ford vs chevy
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: Common Questions
Forum Discription: Visit here first for common questions regarding your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9996
Printed Date: November-23-2024 at 8:06pm
Topic: ford vs chevy
Posted By: kapla
Subject: ford vs chevy
Date Posted: March-31-2008 at 7:06pm
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Can some tell me why did PCM turned from ford to chevy engines? Sebastian ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Replies:
Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: March-31-2008 at 7:15pm
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My understanding is ford got out of the marinized engine busines in the early 90s, 92 or 93 was the last year, I believe. Obviously a business decision. Others much more familiar (Tim??) can jump in and correct and clarify my statements. ------------- _____________ “So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: March-31-2008 at 7:27pm
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The story Ive heard is that Ford stopped building Windsor blocks sometime in the mid 90's and discontinued their marine program. PCM bought up a bunch of 351w longblocks and continued to offer the GT40 through '02.
And no Eric, it wasnt because the Chevies are better/stronger/faster. Ive lined up against '02-03 196's of both flavors (310hp GT40 and 330hp Excalibur) and the Ford is the stronger engine. ------------- |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: March-31-2008 at 7:40pm
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So basically Ford threw in the towel? ------------- |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: March-31-2008 at 7:54pm
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It ended when Ford came out with their new line of trucks in 1997 which had all new engines. I don't know why they didn't keep building 5.8's for marine use other than maybe the market for them was mostly ski boats and was too small.
GM stopped building the 5.7 for their trucks, I think in 2001, but still builds them for marine use because they have a huge market for whatever reason. ------------- |
Posted By: reidp
Date Posted: March-31-2008 at 8:09pm
What HW actually meant to say was, after so many years of not having any real competition in the inboard ski boat engine business, they decided in 03 to direct more attention to the Mustang vs Camaro deal. And what did GM do immediatly after catching wind about the pending and obviously superior 03 Cobra, they quit making Camaros! So look for Ford to quit building Mustangs soon also, since there's no comp there either. Not. Also, HW might have meant to say that Ford quit while they were ahead. Actually, I think Bruce (Riley) above said it best. ------------- ReidP /diaries/details.asp?ID=231&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 1973 Mustang |
Hollywood wrote:Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: March-31-2008 at 8:23pm
Darn Tim, I was really hoping I was going to see that boat of yours on Sebago and test your theory. ------------- |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: March-31-2008 at 10:12pm
Bruce, I only line up against real ski boats 
Im kidding of course. The lighter/faster hull of your Sportster isnt one Im eager to tangle with just yet. My hull runs pretty planted (read: slow), so while Im not scared of anything when it comes to holeshot, Id lose the top end battle for sure. Let me see if I can fix that problem this spring before I get back to you. ------------- |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: March-31-2008 at 10:19pm
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The Sportster is pretty good on top end, but its bow digs in above 45 so it tops out about 49. Hole shot is what it does best. It'll knock you out of the observer's seat if you're not paying attention. ------------- |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-01-2008 at 12:58pm
Im hoping that some sanding/grinding will have my '90 seeing 49-50 this summer. Holeshot is what it does best now- the only one who stood a chance at GL was Boat Dr, and he was afraid to line up with me. I even put a boatlength on Reid's rocket up to 25-30. The only problem with knocking people out of the observer's seat is that they usually spill their beer. One friend screamed like a little girl when he fell into the back seat, and Ive been smacked upside the head for pulling that stunt (thanks Dad).  ------------- |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: April-01-2008 at 1:07pm
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What will sanding/grinding do to the wake/handling characteristics? You ought to offer to do it to Keith's boat first. ------------- |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: April-01-2008 at 1:14pm
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While out screwing around in the mustang a few years back I hadn't noticed that my friend in the back seat had stood up and was going to lean forward over the engine cover to comment on the last takeoff he was pretty seriously bruised from where he caught the llfting eye in the middle of his back as he bounced off the deck before ending up in the water, nobody slapped me upside the head but they should of... Speed kills but holeshot will bruise you up pretty good. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-01-2008 at 1:15pm
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I dont anticipate any real changes to the wake or handling, but we'll find out once its done. I would just like the hull to run at the same attitude as an average 90-96 Ski Nautique. Mine runs noticeably nose-low (Keith mentioned the same thing), which absolutely kills the top end. Taking some of the hook out of the last few feet should help that.
JR_VIC was running 52+ with similar mods as me (minus the cam and dual exhaust, actually). Right now I have a very average top end speed for a stock HO boat. With an extra 50+ hp on tap, something doesnt add up! Im hoping that its nothing a little sand paper wont fix. I figure I can always add a little hook back in if I need to. ------------- |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: April-01-2008 at 2:09pm
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I still think your crazy to touch that gelcoat. Crazy, go molest your skier, ski behind your nautique.
I mean I am crazy, but not that crazy. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-01-2008 at 3:07pm
Reid said the same thing, but you know for a fact that you both would be doing the same thing if you were in my shoes! Ive been told that I would see a nice improvement by removing just 1/32" to 1/16" of gel at the trailing edge, so Ill take a straight edge to it and start slowly with the sandpaper. I dont want to go all the way through, so wetsanding and buffing it back to a shine wont be a problem. ------------- |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: April-01-2008 at 4:32pm
I am in your shoes, I have a 402hp boat that only hits about 51 but, I ain't about to touch the gelcoat on the bottom. Tear apart a perfectly good engine to replace the cam and gasket match the intake manifold to the heads sure, pay way to much for some custom fit hi teks of course, put in a new fuel system definitely, and throw on some nitrous why not, I would do that, but I wouldn't touch the gelcoat or hull shape. Now on the mustang or in your case skier.. different story those are riding boats at this point, not skiing boats. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-01-2008 at 4:43pm
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, Joe. At least youre breaking 50, though- Ive still got several mph to go before Im there, and I doubt another 50hp would do it. Ive gotta get the nose up, just a little. Rest assured that Ive talked to a few people with experience in this sort of thing (on newer Nautiques specifically), and Im confident I wont do any harm. Its not like Ill be breaking out the angle grinder... at least not yet.
As far as the yellow/red Skier goes, we plan to ski the hell out of it this year. We'll be able to keep it here in MA, where I would never want to do that with my '90. A 16' boat and a single axle trailer is just what this area calls for. The green boat will do some pulling as well, but probably not nearly as much as Nick's. ------------- |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: April-01-2008 at 5:36pm
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Tim, Might be easier just to put a couple of fat sacks in the rear. The Sportster will hit 51 with a full tank and 3 people in the back seat. ------------- |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: April-01-2008 at 5:50pm
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I have no problem agreeing to disagree with a Crazy person . ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-01-2008 at 6:06pm
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Ha, thanks Joe.
Bruce, Ive tried that trick and it didnt help much. It took a full tank of gas and 4 big bodies in the backseat to hit an unimpressive 48mph.  ------------- |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: April-01-2008 at 6:11pm
I've got the complete top end to swap out, heads, intake, and exhaust that will get you more than what you currently have. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-01-2008 at 6:22pm
No thanks Chris. Im not convinced those parts are better than what Ive got- and even if they were, I dont think theyre 50hp better. Id need all that and more to break 50mph unless I can get my hull out of the water. Besides, I already promised myself I wouldnt spend any money on engine upgrades until next year.  ------------- |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: April-01-2008 at 7:07pm
Are you sure you will be strong enough to withstand the craving for upgrading for a whole year Tim...???? 
------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-01-2008 at 7:11pm
No, Im definitely not- Ive lost that bet in the past! Im just hoping to cover myself in enough fiberglass and foam to keep my mind from wandering to engine upgrades. ------------- |
Posted By: RainDog
Date Posted: April-02-2008 at 12:12am
HA-AH! I get it. April Fools, right Tim? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1868&sort=&pagenum=1 - 62 Classic http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5242&sort=&pagenum=1 - 2002 Super Air |
Posted By: reidp
Date Posted: April-02-2008 at 10:56pm
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Tim, just drop that boat at off my house for a week, and after a little test and tune, we'll get her to where we think it ought to be!! ------------- ReidP /diaries/details.asp?ID=231&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 1973 Mustang |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-03-2008 at 7:14pm
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Steve, I meant every word of what I said- and I stuck to it for almost 48 hours!
Reid, Ill pack the truck after work. See you in a few days! ------------- |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: April-04-2008 at 12:36pm
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Hi Kapla, you contacted me about a V8 engine you were looking for a friend's boat on Mercadolibre.
My 80' Ski Nautique belonged to Matias Blanco. It seems there are 2 CCfans from Argentina now! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-04-2008 at 2:11pm
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Mira que chico es el mundo!!!! bueno nos estaremos en contacto. Con lo del motor estan mas interesados con el tema de los escapes ya que consiguieron un volvo 290 casi completo pero sin los escapes. Estan viendo que casco comprar si el de la master prostar 190 vieja o el de la nuaitque q fabrican en cordoba.
Qua la usas para wake o ski? Saludos ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: reidp
Date Posted: April-04-2008 at 2:43pm
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I feel like a dog here. All I understood was; blah, blah, blah MOTOR, blah, blah, blah VOLVO 290, blah, blah, blah, masterblah problah 190blah, blah, blah, blah SKI.
I guess it's time to go back to school. I love CorrectoCraftoFano. ------------- ReidP /diaries/details.asp?ID=231&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 1973 Mustang |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-04-2008 at 7:03pm
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Sorry about that, reidp, Luchog happens to be a countryman so I reply him in spanish. I know him from another website (local ebay) so it was funny to find him here.
Next time I'll reply in english. ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: April-04-2008 at 11:10pm
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Small world huh? I talk to Luciano on here and by e-mail all the time and he speaks (types?) great english. Better than some guys on here.
john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: April-05-2008 at 12:04am
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Kapla, my emails is Luchog01@hotmail.com, you can contact me there if you're interested in the exhaust manifolds. I need to either sell them or get a GM V8 without them since I'm refitting another boat and want to V8 it.
As for the boat I believe the Victoria throws a better wake than the old Prostars, now against a Skywake (newer Prostar 195) it's a question of taste on wake shapes. John, it was really funny to find Kapla in here since he's one of the few Nautiques owners in Argentina, in fact, we used his boat on a local tournament some years ago and I even got to get on board as "human ballast". I think that was my first time on a Nautique, then a friend bought a 95' SN and it was the dream boat, now you know I have my 80'. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: reidp
Date Posted: April-05-2008 at 2:23pm
No problem at all Kapla, as I was just joking, and exposing my ignorance. I'm one of a handful of Americans who feel somewhat deficient in only speaking one language. I studied Spanish in school and was schooled in French by a French-Canadian girlfriend, but never paid enough attention to either to learn it well. ------------- ReidP /diaries/details.asp?ID=231&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 1973 Mustang |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: April-05-2008 at 5:38pm
school and was schooled in French by a French-Canadian girlfrie Reid, I don't know if that really qualifies as French. Celine Dion, to me speaks like she's from Biddeford. ------------- |
Posted By: reidp
Date Posted: April-06-2008 at 8:22pm
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Bruce, I know what you mean. But since I was only 25 at the time, and since she spoke very little English, it was quite an experience. ------------- ReidP /diaries/details.asp?ID=231&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 1973 Mustang |
Posted By: p/allen
Date Posted: April-06-2008 at 11:45pm
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Tim Im with you . Leave that great little rare Skier alone and go ahead and grind on that 90. You can always find another one of those . ------------- Pat http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w146/72ccfan/100_5977-1.jpg - My 72 Skier Rock River Dixon,ILL. |
Posted By: p/allen
Date Posted: April-06-2008 at 11:51pm
Tim dont do it . I think what Reid is realy saying is that he will tear your engine out and put it in his boat.{where he thinks it ought to be }. Then he will replace it with an imposter. I think the {we} part doesnt include you . ------------- Pat http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w146/72ccfan/100_5977-1.jpg - My 72 Skier Rock River Dixon,ILL. |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-07-2008 at 3:59pm
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Lucho, thats ok, and in whick boat will you rrefit the v8 engine?
Regarding the manifolds I`m not the one who needs them so ill give my friends you email so they can deal with you directly. Sebastian ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-07-2008 at 4:32pm
Pat, you are undoubtedly correct. Thanks for alerting me to Reid's evil plan! No worries, as I have no plans to molest either Skier as of now. If, by chance, I remove too much material from the rear of my '90, resulting in an outrageous top end and a ruined ski wake, I have a plan. Theres no reason why a hydrogate-esque retractable lip couldnt be added to the transom to have the best of both worlds. By the way, the plan now is to bring the green Skier home this weekend... pics to follow! ------------- |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: April-07-2008 at 10:26pm
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Kapla, I'm refitting a Claude 660 with a little cabin to use as work boat for my restaurant at the Charigue island here in Rosario. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-15-2008 at 5:38pm
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Lucho
and whats wrong with the 351m you had for sale in MC? you will need custom exhaust manifolds for it? your looking for a gm engine? Sebastian ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: April-15-2008 at 7:03pm
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Kapla, that engine is already sold. It belonged to a friend of mine, Marcelo Angulo, perhaps you know him.
I want a GM 350, for wich I already have the manifolds, or a complete Ford 351W for the 660. I feel the 351M would be a great engine for a bigger boat since it's a low rev engine and has plenty of torque, but it would need a 16'' prop below the hull of the Claude 660 to make it plane or ski. Also, I had to make custom manifolds, get a new raw water pump and a marine carb and fuel pump. By the way, since in our country we dont feel the need to use marine specific parts and most certainly nobody checks this, I think that marine stuff may not be that big of a deal with inline 6s, as most inboard in Argentina use, as it is with V8s since there's much more fuel running through the system, and few more sparks. Anyway, marine parts cost only a few bucks more and I feel much better not ever finding any fuel split on the doghouse. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-18-2008 at 8:48pm
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Lucho yes I know Marcelo as we used to ride in the same category open 2... Old days ja....
kinda I miss all the thrill of going on tours to rosario, cordoba party !!! I got settled, have 1 kid and another in the way. Regarding engine Vito was offering a complete used 351 from the ski federation for the mere 6K (bitter). Im almost sure you know as the market is small. Regarding the marine parts you are repling for my question in the fuel pump? for that I ordered one from discount marine nd see if Im lucky here to get it out from the postal office. ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-25-2008 at 7:58pm
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Lucho heres an engine you could be interested in. I saw it on deremate.com.ar under this article Publicacin #20050000. looks nice.
Sebastian ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-27-2008 at 11:32am
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you guys near the Orinoco? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: April-27-2008 at 12:25pm
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Eric, no, the Orinoco flows up north on South America, over Venezuela and Brasil, our main river here is the Paran, wich was.
Kapla, thanks for the data, you know the guy selling it? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-28-2008 at 2:02pm
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Lucho
no I have no idea, of the guy selling the engine. I saw it browsing the web. sebastian ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: June-30-2008 at 12:54am
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I guess getting back to the OP's question,
the real reason ford quit making marine engines is a little more up in the air than that the 351 was replaced by the OHC 4.6, and 5.4, and 6.8 v10 modular motors. PCM tried to get these motors, including a lightning based roots SC 5.4l motor, marinized, but my guess is that the $$ to make these new tech motors marinized, was not cost effective when GM still had pushrod motors being made, and I bet GM gave PCM a deal to use the 350's when they went to the 5.3l v8. There were a few of the mod motors powering nautiques and other PCM powered inboards, but these were all experimental. I have seen pics on the net of PCM using the supercharged 360hp lighting 5.4 to power a SN. It is too bad, and for this reason, I won't buy a nautique newer than 02 or 03 with the gm based motors. I have had too much bad luck with gm 305 and 350's in cars/ trucks to ever want one in a boat. JM2 pennies ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |