaries/details.asp?ID=231&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 1973 Mustang |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: March-27-2008 at 9:56pm
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Reid, I looked forward to being schooled over some bugs and a beer or 20. Come to think of it, Steve Workman ought to keep that Barracuda original and sell me the Crusader wicked cheap. Wouldn't the Boat Dr die if I walked right by his American Skier with that plain Jane Crusader. ------------- |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: March-28-2008 at 12:26am
Bruce, I'll keep that in mind, but that Crusader probably aint goin nowhere..  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: March-28-2008 at 4:19pm
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Chev 502 or 572, its only money.. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: reidp
Date Posted: March-28-2008 at 9:31pm
I like that idea Bruce, about Steve keeping the Barracuda orig and selling you the Vortec. I once saw a 'Cuda for sale with a 383. Now wouldn't that be the sh%t, Steve?! But as for the plain Jane Crusader walking the dog on Boatdr, well, his 331 is already north of 300hp, so you might have your work cut out for you. But it sure is a good place to start. The Green Flash......?? ------------- ReidP /diaries/details.asp?ID=231&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 1973 Mustang |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: March-28-2008 at 11:24pm
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383 would be great. Makes me wonder why CC never used them. Mopars do sound nice. Our old Barracuda sounded sweet.
The Green Flash sounds good. I wouldn't change that engine a bit. Probably could even pass it off as a Ford to plenty of people up here in Maine. Those Vortec do go like heck though. You'll get to see Jeff Kostis' for youself at NE. ------------- |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: March-29-2008 at 12:56am
OK...Reid... I like your idea...Now all you need to do is find me that 383 set-up....but Im still not to keen on selling the Vortec. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: MaddMarxx
Date Posted: March-29-2008 at 1:13am
Now who could he be talking about..?? reid..I have a deal in the works that if all goes well I should have the cash flow to order my new AFR heads and cam, soon, so you better put a tune up on the, Baby Blue bomber and the candy-cane crusier!  ------------- |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: March-29-2008 at 3:14am
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Man you guys are callin' each other out months before GL.
john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: reidp
Date Posted: March-30-2008 at 7:39pm
Mark, while I know you hope that any correlation between the color green and speed would naturally be about the your Lime Screamer, this time the "Green Flash" was in reference to Riley (Bruce's) light green Am Skier if he were to drop in 62wood's Vortec. Now go get those heads Mark! ------------- ReidP /diaries/details.asp?ID=231&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 1973 Mustang |
Posted By: reidp
Date Posted: March-31-2008 at 2:08pm
Well lets talk Steve, as I really do like this idea as well, since I do have your 60's vintage complete big block Chrysler sitting in my shop right now, but it's that 413. Do a CCFan "413" search and you can see picts of it when we started to install it in our '68 SN several yrs back. But as you might imagine, the engine could use a rebuild. I bought it as a running engine with a ton of hours on it and the seller/owner acknowledged that it had been using a bit of oil for sometime. But had never been rebuilt before other than head servicing. A rebuild with a new grind cam, alum intake (easily found) and maybe flat top pistons would nicely raise the compression from its orig low 8.2 CR and HP rating of only 280@4000rpm. Something like 10:1 CR and 350 HP at somewhere around 4800 rpm would be cake. I even talked to a vintage cam grinder at Shadbolt Cams some time back who said he had RR blanks. Hopefully they are still in biz. The 413-B Golden Commando engine is listed in the Reference Section Chrysler manual. This particular engine however is a 1964 model I believe, but is still vintage correct, and you can always tell people it's a 383. I'll crate it up and send it out to you COD this afternoon!! I smell 56 mph. ------------- ReidP /diaries/details.asp?ID=231&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 1973 Mustang |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: March-31-2008 at 2:42pm
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Steve, that sounds like an offer too good to refuse. ------------- |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: April-01-2008 at 12:59am
| A keen eye would be able to tell it wasnt a 383. a 413 is a raised block where a 383 is a short deck block. a 426 and a 440 are also raised block but a 400 is a short deck like a 383. Thats pretty cool it was called a golden commando in a boat. thats what they were called in that vintage of cars to. |
Posted By: reidp
Date Posted: April-01-2008 at 1:39am
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Now they didn't need to know all that, Zach. We need to keep a few engine secrets for ourselves, don't we? He'll probably back out of the deal now. Next I was gonna convince him that it's a 413 Max Hemi Indy Wedge, so I could get top dollar. Those GM guys are so gullible. ------------- ReidP /diaries/details.asp?ID=231&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 1973 Mustang |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: April-01-2008 at 1:47am
Hahahah wow reid could you imagine and indy headed big block chrysler in a boat 
Maybe a 505 stroker 440 block with an indy intake and heads. Can you say 600 hp easily:) |