1st post and its an important one! Help me find...

Pete,   There probably is a few places left. One would just have to start searching. A good place to start would be looking for high-end cabinet builders.
I would not recommend a do-it-yourself scarf joint. I would also advise against any stain between the joint.


AT

Not saying need, saying capability.

AT

Outfit that sells scarfed 4 x 16' right up the road from me

Boulter Marine Plywood

75 Tique wrote: Outfit that sells scarfed 4 x 16' right up the road from me Boulter Marine Plywood

Larry,
Thanks, The next time you're going down the road, ask them about bright finishing their scarfed ply. I went to the link and saw the picture of their scarf. Sorry but from what I saw, the glue used to make the scarf is very evident on both sides of the scarf and this will prevent the wood from taking a stain. That's the big problem!!

8122pbrainard wrote: 75 Tique wrote: Outfit that sells scarfed 4 x 16' right up the road from me Boulter Marine Plywood Larry, Thanks, The next time you're going down the road, ask them about bright finishing their scarfed ply. I went to the link and saw the picture of their scarf. Sorry but from what I saw, the glue used to make the scarf is very evident on both sides of the scarf and this will prevent the wood from taking a stain. That's the big problem!!

I always wondered about that Pete, and especially after you taked about doing the finishing prior to doing the scarfing. I wonder if the sloppy glue job could be sanded down to take a bright finish. In teh many year ongoing thinking about building a boat, is scarf and bright or scarf and paint or butt and bright (bright is my preference although painted hull and bright deck is an option too. Another factor....transporting a 16 foor long piece of wood and then, as mentioned above, handling it could be a challenge too.

DrCC wrote: Pete,   High-End maybe the words you missed. These are the shops that do more than just cabinets. Spiral Staircases, Elaborate Doorways, Display Cases etc...   Get the idea?   Things that would be found in multi-million dollar homes. So saying there is no "need" is rather silly.

Al,
I've been this route as well. I didn't miss "high end"! We have two members in our chapter that I have discussed the scarf issue with. One owns a very "high end" architectural millwork shop doing work in multi million dollar homes in our Lake Geneva area. He also is big time into boat restoration Lange custom woodworking The second is all architectural millwork mostly large commercial jobs like a bank or exec offices. Both agree the bright finished scarf with todays ply is a problem and that the stain and seal before cutting the scarf is the only way.

Both also commented that a scarf isn't needed in ether the cabinet or architectural millwork areas. It's pretty much restricted to the ply marine hull area.

DrCC wrote: I also looked at Boulter's scarf. Looks good. The remaining glue shouldn't be a problem for a talented wood person.

It may look good to you maybe but I'd worry? Get some stain on it and see what happens!

DrCC wrote: I would much rather use scarfed ply, than to have an ugly visible butt block on the interior.   Wouldn't you?

Absolutely! Plus with a butt block you will always have a problem with the outside seam.

DrCC wrote: Quoting your above statement.    "BTW, have you ever scarfed? I have!!! And bright finished!!! What's that all about?   Need a Medal? Actually I have not scarfed plywood. We subbed out scarfing to professionals that did that every day and had the equipment to do it right.   And yes I have bright finished scarfed ply.   Also I have scarf joined more keels than I care to count AT

Al,
Sorry this wasn't meant to be insulting in any way but merely to stress the complexity of scarfing ply for a bright finish. You didn't seem to understand that. However, now you stating you subbed out your scarf work to professionals explains a lot.

I wish the ply scarf was as easy as doing a keel that's hidden anyway!! Plenty of filled epoxy goes a long way!!

Here's a older close up picture of one of the scarfs on my X55.



This picture was taken after a refinish, new spray rails and fresh bottom paint. Not a close up but at any distance past a couple feet, the scarf isn't even noticeable. You won't get this with a butt block butt joint.

Nate.
A scarf joint is a long bevel that's cut on end of two pieces of wood. Usually in a 8 to 10 ratio of wood thickness to the length of the bevel. Depending on the adhesive and if the bevels are cut accurately, the joint is stronger than the wood itself.

You say you don't mind a restoration project but I need to ask about your woodworking skill level. Are you sure you want a wood boat? A scarf is a pretty basic joint.

compact_skier_2B wrote: Pete, I don't mind a project...does knowing the term scarf determine the quality of ones ability to fabricate? No I have never done a scarf but by the sounds of the back and forth in this thread I would say you are the only one who has performed a scarf and admitted yourself that it is a very difficult process to perform correctly...now you call it a basic joint?? I could read all the forums in the world and not be any better at wood/mechanical work...the way I learn is to do. Not to say I don't appreciate all the excellent information I have been given thus far on the forum, I just feel you may be a little quick to judge based on my question about a basic term. Keep the help, info, and opinions coming! Nate

Nate,
Sorry. My wording was not very good. I was trying to determine your woodworking skill level and it came across sounding insulting. That's wasn't the intent.

Yes, you are absolutely correct that doing is learning!

A scarf is one of the basic joints although it's very old and not used very much anymore and consequently forgotten. The only two places it's still used is in boat building/repair and lengthening plywood. As you've read, the basic ply scarf isn't a big challenge for a woodworker until that ply becomes bright finished.

DrCC wrote: Wow!    The only point I was focusing on, the fact that you stated at 12:17pm    " I don't feel there is anyone out there anymore scarfing ply. It's now a do it yourself process, and not easy!!!" Larry found a place in only a matter of a few hours! Now you say "isn't a big challenge" As for stain, one must know how to make wood accept stain. As for your other comment. One must also know when to out-source a process to produce the highest quality end result. And "Filler in a keel?"   Surely you jest!

Al,
It has become quite obvious that you are way beyond my level of talent. Thanks for your input.

8122pbrainard wrote: compact_skier_2B wrote: Pete, I don't mind a project...does knowing the term scarf determine the quality of ones ability to fabricate? No I have never done a scarf but by the sounds of the back and forth in this thread I would say you are the only one who has performed a scarf and admitted yourself that it is a very difficult process to perform correctly...now you call it a basic joint?? I could read all the forums in the world and not be any better at wood/mechanical work...the way I learn is to do. Not to say I don't appreciate all the excellent information I have been given thus far on the forum, I just feel you may be a little quick to judge based on my question about a basic term. Keep the help, info, and opinions coming! Nate Nate, Sorry. My wording was not very good. I was trying to determine your woodworking skill level and it came across sounding insulting. That's wasn't the intent. Yes, you are absolutely correct that doing is learning! A scarf is one of the basic joints although it's very old and not used very much anymore and consequently forgotten. The only two places it's still used is in boat building/repair and lengthening plywood. As you've read, the basic ply scarf isn't a big challenge for a woodworker until that ply becomes bright finished.

Thanks Pete! Its not that I am even claiming to be a good wood worker I was more referencing someone who may be very good at such talents but not completely versed in the full technical lingo (even though in most cases the two would go hand in hand).

I will continue my search for a correct craft be it wood or glass.

Nate,
Something may be wrong with your link. It takes me to a ebay page that states the item has been removed.

When posting a link, use the "post reply" and not the "quick reply". Click on the world icon at the top and the first window that comes up is where you want to describe the link. Click ok and you'll get another window. This is where you want to paste the copied address. Then click ok again.

Thanks for posting the link Pete...I want that little baby. I noticed the hull and I did email him about it asking what the situation was and if he could take more detailed pics below the water line.

I'll keep you posted.

Nate