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Carter YH Carbs?

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    Posted: November-24-2008 at 5:25pm
Hi all!

I'm looking for rebuilt Carter Sidedraft Carbs for my 312 Interceptor. Anyone know of a source for them? I believe they are YH's.

Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote critter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-24-2008 at 6:13pm
You try here
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-24-2008 at 8:35pm
Adam,
You want complete carbs or just the rebuild kits? Kits are available. I just did a search and came up with thousands of hits on "Carter YH". Here's a source for kits. yh rebuild kit

If you do rebuild, don't set the float levels by the specs that come in the rebuild instructions. That spec is for level carbs!! Do you have the Interceptor 312 manual? There are some float level specs in it for the forward and aft carbs. They are a starting point.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63CCSN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-24-2008 at 8:52pm
I'd like to find complete -- rebuilt carbs that I could just install. Thanks for the link to the kits -- if I can't find rebuilt carbs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-24-2008 at 9:10pm
Adam,
First, why do you feel you have carb problems? describe whats going on.

If you luck out finding the carbs, I don't know if the seller will be able to set the float levels correctly. If rebuilding is something you don't feel you can handle, maybe you should look for someone to do it for you. You'll need him anyway for the floats.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63CCSN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2008 at 10:44am
8122pbrainard -

I'm on the last stage of an engine rebuild. I'm terrible with carbs and had hoped to find a rebuilt set -- rather than by a rebuild kit. I'm not the right man for that job


Any thoughts?!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2008 at 11:14am
Adam,
Dig into the carbs!! You telling me you are doing the engines tells me you do have mechanical skills. I too have done engines and I too was always afraid of carbs but then one day I had to rebuild a up draft. That taught me they really aren't that complicated. The YH's aren't like a 4 bbl. with lots more parts!

So, since you're at the last stages of the rebuild, I now know you haven't tried to run the engine yet. Maybe you'll be surprised and it will run fine!!

The biggest problem with the YH's is the aft carb would puke gas out the arrester when the float needle sticks open. This was the downfall of the side drafts.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2008 at 11:26am
We are not talking about lots of parts ether.
The kit comes with probably three different set of gaskets. You only use some of them depending on the exact model configuration of the YH.



You can do it!

BTW, you never mentioned if you have the Interceptor Y block manual. It has a real nice section on the carbs in it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2008 at 1:17pm
Pete, is the Y block manual different than the one in the reference section?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2008 at 2:00pm
Bruce,
Yup, the one in the ref. section with the yellow front cover, covers the Y blocks as well as inline 6's and the 352/390 too. Didn't you or Reid scan and donate it to the site? I remember Reid had offered extra copies to anyone and of course that was a couple weeks after I ordered mine!!!

Adam,
Take a look at it if you don't have it. The YH carbs starts on page 27 of the manual which is page 31 of the PDF file. It covers the operation of the carb.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-25-2008 at 2:05pm
Pete, Reid gave it to me and I scanned it and sent it to the site. He must have had some sort of preminition because after giving it to me we've ended up with 2 Interceptors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 stang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2008 at 10:49am
If you already have the carbs, my guess is it would be cheaper to send them to the nearest CC dealer for a rebuild than buy a rebuilt set unless the seller is doing it on an exchange basis. when I was at Midwest last they were working on an old wood Atom I believe with side drafts, i'm sure they could help out if you dont want to tackle it.

the thing ive learned about carbs over 20 years of playing with them is that they are not complicated devices. They meter air and fuel. If you follow the instructions and understand how they tune, its just a matter of time and adjustments made till they come around. I used to think Rochesters were junk for years, I finally read the manual and tuning guide to understand them and I like them better than a holley now. The only down draft that kicked my butt had a defective plug in a factory machining passage. That kind of thing is very rare and much easier to diagnose with the internet and all the help around.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2008 at 10:56am
Originally posted by 75 stang 75 stang wrote:

my guess is it would be cheaper to send them to the nearest CC dealer for a rebuild than buy a rebuilt set.

Im not so sure about that- I know that I sure wouldnt necessarily be looking to a CC dealer to rebuild my vintage carburetor! If its not a job you want to tackle yourself, stick with a good rebuilder with good references (dealer or otherwise), as I suspect most dealer service depts lack a tech who has ever had one of these carbs apart.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2008 at 11:09am
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Originally posted by 75 stang 75 stang wrote:

my guess is it would be cheaper to send them to the nearest CC dealer for a rebuild than buy a rebuilt set.

Im not so sure about that- I know that I sure wouldnt necessarily be looking to a CC dealer to rebuild my vintage carburetor! If its not a job you want to tackle yourself, stick with a good rebuilder with good references (dealer or otherwise), as I suspect most dealer service depts lack a tech who has ever had one of these carbs apart.


I have to argee that a dealer would not be my first choice ether. I too will have to say that it would be unusual to find a mechanic at one who has ever had one apart - maybe never even seen a YH!!! Getting a reference from a dealer for a carb rebuilder isn't a bad idea if all else fails. If MWCC has problems with their YH's, they maybe sending them out too!

I did have to go to Watercraft once for my 312 T stats. I couldn't find a source and was over there one day and asked. They said they could get them and they did. I'm sure I paid dearly for them but it wasn't a major expence. I never did find out where they got them!! They were NOS and came in the Eaton box!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 64X55 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2008 at 11:14am
Pete and/or Riley -- Interesting thread. So, where is the YH carb info. that you guys were discussing? Sounds like you (Riley) mentioned it should be somewhere on the web site here?

My 312 runs, but so does one of the 2 carbs (literally, it "runs" i.e. leaks onto the intake as described above).

This sounds like info. I'm also gonna need too in the future to eliminate that. Appreciate any links to what Pete described above as the "real nice section on the carbs" in the Interceptor Y Block manual.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2008 at 11:22am
Craig, You've never mentioned the problem with your carbs! Does the gas run out the arrestor constantly or only when you shut down the engine? It makes a difference. I just learned something the other day from Billy (Boatdr) about the inner workings of the YH. Tell me when the gas comes out and I'll fill you in.

The manual is in the ref. section under "manuals". It is the yellow covered Inteceptor. You haven't got one yet?? I thought you were going to get one from marineengine.com a couple years ago!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 64X55 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2008 at 12:49pm
Thanks Pete. I'll check for the manual there. Hmmm? Not sure? I noticed it once after I ran it briefly (which has only been like 2 or 3 times - summer before last). My plan was to hook the battery up and turn it over with the coil wire unplugged sometime here soon because it's winterized now but I didn't start it all this past summer. I may have to wait until spring to find out for sure, but I'm keeping notes and I "will" get to it. I noticed it at the rear one but I've heard it said, and it makes sense, that either one, if leaking, will put gas there because of the engine angle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2008 at 1:25pm
Ok, here's what I learned about the YH's. The accelerator pumps in them are mechanically AND vacuum operated. When you mash down on the throttle, the acelerator pump is actuated mechanically but also, under other conditions (lighter throttle advance) the vacuum drops it squirts the gas too (smaller amount than mechanical activation). So, when you shut down the engine, vacuum is lost and it squirts gas. If shut down multiple times within a short period of time, is why you have gas out the aft carb. I've never had a issue with gas out the aft carb so your's may need a rebuild. There's a check valve in the accelerator circuit that I suspect isn't doing it's job. BTW, this is the reason some owners of 312's (and Gray 327's) with the side drafts went to down drafts. They didn't want to or didn't know how to fix the problem - rebuid kit. Of course they also felt they would get more out of the engine with the down drafts!!

If gas runs out during running, then it's a bad float level or stuck float needle.

More HP Paul?

Of course this picture is the before the non USCG approved arrestors!!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 64X55 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2008 at 2:08pm
I wonder if they did (do) get much more out of a downdraft. Remember we talked about just how many cfm each single barrel Carter side draft was. Somewhere, to my surprise (I think you talked to someone) we discovered that they were (with the two of them together) pretty decent cfm (never really got a final exact number as I recall). But, the 312 info., not as much applicable to the marine applications, indicates that you could get over 300hp out of the 312's with a Paxton Supercharger, but that was more for Ford's cars and trucks of the era. The Marine Interceptor 312 seems to consistently say 215 hp. I wonder how much (if any) more horses can be gained with a 4 barrel on the 312. Not that I'm planning on that. I know, as we've discussed, the 2 single barrel Carters keep the hatch height low and (at least with the Dunphy X-55's) to add a 4 barrel necessitates some raised scoop on the box or a higher box. Just wonder about the potential increased hp. Kind of figure it might do a little, wouldn't it (somewhere between the 215hp (with 2 single barrels) and 300hp+ with the Paxton)?

Ooo! Pete; did you add that pic after you posted? I didn't see it the first time I read your last reply. Nice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 stang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2008 at 2:15pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Originally posted by 75 stang 75 stang wrote:

my guess is it would be cheaper to send them to the nearest CC dealer for a rebuild than buy a rebuilt set.

Im not so sure about that- I know that I sure wouldnt necessarily be looking to a CC dealer to rebuild my vintage carburetor! If its not a job you want to tackle yourself, stick with a good rebuilder with good references (dealer or otherwise), as I suspect most dealer service depts lack a tech who has ever had one of these carbs apart.


I have to argee that a dealer would not be my first choice ether. I too will have to say that it would be unusual to find a mechanic at one who has ever had one apart - maybe never even seen a YH!!! Getting a reference from a dealer for a carb rebuilder isn't a bad idea if all else fails. If MWCC has problems with their YH's, they maybe sending them out too!



The only reason I mentioned Midwest was that Bruce took me outback to a Private building on the site owned by a fellow named Ken that was somehow involved there. I was looking at the Mustang 17 in his shop and noticed the wood boat being rebuilt next to it with the side drafts. Bruce mentioned their mechanic was reworking the engine and carbs for Kens boat. while I agree that most wrenches have not seen one of these in years, Im pretty sure someone there has recently.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 64X55 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2008 at 2:22pm
Maybe I could fit one under my current "big and ugly" hatch!
(these were pics from back in June '06. Looks a lot different now).


Na, I'm just kidding anyway, but it looks like even that hatch was still low. And it's getting re-done anyhow...
Hey Phatsat67, there's your windshield again!

Wonder how close "under the box these were?
I think they're actually lower than even the valve covers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2008 at 2:47pm
Pete, What's yours red line at? The Ford auto web sites I've checked out say 4600 rpm.
Also, what does your idle at and what do you set the timing at? The manual says 10 BTDC at 2600 rpm. Car web site says 6 BTDC at 450 rpm. Where's the timing mark?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2008 at 3:17pm
Bruce,
The 6's and 8's show the same in my manual. My 312 red lines right about where the book shows which is 4200 - 4300.

Go according the marine specs on the timing. The marine version may be cammed for more torque (many marines were) and that may be the difference in the timing spec.

It's been so long since I did a tune up (you know the 28 year old points that are still going strong!!!) that I had a hard time remembering about the timing!! The marks are on the flywheel on the 312. There is a "inspection" cover on the top of the bellhousing that needs to be removed. Look for one on your 6.

Edit: I forgot your flywheel forward. Did you paint over the mark on the flywheel? There should be a grove cut in it someplace.

Edit again: I just looked at you picture of the painted engine. Looks like there's a pointer sticking out of the shroud around the flywheel right about on the top. Is it?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2008 at 7:51pm
Originally posted by 75 stang 75 stang wrote:

The only reason I mentioned Midwest was that Bruce took me outback to a Private building on the site owned by a fellow named Ken that was somehow involved there. I was looking at the Mustang 17 in his shop and noticed the wood boat being rebuilt next to it with the side drafts. Bruce mentioned their mechanic was reworking the engine and carbs for Kens boat. while I agree that most wrenches have not seen one of these in years, Im pretty sure someone there has recently.

I suspect that the Ken in question is Ken Meloon. I believe he has a mid 70's Stang and a wooden CC thats being restored.

MWCC would be one of the few dealers that I would go to with questions about the older boats- not all dealers are that well versed on the vintage CC's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 64X55 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2008 at 9:57pm
Here's sort of an answer to my own question about a four barrel on the 312.

This link is to a site discussing a double four barrel on a 312, but the first sentence in the short article talks about adding a 4 bbl to a 312 and getting 235hp.
http://www.ctci.org/membership/Gilsgarage/19568VOption.htm

Intersting.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-27-2008 at 9:54am
Thanks Craig. Yes it is interesting but it won't fit under the dog house!! I'm going to see if I can find the CFM on the YH again!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-27-2008 at 10:30am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Bruce,
The 6's and 8's show the same in my manual. My 312 red lines right about where the book shows which is 4200 - 4300.

Go according the marine specs on the timing. The marine version may be cammed for more torque (many marines were) and that may be the difference in the timing spec.

It's been so long since I did a tune up (you know the 28 year old points that are still going strong!!!) that I had a hard time remembering about the timing!! The marks are on the flywheel on the 312. There is a "inspection" cover on the top of the bellhousing that needs to be removed. Look for one on your 6.

Edit: I forgot your flywheel forward. Did you paint over the mark on the flywheel? There should be a grove cut in it someplace.

Edit again: I just looked at you picture of the painted engine. Looks like there's a pointer sticking out of the shroud around the flywheel right about on the top. Is it?


Pete, I'll have to check out the 6 later this weekend. I'm not too concerned right now about that one because PO said the engine ran good and the points, even the gap look fine.

The 312 on the other hand has been rebuilt and only run for a few minutes. It has to be timed. I don't want to do the initial timing at 2600 rpm. There is an inspection plate on the bell housing, but it looks like the coil was put in a poor place.


I haven't found any rpm specs in that manual.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-27-2008 at 10:44am
Bruce,
The RPM's aren't in the spec listings but rater in the HP/RPM graphs.

Yes,the coil does need to be removed and bolted temporailly off to the side.

I forgot, the idle! I seem to remember the 312 is about 500 but also, the old SW tachs aren't the greatest!! Don't know how accurate they are at the bottom end and at WOT there's lots of needle bounce.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-27-2008 at 10:55am
I don't seem to have that page. What's the red line on the 6? An auto site said 4400, but that seems high.

So it sounds like my coil is in a ok place, where it's supposed to be?

We don't have a tach. SW makes a nice repro that will match the gauges that I'm planning on buying. I'll use a tach and dwell when I set the initial timing. Manual says idle should be 700 rpm. I suppose if I set at 6 BTDC at 700 I ought to be close enough. I then think I will use the break in schedule in the later Interceptor manual which is the babying method. Does that sound right to you?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-27-2008 at 12:29pm
Bruce,
The HP/RPM graph tops out right around 4200 to 4300 on both the 6 and the 312.

Interesting that the smaller displacement Y blocks show higher red lines (the less the cubes, the higher the red line). Probably shorter strokes allowing safer top ends without lots of balancing of the rotating assembly.

The coil is in it's proper place using the same mounting bolts as the cover.

I think the SW gauges would have been the "Big Logo" series in the Classic. Plenty old ones and repros around.

If the babying method of breaking in the engine includes short bursts of high RPM's then yes but I'd also like to hear from other members on the subject.


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